Established podcasters are earning millions of dollars in sponsorships every year. My great friend and guest, John Lee Dumas, is one of them. But, with almost 4,000 episodes of Entrepreneurs on Fire under his belt, would he even recommend podcasting to grow a business in 2023?
Listen in on today's episode because JLD delivers a reality check like no other. His show has amassed over 140 million downloads, but he's the first to point out that new podcasters are facing an uphill battle. That said, the advice JLD shares in this chat will help you stand out and succeed in any crowded niche!
We cover a lot of ground in this incredible conversation. JLD gives us a special inside look at his four-and-a-half-hour workweek and the strategies that help him maintain his free time. We also discuss everything from wealth management and investing to preparing for the worst-case scenario.
For more JLD, check out episode 479 to get his step-by-step guide to uncommon success. And make sure to tune in to our recent chat on Entrepreneurs on Fire — with SPI CEO Matt Gartland — about the importance of community building for online business. Enjoy!
John Lee Dumas
John Lee Dumas is the host of Entrepreneurs on Fire, an award-winning podcast where he interviews Entrepreneurs who are truly ON FIRE 7 days a week. Over the past 10 years, JLD has interviewed over 3800 Entrepreneurs to the tune of over 140 million total listens. Entrepreneurs on Fire generates over 3 million listens a month, seven-figures of annual revenue, and JLD is just getting started.
- Find out more at EOFire.com
- The workflow behind JLD's nearly four thousand podcast episodes
- Wealth management, investing in startups, and life in Puerto Rico
- Time management and creating a four-and-a-half-hour workweek
- How to get relatable advice at any stage in the entrepreneurial journey
- Why it might not be too late to start a podcast in 2023
- The number one thing to focus on as a new podcaster
- How JLD has prepared his home for the worst-case scenario
- Join JLD, SPI CEO Matt Gartland, and me for an incredible chat about community building on Entrepreneurs on Fire
- Subscribe to Unstuck—my weekly newsletter on what's working in business right now, delivered free, straight to your inbox
- Connect with Pat on Twitter and Instagram
SPI 687: What's Going on with John Lee Dumas?
John Lee Dumas: That occasional time when I get that very unique and special podcast host, it's magic. The questions are new and they're fresh, and those are amazing episodes. And those I do share with my audience because they're new, they're different, they're fun.
So, listen, if you are willing to create a podcast that is the number one solution to a real problem in this world, your podcast will win. If you're not able to do that, you are likely going to just be swallowed up by the mass of podcast humanity that is the world right now.
Pat Flynn: Wow. It's been a long time coming. A long time coming. What am I talking about? I'm talking about our good friend John Lee Dumas, aka JLD, from Entrepreneurs on Fire, coming back on the Smart Passive Income Podcast. He's somebody who I saw start from the ground up. I was actually in fact, his first guest on Entrepreneurs On Fire with now thousands of interviews, which is awesome.
And I wanted to bring him back on just to get a life update and a business update, and ask about Kate and other fun announcements that have been happening in his life that I cannot wait to share with you here in this episode. Many of you know JLD from the back catalog and might enjoy this update very, very much, and there's a lot of business advice in here as well.
We do talk about everything from Puerto Rico, which is where he's been living to automation and how he does what he does still with his team, and stocks and investments and all kinds of things. So sit back, relax. This is session 687 with John Lee Dumas. He's back and he's great, and here he is.
Announcer: You're listening to the Smart Passive Income Podcast, a proud member of the Entrepreneur Podcast Network, a show that's all about working hard now, so you can sit back and reap the benefits later. And now your host, all of the socks he wears either have an L or an R on them. Pat Flynn.
Pat Flynn: JLD, welcome back to SPI, man. It's been way too long.
John Lee Dumas: Man, being in the same time space continuum as Pat Flynn, you know, whether it be virtual or in person, life is good.
Pat Flynn: It has been so long. You used to be a recurring guest here on the show for quite a while, and then you didn't fall off the face of the earth like I knew you were up to some stuff and big things, in fact, down there in Puerto Rico and a lot of big business moves and stuff.
But before we get to all those things that you've done, just, how are you, how is life? What's you been up to?
John Lee Dumas: Life is good. I mean, I'll tell you, when I moved to San Diego and I brought my business there back in like 2013, I was like, this is Mecca. Like, I, I may never leave. Like this is the entrepreneurial haven and I still feel a lot of those things about San Diego.
I love that place, but you know, what have it been up to? Well, I, I moved to Puerto Rico in 2016. I've been here now for seven years, which is mind blowing. I say to everybody who asks that I will never leave. And we might get to some of those reasons in a little bit here, but you know, Kate and I have our, our dream home here in Puerto Rico.
