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SPI 778: Inside a Pat Flynn Coaching Call with Cassie Shawcross

If growing your business were easy, what would it look like? This is a powerful question because many of us tend to overcomplicate things in the beginning. So how do we take the leap and build a brand without getting distracted by things that don’t matter?

I haven’t recorded a coaching call episode like this in a long time—not since the AskPat days! We wanted to bring some of that energy back in today’s session, so listen in as I help Cassie Shawcross of understand her limiting beliefs and use her strengths to uplevel her brand!

Leaving a traditional career to become an entrepreneur is scary. But isn’t staying stuck in jobs we don’t want just as frightening?

In this call, Cassie and I jump in the DeLorean to see what the future might look like for her. You’ll want to listen in because the perspective we gain leads to some inspiring breakthroughs!

This is a great conversation about being open to opportunities and bringing your people together. The impact this can have on your business is immense, so tune in and enjoy!

SPI 778: Inside a Pat Flynn Coaching Call with Cassie Shawcross

Cassie Shawcross: I need to stop saying like, “No don’t give me anything because I can’t handle anymore. Because, you know, I’m not sure of if it’s gonna be successful or not.” It’s like, why am I shooting myself in the foot? How much more time do I need to essentially overthink and waste on things that don’t even matter, that aren’t really going to move the needle in any way, shape, or form? What it’s going to do is sabotage me and keep me from moving forward with what I want to do. It’s just ludicrous.

Pat Flynn: So it’s been a couple of years since we sunset the Ask Pat podcast. That podcast is still available, but after 1200 or 1300 episodes, we decided to kind of push it aside and let it be so that we could focus more on SPI. And it’s been an amazing decision. However, I do miss the coaching calls that I did with audience members who called in, asked for some help, and I could coach them through the process and you could listen in.

So guess what? We’re going to bring some of that back and see how y’all think about it. And today we’re going to be talking with Cassie Shawcross from In fact, how she was selected was based on a survey that we had run. If you’re on the email list, you might’ve seen a survey several months back.

And we decided to reach out to four or five people in that survey and ask them if we could talk about what they need help with right here on SPI, on our Friday episodes. So for the next half hour, you’re going to listen to Cassie talk a little bit more about her business, where she’s at and what she needs help with.

And now that I’m recording this intro, after this episode was recorded, I’ll tell you, there are some major breakthroughs here, breakthroughs that I think are very common for most entrepreneurs, especially if you’re just starting out, or if you’re trying something new. You’re gonna hear a lot of unlocks when I ask Cassie questions.

So there’s a lot of question asking, there’s a lot of scenario building, there’s a lot of climbing into the DeLorean to see how things are like in the future, cause she’s got some decisions to make. And she’s got a very, very big reason why she needs to make them. So you’re going to hear all that in more, but you can check out Cassie Shawcross and her business at Here she is.

Announcer: You’re listening to the Smart Passive Income Podcast, a proud member of the Entrepreneur Podcast Network, a show that’s all about working hard now, so you can sit back and reap the benefits later. And now your host, he owns 10 skateboards and doesn’t ride any of them, Pat Flynn.

Pat Flynn: Cassie, thank you for being here.

If you could just quickly introduce yourself and your business and your words, I’d love to hear a little bit about it. From your perspective, and then I’ll ask questions.

Cassie Shawcross: My name’s Cassie. I have a online crystal boutique where we also provide energy healing with multiple modalities as well. I come from a background working in the medical field and I got really burnt out.

So I had to step away from that, but I missed working with people and kind of helping them move through healing or whatever they needed and a lot of the patients that I see. I noticed that they had such an emotional connection to their issues, and it wasn’t a direct connection. It was, and I always tried to treat the person as a whole, and that’s outside of your scope of practice, so I got in trouble for a lot on that end, a lot, but in my opinion, like I wanted to help these people.

