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SPI 731: How to Make Money with Email Marketing (By Just Being You) with Liz Wilcox

When you package the information your audience wants with your unique personality, it’s a winning formula. Bringing relatability and character to your work is the number one way to stand out and succeed online today!

Sure, “just be yourself” is advice that’s thrown around all the time. But how do you actually apply it in your business for fantastic results?

In today’s chat with Liz Wilcox, witness the full power of sharing valuable knowledge with a heavy dose of personality. Not only is she The Fresh Princess of Email Marketing, but her ’90s pop culture obsession makes learning from her incredibly entertaining.

We dive into everything from being more relatable to mastering your email list, and Liz walks us through the steps of her Staircase framework for transitioning followers to customers. She also shares her twenty-minute newsletter blueprint for writing engaging and effective emails fast. We get into the best lead magnets for attracting new subscribers, the common mistakes to avoid, and, of course, a solid bit of NSYNC nostalgia.

Don’t miss out — join me for this fun and impactful conversation with Liz!

Today’s Guest

Liz Wilcox

The Fresh Princess of Email Marketing, Liz Wilcox is an Email Strategist and Keynote Speaker showing small businesses how to build online relationships and make real money with emails. She’s best known for selling a blog, turning a $9 offer into multiple six-figures (without ads), and helping you untangle the email “knot” with her simple framework, the Email Staircase. She loves the 90s, headbands, and the beach.

You’ll Learn


SPI 731 How to Make Money with Email Marketing (By Just Being You) with Liz Wilcox

Liz Wilcox: I personally don’t like storytelling and email. It’s a newsletter, not a novel. When we try to tell stories, suddenly, our 10th grade English teacher is behind us saying, don’t forget the beginning, the middle, and the end. And don’t you dare say anything that you didn’t say in the first sentence, right?

And so, instead of trying to write a story, just try to be relatable. And no, I didn’t say be interesting. Being interesting is really, really hard. Being relatable is super easy.

Pat Flynn: One of the best things that you can do right now online is to bring relatability to what it is that you’re doing. And if you combine the information that you’re sharing to help your audience achieve a goal with relatability and personality, I mean it’s a winning formula. What’s really interesting is today we’re going to talk about email and bringing your personality into email today with Liz Wilcox.

Liz Wilcox, you can find her at She specializes in helping people make money from their email lists and you’ll see right away. Right at the top of the show, you get a sense of her personality. In fact, if you go to her website, you’ll get a sense of that as well. And we do talk a little bit about that too.

Relatability, personalization, those kinds of things are what is winning online today. And I’m so happy to bring Liz on. This is Smart Passive Income session 731. And I hope you enjoy this conversation about something that is usually dry and boring. And you’ll get to hear how interesting and amazing Liz is and how fun email and how easy email can be.

I’ve talked about it for years now. And if you haven’t yet gotten on the email is one of the most important things that you can do train. Well, maybe it’s because you need to hear from somebody else. So here is that somebody else. Liz Wilcox,

Announcer: You’re listening to the Smart Passive Income Podcast, a proud member of the Entrepreneur Podcast Network, a show that’s all about working hard now, so you can sit back and reap the benefits later. And now your host, he finally started watching one piece and is only 150 episodes in out of a thousand.

Pat Flynn: Liz, welcome to the SPI podcast. Thank you so much for being here today.

Liz Wilcox: Oh my gosh, are you kidding? Kids, I finally made it.

Pat Flynn: You finally made it. You know, for those of you who are listening and can’t see right now, I just have to describe. When we asked you to fill out your bio, you said, you know, you love the beach and also everything 90s.

And then as soon as we got on video, I was like, yep, the 90s thing definitely comes through. I see an NSYNC poster and all these other things back there. You even have the headband on with the earrings, Chris Kirkpatrick, everything. I love it. What, what is it about the 90s that you just enjoy so much?