We got married back in April, which was awesome. We were really fired from about that. And life is good, man. We're just hanging out, doing our thing.
Pat Flynn: I'm so happy for you. The podcast, still running. Daily or, or weekly. Like how many episodes are you at now with EO Fire?
John Lee Dumas: So Entrepreneurs on Fire is now at at 3,763 episodes.
And you are that episode, by the way, we just recorded it right before we got on here. So you are episode 3763. So be very proud of that cuz your episode one. And then like, yes, a hundred and then like 500, and then like 3,763.
Pat Flynn: What in your process has been optimized across those 3000 plus episodes? How have you now built this machine?
What have you learned recently that is given you even more time back after that many episodes, you've, you've gotta have the process nailed down.
John Lee Dumas: It's so nailed down. Like people all the time they say, John, I know you do a daily podcast, like, you must be so busy, but can I like, and they ask for like, something this or that.
I'm like, I literally and truly work four and a half hours every week on Entrepreneurs on Fire. It's from 12:00 PM to 4:30 PM every Thursday. I do seven back-to-back interviews, and I don't do anything for Entrepreneurs on Fire until the next Thursday. My team does everything else that's running, you know.
I get in the emails and I, you know, respond to emails. I'm doing things on social media. I'm not like not doing anything. But when it comes to the podcast, Entrepreneurs on Fire, we are so dialed in that for it's every 40 minutes back to back from 12:00 PM to 4:30 PM every Thursday. I do everything I need to do to keep Entrepreneurs on Fire rolling.
And by the way, this seven day a week podcast, We now have over 145 million total listens. We just signed our second two year contract with HubSpot. Our first two year sponsorship package with HubSpot just came up for renewal. We just renewed with them. That's a seven figure contract, our second one. So we're still crushing it with the sponsorships and, you know, the Podcasters Paradise and our journals and our book and like those, those are the things that have been taken up most of our time.
I haven't gone off and created, you know, some, you know, just kind of crazy YouTube channel that's caught fire like Mr. Pat Flynn, the PokeTuber himself. But I'm still having some fun down here in Puerto Rico.
Pat Flynn: Four and a half hours a week. That's it. Million dollar contract coming in. Yep. That's just, that's just wild.
That is, that is in incredible. What, let, let me ask you, I'm gonna go outside of business now and talk about just wealth, something that we don't talk often about here on the podcast, but what are you doing for wealth building strategies with that amount of income coming in? And you know, of course, a big benefit of living in Puerto Rico is, you know, less taxes to pay.
So a, an influx of cash to do something with. I've seen stories of a lot of people who buy mansions and you have like 25 Maseratis and Bugattis and other odds in the garage like, what is JLD doing to build wealth? Or are, are you literally like spending it all on stuff? Like, I know you're always gonna be honest and upfront, so I'm just very curious.
John Lee Dumas: Oh, I told you before the interview, there's nothing off limits. There's nothing I like talking more about than everything and being transparent. In fact, the last chapter of my book is called keep the money you make. Because to me, it's like all of us can make as much money as we can possibly imagine. I mean, that's a possibility in this world, but it's the ones that figure out how to keep the money they make, those are the ones that really find true freedom and true fulfillment because they have total control over what they do. So don't get me wrong. I haven't like, you know, been a scrooge and just hoarded all of my money over these past, you know, 10 and a half years. You know, Kate and I came down in 2016.
We bought our dream home, which was a 2 million investment. You know, because of the success in the business, I was able to write a check for that dollar amount, and that's been a fantastic, you know, just sense of security. Not to mention investment. I mean, the house is more than three x in value since I moved down here.
I get, you know, random offers all the time from people that are, you know, knocking on the door, being like, will you sell this house? And I'm like, you know, maybe someday, but not right now. We've actually bought another investment property here in the same community that I live in, so it's something that we are now using for Airbnb when friends come to visit.
When the Flynns come to visit, you know, we can put them right in there. And it's a, it's a great oceanside condo that's got everything that, you know, people need. So we, we've done that as an investment. You know, a lot of people talk about the cars. I'm just not a car person. Like our, our mutual friend Michael O'Neill loves cars.
You know, he's building a Porsche from the ground up right now. Yeah. Porsches not my thing. Like we came to Puerto Rico in 2016 and I actually, the only reason why we even bought a new car is cuz I won Russell Brunson's Dream Car Challenge. So they literally were paying for my car, but I had, but one of the things, I had to buy a new one and, and take a picture of it.