So I’m trying to bridge that without being restricted by the medical restrictions provided by Medicare and Medicaid and whatnot, because they are the driving force behind all medical in America, obviously. So I started this business to try to kind of bridge that gap. And also, you know, really, when I got burned out, and I had to leave and this was pre COVID.

So I had to figure out something to do and I was like really depressed and stressed out so I started getting back into crystals which I had been in it a long long time ago but I got back into it like full force.

Pat Flynn: And now you have this business which is which is great. And you go to a lot of in person events and like conventions and vendor type of places to sell your crystals and such.

And, and you had mentioned in your survey that that was 90 percent of your sales. What’s the other 10 percent on top of that?

Cassie Shawcross: Sometimes I do live sales. Like when I first started, I was doing live sales and, you know, I got a few sales from that. It wasn’t a large amount, but it was, it was fun for me. And I, I’m kind of, a dork.

So, you know, I have fun just being stupid. I love it. Enjoying talking to people and pulling out tarot cards for random people who are watching and just celebrating, you know, their purchase or whatever and the crystals and whatnot. So, yeah.

Pat Flynn: Oh, that’s neat. What I really am hearing is you just care so much about the people that you interact with and so much so that you had to leave what you were doing before because it was restricting you from doing it in a way that you would know would best serve people. And I think that’s just, you know, that’s so necessary for today’s world of businesses to be able to do that and to be able to come from a place of people first. You have that working for you in such a great way. And now it’s a matter of, okay, how can we take the things we’re doing in person at these events and actually turn them into something, maybe online skilled, scalable to help more people.

And if I were to ask you what your. Ultimate goals are, what would you say they are from this point forward? What would you like to see happen.

Cassie Shawcross: Right now? A hundred percent, I would like to be doing this full time and not have to work a full time job. My full time job is just really crummy right now.

Pat Flynn: So all the more reason to get out.

Cassie Shawcross: Yeah. And my business isn’t generating enough revenue or profit for me to go full time with this while also making our bills. So I have to do both and sometimes it gets really overwhelming. But, you know, every time I go to the events and I talk to the different customers that come by the booth, it’s so much fun because I get to interact with them.

I have customers that come by the booth every event that we go to with this one particular group or both groups that we’re with, and they always give me hugs and say hi, and it’s like friendship thing, and it’s, it’s really nice. Cause they’re rooting for me and I’m rooting for them. So it’s, it’s kind of a win win situation.

And that’s one thing I really enjoy. And I always have.

Pat Flynn: I love that. Well, part of what I see is a lot of products that could be sold, right? And they, you kind of have to be in person to do that. And yeah, you have stuff on your website as well, but I know that you had mentioned in your survey that, you know, it’s not really translating to sales, the traffic on the website, it’s not necessarily going into sales.

And, you know, what, what I feel is your superpower is the in person stuff. Or when people see you or feel that energy that comes from you and on a website, it can be very difficult to sort of have that energy come through, you know, so there are a few things I think that we could talk about to help you do that.

Bring the energy closer to the people. Are you exploring any platforms like YouTube or anything like that? getting the name out there and kind of having that be a place to showcase what you have to offer.

Cassie Shawcross: I have a YouTube channel and I started it a while ago, but recently I’ve been trying to post as Amy Porterfield says, consistently, and I’ve been, for the last, I think it was, I started like mid February and I’ve been kind of trying to edit and create the videos and put them out on Wednesdays and send them out to my email list.

I’m not really promoting it too much on social media because I have to do it in batches and it’s like just editing the videos is new for me too. So for a 15 minute video, that takes me three hours of editing.

Pat Flynn: Yeah. You know, it’s, it’s interesting because it’s like, okay, we want to put ourselves out there, but we have to like get in a hole and start editing and do all this stuff.

