Top iTunes Business Podcast

47+ Million Downloads

SPI 735: How a Small Niche Makes a Big Profit with Wojciech Wegrzynski

Many of us believe we need to reach millions of people to make a living online. We then fall into the trap of going as broad as possible with our content. That’s a huge mistake because if we try to please everyone, we please no one!

But what if a small targeted audience is actually a major asset? What if we leaned into our tiny niche and made this our strength? That’s where the magic happens!

In this episode, we hear all about Wojciech Wegrzynski’s incredible journey. His truly life-saving podcast, the Fire Science Show, averages just 500 downloads per episode. But here’s the thing—Wojciech’s revenue from sponsors is already surpassing the income from his engineering job!

How is that even possible?

Listen in because this episode brings together some of the most important topics we discuss here on the show. We cover the power of niching down and podcasting, overcoming fear and procrastination, and building authority in your space.

Wojciech combines these elements in a big way, adding his fire safety expertise to the mix to make a massive difference in his industry. Join us to learn more!

Today’s Guest

Wojciech Wegrzynski

Hey there. I’m Wojciech, a 38-year-old father of four. I got my PhD in 2017 and, in 2020, a professorship at the Building Research Institute in Warsaw, Poland.

I earn my living by setting stuff on fire and trying to model that with a computer—something professionals would call Fire Safety Engineering. I’m an author of many papers and more than 200 technical projects related to buildings—including large road tunnels, shopping malls, and some of Europe’s highest skyscrapers.

My podcast, the Fire Science Show, leverages my science and engineering backgrounds to bridge the gap between the two with easy-to-digest knowledge. So far, I’ve published 120+ episodes and I am nowhere close to exhausting the topics important to the industry.

You’ll Learn

Resources

SPI 735: How a Small Niche Makes a Big Profit with Wojciech Wegrzynski

Wojciech Wegrzynski: We need something else in the communication between the scientists and the benefactor of the science. And podcast appeared to be a brilliant route to find them. So I didn’t care how many people will listen because I knew that whoever listens, I can really make a big change for the everyday work of that single person.

But seeing, you know, fifty people downloaded! One hundred! Two hundred! Wow, three hundred fire safety engineers listening. I didn’t have any other way to reach three hundred people with an hour long message.

Pat Flynn: I’m so excited about this podcast episode because you’re about to listen to somebody who has recently started their brand, who has a very small following. They’re in a very tiny niche. I mean, the overall population of how many people are even in this industry is just thousands. Yet his podcast has been able to generate enough revenue to surpass his day job.

And we’re going to talk about exactly what these numbers are, exactly how he got started, how he’s doing this. I want to introduce you to Wojciech over in Poland who has a Fire Science Podcast, FireScienceShow.com. And it’s an incredible story, in fact, you can check out his podcast if you’d like, but listen in and stick around to the end because he actually came back to me after this interview was done.

We had a really good time and he said, Pat, I wanted to offer more, I want to show you And give you the exact framework of how I pitched my podcast to a sponsor. And even though I had a tiny number of downloads, I mean, we do talk about that, but he goes into more in depth, which I’ll literally read for you word for word at the end because it is that valuable.

And it’s, it’s going to break your mind in such an amazing way because I think a lot of us feel like we need millions of downloads, but you don’t. In your niche that you’re in, you can be a superstar and you can help out and you can provide value. And Wojciech did exactly that. Fire Science Show is where you can check him out.

Anyway, let’s get right into it. This is session 735 of the Smart Passive Income podcast. And here he is.

Announcer: You’re listening to the Smart Passive Income Podcast, a proud member of the Entrepreneur Podcast Network, a show that’s all about working hard now, so you can sit back and reap the benefits later. And now your host, he wishes he lived right next to water so he can go fishing during breakfast every day, Pat Flynn.

Pat Flynn: Wojciech, welcome to the SPI podcast. It’s an honor to have you on the show. Thank you.

Wojciech Wegrzynski: Well, Pat, thank you so much. A dream come true. And you’ve been helping me so much over the years. It’s my turn to help others.

Pat Flynn: I appreciate you for that. I wanted to get your story and get you on here because you are a fairly new podcaster and you sent a message in our community about how successful the podcast has been for you.

