SPI 479: John Lee Dumas and The Common Path to Uncommon Success (Behind the Scenes)

SPI 479: John Lee Dumas and The Common Path to Uncommon Success (Behind the Scenes)

Pat Flynn:
The year was 2014, and I was prepping to present at New Media Expo. This was a big one, this was actually the biggest presentation I had ever done. This was not the one with the DeLorean that I came out on and I had a little mini movie that I filmed, that was the year later. But this one was about the idea of giving away things for free and how that could actually give you a great return. I was actually so adamant about making this the best presentation ever that I hired a coach, Mike Pacchione, to help me. And he was very, very helpful, by the way.

And when I got to the event, I was ready to speak, I had everything I needed. And then last minute, I was told that there was going to be a part of the presentation that I didn't even know was going to be there, a part that you can't really prepare for, and that is the Q&A, the question and answer session. I rehearsed my talk dozens of times, probably more than that. And the Q&A, you can't really prepare for it, you just have to hope for the best. And so I finished my presentation, but then I'm actually more nervous about the last part, because that's the part I didn't rehearse. A couple of people asked some questions that I was really grateful for because they verified a lot of the things I was talking about and it allowed me to share some of my own stories related to free.

And then a gentleman comes up on the microphone, young-looking guy, and he asks a question with so much poise and so eloquently that I can't help but just do a double-take and just squint to see exactly who this person is. And as I squint and I focus in a little bit more, I notice that he is like these red, rosy cheeks, handsome guy, and his name is John Lee Dumas. I had never heard of him before, but he asked his question and I answered it. And then after, he came up and shook my hand, and Jaime Masters came by because she wanted to introduce us.

John was working with Jaime and Jaime and I were good friends. And after getting to meet John for the first time and realizing that there was something special about this kid, I knew I had to just pay attention to what he was doing. And then he popped the question, "Will you marry me?" No, he didn't ask me that. He asked me if I could become the first guest on his show, his new podcast that was going to come out very soon, Entrepreneur On Fire. And he told me it was going to be a daily podcast. And inside my head, I just laughed. I was like, "Ha, ha. Good luck with that. Because podcasting is hard, I do it weekly. Every day? I don't know how you're going to do this."

And fast forward today, seven-plus years later, John Lee Dumas has recorded over 3,000 episodes, has interviewed some of the top entrepreneurs in the world, and he had done it daily. And is now one of the most successful entrepreneurs that I know. He lives in Puerto Rico now and he has millions of dollars of earnings. And he has got a lot of products out there, and has even included some personal development books, more workbook-type things. But here he is today, actually on the show to come back for, I don't know, fourth, fifth, sixth time, to talk about something he's never done before, which I'm excited about because it reminds me of that day when he came up to me and asked a question about podcasting, I think it was.

And here he is now, following my footsteps again, but probably going to crush me because we're very competitive with each other, but it's related to writing books. And he has his first published book out. And actually, it is a traditionally published book. I do not have one of those, so I ask them a lot of questions about that process, in fact. But we ask him more questions today about the idea of his book, which is The Common Path to Uncommon Success. How do we have a roadmap in front of us towards success? And why aren't everybody doing it? That's what we're going to talk about today and more with our good friend, John Lee Dumas. This is a fun one.

We joke around. We have a lot of fun. We're good friends, and I cannot wait for you to hear this. So, here's the intro.

Announcer:
Welcome to the Smart Passive Income Podcast, where it's all about working hard now so you can sit back and reap the benefits later. And now your host - he thinks if you listen to this show, you must be excited about your future - Pat Flynn!

Pat:
Hey, what's up everybody? Pat Flynn here and welcome to episode 479 of the Smart Passive Income Podcast. My name is Pat Flynn, here to help you make more money, save more time, and help more people too. And there's not anybody in the world that I know more who can do all of those, he makes a lot of money, he helps a lot of people, and he saves a lot of time doing it. That's none other than John Lee Dumas. And you heard what we're going to talk about today, so we're just going to dive right in. Here he is, John Lee Dumas, and his new book, The Common Path to Uncommon Success, which you could find at UncommonSuccessBook.com.

John, welcome back to the podcast. How are you, my friend?

John Lee Dumas:
Pat, it is always amazing hanging out with you, brother. Thanks for having me.

Pat:
It's been quite a while actually, since the last time you've been on the show. You've been a recurring guest, but it's been a long time. What has been happening since, I don't know, two years ago when you were on the show?

John:
Well, I'm still in Puerto Rico. The birds are still singing, the sun is still shining. The two biggest things that have happened is, number one, 11 months ago, we got ourselves a little Goldendoodle addition to the family. His name is Gus. He's 55 pounds and he's a big furry love - We call him a puddle of fluff because he just will just come over and he'll just plop on you and just all his bones seem to just disappear. And then on December 25th, brother, I popped a certain question to a certain someone and asked Kate Lynn Erickson to marry me.

Pat:
Yay! Congratulations, man. Congratulations. We knew it was going to come, we just didn't know when. And that's really cool. When's the big date?

John:
So, her sister, actually, this is pretty cool, has a podcast called The Wedding Planning Podcast.

Pat:
No way.

John:
They are actually now doing a series together, Kate and her sister Kara, about planning this wedding.