Like in a, it feels like in a basement sometimes. And it’s like, like, unless I get this done, then nobody’s going to see me doing all this stuff. And it could be, it could be very tough. And, you know, Amy is right for platforms. Consistency is important, but there are some things that are. Coming into my head as far as like, because again, my main goal for you would be, how do we get you in front of a larger group of people and have that real energy from you come out and have you in a joyful moment, which then people can kind of absorb that energy and joyfulness that you have in that moment. And so, you know, I’m imagining that when you are at these events, people are coming up to the booth and you just light up and then they light up and you’re, you know, you’re seeing friends again and, you know, products are perhaps sold during that time.

What would it look like if you brought 20 people in a space and you were able to teach them something. Would you have something to be able to teach them and experience for like two hours, per se, with what you have and like those kinds of things?

Cassie Shawcross: So, at these events, I have people sign up for a raffle, say. And on the raffle sheet that they fill out with their email address and stuff, I have like a couple of questions like, What do you want to learn more about? Is it crystal meanings? Is it crystal grids? Is it how to access your gifts? Or is it something else? And sometimes they’ll mark other or they won’t fill anything out but it’s kind of all over the board.

But I get a lot of people asking me about crystal meanings and I get a lot of people asking me about my grids because I make grids and I, I really love doing grids. It’s a really good way to have a physical tangible thing for when you’re doing your meditation. It’s kind of like a crystal visualization board in essence.

And I get a lot of people asking me questions about that. So at our next event, I was planning on maybe doing a crystal grid class, but it’s hard because at these in person events, you don’t know if anybody’s going to actually come to the seminar. You’re just kind of hoping that someone will show up. I mean, there’s other people that have signed up for my email list that will more than likely go through that event. And I all send everybody out and say, Hey, I’m doing a seminar on this day on crystal grids. If you want to come by, you know, that’d be great. It’s just a matter of like putting it together and getting the language right. And not getting so up on my head, trying to make it perfect and make it make sense for everyone or to like drone on and be so professor ish that I get like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know?

Pat Flynn: Yeah. And then it doesn’t sound like you anymore, you know?

Cassie Shawcross: Yeah, no.

Pat Flynn: My best advice for any of this stuff moving forward is if this were easy, what would it look like? Right? And so this, this reduces the over complication that all of us do with the stuff that we’re doing for the first time. We always overcomplicate because if we just kind of get to the bare bones.

of what we’re trying to say, then we can just probably say in a couple sentences. And I have, I have a vision for you to run a class in person, 25 people. And it’s not at one of these events. It’s, it’s separate. It’s your own thing that you put together. Maybe you work with somebody who happens to have a space or you talk to somebody local who has a area of a library or wherever, you know, you could probably find it again.

If the question is, if it were easy, what would it look like? You could probably find an answer to an easy spot that you could host 20 people. And you bring together and maybe you do the grid teaching or maybe it’s an hour of grid and an hour of crystal meaning And you’re kind of just doing a workshop in person and you’re there with them and you’re able to answer their question. They’re there for you and you’re there for them And I imagine that there could be some really neat energy in the room and you could probably even charge a small amount of money to bring people in that space just so that there’s a commitment and it’s, you know, you can even, okay, again, if this were easy, what would it look like?

I would set up a ticket on and that would just tell people where to go and it would charge them 20 to spend two hours with me and I’ll teach them this and this. When it comes to the YouTube stuff, if, if that were easy, what would it look like? You would just, maybe record something you are already doing and then take snippets from that you see where I’m going that to our workshop that you’re recording And you can have that real Cassie interaction with people in person recorded in the same moments that you’re doing it. And now you have all kinds of parts from it that you can pull away You can take clips from that and say to the camera on YouTube here in this next clip I want to share with you something that I taught one of my my event students who came in and notice how I teach this, this, and this, and then you play the clip and then you come back and you teach.

So you can actually use that as like interweave it in the content. So there’s still some, you know, two camera interaction with the YouTube audience. Most of the video is already edited because it’s just the recording, you know, in person that you did there. And guess what? It would also show people that you run these little workshops and events, and you could have people sign up for when the next ones could happen.