Liz Wilcox: It’s fun. It’s nostalgic. I was born in 1988. So. In NSYNC and, you know, Survivor and all of that back in the day stuff just takes me, you know, being a kid is so hard. And so those were kind of my escape. So when I did, this is actually my third business. So when I decided to start my own personal brand, I was like, I’m bringing all the fun with me.

And so I just love that every day I get to come to work and not only like do the thing I love, but live in nostalgia.

Pat Flynn: I love it. I think that’s a great example for just being you, especially when it comes to a personal brand. I mean, you want to attract the people that like you for you. How comfortable were you putting that into your personal brand?

All the 90s stuff and everything, you know, NSYNC, et cetera. Was there any worry of, well, I might be pushing people away. They might think I’m strange or weird or anything like that.

Liz Wilcox: Well, people are going to think that anyway, I think. But like I said, this is not my first business. And in my first business, I cater to men in their 60s.

If you can’t tell by the sound of my voice. I’m not a man in my sixties. And so in that business, yes, I was like, they don’t care about NSYNC. Maybe we’ll talk about Aerosmith and ACDC. Right. And so when I sold that business and shout out to one of Pat’s episodes, I can’t remember the number, but it was talking about how jazzed are you for your customer wins.

And I just realized in that business, I wasn’t as jazzed about my customer wins because I wasn’t even being myself. I was catering to the customer in spite of myself. So when I launched LizWilcox.Com, I said, you know what, the right people are going to like me because I’m going to just be myself and attract the right people and the wrong people will not even join the list.

And that’s great because I can be as comfortable as I want to be.

Pat Flynn: Absolutely. And especially for something like email, which is typically kind of dry, typically kind of boring and scary. You’re making it fun and exciting. So we’ll definitely get to the email stuff. And I know you have strategies. You’ve helped loads of people with their funnels and everything.

But I’d love to go back a little bit further. You had mentioned a position where you were helping sixty year old men. What were you doing there exactly? And sort of what did you learn in that era of your life?

Liz Wilcox: I was an RV travel blogger. I had bought an RV. I started Googling how to take care of it. And I thought, wow, people travel in these things.

This has a wheel and a steering wheel. I should go places. And so very, I don’t know, with naivety, I started an RV travel blog before I even started traveling. I realized the majority of the audience, yeah, were older men, you know. Half retired, or the kids are going off to college, and then I, you know, listen to amazing podcasts like this, where they said, you know, I know for one mistake, I wish I would have taken my email list more seriously.

So I got really, really good at emailing these people. But unlike what Pat said, I had no idea email was dry or boring. If you can’t tell by now, I’m neither dry nor boring. So I was just myself. I was just Hey, I’m talking to my grandpa or you know, my friend’s uncle or whatever and that’s just how I started with the email and I took off my you guys my very first book or from a very first digital product was a book about poop It was called tales from the black tank. The black tank is where your sewage goes. And I was having such a crappy time in my RV trying to renovate it that I thought Man, it can’t all be like Instagram, you know, hashtags, rainbows and butterflies.

There have to be other people that are struggling with this. So I, I wrote a book about, you know, funny RV stories, crappy RV tales, and it really took off in the space. That’s so cool. Yeah, thank you. Before I knew it, I had this email list. I was the RV poop lady. And I thought, Oh, wow, what am I doing that other people, how am I selling a book about poop?

And I thought, Oh, it’s email marketing. I’m really good at that thing.

Pat Flynn: That’s so funny. So the RV poop lady, are you still known as that in that world? Or have you been a little far removed from that? How long ago was that?

Liz Wilcox: That was about three years ago. I have since sold that business again. I realized I was no longer jazzed about it.

So I sold that business. I had a second business with some partners that was also RV related. I got bought out of that company and I just realized. Y’all, I grew up really, really poor, and when I realized that, you know, people weren’t getting email the way that I was getting it, I said, okay, you know, enough with the poop stories.

I need to take this seriously. I need to teach people what I know about email, because I’m actually really good at it.

Pat Flynn: I mean, if you could sell people a book about poop, you could probably sell anything, at this point.