So I bought a 2016 Honda Santa Fe just cause it was a practical car. And I took a picture of it and sent it to like, dude, we can't like, we can't like share this with our audience. You're supposed to buy like an awesome car. You bought a Honda Santa Fe. Like what are you doing? I'm like, this is my dream car.
I'm just being honest. It's a car that has a 10 year warranty. That's awesome. And it's gonna, it's gonna be, allow me to pick up my entire family from the airport cuz it's got, you know, three rows. Let's go. So we have one car in the family, one used golf cart, and I'd say it's more travel and experiences that Kate and I spent our money on.
Like we just got back from a three week trip to Japan. We met up with Ramit Sathi there and traveled around with him and Cass and had a blast. And you know, Ramit's another person who loves, you know, the quote unquote rich life, where, you know, spent a ton of money on material things. We spent it on life and experiences.
So that's something that we've been doing for a really, really long time now, which I love. I've invested in over 23 startups now where I actually am writing big six figure checks to invest in other entrepreneurial ventures. Some of them are gonna fail and go to zero. Some of them are gonna do okay and return my money.
Some of them might two or three x and you know, If I get lucky, one or two of them are going to absolutely explode and is gonna be, you know, crazy returns. You know, that's the hope. I definitely have some investments in crypto. I definitely have investments in NFTs. I've got a lot of gold and a lot of silver, which has been great recently because man, with people freaking out about the banks, gold and silver silver is about to run, which I love.
And then I've got a lot of cash because, listen, you know, I mean, I, I get inflation. I understand that, you know, my cash is actually getting 4.75% return right now because it's in a Fidelity money market fund. So even though it's cash, it's still getting a decent, decent investment, which is, you know, trying, hopefully it's staying up almost with inflation.
So I'm not illusions of grand are there that at some great investment, but it's a sense of security to have some cash. So, you know, when things come up that are huge opportunities, like I look back into 2017, by the way, when Hurricane Maria tore through Puerto Rico and people were just fleeing the island cause that was a very scary time, you know, if I had had more faith and trust in cash, man, I could have gone on the buying spree of a lifetime, you know, back when people were just giving away properties down here in Puerto Rico because, you know, it was, it was a crazy time and to know like where we are now, I mean, man, it's insane to think, but of course hindsight's always 2020.
So that's kind of a long way of saying like, how I kind of look at money, how we spend our money, where my investments are, which is massively diverse. You know, I again, I love not putting all my eggs in one basket, but the reality is like I'm not afraid to take some big risks with investing too, because we've built a life where, you know, we're keeping 96% of every dollar that we make, cuz we only pay 4% tax and we're paying 0% capital gains on our crypto, our stocks, our real estate investments.
So you can really take some big risks there because the money just keeps coming in.
Pat Flynn: What are the downsides of living in Puerto Rico, if any?
John Lee Dumas: There are downsides. There's pros and cons to everything in life. And I'd say for Puerto Rico, if you are a foodie, which Kate and I don't happen to be, I mean we, we, we enjoy food like the average person.
But you know, there have been people that have moved down here that are foodies and they've been really disappointed cuz Puerto Rico is a bad poor food culture. It just doesn't have that food culture that, you know, you would like to think that a place like Italy has, which is amazing, you know, or Japan.
We just got back from that through trip in Japan. Man, they have a great food culture over there like that's awesome. Puerto Rico doesn't have it. Some other negatives is, it's just a different lifestyle, man. You know, I love living in the Caribbean, but everybody moves at a different speed. You're in San Diego, everything's convenience, everything's efficient, everything just works.
None of that happens in Puerto Rico. It's like you're just, you're dealing with a different culture, you're dealing with different mindsets and you just have to accept it. I'd say those are really the two things cuz the Puerto Ricans themselves, they're called Boricuas, amazing individuals.
They're so warm, they're so welcoming, they're just awesome people. I mean, you've been down here, you've seen it like it's just a really cool culture. But you know, when like the Type A entrepreneur comes down here, and I see it every day now cause I've been there for seven years, they've moved down to my community here in Palmist Del Mar, Puerto Rico and they're just like, oh man, this is wrong, a, that's wrong and this is wrong. I'm gonna fix it and change the world. And I'm like, yeah, you do that cuz I said that seven years ago. And then of course like six months goes by and they're like, oh, I can't change anything. And I'm like, just accept it. Just do your thing. Focus on your business. Focus on having a good time, and life is good.
Pat Flynn: Incredible. I, I want to ask you about the startup investments that you make. What's your filter process or how do you determine who to invest with and kind of what are you looking for specifically with that?