So I’m just trying to build some sort of flywheel and sort of a system that would make it easy for you to do what I hear that you love to do best, which is get in front of people, help you accomplish the YouTube goals and staying consistent without feeling like it’s an additional thing and just help you get the name or C or whatever letter we’re on, help you get your name out there.

So. I’m curious to hear your reaction to this. You could be excited, but you could also feel butterflies. I’d love to hear what you, what you think of this idea.

Cassie Shawcross: I feel like I’m going to vomit. I’m just kidding.

Pat Flynn: No, I mean, tell me, tell me more.

Cassie Shawcross: Well, it’s funny that you say this because I’ve been thinking about this for a while.

And I really reached out to different events and event venues where, you know, I could rent out and like, see if anybody would bite. But it’s like, that nagging, what if nobody does, and I’m just, I rented this $500 room, and nobody shows up, or nobody wants to do it, and it’s like, I don’t know if I could handle that kind of disappointment right now, but at the same time, I have so much fun being in front of people that it’s, I want to do it, but I’m scared.

Pat Flynn: What would it look like if five years down the road, you didn’t try to see if it worked? How would you feel if you looked back and you were like, well, I didn’t even try.

Cassie Shawcross: You just had to go there, didn’t you?

Pat Flynn: I did. I’m sorry. I, I know the patterns cause this, again, you’re not alone in this and I am myself somebody who’s thought the same exact thing. So it’s like, I would much rather live a life full of oh wells than what ifs.

Cassie Shawcross: That is a very good point because I don’t like the what if things. I mean, I already have a few under my belt, obviously, but you know, it’s like, I can’t keep, it’s like the definition of an insanity, keep doing the same thing and expect different results.

It doesn’t happen.

Pat Flynn: Exactly, right? It’s cliche because it’s true.

Cassie Shawcross: Yes, it’s very true. I think, you know, even if just two people showed up at first, you know, eventually it would start to grow a bit, I think. The more that people, you know, got to know me. And that’s why I started the YouTube channel. So that people could get to know me a little bit more.

And maybe once I do start promoting that or saying I have this going on, the more people will show up and, you know, be excited about it. I love throwing events. I mean, It’s insane how much stress goes in, I mean, you know, cause you do the conventions with the Pokemon cards, which is amazing, but it’s so much work.

But at the end of the day to hear people say, Oh my God, it was so much fun. And I blah, blah, blah, blah. It’s like, yeah, that’s like the best feeling in the world.

Pat Flynn: Absolutely.

Cassie Shawcross: Especially when they’re getting, you know, they’re feeling enlightened, they’re feeling happy, they’re feeling joyful, it’s like a highlight of their week, that’s like the best thing in the world.

Pat Flynn: And that’ll be the highlight of your week, as well. A few things, number one, you’d mentioned, even if there were two people there, it would be worth it. It would be worth it for a couple of reasons. Number one, if you’re recording it, then it’s still going to be valuable for the YouTubes and it would help solve that problem.

But number two, what would it look like to find two people before you even think about a space or nothing? Just, you know, just find two people and say, Hey, I’m thinking about doing a little two hour workshop. If I put it on, would you come and you get, get two people to say, yes, that’s your validation. And then you do it.

And then obviously there could be more. But the other thing is you could even pre sell this, right? And say, Hey, we’re going to do this at this venue. I need at least five people to be able to do it.

Cassie Shawcross: And if you kind of like a pre sale type, exactly.

Pat Flynn: And if we don’t get five people, I’ll refund your money.

You know, we’ll make sure to give it back to you. But I think that you could probably. Manually ask people to come and they’d be stoked to get the invite I’d love to invite you to come to my first workshop if you think about it that way It’s like well, yeah on the receiving end of that i’d feel special to get that invite I’d want to be a part of this and support you because we’ve built a relationship together kind of thing so again, if this were easy, what would it look like?