We’ll get back into the sort of how this all began, but like, where are you at now with your show? What has happened as a result of starting your show?

Wojciech Wegrzynski: Oh man, that has been an amazing journey. So first of all, I’m, I’m a fire safety engineer, fire protection engineer. So I deal with how to make buildings safe in case of fires.

And there’s actually a whole profession around that. It’s not a huge profession. It’s kind of a secret organization, and there’s not that many people working in this organization, but the ones who do are very passionate, and it’s really we’re having a great blast doing what we’re doing, and podcasting was like I enjoy podcasts, you know, and I understand what it means to build connections through podcasts. You know, in a way how I’m connected to you, for example, by listening to hundreds of your episodes. So I understood there is some magic in that and I perhaps would love to have some of this magic in my world, but I, I struggled, you know, it’s, it’s a tiny niche.

It kind of didn’t make sense to, to start a podcast for just perhaps a few hundred people, you know, I, I’ve battled for that for years before I thought, yeah, let, let’s take a jump and let’s see where this gets me. And now two years into the podcast, 120 episodes later, Oh, that best decision ever really.

Pat Flynn: Why was it the best decision ever?

Wojciech Wegrzynski: The way how you can connect with people is truly something out of this world, the way how you affect others in your profession. So fire safety engineering is a very difficult discipline. It’s a mix of thermodynamics, civil engineering, human behavior, computer sciences, fluid mechanics, like a lot of different sciences that go into it and the person who’s delivering the fire safety strategy should kind of comprehend most of that in some way in order to really deliver a good product in the end, a safe building in the end.

And it’s very difficult to keep up with all the stuff that’s happening in all of these disciplines around. So many of fire safety engineers struggle with that because they are, you know, close in their own silo. They would be designing the stuff that they’re always designing, you know, doing the stuff they’re always been doing and they have very little exposure to what’s happening around them.

What’s the progress in other remote ends in fire safety engineering. And that’s what I try to bring them with the fire science show my podcast. I try to give them, you know, the easiest way to keep up with what’s happening in the industry and it’s kind of magic because I’ve also learned there is no irrelevant topics in the show. And this allows people to really grow as professionals in a very serious engineering discipline on which human lives kind of depend.

Pat Flynn: That’s amazing. So the human to human connection, different people in the industry now coming together. I mean, who have you connected with now that maybe is surprising to you since starting your show?

Wojciech Wegrzynski: There are this you know, famous names in the discipline professors who have built the whole discipline in the seventies, eighties. A guy from Poland. I don’t have connections, you know, anywhere. I did not have connections anywhere. It was kind of surreal for me to be able to reach them, have them respond to me, have them talk with me for hours.

Enjoy it. So cool. Make friends with them. You know, it’s like being a part of the history of discipline and kind of preserving that for, for future generations, because we also know the podcast can live for a long time. And, you know, what’s more important when these people were building this discipline up, they wrote papers, they wrote books. So the knowledge is there, but you very rarely know the context. You know, I can ask them, why did you write this book? Why did you run this experiment? Like how did the space look back then that made you pursue this and this kind of magic, because this is knowledge that if I have not made this podcast, if I have not made those interviews, we would never know.

You know, only the close circle of those people would know and this were this kind of magical moments for me in the show where I really think I’ve done something nice for the community that was not present there.

Pat Flynn: You know, that’s so cool. You’ve used the M word a few times now, magic, and that’s how I describe podcasts as well.

And here we are now connecting as a result of the podcast that I’ve had. And I’m curious because the message that you sent in the community, talked about a big win that you’ve had recently and and I know this wasn’t the primary reason why you started your show to generate revenue, but or what can you share about that?

What what recently happened that just like was a really amazing validation for this point for you?

Wojciech Wegrzynski: So actually, I’ve received a snippet of validation before. So I had a buy me a coffee on my podcast and some people were sending me, you know, a few bucks. It was nice to, you know, pay for editing software and then host.

And most more important, it was like, if someone’s actually takes time to send you a few bucks and then write a nice message, that’s a confirmation that what you’re doing is worth for the person. Yeah, that’s great. Also, you know, podcasting is a hard job and it takes time and it, it takes, if you want to do it high quality, it takes resources.