Pat:
That's pretty cool.

John:
I'm not involved at all. I did my job, I bought the ring, I proposed, and now I'm stepping out, letting Kate and Kara have fun as sisters. And if anybody wants to hear about the journey, I'm sure Kara's going to be publishing it soon over on her podcast.

Pat:
What's the name of the podcast?

John:
The Wedding Planner Podcast.

Pat:
The Wedding Planner Podcast. How cool, how cool. Will you ever listen to that show so you can get some insight on like, how things went down?

John:
I'm kind of curious what my own wedding is going to look like, I really am. So I'll probably have to listen.

Pat:
You know how you're not supposed to look at the wedding dress beforehand? Are you allowed to listen to the wedding podcast beforehand? I don't know if that's ever-

John:
All good questions that we probably have no answers to.

Pat:
No answers whatsoever, but we do have answers to The Common Path to Uncommon Success. And this is related to your new book that's just coming out. I'm proud of you, man. This is a first time venture for you to go down this publishing route. I'd love to know before we dive into the topic of the book, how's it been going, self-published, traditionally published? What was your decision and really the origin of the book and how you're trying to get it out there?

John:
Well, Pat, it's no surprise and it's not like it's a secret, but I've admired you for like over a decade now. And I've really watched what you've done and I've done a lot of those same things in my business because success leaves clues. I like to follow successful people, you're incredibly successful. But one area that I did not follow you down a path on was writing a book. Frankly, I was just like, "Good for Pat. He seems like he's a great writer to me. I'm more of a talker, or audio is my thing. I just don't see a book in me." And really, there wasn't a book in me, frankly, for a decade.

I'm coming up on a decade with Entrepreneurs on Fire now. 3,000 episodes, 100 million listenings, 1.4 million listens every month of the show right now. I just did not have a book in me up to this point. And then it really came down, if we're being honest, to, I had a ton of time on my hands during the quarantine that we all experienced in 2020. And I sat down and I said, "Okay, all my speaking engagements are canceled. All my travel plans were canceled. What am I going to do with my free time now?" And I look at my inbox, you look in your inbox, and we get hundreds of emails from our audience, me from Fire Nation, you from SPI Nation.

And they're all great questions and comments that we get, but they're essentially like the same 10 questions. They're slightly varied, but they're all essentially the same questions. And I just can't take the time to respond to hundreds and hundreds of emails, there's just no time that exists in this world. So I finally was like, "It's time for me to create the answer to all of these questions in one place, in one book. Let me write the book that I know needs to be written, The Common Path to Uncommon Success." Man, it was a process, brother. I don't know how you've done it multiple times.

Pat:
Yeah. We'll get into the process in just a moment, but I'm totally not surprised that you finally, as a result of the pandemic, are forced to just like chill out for a little bit and take a breather from all the stuff that you do, and yet you still find some way to fill in that time with something probably more excruciating than anything that I know I've ever done, which is write a book. So tell me about the process. What was it like to write? Did you ever explore having somebody else write? I know you're very good at handing things off to have things done and be more productive. Did you try that here?

John:
Great questions, brother. So, just to even back up a little bit from there, but I will get to that, is, first off, I was just like, "Okay, I don't even know what it looks like to even go down potentially a traditionally published route. I want to at least explore that. I might do self published, but let's potentially explore traditional." So I found an agent, actually it was Hal Elrod's agent, and he connected me to her and we had a great conversation. She ended up really convincing me that, number one, she knew my brand, that she understood it, she'd been a listener for a while. And she came up with some great ideas for me and just said, "Hey, let's have some conversations, and if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out."

And so she set up this two days, just marathon, Pat, back to back to back where I just talked to all the big five and then some other great publishers, some smaller ones, like I talked to Amazon's division and a couple of other smaller publishers as well. And then she's like, "Okay, this is where it starts." I'm like, "What?" She's like, "Well, the bidding war. They're going to have to bid for your advance. The highest bidder doesn't necessarily win, but you're going to take that into account when you choose your publisher if you go that route." So we ended up then having like a 48-hour, really interesting, like, "Okay, submit your first bid."

And then you see all the bids come in, then you come back to the top three that you want to work with, and say, "Okay, you guys are top three, you have 24 for your final invest." And then it got to that. The winner ended up being HarperCollins Leadership, for multiple reasons. They actually weren't the highest, they were tied for the highest, they weren't just the highest alone. But I love that the publisher there, they worked with Rachel Hollis and John Maxwell very recently on great books that they had both written. So I connected with that, and I knew that they were very knowledgeable of my industry within the entrepreneur space.

I share everything, I share my income reports, inspired by you, income reports. And there was a $350,000 advance for a first time writer.

Pat:
Bro! Congratulations, man.

John:
I was pretty stoked on that.

Pat:
That is pretty sweet. That is pretty sweet.

John:
Yeah. So I went the traditional route. Yeah.

Pat:
Yeah. That's cool. How has it been working with a traditional publisher? I've heard horror stories in many cases of lack of control and just saying they need you more than you need them kind of stuff. How has it really been on the inside?