John Lee Dumas: It's always about the founder, like, I want the founder just to be all in, to be so passionate about what they're doing to make an impact, to make a change in the world.
And also I love when, when their passion and their interests aligns with mine as well. Like that really helps. Like a couple good examples I could give on this is like we're invested in one company called Lil Bucks. I mean, it's all about bringing essentially this buckwheat brands to America.
Like it's huge in Australia. But it really hasn't made that much of, of a, of a headway here in the States. And I just, I met the founder, she's a female, she's so passionate. She talked about how, you know, buckwheat is like so good for, you know, restoration and restoring like farmland and you know how it helps so many people with all these different, you know, food allergy and all these, I could go on and on.
That's not the point of like what we're talking about now, but like, that was like exciting, so exciting to her, and it was exciting to me. And by the way, like I love growing with these brands too. Like I was one of her first investors and, and her product wasn't great, but that was two years ago. And over the last two years, like it's just gotten better and better and I just love the evolution of seeing this thing grow.
Another great example is I have had this functional medicine doctor for eight years now. Dr. Steven Cabral. He has a great daily podcast all about health and wellness called the Cabral Concepts, which I listen to. He's my functional medicine doctor. Like every six months I'm getting blood tests and getting supplement, you know, plans and all these different things to make sure that my health and wellness is where it needs to be.
And he didn't wanna go and raise a ton of money from Venture Capital Fund. He wanted to have like five or 10 legitimate investors who could also advise. So I wrote him, you know, a big check to get a big portion of equity in the company because I really believe in what he's growing with his company, Equilife and like the, the proxy he's creating and the things that he's doing.
And he is the hardest working person I know. I mean, Pat, I do a daily podcast. But I work four and a half hours a week to do that daily podcast cuz I'm so systemized. This guy wakes up every morning and does a video podcast, just him and the camera and a microphone, and it's long, it's like 20 minutes long.
It's just him, which is so much harder to do. Then interviewing somebody for 20 minutes, having a solo show for 20 minutes. He does that every single day, seven days a week. And he's done it now for over 2,500 episodes. He came to my house back in 2016 here in Puerto Rico. We created this plan for him to do a daily show, cause that was what he wanted to do.
Pat Flynn: I was gonna ask to, was he inspired to do that from you?
John Lee Dumas: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he's executed, he's just executing on it. So that's just two of the 23 companies that I've invested in and, and like, those are the, the people that I look for, the founders that I, you know, I'm looking for the passion that they have.
And then it needs to align with like, what I'm excited about too.
Pat Flynn: Love it. Four and a half hours for your podcast. What are you doing with the other hours of your day? Are you sipping and pina coladas on the beach, or what are you, what are you doing exactly?
John Lee Dumas: I'm pretty lazy, like, and that's actually a thing that a lot of people would find that's surprising about me and, and I've always been that way. And it's just a fact, and it's kind of like the reason why I am successful, because I'm willing to work so hard in the short term because I know the delayed gratification is awaiting me. The reason why I'm willing to grind so hard at certain times in my life, which was like the first four or five years of Entrepreneurs on Fire, and then now, you know, for the past like five or six years, you know, like still work really, really hard, but in short sprints, because I know that's going to allow me to not work really hard the other times in my life, the other days that I'm not actually doing the actual grind that it is to run this business. So I sit by my pool, man. I have this great Adirondack chair. My dog Gus is sitting next to me.
I've got a laptop on my lap. You know, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. Again, I'm, I'm, I'm in my emails. I'm doing social media for Entrepreneurs on Fire. I'm communicating with people. I'm not, not like in the game, but I'm spending a lot of time doing almost nothing like when it comes to business. Something I've actually gotten into recently, which we don't need to go around this, this rabbit hole cuz it's just a rabbit hole.
But I interviewed a guy about six months ago, he was the stock options trader. One of my past careers, I was in corporate finance, so I've always been intrigued by that. And this guy just had a crazy awesome like webinar and course, and I went through all the things and now I've got like a, a monitor next to me by the pool.
Like now I'm thinking about buying PoolsideTrader.com and I've got all the charts up and I'm just gonna now and then glancing, glancing at the, at the charts. And every now and then I make a trade. Sometimes I make money, sometimes I lose money. But I'm trading stock options, baby. Let's go.
Pat Flynn: Oh, bro. So people listening to this are going to go, that is I, this is way beyond my league, right? Like this is stuff that's not relatable anymore. And do you ever, do you ever feel like that? Cuz I know that you serve an audience still. You have your brand and you are, you know, obviously have this giant audience on your podcast and you have people in your courses and, and your community.