So for something like 80 episodes, I was doing all that on my own without any financial support. And then eventually I, I found somebody that shares the view of the world that I have an engineering company from the UK or far if I can tell the name and then engineering company who share the mindset.

They also invest a lot on the research in fire. They do good engineering. I know the owners personally, so it was something it was I trusted them that it’s going to be a good collaboration and they’ve they’ve agreed to sponsor the show to take the financial burden, if I may, of doing this on them.

Actually, the deal that we’ve negotiated was on my end, it was quite fair compensation for the work, like very similar, if not even better than what I have in my day job. And that was like with one deal. I didn’t want the hassle of, you know, selling episode by episode. So when I reached out to sponsor, I reached out for a long term partnership very, very openly.

Like it’s also an engineering company. They’re not selling products. I’m not advertising any sales in the podcast. What we do is that we show that our messages line that we have the same mindset. And what they told me and later on, I’ve heard from others who would also like to sponsor the show because it’s, it’s kind of growing.

They all tell me that the thing that I’ve created is for them unique and no one knew that we need a podcast for this discipline, you know, and it would be such a shame if, if this got lost somewhere. So they truly want to support me in this mission. So this can continue because they enjoyed and they seem.

See an immense value in, in their employees. For example, following the podcast, you know, they see like ritual value of the content that it’s created to, to the level that a, they would be associated with it in a way, you know, and a B they would love to make sure it doesn’t disappear anywhere anytime soon because it’s, it’s simply valuable for them.

And I appreciate this. It’s the best message you can receive, right?

Pat Flynn: That’s amazing. I mean, that’s the perfect kind of partnership when that partner or company shares the same values as you sees what you’re doing, wants it to survive and thrive. And they’re able to support you in that way. That’s, that’s incredible.

And so you now have a podcast that you absolutely love, you’re passionate about. Other people are enjoying it. Some are even, you know, tipping you for the work that you do. Yeah, that’s amazing. Now you have a sponsor who’s come in for a long term contract that allows you to make more than what you made in your day job.

And can you tell everybody how many downloads per episode are you averaging on your show?

Wojciech Wegrzynski: Oh, it’s, it’s a lot. It’s like 500 per episode. I know you’ve invited here, meet me here because it is a small podcast. And perhaps the episode we’re recording today will get more downloads than my entire Catalog of 120, but there’s nothing wrong with that Pat and it’s not the download number that matters.

You know, I don’t calculate my life in clicks per million. I knew what I’m jumping into, you know, I understood that the niche I am in is small. If we have a conference that’s attended by 300 people, that’s a huge conference. If the conference has 500 people, that’s the biggest event of the year. You know?

Yeah. Everybody’s there. Everybody’s there. So I estimate so, so you don’t know that number. I don’t know that number because I’m not spying on my, on my listeners, but from Apple panel, I can see there one and a half thousand listeners. So which would mean individual devices to download the podcast. And I know from my best friend account, which is my host, they give you a statistic where the listeners come from.

And Apple is 35 percent of my listenership. So, you know, working the numbers backwards, I can say there is perhaps four to four and a half thousand people that have listened at some point to the podcast. So that’s pretty much the size of the people who know the show by listening it. Also, you know, 500, 600 per episode. Some episodes go above 1000. Okay, that that’s and you can see them growing. That’s also the beautiful thing about podcast. These episodes don’t disappear. You know, it’s not a one week thing. They they live. I can see people coming in listening to some episodes missing other episodes coming back.

From discussions, even I, there’s very few people who would say, okay, I’ve listened to all 120. I would assume there are just a few people like that. And I appreciate you a lot if you went with me for this long journey and, but I also appreciate the listeners. If they just listen to 1 episodes, if they brought them value, that’s all I’ve tramped to deliver.

So yeah, four, four and a half thousand listeners that probably that’s it.

Pat Flynn: I mean, that’s a pretty tiny amount. And a lot of us who start podcasts, worry about those numbers. Like we want to get into bigger niches. We want to reach as many people as possible. This is a perfect example. And one of the main reasons why I wanted you on the show, not just because what you’re doing is awesome and I wanted to celebrate you, but I want to inspire those who might be thinking that small is bad, small can be great. Imagine if your show was not just about the science of fire, but it was like all things building related, right? Everything from like lead exam stuff to structural code to all these things. It probably wouldn’t be as impactful if it was about all those things. Tell me about before you started your show, was there any worry about the work that you were about to put into it and what you might eventually get back from it before you started?