John:
Honestly, and I do share all, and I will be saying the exact same thing even after my book is published and I'm no longer working with them, it's been wonderful. They have been amazing. I actually just got off a call with them an hour ago. We do weekly calls with the whole team and it's so cool to see that. The whole HarperCollins Leadership team is there, they're giving me good ideas about this and that, connecting me with awesome people. Believe me, it's not all sunshine and roses, there's some things I'm like, "Oh my God, how can you guys possibly be moving so slow on some of these decisions and dates?" So there's both sides. It's been great on a lot of areas, painfully slow win other areas of like, can't we just make decisions and move forward?

Because you know me and you, Pat, we come up with an idea, that night it's out there in the world. We're like, "Okay, that didn't work. Next thing." But what they did to me, to answer your question specifically, it was like, "Hey, you might not want to write this book, and we get that, and we're okay with that." So they put me in touch with a bunch of ghost writers to interview and then Celeste actually put me in touch with a couple. Because I considered, I'm like, "Maybe I do have a ghost writer," because I don't consider myself a fantastic writer by any stretch. I've never written a book before, and I wanted to...

Again, to me, this was about getting out of my comfort zone and trying new things like writing a book, going the traditional route instead of self publishing, like I've done on my journals in the past. And I said, "Well, let me just have the conversations. It can't hurt to learn." So I had wonderful interviews, video interviews like you and I are doing right now with some ghost writers, and got to learn their process and how it works and how much it costs. Which by the way, if you're going with a good ghost writer, it is pricey. So I was like, "Whoa, that's a big dollar amount, but hey, if it gets the right message out, it can work." Then at the end of the day, it honestly just came down to me being like, "There's some great options. And maybe my second book, I do go the ghost writer route, who knows, but I'll be open and honest about it if and when I do."

But I said, "This is a book I have to write. Number one, I'm quarantined, I'm not going anywhere. I can only be at my pool so many hours a day. I can only throw the ball to Gus so many times." So I sat down, brother, for two hours, the first two hours of the morning, every morning for eight months. And I calculated 480 writing hours I took well to put the 71,000 words and 273 pages into this book. Excruciating at times? Yes.

Pat:
Well, congratulations on getting it done. I know firsthand just how difficult that can be. I was just curious about what got you going. Did you start off well or did it just take some time for you to get the ball rolling? Technically, you are an author already. With your Freedom Journal and Mastery Journal and such, and I always joked about this, especially with like, Greg Hickman. And I was just like, yeah, John published books with blanks in them, like literally it's just-

John:
One page repeated 99 times.

Pat:
Yeah, exactly. But here you are, this is real book now. Not that the other ones aren't great, they're absolutely valuable. But what was it actually like to sit down and start this process? I want to get into your head a little bit in just perhaps how painful it was at the beginning and what really got you through and get going to write 71,000 words and such? That's a fat book, that's good stuff right there.

John:
This book's a fatty, bro. There's some meat on this bone, fo sho. I got all the dog references now that I'm a dog owner, it's a little crazy. But anyways-

Pat:
It's a little ruff.

John:
A little rough...

Pat:
Yeah, baby.

John:
I just got that. I'm going to use it. Wow, Kate's going to laugh tonight. That is going to be good. So listen, I really went back to that first thing that we talked about here today, which was, I get essentially like the same 10 questions from my audience. They're all amazing questions and they're all incredibly well-hearted, and I want to answer every single one of them, but I can't because there's no time in the world to do something like that. So I was like, "What are those 10 questions essentially?" And I put them down and looked at them, and they were variations, again, of just the core components that people just seem to be missing over and over again about what it takes to become a successful entrepreneur.

So then I said, "Well, what exactly does it take to be a successful entrepreneur?" I know how I did it, but this book isn't going to be about me, I want this book to be about the core foundational principles that make up a successful entrepreneur. And guess what? I've had the privilege and the honor of interviewing over 3,000 successful entrepreneurs. So let me sit down and let me just write out and journal out and just completely brain dump all of the commonalities that I feel like over these thousands of interviews that I've had, these thousands of hours of conversations, what are the commonalities?

And when I really put it down on paper, there's obviously a lot, but when I boiled out the fats and I combined the similar ones, it honestly, Pat, came down to 17 core principles. There were 17 core principles that every single successful entrepreneur that I've interviewed with, that I've been able to have on Entrepreneurs on Fire, that they have in common. And I looked down and I said, "That's the book. These are the 17 chapters." And being a military guy, I'm like, "Okay, let's put these in a chronological order." And I like to backwards plan. So, okay, here's the end goal. This is where we all want to be, uncommonly successful. We want to be financially free.

So we back there, and then we back it up one step at a time, all the way to step one. And then I looked down and I said, "This is the book, 17 chapters. A 17 step-by-step process to financial freedom and fulfillment. Now, I've got to sit down and write this book." And that was the next step.

Pat:
Did you literally write with a keyboard or did you do any voice translation, voice transcribing, or anything like that?

John:
So I thought that was probably going to be my path. I was like, "I'll like dictate it into like audio memo and have somebody take it down. And then I'll see like all those jumbles and I'll fix it up." And that might've worked for me, but I'll never know because at the end of the day, I said, "You know what? I'm just going to sit down and I'm just going to see what it's going to be like to just start pecking away at this keyboard on step one, chapter one. And let's just see how it goes. If it doesn't work, scrap it, throw it in the wastebasket. Then I'll try this audio memo route."