Liz Wilcox: Correct. Well, let’s asterisk that. Like, if you’re listening to this and you’re thinking, oh my gosh, you know, my product, it’s not good enough yet, or it doesn’t give enough value, there’s not a big enough transformation.

I was just… Selling this crappy RV story book, right? It had the word crappy in the title. I guarantee you your product is more useful than the one that I sold.

Pat Flynn: Oh, well, to give you some credit, I’m sure it was entertaining. And you know, for the RV community, it’s like, one of those things that gets passed around and people enjoy, so you’re giving people good times.

You’re giving people an escape, which, you know, I want to make sure you get credit for that. But let’s go to what you said as far as like what you get an email that others aren’t getting in a couple sentences or an answer. What’s the way that we should be approaching email to be successful like you’ve been.

Liz Wilcox: Yeah, so I always tell people I’m a two step chick, if it takes three steps I’m out.

I have a lot of responsibility in my personal life. So in my business, especially when I was traveling full time with a toddler I had to keep things really really simple. So with email the biggest mistake I see is yeah like how can I tell stories? How can I you know, make this interesting for people? I wasn’t trying to be interesting I was just trying to connect with the people on my email list. So with email, I just follow something I call the email staircase.

First, you have a follower, you get them on your list, you turn them into a friend, someone that can relate to you in regards to your niche. And once you have a list full of friends, you can turn them into a customer. So follower, friend, customer, easy peasy.

Pat Flynn: I like that. So two steps, like you said, after they’re on, what would be a way to relate to a person who just joins in your email list?

They’re kind of maybe there because you have a lead magnet that’s related to a problem that they had. And, you know, that’s the solution. But how do you keep them? Opening their emails and feeling like you’re a person more than just that solution. How, how do you go about doing that via email?

Liz Wilcox: In your welcome sequence, I highly advise you to write in a way that shares your personality, your vision for your potential customer, and a little bit of your values. So, your personality, obviously, Pat, right off the bat, you can’t see Liz, but holy crap, she’s got NSYNC, she’s got this headband, she has a look. Look her up, right? So, obviously, you don’t have to have a Liz Wilcox personality to have a personality. There’s something about you that sets people apart.

There’s a reason why you listen to Smart Passive Income versus another podcast. There’s something about Pat that you like, right? And so think about your personality and this can be really surface level, you know, something that you drink or pop culture, something that you love from the past.

Your vision, I like to think of it as if someone is walking across the stage. of, you know, Liz Willcox University, Pat Flynn University, what is that degree you’re handing them? What is that vision that you have for your perfect customer? For me, it’s make money with email. I don’t care about your social media. I’m going to say this, but I don’t care about your podcast.

I don’t care about anything. All I care about is that you make money with email by the end of our relationship. So what is that vision? And then, of course, your values. Now we have, live in this amazing market right now where people want to buy from other people. We’re tired of, you know, giant corporations lying to us and, you know, spending millions on millions of dollars at the Super Bowl to prove to us that they’re real people, you know, they’re not, I’m not going to get into that.

But you as this one person show, or maybe you have a small team, you have this advantage against those other giant corporations to say like, hey, these are my values, one of mine, is inclusivity, and another is accessibility. And so in my welcome sequence, I say, Hey, I’ve got this $9 membership. It’s 9 not because it’s garbage, but because I value everyone.

I want everyone in on this email game. And I say that right off the get go because I want people, the right people that align. If you’re a high ticket coach, and you have other values, you’re probably gonna unsubscribe. And that’s a good thing.

Pat Flynn: So at $9, what is it exactly that you’re offering this membership?

Liz Wilcox: So my membership is an email template. It’s a newsletter template. I specialize in writing newsletters. And I realized, you know, like, hey, when I do this for clients, it costs way more money than when I started out, I could ever afford. And so I write a weekly newsletter template, Mad Libs style delivered straight to your inbox, nine bucks a month.