Wojciech Wegrzynski: No, not really. Like not, not to worry. It was more like a jump into unknown with full acceptance that if I end up with 25 people listening to the show, I’m going to make it the best show for those 25 people as I can.

You know, I, I had an experience in my career and that was one of the main triggers I’ve started podcasting 2019, I’ve received a very big award, scientific award from national fire protection association for the best paper of the year. It’s a massive award. You get like one of the biggest you can get in the fire science community.

And in that, a part of that award was to go to San Antonio USA and, and pick the award. And you deliver a keynote speech. Well, not keynote. You deliver a speech about the award that you just received, you know, so I’m like out of my mind. I’m going to US I’m going to pick the award. I’m going to give a speech.

It’s going to be amazing. I go there. I walk to the room. The room says Beaglestone Award. There’s not my name. No topic, which was wind and fire engineering. I’m like, okay, that’s, this is not great. I entered the room. There are two people inside the person who was chairing the session and one person in the audience.

So, and I’ve made it the one of the best speeches I had in my life. You know, they tell you just pick a person in the audience to then deliver the speech to them. In this case, it was super easy. People in the room, but I thought at that point, like, is this the pinnacle? Like, is this the top of the mountain?

It’s sure looks empty. And. Okay. The gala dinner, you know, when I was given the award was amazing, full of directors, presidents, people shaking hands. But when I went downstairs, you know, to meet the engineers, the people for whom I can make a difference in their everyday job, they were not in the room. And I thought we need something else in the communication between the scientists and the benefactor of the science.

And podcast appeared to be a brilliant route to find them. So I didn’t really care how many people by the number will listen because I knew that there’s a good chance whoever listens, I can really make a big change for the everyday work of that single person in every single episode. Also, the episodes are pretty hard and pretty scattered.

You know, not every episode is for everyone. So I kind of accepted that. And when I accepted that I’ve embraced it, I’ve made it my strength. Of course, I cared about the numbers in the end, you know, checking the statistics, I guess this inevitable, but seeing, you know, 50 people downloaded 100, 200. Wow. This episode passed 300.

It felt really amazing because I knew on the receiving end, there is 300 fire safety engineers listening. And I didn’t have any other way to reach 300 people with an hour long message that would be such detailed in any different way, you know, it’s very unique in the way how you can deliver the message.

Pat Flynn: That’s amazing. I mean, even with the one of the highest awards in the industry, you were only able to see two people in that room. I bet that felt amazing. But what does it feel like now on this end to be a podcaster and to have an audience and to have people recognize you? Where do you see your position in this industry that you’re in going from here?

I’m curious.

Wojciech Wegrzynski: Yeah, it’s… One thing is really weird. Like people talk to you like they know you for ages. I guess you have the same.

Pat Flynn: I’ve said that. Yeah, it’s, it is weird at first for sure.

Wojciech Wegrzynski: I hope you can get used to that. It’s really confusing, but I kind of love it how it positions me in the industry. I hope to be recognized as one of the thought leaders of the industry nowadays.

I see I’m being invited more. I’m invited to keynote speeches, not normal talks anymore. More than two people in the audience. Significantly more than two people in the audience. That’s a great progress. I participate in the professional organizations that we have on the leadership stage. So, so that’s also great.

So definitely see more opportunities coming my way. But also, you know, I, as a scientist, I recognized that opportunities, they do not scale linear, you know, the fact that you’re twice better doesn’t mean you get to twice more opportunities, you know, like you probably get the same, the same, the same, and then you have a hundred more opportunities.

It’s, it’s exponential and very unfair, you know? So I, I see, I perhaps am somewhere on the curve that that’s growing that much more opportunity is coming my way. I associate this with podcasts, obviously, because it’s something that’s reaching people. People speak about it. My name is in the circulation, so definitely I can attribute a lot of this to the fact I’m doing the podcast.