And brother, I sat down, and for two hours I was just engrossed in writing. And I went to the zone, I call it the Zone of Fire, and I just stayed there. And I just wrote and wrote and wrote. And I wrote over like 3,000 words that day, which was much higher than my average. I typically averaged between 500 to 1,000 words every day throughout those eight months. But this day, I wrote 3,000 words. And at the end of that, I read it back over, and I was like, "This is actually really good. This is how I want to do it."

Pat:
That's neat. Did you write in the same spot every day? Do you have a space to write?

John:
You're looking at it, brother. I'm standing up right now at my standing desk, but I sat down at this desk and I pecked away at this keyboard right in this office right here, every single day. Actually, stuff that I meant to tell you when I was on the Income Stream the other day... I'm going to turn my video around real quick. This is a little risky.

Pat:
Okay. Well, describe it for everybody who's listening to the show.

John:
Do you know what that is?

Pat:
I'm looking at some sound waves that are colored with your brand and it looks like they are... I think I remember this. This was gifted to you, I believe, or you created it from an artist who takes sound waves and makes them look really cool. And I think it's your entire first episode. Is it not?

John:
It is. My interview with Pat Flynn, episode one. So right now, brother, I'm looking up and I'm seeing your voice and my voice in these audio waves. And it's been above my desk-

Pat:
That's cool.

John:
- for five years now, since I moved here, I brought that with me everywhere. Episode one, right there. What would Pat do? WWPD.

Pat:
Yeah. That's so cool. Thank you for sharing that. And people can see that in your videos and stuff or wherever you're at most likely. You have some sound waves behind you as well with your "Are you prepared to ignite?" and little banner that you have, which is really cool. So, okay. Book, I think people want to know what's inside. I highly recommend people check it out. I had the honor and privilege of being featured in the book in a particular chapter, I believe it was chapter or step eight, at least, related to content creation, because that's something I'm really good at. And I'm glad you pulled me in for that. Thank you so much, but where can people go check out the book? Where would you like them to go?

John:
Well, you are right, Pat, you are step eight, chapter eight, which is Create Content. And as your listeners know, there's just nobody better in this world at creating content. So there was such a no-brainer for that step to bring you in and just to say, "Pat... " Well, let me step back in for a second and say, I broke every chapter to three sections. So section one of chapter eight as well as all the chapters is, what exactly does creating content mean? How do you do it best? What do I recommend? All this stuff. Chapter two was how I did it in my business, in my life, so you get like a real-world perspective.

And then the section three. So section one, section two, section three of each chapter, I sat down, I said, "Who is the best person that I know that exemplifies this specific step?" And for creating content, obviously, you were the no-brainer. And I brought you in, your contribution was fantastic, obviously, because you're great at creating content. And that was step eight, chapter eight. And I did that for every single chapter. So there's 17 amazing contributors to this, Ramit Sethi, Jeff Walker, Stu McLaren, Russell Brunson, Amy Porterfield, Selena Soo, Jill Stanton.

Just unbelievable top of the top entrepreneurs I asked and brought in. Speaking of ask, I brought Ryan Levesque in to talk about asking questions and doing these other things. Billy Gene to talk about traffic. So I just went to my dream people and I listed - Pat, I had 17 first, 17 backups, and 17 backup-backups. I never even had to go to a single of my first backups. Every person said yes, which was great.

Pat:
Thank you. I feel better. I know I'm not plan B now, which is good.

John:
No, you are not plan B, brother. I don't think you've ever been plan B.

Pat:
So, people are listening the end of April, so it's already been out for a while. If you haven't gotten it yet, why not? Where should they go? Should they support you on Amazon and try to get those rankings up? Or do you have a specific place perhaps on a website you want them to go?

John:
Yeah. So they can do one of two things. I'd love if you just felt comfortable, just go over to Amazon, pick up the book, it's going to be right there. And hopefully, you enjoy it enough to consider leaving a kind rating and review, because as Pat and I know, ratings reviews are so hard to get and so important. So if it's a value to you, that would be an amazing thing to do. And I do have a website where I have some really cool bonuses as well. It's called UncommonSuccessBook.com. So either head over to Amazon, head over to UncommonSuccessBook.com, either place you are going to get your hands on The Common Path to Uncommon Success, which is your 17-step roadmap to financial freedom and fulfillment.

Pat:
Love it. When it comes to marketing and launching the book, I'd love to know what was the plan or what is the plan? What are some things that you're doing to make sure everybody knows about it? Even outside of traditional and what they can offer you, which can be a lot, or sometimes they fail, but from your end, with what you've built, what are the ways that you're maximizing your efforts to help people who want to support you on the big launch day and even after?

John:
So one thing that I've been shouting from the rooftops for a long time now is do things that don't scale. And it's kind of contrarian, some people are just like, "Oh, you should only do things that you can scale and leverage." And I've always been a believer that, listen, it's people that put in the work, it's people that do things that don't scale that, by the way, get to a place where they then can scale and can leverage and can do other things. And I practice what I preach, brother.