Pat Flynn: Nice. You know, newsletters is something that has been around for a while and I feel like they dropped off and people weren’t really appreciating them. It’s like, no, let’s make sure we include a lead magnet and lead magnets are still great. And I do want to talk to you about that, but I feel like newsletters are on the comeback and I think there’s a lot of companies that have helped make that.

So Substack being one of them, ConvertKit coming on that board as well. And people really understanding that, yeah, like I get a Morning Brew message every morning, you know, it’s, it’s sort of like news, but business specific and I find a ton of value in that. And I actually look forward to that email. I never thought I could look forward to an email until recently.

And now this is how we’re creating the Unstuck newsletter to create emails that help people get unstuck, but hopefully something they can look forward to. How do you get your subscribers to look forward to the information you’re going to send them to the newsletter digest and the things that they’re subscribed to, right?

It’s one thing to get them excited in the beginning, but how do you and to advise that we keep them excited for the future and to keep opening those emails down the road.

Liz Wilcox: Yeah. So remember in the email staircase, I say you take this follower once they get on your email list, you turn them into a friend.

So in order to keep them engaged, you know, let’s just make friends. Let’s talk to someone who is also interested and the same thing that you’re interested in. How do you make a friend? Just three things. Number one, invest in them. Show that you are invested. No one is going to invest into you if they don’t believe you’re invested first.

So sharing things like, you know, I believe in this vision for you, right? Refer back to your vision often, you know, I want you to make money with email. You know, I just spent two hours on a webinar learning about what the heck is up with open rants lately. That’s so you can have this knowledge too, right?

I’m sharing that I’m invested in the vision for them also show that you’re invested in your business. I don’t care if you are B2B or like business to consumer, you’re some sort of content creator. Maybe you have a Pokemon YouTube channel, right? That’s still work sharing how invested you are in the business.

So back when I had my RV travel blog, you would think, Oh, these guys in their 60s, they don’t care about Liz’s traffic or how many email subscribers, but they really do. They wanted to see me grow as much as I wanted to see them get on the road full time. So I would say, Hey, this month, I have a goal of writing four blog posts for you and making one YouTube video.

That way they know, like, I’m invested. They didn’t just join some random list. This is a person that is actively invested in growing the channel and making sure that they have everything they need. So that’s the first thing. The second thing… It’s just to share in a relatable way. I know a lot of email marketers might have come on this show today and said, tell us stories.

I personally don’t like storytelling and email. It’s a newsletter, not a novel. When we try to tell stories, it can get, we get in our heads, suddenly our 10th grade English teacher is behind us saying, don’t forget the beginning, the middle, and the end, and don’t you dare say anything that you didn’t say in the first sentence, right?

And so, instead of trying to write a story, just try to be relatable. And no, I didn’t say be interesting. Being interesting is really, really hard. Being relatable is super easy. Guys, before we hit record on this, I was trying to get my lighting right because they told me to be camera ready. And so I plugged in a lamp behind me and all my circuits blew in my house.

I had no electricity and I’m scrambling, scrambling, scrambling. And, you know. Spoiler alert, I made it. But, I mean, if I just tell you like, hey, I blew my electricity, that’s, you know, something I can share in two to three sentences. Even just now, I told that in a few, you know, like 30 seconds, right? It’s not this big old story, but you got a lot out of it, and it’s totally relatable.

And the third thing is just to stay top of mind. And this is where people start to cringe. Pat mentioned, oh, I get this daily newsletter. I’m not telling you to email daily. But when you actually do the first two things right, when you share in a reliable way, when you show you’re invested, it’s actually really easy to stay top of mind.

I actually took the entire summer off. I took over 90 days off consecutively and barely lost any subscribers when I came back. Sure, I had newsletters going out that I had pre written, but I was absent completely from social media. And that was I, you know, people were happy to see me back because I had done those first two things really, really correctly.

So to sum that up, to, you know, make sure you got all that, you know, just show you’re invested, share in a relatable way and stay top of mind and that’s going to get your emails opened over and over again.

Pat Flynn: I love that Liz. That’s a great framework for, for that. Real quick, where did you go or what did you do in those 90 days?