You would know you have people who are ready to come before you even set it up So have that be the guiding question with all of this with okay, and then you get you’re gonna get like 10 people if not more this is typically what happens because you’ve opened up the doors and now things are able to come in and then you’re going to freak out just like I would and go, Oh my gosh, now I got to do this thing.

Now I got to, I got to build a two hour workshop. Okay. If this were easy, what would it look like? Again, just have that be the guide moving forward. And, You’re going to be amazed at what this will open up, you know, even if it’s still quote unquote on the side, it still at least provide some cushion as things get figured out on the other sort of full time thing, it might make it more manageable, even knowing that you have these amazing interactions that you know are going to be happening soon, and it could grow and it could it can expand.

The other thing I want to just point out share before we finish is the idea of partnerships. There could be some amazing businesses out there already, or people who have their own specialties, and you might be able to combine forces. There might be a local yoga shop or something that would love to host something like this for their members, and they could potentially pay you a certain amount of money to offer something for their members. I mean, there’s, you can create anything. And as long as you work with somebody who’s in it for the same reasons to help people, then you can come up with something neat potentially. So just wanted to throw that out there as well.

Cassie Shawcross: That’s interesting. Cause I’ve networked with quite a few different business owners who also do classes and stuff.

Just at the last event, I met with a woman who has her own shop in Denver, and she was like, yeah, come by, we’ll do a class. We’ll chit chat. Maybe you could do a class or you could rent out my space for services. And I’m like, I need to quit, you know, dragging my feet or sitting on the what ifs or what could, in a negative context.

Pat Flynn: Try it once, like, with that person, I mean, it’s funny that that already, opportunity’s there, so.

Cassie Shawcross: Well, I had another gal who wanted to do some consignment with me, but I went to meet with her and the whole situation just was shady. Yeah. And it kind of made me kind of like, leery of like, okay, maybe I don’t need to do that, maybe I just need to, you know, do this myself, but, you know, there’s so many other people out there, I’m like, I’m not doing anything with her, because, Instead of meeting with me, which I drove 45 minutes on my way to meet with her, and she left her place of business to go charge her car to Zoom with me.

I was not happy. So, we’re not doing business with her. But, you know, there’s other people that I’ve met that have been really amazing and open, and you know, there’s potential there. I just need to, like, I don’t know, be a little bit proactive. Proactive, yeah. More positive.

Pat Flynn: Yeah. I mean, first of all, great job, like listening to your gut with that person.

Like that’s so important because it’s so easy just to go business opportunity. I’ll say yes to anything and you know, get into shady, whatever. So again, your heart’s in the right place. Your soul is in the right place. Reach back out to this woman who you mentioned earlier, who literally offered some of the space for you and go, Hey, let’s pick a date and try it once.

And I’m here to help you and, you know, I’m grateful that you’re here to help me. And if it’s just a one time thing there, then that’s, then it’s just a one time thing there, but it could also turn into something regular or something. I mean, there’s going to be things that happen when you put yourself out there like that, that you can’t even think about right now.

Cassie Shawcross: Yeah.

Pat Flynn: Just the world has this amazing way of, of letting things happen to those who let things happen. Why are you laughing?

Cassie Shawcross: Yeah. I’m laughing because I was thinking about that this weekend at the event and I’m like I need to stop saying you know having this wall like no don’t give me anything cuz I can’t handle anymore because you know, I’m not sure of if it’s gonna be successful or not It’s like why am I shooting myself in the foot and saying no door.

I don’t want you to open for me. Okay? Just hold on here. Let me think about this. It’s like, how much more time do I need to essentially overthink and waste on thinking about things that don’t even matter, that aren’t really going to move the needle in any way, shape, or form? What it’s going to do is sabotage me and keep me from moving forward with what I want to do.

It’s just ludicrous,

Pat Flynn: Yeah. It’s so easy to see that on the other side of it or when somebody else points it out, but when you’re in it, it’s hard, you know, so I don’t blame you and you shouldn’t blame yourself. With hopefully now unplugging from the matrix, we can see, okay, here, here’s what I need to do.