So I had my dream 300 of the people that I really was hoping would support this book in the prelaunch and then in the post-launch as well. And instead of just creating a boiler plate video, or just an email and blasting out to those 300, I sat down and put in the work, and I did things that don't scale. I created 300 personalized videos, average length, four minutes each, that's 1200 minutes, that I recorded a video and sent it to every single person via email, personalized. This email was, "Pat Flynn, this is JLD. This is a personal message for you." I'll even like make a comment about maybe the last time we hung out or something.

There's no cut to the next three and a half minutes of something, the whole thing is personal. It's all there, it's one continuous, just one personal video. And it took me weeks to do that, weeks of doing things that don't scale. But guess what? I had an 85 percent response rate on that. And it's still going up because people are still now responding as they're coming back from different, whatever. I can't go back in time, but I'm telling you, my response rate would have been somewhere between 20 to 40 percent had I gone the blast route.

So I am positive that I at least doubled, if not quadrupled, my response rates by doing things that don't scale and by sending a personal video to people that, by the way, I'm friends with, and that I care about and that I've done a lot of things for them in the past, I brought them on my platform to elevate their message and help them share their voice with the world. And so when they saw that I was willing to go the extra step and make something personal for them, it just became a no-brainer for them to go out of their way and support it in the way that made most sense for them.

So doing things that don't scale was huge, something that I consider one of my zones of fire now after doing 3000 interviews. I wasn't good at the beginning, believe me, you can listen to episode one. Pat was great, I wasn't. I'm great at being on podcasts. So bro, just this week, I'm going to be the guest on 54 other podcasts, this week. That's just this week.

Pat:
Gee whiz, dude. That's crazy.

John:
Last week, it was the same.

Pat:
I did the same thing with mine, but it was less than half that, and that was tiring.

John:
It'is tiring, man, I'll tell you. You've got to get into the zone, you've got to clear everything else off of your life and your schedule. It's all that I'm doing. Literally, last week I did 47, the week before I did 52, this week I'm doing 54, and it's a sprint though. Come March 23rd, I'm done, you won't see me on another show for months. I'll be like taking a hiatus, I'm outro.But I'm all-in on this, man. I could not believe in this book more, I could not believe in this message more. I've never spent 48 hours on something in my life, and I did 480 hours writing this book. So I just want to get this message, this common path to uncommon success out to the world.

Pat:
When it came to the reach out that you did with the 8 percent response rate, what kind of support were you getting? I'd love to know the range or the different variances and different ways that people are supporting you so that we can get some ideas to ask for certain things from others too when that time comes.

John:
Yeah, for sure. I'll tell you some interesting things. A year ago if I had done this, I'm positive I would have gotten a lot less of these requests, which was, "Hey, I just launched a podcast six months ago, why don't you come on that?" And it's like, the quarantine people have just been let's launch podcasts. And you know this from your great podcast course, I experienced the same thing, people are just like, "Well, I'm stuck at home." I decided to write a book.

Pat:
Or make a podcast.

John:
Other people are like, "Let's do a podcast." And so it was now, it seems like everybody that by the way, a year ago, didn't, now everybody that I was reaching out to in this top 300 also added a podcast to their repertoire. So that was a huge commonality, like, "Hey John, here's my booking link. I'd love to have you on the show." And I'm like, "Sweet, right up my alley." So I did that. Something that's worked fantastically well that I know you've leveraged a lot. And I've seen you on a few times, and I'm sure you're still are spending some time on it at least, because it can be a huge waste of time if you think correctly. The Clubhouse has been baller.

I've gained some massive rooms, delivered some great value, and then people get to follow you and then your bio can be super detailed with all that stuff, and I'm able to track a lot of sales to Clubhouse. So the Clubhouse has been a huge thing. I'm hosting a lot of rooms, and a lot of these influencers by the way, Pat, that I've been reaching out to have really doubled down on a Clubhouse. So they have massive followings, so they're like, "Hey, how about we host a room, I'll get all my followers in there and you can too." Because I'm at like 14,000 followers so I've got a decent following on Clubhouse. And they're like, "Let's combine it and let's make it happen."

And how Clubhouse is, it's just like, numbers attract numbers, so we might start with 100 people then before you know it, it is four or 500 people, and I'm like, "I can't remember the last time I'd been on a webinar where there was four or 500 people." Those were the glory days that you and I both got to experience back in like '13, '14, '15, but it's been a while since you've been able to get those numbers of people live, and Clubhouse is doing it at a high level. So that's been huge. There's also been things like a lot of people have good IG and Facebook following, so I've been doing a lot of IG and Facebook Lives, just quick little ones like five, 10 minutes, just boom, getting in there because it then lives forever on that page and I can go ahead and share it on my social channels as well.

And something interesting that I'd done, Pat, that you might really get a kick out of and be able to utilize, especially for your show, SPI, is when I know it's going to be a good interview, like when Hal Elrod interviewed me, I actually was like, "Hey, can I record this on my end just to make sure we have a good backup?" And then we did that, he said, yes, of course. And so I recorded it. Interview ended up being fantastic, and then I reached out to him later I'm just like, "Hey Hal, no pressure, this is your show, this is your recording, but what do you think about me releasing this episode on my Entrepreneurs On Fire podcast as a weekend bonus episode?"