But do you ever feel disconnected because of how successful you are? And, and if, if so, how do you get back to ground level to be able to make sure you're still serving your audience?
John Lee Dumas: Yeah, there's a big gap now. I mean, when I first started it was so relatable. I mean, I was grinding, I made $26,000 my first year.
I mean, it was, it was a grind. And then, you know, things started to click and the hard work started to pay off. And by month 13, I netted a hundred thousand dollars. In my business. And since that, and that was the first month I published my monthly income report, which was inspired by you, Pat Flynn. And I always give you credit when people ask me about it and they always ask me about it.
And guess what? We just published our 114th monthly income report, like we have not stopped. I have my lawyer on every month for a legal tip. I have my accountant on for a tax tip. And we have never netted less than a hundred thousand dollars since that month 13. So you know, we're talking millions and millions of dollars.
And now for the last seven years, that's 4% taxed so that money's staying in the pocket. So it's not relatable to most people. You know, I think it's the Gary Vaynerchuk quote of some sort of like, you know, less than 4% of people make $400,000 or less than 5%, whatever the number is, but you know, and I'm like, you know, almost like, 8 x that 10 x that some years, you know, and that's not relatable. Like that's not relatable for something that's just starting off listening to Entrepreneurs on Fire. So that's why I am really focused on my guests coming on and delivering their value on their areas of expertise and pulling that out of them.
You know, I, I realize that, you know, what I've built, you know, 10 and a half years of work isn't relatable to somebody that's on day one right now. Just like it wasn't relatable to me when I looked at people that were crushing it when I first started, and I totally get that. And so I look for different ways to bring value to people and just try to let people know that, hey, there's no difference between you and me except 10 and a half years of work.
So don't say that you know it's unrelatable until you've put 10 and a half years of the work in, and then you'll be able to relate.
Pat Flynn: I love the answer of, well, it's all the people whose stories are relatable that are on the podcast that you bring on, and there's plenty of them to choose from. And I know you do a good job on your website of saying, here's where you start.
If you are this type of entrepreneur, go here and listen to these episodes. You have a plethora of that. How do you, when you promote or you sell something to your audience, balance the idea of selling the information and, and the actual stuff that will be useful to help people. And you've obviously proven to be able to do that.
So many people have credited you for their start. John, how do you balance that versus selling the dream and the idea that you and where you're at almost becomes like a, oh my gosh, it's like, so within reach when, yes, it is within reach, but there's also 10 years of hard work. How, and how do you, how do you mentally balance that?
Because it could, you know, it could skew to very, you know, depending, and, and you've always done it in a very graceful way, but you know, there are some people who could be in your position and who have been in your position, who have sold the dream so hard that it's just kind of like, I wanna take a bath afterwards.
Right, so how, like, how do you do that? And because obviously you're still generating revenue, you're still helping people, and I'm curious about what your secret is or how, how you manage that story.
John Lee Dumas: So what people need to do is listen to Entrepreneurs on Fire with Pat Flynn and Matt Gartland because you guys just got done explaining in, so you know such great terms, how you actually need to approach this.
It's the progress. It's the results from your progress step by step by step. So my best example of, you know, what I'm building that you guys have been building and have built around community is Podcasters Paradise. It's, you know, a podcasting course and community where I teach people how to create, grow, and monetize their podcast.
Now what we do within that community is not me there just trying to give people direct answers from where I am at right now, 10 and a half years into my podcast, 140 plus million listens over 2 million listens every single month, you know, millions of dollars a year in sponsorship revenue and, and other things.
It's me encouraging the people that are in Podcasters Paradise to be the ones to help each other. So I'm always, you know, like giving my piece of thought and guidance and opinion on a question somebody might post in our community. But then I'm also saying, you know, and I'm tagging people. I'm like, Mario, you're two years in. You know, Sarah, you're six months in. Like Tom, like you've just started. I want your answers to this question as well. Cause this is really gonna help the person who asked this question, not just to have my thoughts and my feedback, but yours and yours and yours as well, because you guys are at different parts in your journey and they can really kind of all mash that together and say, well, what's best for me right now based on all this feedback from all these different individuals.
So I really try to foster that sense of we need as, as a community to help each other. And that's what you and Matt did so well on the podcast episode on Entrepreneurs on Fire is you guys talked about that, about how you get the results through the progress of building up the community to also build themselves up.
And that's such a key thing to do at the stage in the game that you Pat since 2008 and me since 2012, you know, need to really be doing, when we're talking to people that are 2023. You know, whether they're 70 or 50 or 16, like 2023 might be year one for them. And that needs to be acknowledged and really worked towards and focused on.