I’m curious.

Liz Wilcox: I can’t tell. No, I’m joking. I just went completely off grid. I just really, I just needed a break. And also one of my personal definitions of success is to show people what’s possible. So I just wanted to try for myself to show people like, Hey, you don’t have to take a whole summer off, but surely, you know, you can have the weekends.

Pat Flynn: Yeah. That’s great. And I love that when I hear other entrepreneurs spending time on themselves, Michael Hyatt, somebody who does that, he takes a month long sabbatical every single year. Year and I have been doing a lot more to try to give myself some space and breathing room as well, and it does work wonders. It’s like, you’re back into it and you wanted to, you know, just bringing that energy is really great.

I know a lot of people worry about email because it’s writing and writing can be tough. And how would you recommend a person approach the writing part of email? I know templates and the things that you have to offer can make that easy, especially like the Mad Libs style stuff. But as far as voicing and as far as writing style, what would be the best way to continue on that, you know, build a friend sort of framework because I’ve seen a lot of people start email lists and newsletters.

And it’s like, like you said, writing for their English class back in 10th grade, right? And it’s, I don’t think it’s supposed to be like that. How would you recommend or what would be the framework for everybody listening from your perspective, Liz?

Liz Wilcox: Yeah, surprise, surprise, Liz Wilcox has another framework for you.

I call it the 20 minute newsletter. So I always say, again, you know, it’s a newsletter, not a novel. If it takes you more than 20 minutes, you’re probably doing it wrong. 20 minutes to create. Yeah. Create your newsletter. You can write it in 20 minutes. It really is simple. Again, we’re trying to, you know, make friends in our inbox.

Friends don’t want a novel all the time. So I say, you know, just a quick greeting and then that personal update. This is where we can show we’re invested. Or, you know, become relatable and a personal update is just two to three sentences about something you did since the last time you emailed. Hey, you know, I was on this amazing podcast or, you know, I just took my dog for a walk.

My fridge isn’t working. There’s a hurricane coming. Those are all one sentence, but they make you relatable. They start the conversation and then just segue into whatever content it is you have for them that day. And by segue, I mean look at your keyboard. Find that caps lock and write anyway, dot, dot, dot.

What I really wanted to talk to you about today is my new podcast episode with Liz Wilcox. It’s the best one I’ve ever had on email. Or, you know, I just wrote this new blog post or, you know, I’m coming to Toronto next week. Will you be there? You know, whatever kind of content, the thing you really wish you could just get to already, just get to that.

And then. I advise you to say thanks, you know, say, Hey, I’m so grateful. You’re on this email list or, you know, thanks for reading today. It means a lot to me. Show them how important the email is to you. Show gratitude and then get the heck out of there.

Pat Flynn: Love it. How Do we get a person to sign up to our email list in the first place?

What are your favorite strategies for doing so?

Liz Wilcox: My favorite strategy personally is podcasts. I know I have a solid framework. I’ve had a speaking coach before. I have fun graphics if needed. And so that’s my favorite thing. As far as my favorite thing for you? I don’t know. Think about your, again, your personality.

If you are terrified of public speaking, I probably don’t recommend starting with podcasting. Think about your strength. If you’re a writer, maybe guest blog posts or link swaps is a great one. So if you’ve got a small email list, find someone else who has a small email list. Say, hey, I’ll give you my freebie if you’ll give me yours.

And let’s, you know, swap. Put that link in your email. I’ll put your link in my email and we’ll share each other’s audiences. That’s probably the fastest way to just get going. And if you’re brand new to email, just post on your social media. Hey, I just started this Pokemon channel. You know, let’s, I’m really excited about it.

Can you sign up for this list? Or do you know somebody who, you know, needs to learn more about Pokemon? Check it out over here. But really, there are so many, I recommend probably just, you know, setting a ten minute Google timer, typing in list building strategies, and your gut is going to tell you which one is the best.