"So it'll be after the show goes live on your feed, so obviously it's going to go live on your feed first, then I'm going to release it as a bonus episode on Saturday or Sunday because I'm a five-day a week show right now, Monday through Friday for EO Fire. What do you think about me releasing it as a bonus episode, I will take 30 seconds at the beginning to promote you and whatever you want me to have as a call to action and introduce you to my audience, and then I'll segue to the show so you'll get some great airplay on Entrepreneurs On Fire. Plus, this episode will be played on my feed as well."

So now, a lot of my audience, where I'm interviewing other entrepreneurs on my show about their stuff all the time, of course, but now they get these bonus episodes where I'm being interviewed about the book, and I get to just have them listen to that at a high-quantity level. And those bonus episodes are converting into a lot of sales and pre-orders because those people don't listen to Hal Elrod's podcast. So something to think about, where you can maybe have a couple of bonus spots of your interviews on other shows.

Pat:
I like that. You're also welcome to publish this episode on your feed too if you'd like.

John:
Come on, are you just saying that? I accept.

Pat:
I'm down for that. That's a win for both parties. That makes complete sense.

John:
This is why you're a successful entrepreneur, because you get that so quickly, but believe me, unfortunately, not everybody gets it like that, and there's a scarcity mentality that just exists out there.

Pat:
I just don't see that. You and I are both coming from a place of abundance and I think that's definitely attributed to where we're at today. Question about the book cover, if you go to your Amazon page and if anybody wants to check it out, I noticed that you're not on the cover, and I want to know what conversations, if any, were around that decision because you have a very recognizable face, beautiful rosy cheeks to go along with it, as we always joke about. I always say that to you, we always just joke around about that. Anyway, like your personal brand, I'm curious about the conversation around the cover and why it looks the way it does?

John:
We had a lot of conversations around that, and I've actually personally been always anti-picture and anti-face on podcast logos, on different areas because in my opinion, I think it works really importantly well, for people who have brands, who have recognizable faces, but when I see these people that are just launching new podcasts, for instance, and it's like their face takes up three quarters of the logo and their title is so tiny, I'm like, "Well, people are not going to listen to the podcast because of your face, because they're going to listen to your podcast because it's solving a big problem of theirs, and they can't even read what your title is, they don't even know what problem your podcast is solving."

So I've always really been shouting from the rooftops, get your face off of the logo, let's blow up the title, let's blow up the tagline, let's get people to listen to your podcast. For me, you can look at my logo right here, I know your people that are listening audio only can't see, but it is just a yellow square with black inside, with a microphone on fire that just says Entrepreneurs On Fire. That's all it says, because that brand now means something. Back in the day when I launched in 2012, my title said, or my logo was, "Entrepreneurs On Fire, daily interviews with inspiring entrepreneurs." Because I needed that tagline to really share what the show is about. It wasn't super obvious, so that helped.

But then as my brand started to take off, I could take away that tagline and make it a more beautiful, minimalistic logo that I still use now to this day. And I do agree, at this point, I've been featured on enough shows and spoken from enough stages where people do on some levels recognize my face, but still, what's my brand? I'm an audio-only guy, my podcast has been audio-only for 3,000 plus episodes. I have no YouTube presence, rarely doing things video wise on Instagram or Facebook or anything. And I just said to my Harper Collins publishers when we were having this conversation you're inquiring about, I said, "Listen, my audience knows my voice, they know my brands, but I don't really believe my face is going to add value to this cover."

And I kind of left it at that and I was going to let them come back with what they thought and they were like, "No, we actually, in our research, we agree. We think, let's blow up the cover, let's have as recognizable people read The Common Path to Uncommon Success to draw them in, let's get the tagline in there. Let's get your name, which is important with the host of Entrepreneurs On Fire." I've got a really awesome endorsement by Gary Vaynerchuk at the top, he said, "JLD is the real deal." And then he has a full endorsement, but we couldn't fit that on the cover. And that was the whole conversation around, it was like, "Let's let the title sell itself." Because my audience is going to buy this book whether my face is on it or it's not, they're going to buy it.

Now, this book is a brand play, how do I expand my brand into people who are not currently aware of who John Lee Dumas is?

Pat:
There you go. That's the answer I was looking for, because it's about the positioning of the book and who is this actually for. Your right, your fans are already going to be buying it anyway, although it would be pretty dope if you opened it, and it was like, "Are you ready to ignite?" Right when you open the book.

John:
Like those words came out, like in audio?

Pat:
Yeah. Like those greeting cards that like play audio. That would be pretty sick.

John:
Where were you during my marketing meetings?

Pat:
Oh dude, it's what I'm talking about. You and I are both good friends with Lewis Howes and his books have him on it, and one of his books literally is like a close-up of his face, he's that much on it, but he's coming from a different position, I think it's really smart for him. He's definitely a personal brand with his YouTube channel exploding. So I think it really depends, I think it really depends. Thank you for that insight on that conversation.

John:
Great question.

Pat:
Who is this book for? I'd love to know, if you could pitch this book to the audience and share who is it for it and also who's it not for, I'd love to just get a gist of your thoughts on that before we have some closing conversations about some other things.