Pat Flynn: Yeah. It's the, the show 'em don't just tell 'em sort of mantra. Yes. Right. And then when you have a community, you can have other people also show those people who are just starting out. See, it's not just JLD who has some secret magic. It's all of us who actually put in the work. You can do it too. And now people are more likely to, to achieve those goals, which I, I think is really key.
So the idea of building a community, which you were very early on to do that, it wasn't very easy to do back then. There wasn't Circle, there wasn't community building platforms and, and automations around that like there were, or, or like there, there are today.
John Lee Dumas: We used this thing called Customer Hub that was Infusionsoft, like, like answer to like a, it was so clunky and so bad. I mean, I look back and just, just the progress has happened now. Like it's in such a different place now than it was.
Pat Flynn: Yeah. Speaking of different places compared to where it was, I, I wanna talk about podcasting with you a little bit. The environment of podcasting has been changing since we started.
Obviously before it was the super nerds and those who were a little bit more techy getting the start, and then we came on board and we had personal brands, and then all of a sudden, a couple years later you, you started having the big brands and the big celebrities and then True Crime podcasts and Serial and all.
Like, it's just gone mainstream at this point. And so what would be your advice for a person who's thinking about starting a podcast? They're hearing two old dudes now talk about how early we were in the game and how successful we were from being there early. Is it too late to start a podcast? And if somebody is starting a podcast today, what would be your recommendation to make sure they get people listening and they can build an audience in a community there.
John Lee Dumas: If I launch Entrepreneurs on Fire in 2023 with my 2012 skill level, which was zero in my following, which was zero and all the above, it fails miserably because it's a, just another podcast that's being thrown into a sea of podcasts that are interviewing entrepreneurs about their stories, about their journeys, about blah, blah, blah.
Like Entrepreneurs on Fire was the first daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs. It was the best daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs. It was the worst daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs. It was the only daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs, I was able to grab that market. I was able to fill that void. I was able to serve that underserved market, and that's what people don't understand is that nobody wants a pale, weak invitation of Pat Flynn.
They want Pat Flynn. Nobody wants a pale, weak invitation of anybody. They want the true, authentic version of yourself. That's why I didn't try to create the next Smart Passive Income. I knew that that was not going to work for me. I had to say what can I create that's different, that's unique, that's gonna, you know, bring a different solution to people's problems?
And that was Entrepreneurs On Fire, the daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs. So in 2023, like, don't even try to launch a podcast that's this broad topic, that this, this vague topic that's gonna ask people the same questions that they've had a million times. Like, here's a reality, Pat. I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but, and please refute me if it's not true.
I, I get interviewed over 20 times a month, one day per month I have a block of 15 minute back-to-back interviews. I'm on other shows, typically 15 to 20 of those every single month. 19 of those 20 times I'm being interviewed, I'm being asked almost the identical same questions, John, how did you launch your podcast, John, how do you monetize your podcast, John, how do you grow your audience, John, how do you mo- Like it's the same exact questions and then the show goes and gets launched, the person's like, John, can you share with your audience? I'm like, of course not. Cuz my audience has heard those same answers to those same questions hundreds of times. They could probably answer 'em better than I could at this point. And you just confirmed that you have the exact same situation and that occasional time when I get that very unique and special podcast host that is a very special and unique format and flow, it's magic. The questions are new and they're fresh, and I'm not just like going into, you know, robot mode because I've said the same thing. Yeah, just my script. I'm actually having to answer different questions. That's stretching me, that's making me think, that's putting me on my feet, that's getting my adrenaline pumping and those are amazing episodes.
And those I do share with my audience cuz they're new, they're different, they're fun. So my answer is, listen, if you are willing to create a podcast that is the number one solution to a real problem in this world, your podcast will win. If you're not able to do that. You are likely going to just be swallowed up by the mass of podcast humanity.
That is the world right now.
Pat Flynn: Amen. Amen. And it's true. When I get asked different questions on a podcast, it makes me think and it makes me appreciate that. One of my favorite interviewers is actually on a YouTube channel, Sean Evans from Hot Ones. And in almost every interview, the celebrity guest who definitely gets asked the same questions every time, they always go, where did you dig that up?
How did you even know about that? You know, and it's just like, they're so impressed when, when that happens. And, and we as the viewers are impressed as well. And your listeners can be just as impressed too, because they probably are listening because of the celebrity or some person who has something of use, or perhaps they just are a fan of that person.
But then when they see you coming in a little bit extra to offer something different, they're gonna continue to come back to you. Right, so what's keeping you up at night these days, JLD?