Pat Flynn: Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, there’s, like with anything, hundreds of different ways to go about it, but if you keep swapping between one and another, and you don’t give it time, and you don’t invest in it, and you’re not excited about it, well then it’s definitely not going to work. And so I’m on your media page now, because It’s not a podcast that you have that you’re talking about.

It’s podcasts that you’re on, similar to how you’re on this podcast today. Is that correct?

Liz Wilcox: That’s correct. You guys, I have been on almost 300 podcasts in the last two and a half years. And to be honest, I didn’t even tell Pat this. This is my dream podcast. I, when I said I made it, I finally made it.

Pat Flynn: Thank you, Liz. That’s amazing.

Liz Wilcox: You’re welcome. I’ve, you guys, it’s just a testament to what Pat just said, just pick one. Keep going. There’s a great story that Will Smith tells actually, again, Fresh Prince. I’m a big 90s pop culture fan. And he says, I didn’t try to become the world’s biggest movie star. All I did was just lay one brick at a time.

You know, my dad, he tore down a wall one day and he said, let’s rebuild it. And he said, Dad, this is impossible. The wall is gone. And his dad picked up the brick and he said, You know, son, you don’t build a wall. You just lay one brick as perfectly as the brick can be laid, and soon you’ll have a wall. I don’t just try to get on Pat Flynn’s Smart Passive Income.

I just try to get on one show at a time, and one day, bada bing, bada boom, here I am, baby, right? So with your list building, with your entire business, you know, don’t try to build that wall. Don’t try to get your first thousand subscribers. Just get one at a time, and one day, just like me, I now have over 10, 000 subscribers from all those bricks I’ve laid.

Pat Flynn: Amazing. Thank you for that, again. And I’m on your media page right now, and it’s definitely, again, apparent that you include your personality in everything you do. From getting to the bottom of the page and it says, Oops, you did it again! Which is, of course, a Britney Spears nod, and the button literally says, Hit me baby, one more time.

Liz Wilcox: That’s the best copy I’ve ever written. I can’t top it.

Pat Flynn: I love that. But above the page where you talk about what podcasts you’ve been on, I see a little reference to the Fresh Prince of Bel Air lyrics, which are so very famous for us 90s, the, well, I’m an 80s baby as well, but grew up in the 90s. Anyway, I could spend days on this, just kind of poking around and seeing all the little fun Easter eggs.

But I do want to ask you about lead magnets. This is of course something that still works today, but it has changed when I started email in 2010, I created a 30 page ebook, which was about ebooks. And I included that as a free gift for anybody who signed up and it worked really well because that information wasn’t available anywhere else.

And later that became an 80 page ebook. Soon over time, nobody wanted that thing anymore because we don’t have time to download and read an 80 page book. What has been working has been things that are much shorter. What are your favorite things to offer in exchange for an email when it comes to building your list?

Liz Wilcox: Yeah, not an 80 page guide. Guys, the world seems to, I don’t know, only become like more and more stressful, right? So exactly what Pat said, something short and actionable is best. I like to think of it, remember I said, what’s your vision, right? They’re walking across the stage of Liz Wilcox University, I’m handing them that degree and making money with email.

Now, for your lead magnet, take it back to the very first day of class. They just sat down at the desk. What are you giving them? What is their first assignment or what do they need to know to just take that baby step with you because you want to deliver that quick win right. For me, it’s a welcome sequence.

It’s templates It’s already written for you. Just take it and go and it’s in a Google Doc because I know most, you know Online entrepreneurs nowadays work with in Google Docs. So think about your ideal person Right, you know, pause the podcast right now. What is your vision actually now? What do they need on the first day of class in order to succeed, you know X amount of time down the road?

That should be your lead magnet. Now, ask yourself what format is best if I work with single moms? I’m definitely not, you know doing a five day challenge, right? Maybe I’m doing a quick five minute meditation so that they can just zone out for the next five minutes. Something like that. Think about your ideal person, what format is best, what, how much time do they actually have to invest in the lead magnet and how can you deliver that quick win to get them to that vision one day?