John:
Cool. Well, first and foremost, I've really found over a decade of interviewing the world's most successful entrepreneurs that we at the end of the day are all human beings. And that's an obvious statement, but what I mean by that is, at the surface level, we all do want different things, and that's great, we should want different things, like Pat is in the Pokemon right now, I'm not. There's different things that we should be into as human beings. But when we go down six layers to the core of who we are as human beings, I believe, in my opinion, we all want the same thing. And in one word, that one thing is freedom. And to expand upon that, what I mean by freedom is, we want the freedom to wake up every morning and do three things.

We want to do what we want to do, where we want to do it, with whom we want to do it with. That is the freedom that I believe most human beings, if not all human beings, really want in this world, because you have that. You have it, you have life, you have happiness, you have true uncommon success. And so that's what I want for people and that's why I wrote this book, because I know my audience, Fire Nation, and so many other entrepreneurs out there are struggling. And they're struggling with really the core fundamentals of what it takes to become a success. They're really struggling with even step one, Pat, which I won't get into detail about, but I'll just share with you.

Right now, most people are going to die never having even identified what their big idea is. And they're going to die, and they're gone, and that's it. And that's to me so sad that they'll never have even taken the time to uncover their big idea, to live in what I call their zone of fire. And so that's step one, chapter one, let's just get you there to start, to what your big idea is. Not what Pat's big idea is and what my big idea was, that's just people becoming pale, weak imitations of other people they see having success. I'm going to get you to what your big idea is, and then you're going to go forward from there to the other 16 steps, to get to your version of uncommon success, to get to your version of financial freedom and fulfillment.

So if you're a person that truly wants to achieve lifestyle freedom, location freedom, who wants to achieve financial freedom combined with fulfillment, which by the way, not everybody wants, Pat. Some people just want to be filthy rich, no matter what it takes at all costs, I just want money, money, money. And this book is not for those people because I, believe me, have gone to the place where I have what I call enough. If you ask some people like those people I was talking about, like, how much money do you want to make? Their answer's always going to be more. More, I just want more.

Bro. I've been plateaued in my business financially for eight years. It's been a great plateau, it's been $2 million a year for eight years, but you might be like, "Why hasn't your business gone 5, 10, 20 percent up?" I'm like, "Because I have three virtual assistants all based in the Philippines, they are amazing, they've billed me for, one's moving for 12 years, another 10, another 7." They're amazing, and I love them being part of my team, and they're perfect. I don't want to grow to 10 to 20 to 40, which by the way, I brought Amy Porterfield on to talk about building a team because she's a pro, I'm not.

I've built a tiny team, lean mean machine, she's building a huge team, which is functioning incredibly well. But I found what enough is for me, and my enough is getting up every morning, doing what I want, where I want, with whom I want to do it with. And the money's enough, the financial freedom is real. And I have a buddy who you actually know, Pat, lives in Bozeman, Montana, makes $47,000 a year, does exactly what he wants to do every single day, lives well below his means. He is financially free and he is fulfilled. That's uncommon success as well. So if you don't know what enough is, if you don't know what that is for you, if you just always want more and more and you just are after it for the money, that's you.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying this book is not for you because this book shows you what enough is and what life can look like when you're now where I'm at, where I'm working really hard, five days a month, and essentially nothing for 25 days, pure cruise control. Not during book launch mode, I'm doing 54 interviews this week, but that's...

Pat:
You have seasons, right, you have seasons.

John:
My seasons. Come April, the rest of the year, five hard days of work a month, which I love doing, it's work that I love, and then 25 days not for that month. And that's what I've built. And so that's who this book is for, people that want that. And whose this book is not for is for people that just want the money.

Pat:
Thank you, John. What about for those who do want this uncommon success but they feel like they're getting held back from others around them? We live in this world as, perhaps you've heard me describe before, this bucket of crabs. If you have a live bucket of crabs, this is a shout out to Maine, by the way, as you just wait for this bucket of live crabs to have them all crawl out, none of them will because as soon as one tries to crawl out, the rest of them will pull it back down. We always feel like as we try to escape this thing, or as we try to go bigger, or as we try to become successful in our own way, other people who have a different definition or don't want to see others succeed, pull us back down. How do we combat that on this path to uncommon success?

John:
That was me in 2012, brother. I looked around and my average stunk. They weren't evil people, they weren't bad people, but they just were Debbie Downers, they were Don Doolittle's. And I didn't want to be surrounded by those people because I knew there were people out there that I would just resonate with on such a high level. And frankly, that's when I was introduced to your podcast, and Andrew Warner's podcast, and David Siteman Garland's podcast. I started listening to these shows where they were just normal dudes. I hate to say it, Pat, but you're just a normal dude. You're just a cool, normal dude.

Pat:
I'm a normal dude?

John:
And I'm like, "This is a cool normal dude, just hanging out in a spare bedroom, interviewing awesome people and sharing it with the world." And I'm listening to it over and over, same episodes, I was listening to repeat, and I'm learning so much. I can quote some of your earlier episodes like crazy verbatim, Dane Maxwell, I've listened to that episode so many times, over and over again. And what's cool about the memory is, I can go back to like where I was when I listened to that certain part of it, like boom, I'm like, "Whoa." And that's just crazy. And I had to change my five, and you were part of me being able to change my five because now I'm going to sit in on a conversation with Dane Maxwell and Pat Flynn.