And the last thing I’ll share here is we either need to be drawn so deeply to the next thing or where you’re going, that that moves us or we have to be so wanting to get away from the thing that is here that we get propelled forward. And to me it sounds like we could do both. We really want this new thing and we have this thing that we’re doing right now that just sucks.

That’s going to drive the decision to do these uncomfortable things. You have to take a step this way because it could be the step away from this thing and and that is worth the risk of maybe another no. It’s worth the risk of maybe this thing doesn’t work out the way we want it to because it’s all signals that this thing here is not for me.

And even if it’s a fail, it is worth doing because you’re signaling to yourself, your own mental, that I don’t want to be here anymore. And, of course, the more of those that you do, the more opportunities will open up and I see some great things coming your way.

Cassie Shawcross: Well, your book has been a huge help.

Pat Flynn: Thank you.

Cassie Shawcross: Superfans is amazing, so thank you for that.

Pat Flynn: Sounds like you’ve built some as well.

Cassie Shawcross: I didn’t even know that I did Cuz I was really shocked.

Pat Flynn: So those are the people you reach out to and say hey, by the way I have a workshop that I’m thinking of putting on if I put it on and I charged 20, what do you think you’d come. You you might have some people who would say you could charge 200 and I would be there So do that have fun make it easy if this were easy, what would it look like?

That’s your guide.

Cassie Shawcross: If this were easy, what would it look like? Yeah, no, I, I like that. I don’t think in that context very often. It’s more along the lines, which I’m sure a lot of people can relate to is, you know, if I do this, how much work am I going to have to, how much am I going to sacrifice to make this happen?

And how much stress am I going to be under instead of if I did this thing, how easy would it be? And, you know, how much fun could it be? You know, stuff like that.

Pat Flynn: So, yeah. Amen. Cassie, I hope this was helpful for you. I know coming in, you were a little scared and timid with what was going to happen, but I hope it was worth your time.

Cassie Shawcross: No, it was, I really appreciate you reaching out to me and for winning and, you know, making me a part of this, so I really appreciate it. And if, if I do end up on your podcast or one of your, your shows, then I appreciate that too. And I hope my situation might help someone else.

Pat Flynn: So I think it would. If you wanted to share with everybody where they can go to check out your website and all that you have going on, where would you want them to go?

Cassie Shawcross: So you could check out my website. It’s

Pat Flynn: Amazing. Cassie, keep up the good work and I’ll catch up with you soon.

Cassie Shawcross: Thanks Pat so much. You have a great day.

Pat Flynn: You too.

All right. I hope you enjoy that episode. It was so great to get back into the discussions that are happening with the audience members and having you come sit in on them.

I mean, these kinds of discussions are happening all the time inside of SPI Pro, inside of the DMs and conversations with people at events, but to record and sit down and speak with Cassie and share that with you. She was very Gracious with allowing us to share this with you. So definitely thank you, Cassie and best of luck to you.

Again, you can check her and her business out at And after we hung up, I told her that I’m going to be checking in with her in a couple of months. So how’s that for accountability? Speaking of accountability, that’s the kind of thing that you can get inside of SPI Pro or within our All Access Pass.

When you join up with other people, you can’t help, but feel motivated and even a little bit of positive peer pressure to get things done. So if you’d like to check those out, you can find your people at And let’s do this together.

And again, I hope you enjoyed this episode. Thank you so much. And I look forward to a few more of these for you very, very soon. So hit subscribe so you don’t miss it. Cheers.

Thank you so much for listening to the Smart Passive Income podcast at I’m your host, Pat Flynn. Sound editing by Duncan Brown. Our senior producer is David Grabowski, and our executive producer is Matt Gartland. The Smart Passive Income Podcast is a production of SPI Media, and a proud member of the Entrepreneur Podcast Network. Catch you next week!

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