John Lee Dumas: I think the macro world as a whole. I mean, I'm not a, a huge person that is just like, thinks the sky is falling. Like I, I tend to just say, Hey, you know, things will work themselves out.
You know, they have for a long time.
Pat Flynn: Do you have a bug out bag?
John Lee Dumas: It's called my house, actually. My house is a literal bubble bug out bag. I literally have 12 months of 50 year shelf life food in my attic. No way. I have. 41 solar panels and three Tesla power wall batteries. So in Puerto Rico we always have suns, so I'll always have power in my house.
I have an atmospheric water generator right behind me that makes eight gallons of water a day from the humidity in the air. So we're in Puerto Rico, we always have humidity, so I'll always have eight gallons of water a day if I need it. I am completely self-contained. I am ex-military, US army, so I may or may not have multiple weapons in my house as well.
For those people that think they can just come take over my, my abode. And I'm ready to go, man. I'm ready to go. Like, I've got a garden. Like let's go.
Pat Flynn: Let's go baby. 50 year shelf life.
John Lee Dumas: Yeah. It's gross. I know if I'm ever eating that food, something's wrong. I do know something's wrong. I know that.
Pat Flynn: What do you think is the most likely outcome in the next 10 years of, of life for the world in this macro economy that we're experiencing?
John Lee Dumas: Like what do I think the worst case scenario is or just the most likely scenario?
Pat Flynn: Like what do you think is actually gonna happen?
John Lee Dumas: I think the most likely scenario is we're fine. I think we're going to figure out inflation after a couple years and, and then we'll go, you know, on another nice bull run after we have a couple of years that we're going to experience over the next couple years of, you know, some tightening and some, you know, fed interest rate hikes, which we're seeing and you know, a lot of in instability in the housing and the, and other markets and you know, this is part of the cycle of life. I think that's probably what's going to happen. I'm not a macro economist, I'm not a micro economist. I'm not any of economist, but that's just, you know, my faith in humanity.
That's my faith in the world and I hope I'm not wrong. And, you know, there is a worst case scenario. The worst case scenario is the US dollar fails, banks fail. The United States fails, and it's a scary time then.
Pat Flynn: You got five more minutes?
John Lee Dumas: I got five more minutes.
Pat Flynn: Okay. I feel like we just need to sit and chat, have a bottle of Japanese whiskey, just catch up on things. I know you are a whiskey drinker, do you, are you still a Johnny Walker Blue
John Lee Dumas: Johnny Walker Blue's like if I'm really like saying I, I can go top shelf. Yeah. But my, my standard is Laphroaig cuz it's a much more reasonable bottle of scotch whiskey. It's super smoky and peaty and, and that's my go-to.
Pat Flynn: I'm still learning these things cuz I used to be the person at the bar, at the blog expo ordering apple martinis and you know, mai tais and stuff. So Chris Ducker is the one who sort of slapped me in the face and said, here's a man's drink for you. I still have an apple martini everyone once in while, but I do gotta say I am taking a liking to, to my Japanese whiskey.
John Lee Dumas: Well, I remember a great memory of three of us since you brought Chris up and we've had so many great memories together. So many great ones. But one of them is we were at, I think it was actually Ducker's event or his gathering when we were in San Diego one time. It was either yours or his. I think I actually was, now the thing about it was yours cuz your assistant like got us and like hustled us out.
The three of us like out a backdoor and then we all went to the scotch bar in, in San Diego and had some real drinks.
Pat Flynn: Yeah. And shout out to Greg Hickman as well. I miss that guy. Of course it's been a while since we've all been together. Yeah. But to finish up companies that you are looking, what, what companies are of interest to you right now that, that are getting you excited? Just big or small? Just curious about what's on your mind.
John Lee Dumas: I'd say AI overall and, and honestly the word excited might not be the right one. Just, and, and I kind of wish it was cuz I, I feel like if I was excited, that'd be cool because there's some huge things coming there.
More just like aware that it's gonna be huge, like in different way shapes and form. So you're very curious about it right now. Yeah. We have a sponsor coming on the, the, like, they sold me as a sponsor because they took like, two of my sentences, just that I spoke and they fed it into their software, their AI software, and then they were able to kick back an entire podcast interview.
And it sounded like me, like when you, when you were on Entrepreneurs on Fire just now, and you're like, John, I feel like I'm talking like you, like I'm, I'm using the same like pitch, the same like tonality and like all stuff cadence, like. It had my cadence, it had my tone. It's called Click Minded and there's so many of them popping up. It's crazy. Oh, I know. So many of them.