And they're part of my five now because these are the people that I'm actually hanging out with the most. I'm hanging out with Pat for a couple hours a day, listening to his podcast and whoever guests he has on who's another awesome person, and my five is elevating, and I'm like, "I want to even take this to the next level." And that's when I had the idea to fill a void that I saw in the podcasting space and launched the first daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs. And that was my in to continue to elevate my five, and I've always looked to do that. We mentioned Greg Hickman earlier, I was in a three-person mastermind with Greg Hickman and Rick Mulready for years, every week we would meet.

And these are three, two other incredible entrepreneurs, and we held each other accountable, and we raised each other's five, and we held each other's feet to the fire. And that's what people that are listening to this need to do. They need to look around just like I did in 2012 and say, "I'm not saying my top five is going to be dead to me tomorrow, but they just can't be my top five. Maybe they're going to be number 6 through 10, and I got to go out and I got to curate and find people who inspire me, whether it'll be virtually in a situation like you and I are doing right now, or in-person, and really making things happen." So that's a huge step. It's actually step six, chapter six in the book, I talk all about either creating or joining a mastermind.

And I brought Jaime Masters, who you know firsthand is incredible about curating and running a mastermind. And she drops unbelievable value in that step and chapter on creating and joining a mastermind.

Pat:
Yeah. She and I have been in a mastermind group together for 11 years now, which is pretty insane. She was the one who brought me together with her and her group, and we've been together ever since. So I completely agree with that. When John says your five, this is referencing a Jim Rome quote, which is, you're the average of the five people you spend most of your time with. And I completely agree with that, and I think that the five doesn't have to be people in your household, they don't have to be people in your neighborhood or that you meet up with in-person, they could be people who you meet with virtually.

All my masterminds are done virtually, or like John was saying, people that you just listen to so that you can connect on a more virtual level, that you can get inspired by them, motivated by them, and have them pave the way for your success too. So this is really great, John, we have 17 steps in the book. You can check it out at UncommonSuccessBook.com.

John:
I knew you'd get there. I knew you were going to get there.

Pat:
Or you can check it out on Amazon, The Common Path to Uncommon Success with John Lee Dumas. John, congratulations on the book. If you want all the steps, obviously go and check it out. Is there going to be an audio version?

John:
I recorded the audio version right where you see me standing right here, every word, I did myself, that was a labor of love.

Pat:
That's cool. Well, check it out on Audible as well. Any final parting words for those who are now inspired in the audience, who are excited about their upcoming path to success?

John:
The final thing I want to share, I'm sure people might be a little tired of quotes by now, but this one is so important to me because it changed everything. And it was a quote I read in 2012 when I was not on a good path, and it was an Albert Einstein quotes that said, "Try not to become a person of success, but rather a person of value." And Pat, I looked in the mirror and I was not being a person of value in any way, shape, or form. I just wasn't doing anything that could really be construed as being a person of value. I was just chasing success in all the wrong places or what I thought was success, getting nowhere, obviously.

And that planted the seed for me to commit to becoming a person of value. I had no idea what that held. Obviously, it turned into this, Entrepreneurs On Fire, but my last thing I want to share with everybody today is just commit, who knows what is going to grow or sprout from this commitment, but just commit to becoming a person of value. Believe me, it works.

Pat:
Thanks, John. I appreciate you. We're going to talk to you for a little bit more in our backstage area for those who are the premium members. So we'll get to that conversation just a minute, but if you're in there, you can look forward to that in the bonus area, more information on that in just a sec, but John, thank you so much. Appreciate you, my friend.

John:
Thank you, brother.

Pat:
Whew. It's always good to have John on the show. I'm really excited to see how his book does because as he does with everything, he goes all-in on it, and he's got the connections now, he's got a little bit of money to go behind it, he's now traditionally published. And you can check out his book, The Common Path to Uncommon Success, which is already out. You can check it out on Amazon, listen to the audio book, you can hear his sweet, sweet voice if you are a fan of his show. And I'm just very supportive of him. I bought several books, gave a lot of them away already, and I look forward to seeing how he does, and recapping with him because that's something we always do.

And that's something that you should try to find too, a friend that you can continue to have conversations with, to learn from each other with. And that's exactly what John is for me and I for him. And I love that between us, and just grateful for you, John, as a friend and a business owner, and for all the inspiration. So hopefully you've enjoyed this conversation listening in as a fly on a wall today between us. And I look forward to serving you in the next episode of the Smart Passive Income Podcast. If you want to get all the show notes and all those fun things, all you have to do is go to SmartPassiveIncome.com/session479. Again, SmartPassiveIncome.com/session479.

And again, check out his book, UncommonSuccessBook.com, or Amazon, Barnes & Noble, all the places. John, congratulations for everything that you've done, including this book now too. So well done, my friend. Thank you all for listening in. I appreciate you. You're awesome. And of course, Team Flynn for the win.

Thanks for listening to the Smart Passive Income Podcast at SmartPassiveIncome.com. I'm your host, Pat Flynn. Sound design and editing by Paul Grigoras. Our senior producer is Sara Jane Hess, our series producer is David Grabowski, and our executive producer is Matt Gartland. The Smart Passive Income Podcast is a production of SPI Media. We'll catch you in the next session.