Pat Flynn: That’s great. Thank you for that. Now, when it comes to a person who is now a friend of yours, who is a subscriber, how do you go from friend to customer? What is perhaps a sequence or a strategy that you can share to accomplish that?

Liz Wilcox: So, the very first thing, the easiest way to increase conversions is just in your welcome sequence, let them know you’re actually going to sell to them.

In one of your emails, in the first few days, Just tell people straight up. Hey, baby. I’m gonna offer you free and paid products. And then if you already have these products you can sub bullet, you know, like my nine dollar membership like my workshop da da da. You know like my private podcast service or whatever right that and no one’s gonna buy off that email. This is setting the expectation, just like every single podcast episode Pat does.

He says, today we’re talking to, we’re going to talk about, he has show notes, right? He’s setting the expectation. You have to do that in your welcome sequence. Set the expectation that you’re a business. I’m getting riled up because so many content creators, especially, you know, Pat’s on this YouTube adventure now, isn’t he?

So many YouTubers we’ll never make money outside of their advertising dollars because they set the expectation of free content. They set the expectation that I make money from ads and you watch my videos and that’s it. So many failed launches because the expectation is not there. So set that expectation right away.

And then just follow that 20 minute newsletter framework I shared and sprinkle in sales when you feel it’s appropriate. If you’ve got a flash sale, do a flash sale. P. S. Don’t forget, if you want to go further on XYZ topic, I actually have a workshop coming up. Or, you know, you can buy this pre recorded workshop.

Just keep it casual, but with the expectation that, hey, when you are ready, I’m ready to take it to the next level with you.

Pat Flynn: I love that. And on the YouTube thing, I mean, I see that same exact thing happening all the time, and unfortunately you can’t always control how YouTube pushes out your videos or controls your ads.

There’s been a lot of people who have been hit by invalid traffic ad thingies on YouTube that just reduced their revenue literally like overnight. We’ve seen this happen all across the board. So email is, is definitely. And I say this all the time, it’s, it’s also insurance policy, right? If something happens on a platform or if your website gets hacked or whatever, you have now still your list, your friends and, and potential customers who you can move somewhere else.

And this is why I’m so bullish on email and I’m glad we’re having this conversation today. What would be some of the bigger mistakes that you see a lot of your clients doing when it comes to email? How do we sort of get over those so that we can get to the results faster?

Liz Wilcox: Yeah, I think the biggest mistake I mean just like anything else is overthinking, right?

Spending too much time consuming and not enough time producing. I have so many people that come to me Oh, I’ve spent years or I you know, I spent thousands of dollars on this course I’ve been on Google for 35 hours now, and it’s like, but have you written one email in the last 30 days, right? Or people trying to create a funnel before they’ve even sold their product.

So why I advocate for you know, the email staircase and just sprinkling in those sales and just sending newsletters, right, is because email marketing feels really complicated when you Google it, when you watch YouTube videos. You know, it’s, it’s spreadsheets, and it’s math, and it’s, you know, buy this software.

Oh, and then you need this other software to get connected, and you know, this, that, and the other. It just seems really complicated. And so, I think the biggest mistake is, you know, again, too much time consuming and not enough time producing. Just hit send. And, you know, spoiler alert, like there’s probably not a lot of people on your email list.

So, you know, maybe one of them’s your mom or like your uncle that you haven’t seen in a while, you know, they are not going to hate on your emails. Every single time you hit send, you’re going to get better, you’re going to lean more into that personality, those visions you have for your clients, those values, and you’re going to fine tune so that later, yes, you can go to those 2. 0 strategies like segmenting and, you know, funnels and build outs and all of that, you know, crazy tagging stuff, but really just getting started, tuning out all the voices, that’s going to get you to the next level.

Pat Flynn: I love it. Get started, write, practice, get used to what that’s like, and you know, turn that into a habit if you will.

I’ve had to do that with the newsletter and it’s become great because it’s just a natural part of my week now and I look forward to it. And then I read the replies coming in from those emails and that pushes me forward too. People enjoy the email it seems. I’m curious about your thoughts on the unsubscribes that come when you hit send.