But also, if I think, well, what if I was not doing the podcast? Perhaps I would also reach this opportunities by simply being a good scientist, a researcher, you know, and doing my conferences, papers and stuff. It’s just, it would be significantly later in the time. No, I think the curve is much more steep the opportunity curve for me nowadays than it was without the podcast. And yeah, this makes it very worthwhile, my effort. Like if you took the money out of the question if I would be paying for everything and would not have revenue and only benefited from this new opportunities that come my way and the way how I can position myself in the industry, I would take it, like, even without the money. Money is just a bonus. Yeah, I mean, it’s obviously nice and fantastic to have this support, you know, freedom, you don’t stress about it, it’s brilliant. I won’t say the money is not great, but it was never the driver, you know, and having it is, it just gives me more opportunity, you know, more freedom.

That freedom is the thing I crave for.

Pat Flynn: Well, you definitely deserve it, and I’m really excited to see it. You have an accent, I’m curious if you’ve ever worried about that because it’s just our voice and I know a lot of people struggle with that. I’m curious if you have any advice for for those who might be thinking the same thing.

Wojciech Wegrzynski: I think that matters that much as long as you have something to say, you know, I would say the message trumps the language for sure.

Even though English is not my first language and they sometimes struggle finding the correct word and making a very beautiful, you know, speech or introduction in the end, it’s the message that that needs to get through and and people will will will get over that. I don’t think it ever cost me any, any issues.

I’m used to speaking in English. I’ve spent a lot of time playing World of Warcraft with Swedish players. So that gets you, that gets you a decent English. So for me, it’s not an unknown environment, but I’ll also, if I did not have the skills for our language to do the podcast in English, and I just did the podcast in Polish, I think it would still be successful perhaps even more because I could connect to a more specific part of the, of the niche, you know, I, I could initiate even more down. And actually I’m thinking about doing that because I also am a little I do exclude a bit of my audience, you know, because many Polish engineers would not speak English greatly. And I believe they’re excluded and these are the people I work with every day.

So I’m also thinking about making a podcast in Polish and I think this types of podcasts. Also have a long way and can really shine. I agree. And guess what? Yeah. Five years from now, we’re going to have AI translators who will deliver this in my voice in any language you want. So if you have doubts, the future looks very bright on the technology side.

Pat Flynn: It’s interesting. You mentioned Poland and Polish language. Many of our audience here knows Michał Szafonski, who I’ve told stories about, and he then started his own podcast and has done really well in the financial industry over there, and, you know, the podcast numbers there are actually quite big, those who are listening in the Polish language.

I just read a study recently that Poland has the largest percentage of population of the country that listens to podcasts, actually. Really? Yes. Wow. Poland specifically, so they’re on the forefront of it. So that’s just maybe even further validation for that. And we’re also seeing in a lot of other platforms, not just podcasting, but, you know, even on YouTube, people like MrBeast are repurposing their content and actually hiring people to translate that content into other languages as well, just to reach more people.

Because it’s the same message, but it’s just, there’s that language barrier. And once that’s broken, I mean, it opens up a whole new potential audience base for you. So just, just something to think about. Were there any other struggles or what were the, you know, we always have like that demon on our shoulder that’s telling us you can’t do this and you’re not good at this and all this kind of stuff.

Did you have any of those thoughts when you, when you began the show a couple of years ago?

Wojciech Wegrzynski: Related to, let’s say the fire science, I didn’t, I didn’t have that much because I’m a professor here. I know your stuff. I know my stuff. I’m kind of comfortable with fire science. I’ve done this my entire life.

This, this is my playground, but being, you know, in front of a microphone and camera, that’s a completely new setting for you for that. I had little worries that will, will that work? I kind of hate my voice in a way. Most people probably do so that, that, that was stopping me for a good year. You know, I would say I’ve built the knowledge base to start a podcast by listening to you.

You had a great YouTube videos that show in one hour, pretty much. What do you need to have? I know you have the courses that help people start podcasts. I took Amped Up Podcasting when I was already a podcaster and that was fantastic experience for me. Thank you. So I had the knowledge how to do it.

But from the moment I obtained knowledge 2019 to the first episode of the podcast 2021, there’s a two and a half year gap. And that gap is, is the demons you said. It’s, it’s not easy to press record, go public, you know I really had to make myself accountable. And unable to withdraw in a way.

Pat Flynn: How did you do that?