Pat Flynn: I've been getting into the rabbit hole as well, and it's been really fun and interesting and scary. It's scary at the same time. I mean, your, your voice is on 3,600 plus episodes and you only need two lines to make something sound like, like what? What's your immediate thought about that?
John Lee Dumas: I think it's, it's terrifying. I mean, one of my banks where I have a lot of money, I, not sure she's saying this out loud, but I mean, I'm gonna change things soon, but like they have voice recognition, so I get on, that's how they like unlock my account so that I can like, make transfers. No way. It's crazy.
It's like they have voice recognition. I'm like, that sounds just like me. I'm like, do I know that that bank can actually tell the difference between me and what that sounds like? I don't know.
Pat Flynn: This is a great YouTube video, by the way, just this scenario.
John Lee Dumas: Seriously. People need to think about it.
Pat Flynn: We need to work together on that.
Anyway, thank you for coming on today, dude. And even just 30 minutes with you. Is, is brightening my day cuz I know it's been years since we've connected in, in this way and we need to definitely do it more. I don't know why we're, we're very conscious of our time and what we do with it. And, you know, I need to have more JLD in my life.
John Lee Dumas: I would love for you to have more JLD in your life. So let's make it happen.
Pat Flynn: Which could be hard when, you know...
John Lee Dumas: We can say it.
Pat Flynn: Can I? Cuz by the, this will be June by the time it comes out. Is that okay?
John Lee Dumas: Oh, we're already telling everybody.
Pat Flynn: Oh, okay. Do you wanna make the announcement in case nobody's heard yet?
John Lee Dumas: Yeah. So Kate and I got married back in April after an amazing 11 year courtship. You know, I finally broke her down, she said yes. And in January we started trying and a mere two months later, we are two months pregnant. And so we are expecting. Yeah, a little KLD or JLD is coming, is coming along. Hopefully in the, in, it's gonna be around the fall timeframe, so like the October, November timeframe. And we're both super excited. You know, this was like probably one of the most intentional pregnancies like you could have. It's just like we've been talking about it for about five years now.
Be like, yeah, let's do it. Let's, let's talk about it next year and then next year and, and then finally we're like, okay, one year from now, we're gonna start. And then like one year from now we started and then right away like we're like, boom. Making it happen, so we're stoked.
Pat Flynn: Ugh. I'm so happy for you. You, you know, I have two kids who, my son is now 13, so crazy, by the way. He's a teenager. My daughter's 10. It's, it's the best thing ever and all the ups and downs that come with it. Just, just you, you, you've never felt a love like you will feel when baby comes. So I'm, I'm super happy for you both. Always happy to offer any advice should you need any, you know, I have a little experience there. I will. And can't wait to meet him or her one day.
John Lee Dumas: Thanks brother. Appreciate it all man.
Pat Flynn: Appreciate you. Where can people go to get all your best stuff right now?
John Lee Dumas: EOFire.com is the headquarters. Of course listen to the podcast, Entrepreneurs on Fire with Pat Flynn and Matt Gartland. It was a great episode.
So, tune into that one. You'll be blown away by their genius. And that's it.
Pat Flynn: Thanks brother. Appreciate you man.
John Lee Dumas: Adios.
Pat Flynn: Right, I hope you enjoy that interview and catch up with my good friend, JLD, John Lee Dumas. Always, always a pleasure, enjoying hearing about his success and all the things that he's doing and the stuff that he's getting involved with.
So congratulations, John, on the amazing announcement to you and Kate, and I'm looking forward to just being with you guys again at some point in the future. I know the pandemic kind of kept us apart for a while and we haven't been going to the same events anymore, but I'm sure we'll make it happen, and I'm looking forward to that.
So anyway, until then, appreciate you my friend, and I appreciate you my friend, you the listener, for listening all the way through. I appreciate you and I hope that you'll subscribe if you haven't already, because we have a lot of great episodes coming your way. But until then, just enjoy the day. Thank you so much, and I'll see you in the next one.
Cheers. Oh, and be sure to check out Entrepreneurs on Fire. John's always got a lot of amazing things happening there, and myself and Matt were recently on his podcast, so definitely check that out as well. So again, thank you so much. We'll see you the next one.
Thank you so much for listening to the Smart Passive Income podcast at SmartPassiveIncome.com. I'm your host, Pat Flynn. Sound editing by Duncan Brown. Our senior producer is David Grabowski, and our executive producer is Matt Gartland. The Smart Passive Income Podcast is a production of SPI Media, and a proud member of the Entrepreneur Podcast Network. Catch you next week!