Wojciech Wegrzynski: I paid 200 bucks for a logo. That’s a lot of money for a logo. So if I pay 200 bucks for one, I better use it, right? Yeah. And the second thing I’ve invited a friend, professor. He’s a pretty famous person in here. I’m lucky that he’s also my friend. So I was comfortable having him as my first interview, but they also told him Guillermo, come to, I’m starting a podcast is going to air, you know, first week of June this year. And I didn’t have anything ready. It was month before. And I said, it’s going to air in June. Let’s go. Let’s do it. And yeah, he was immediately happy to do it. And I’m like, Oh, now I have to do it. Like I said, no, so that you can wait longer in a way.

Yeah. And not like, you know, I did it with a, you know, full understanding what I’m into, but the moment I made it myself, not able to withdraw from it, I just went full into it. And that was a good decision.

Pat Flynn: That’s amazing. This is going to be really encouraging for a lot of people who are just starting out the idea that you can succeed as a podcaster in a small niche. The last question I have related to what you just said is interviewing. Interviewing is a skill that is not easy to pick up, and it’s something that you get better at the more you do it. And now that you’ve been two years into this, might you have any advice for the listener who now is excited to get started on their podcast, but is feeling the same way you did when you asked your professor friend to come on the show?

What interview tips might you have for everybody listening?

Wojciech Wegrzynski: So I’ll, I’ll tell you what was my approach to, to these whole interview concept. And that was also one of the reasons I thought a new channel of communication is necessary. If you listen to scientists, a lot of personal traits that make you a good scientist, make you a pretty bad communicator.

It kind of is like that. And sometimes you go into a scientific conference and there’s a person showcasing their work. Yeah. For 20 minutes and people fall asleep because it’s kind of unbearable, you know, and if you have talk by talk by talk by talk for six hours, these conferences can be very difficult.

And then after the conference, you go in the evening with that person and you can spend two hours talking about the exact same work. And it’s fantastic. They are full of passion. It’s literally fire. And I thought, like, why are those people not doing this? Transferring those emotions through their public speeches, you know, they’re transferring knowledge, but they keep the emotions behind.

And I thought if I could, in a way, reproduce this informal setting, you know, of just chatting with the person about what they’re doing and extracting the knowledge by asking meaningful questions about their work, In the way that I set them up, you know, to give me everything they would like to share with the audience and you know, they speak with me, but the listener is the third person in this conversation.

That’s how I would love it to be like there’s me, the guest and the listener and all three of us are having the conversation is just listener is silent and I’m, I’m their mouth and I’m their voice, you know, and as soon as I realize it, it, it’s not about interview. It’s about an honest conversation, you know, with listening, with asking meaningful questions, following up, you know, really digging into it with a real curiosity, not a fake curiosity.

I’m not faking curiosity so podcast sounds good. I’m really curious about what the person has to say. I set them up. For communicating not only with knowledge but also emotion and this makes the interview something that is very pleasant to listen, very informal and just fun, you know, I want it to be fun.

Science is already hard enough. We don’t need to make science harder. It’s great to have it fun.

Pat Flynn: Gee whiz, I’m like, my brain is like, we got to share this episode as soon as possible because every day that goes by without people listening to it, I mean, they might miss out. This is incredible. Wojciech, thank you so much for all of this and I’m so proud of you and I’m so Just happy about the success that you’ve had and the success that’s to come.

And you know that you always have our support here at SPI. So just keep going, man. You’re, you’re doing amazing work. And thank you again for jumping on this pretty quick here to, to share this with us. It’s very meaningful and it’s going to help a lot of people. Where might people go to listen to your show?

If you’d like the, the numbers for, you know, maybe some of the episodes after this episode comes out might be a little skewed for you. Cause people will want to hear it, but where should they go to find more of

Wojciech Wegrzynski: you? The podcast is at FireScienceShow.Com and you can find it on Twitter on LinkedIn.

I’m personally most present on LinkedIn to be honest. You can find me by my name, which most likely will be in your show notes. And I want to butcher people with just, there’s a lot of vowels.

Pat Flynn: Like I, I’m not even gonna try.

Wojciech Wegrzynski: That’s, that’s what you would expect from a proper Polish name, right? So if you would like to connect, if, if there is any way I can help you out directly, if you have any questions, how to set it up, how to start, if you have any doubts, just send me a message and I’ll, I’ll trade, try to help you out. Ton of help from people when I was starting my podcast and I really believe in, you know, giving back. So if there is any way I can help, I’m happy to do it.

Pat Flynn: Well, thank you so much and you’re also in our communities as well and people can connect with you in there. So thank you for the inspiration Fire Science Show.

We’ll have everything in the show notes as mentioned. I appreciate you man. Thank you so much for coming on today.

Wojciech Wegrzynski: Thank you, Pat.

Pat Flynn: Alright, I hope you enjoyed that interview with Wojciech host of the Fire Science Show, and definitely check him out. He is a wealth of information, especially if you’re into fire and science and engineering and that kind of thing, but also he’s just a really dope guy and he’s thinking about starting a podcast in Polish, which is really cool.

But I wanted to read for you something he shared with me after the interview was done. He wanted to share exactly how he got his sponsorship deal. We talked about that. We talked about some of the numbers. I’m not going to reveal exact dollar amount, but like we were talking about, he’s making more with his podcast than in his day job, despite having relatively smaller numbers.

So this is what he said. This is how I priced the sponsor deal. It was a huge pain point and a real blockade for me. I was afraid if I did it too low, I’d be stuck at that price point for a long time. I also did not want to shoot too high. What gave me huge clarity in this was the Pricing for Profit Workshop with Matt Gartland, that’s our Matt, Matt from SPI, which was included in the All Access Pass, one of the best invested hour of time I had.

Matt explained a cost plus method, which I used to evaluate how much my time could be worth, and that was a great start. He also introduced pricing based on competition, which I took over for a creative spin. I figured out that sponsoring a podcast in many ways resembles sponsoring a conference, a two day conference event is roughly 12 hours of content in a quarter of a podcast is or a quarter’s worth of a podcast, like three months is 12 hours of content. In conferences, the sponsors have direct access to people, but in podcasts, it’s even better. They have the host reaching out in their name. In conferences, you find unfocused and sometimes random people while in podcasts, you find the people who listen for a reason are focused and are in the right mindset to learn something. In conferences, the brand exposure can be very intense with logos, stands and everything, but in podcasts, the influence is spread over a long period of time. Having differences in mind, I think it’s fair to compare them together, then I found conferences of a similar size to my 500 people at that time and use their premium sponsoring package price as a benchmark for a quarter of sponsorship of my show.

It worked perfectly for me and gave me confirmation that companies do pay such money for a similar exposure to similar groups of people. Incredible Wojciech. Thank you so much for that insight, that additional insight. And that’s great. And this is part of the power of the All Access Pass. You have access to a lot of things depending on where you’re at in your business and what you might need.

And Matt’s Pricing for Profit Workshop is going to stand the test of time because it is genius. And shout out to Matt as well, but also especially to you, Wojciech and you, the listener. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Again, Wojciech from the fire science show. I hope this is inspiring to you. I know a lot of you who might be listening to this did hear me share a clip of this on Instagram and on Twitter not too long ago, because I really wanted to share a preview of this, especially as we’ve had new students come in to take our Power of Podcasting 3.0 course, and people are going through that accelerator right now, or in fact, probably almost done.

So anyway, congratulations to everybody. Congratulations to you. Thank you so much for listening in and hit that subscribe button. And looking forward to helping be a part of your success story as well. Cheers. Thanks so much. And I’ll see you in the next one.

Thank you so much for listening to the Smart Passive Income podcast at SmartPassiveIncome.com. I’m your host, Pat Flynn. Sound editing by Duncan Brown. Our senior producer is David Grabowski, and our executive producer is Matt Gartland. The Smart Passive Income Podcast is a production of SPI Media, and a proud member of the Entrepreneur Podcast Network. Catch you next week!


Smart Passive Income Podcast

with Pat Flynn

Weekly interviews, strategy, and advice for building your online business the smart way.

Get Unstuck in just 5 minutes, for free

Our weekly Unstuck newsletter helps online entrepreneurs break through mental blocks, blind spots, and skill gaps. It’s the best 5-minute read you’ll find in your inbox.

Free newsletter. Unsubscribe anytime.

Join 135k+

Subscribers