This is something that holds a lot of people back or they get started and then they start to see people unsubscribing and then they no longer feel like it’s worth doing. How would you coach a person through getting through the unsubscribes? Because they’re gonna happen, like they always will, right?

Liz Wilcox: Right. So the first thing I want to say to you is take a deep breath. It’s totally okay that you feel like doo doo when someone unsubscribes. You work really hard on your email list. You’ve spent, you know, 30 minutes already learning more about email just today. And when someone unsubscribes, you feel that, Oh my gosh, it took me so long to get to this point.

And now my number is smaller than it was 10 seconds ago when I hit this email. So it’s totally normal. Just lean in. But what I want to tell you about unsubscribes it’s actually really healthy, it’s great for your list. Remember, we’re taking followers, we’re turning them into friends, and we’re turning them into customers.

We don’t want people on our email list that are never going to be our friend, that are never going to be our customer. And email works so well because it’s consent based. I opt in to hear more from Pat Flynn on how to get unstuck, right? You opt in to, you know, NSYNC.Com because you’re praying a reunion will happen, right?

And that’s consent based, right? When someone unsubscribes, they’re just taking that consent away, just like when you say, you know, you text someone, you say, Hey, I don’t want to go on that date anymore. You know, I’m not interested anymore, right? We all believe in consent. And so when someone unsubscribes, that’s why it feels painful.

They’re taking away their consent. You know, it feels like a rejection. But actually it’s really, really good for your list because you’re sending emails regularly. Pat and I talked about that, right? We talked about the more you hit send, the better you’re going to get. The more you’re going to say like, yes, this is my personality, vision, and values.

These are the things I believe this is the way I want to talk to my people. Every single email is going to help you lean more into that. And so the people that are unsubscribing are just saying, actually. I’m not about that. I’m not as serious about the vision and the way that you’re getting me there, right?

And they’re just opting out. They’re just getting off the bus. I made a wrong turn. I’m not serious yet I’m not gonna buy because I’m not ready yet. And that’s all they’re saying. So when it comes to unsubscribes eventually, I promise you, you will get over it and you will look at it like, oh yeah, this is the direction I’m taking my bus.

And that person actually, you know, was headed to Chinatown instead of downtown, right? And so it’s going to feel a lot different.

Pat Flynn: And the school, right, and you handing a degree to somebody, the analogy would be, you know, they took a year of class with you and they decided that they wanted to go a different route.

And so you wouldn’t want to keep them in your university anyway, right? You’re moving them forward.

Liz Wilcox: People change majors all the time, right, Pat?

Pat Flynn: Oh yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And so it can be tough because we see those numbers and it just seems like, wow, 214 people rejected me today. But rather it’s making your list stronger and the people who still remain.

I mean, there’s so many more who are there who want to hear from you and who are looking forward to the next things that you have to offer. I’d love to know sort of mechanically, if you will, how you write your emails. Are you writing in a Google doc? Are you writing directly in an email program? What’s your, what’s your method for doing that?

Liz Wilcox: One day I’m going to be burned at the email marketing stake. Y’all, I just write directly into my email service provider. Because again, I’m a two step chick. If it’s three steps, I just can’t do it. Anything that gets your butt in the chair, hitting send, that’s what you should do. I know a lot of people, I’ll never write your email in anything other than a Google Doc.

It’s like, okay, well, that’s great for someone who’s been writing for four years and has had to lose emails over the last four years. But I really just want you to get started. And even now, after seven years of being in business, owning four email lists. I still literally just write in good old Convert Kit and, you know, pray the internet gods love me today and I’m able to send that email out.

Pat Flynn: So you’re a ConvertKit fan as well?

Liz Wilcox: Oh yeah. I’ve never been on any other platform.

Pat Flynn: That’s great. Shout out to ConvertKit. I’m an advisor to the company and of course we’re affiliates here at SPI. So if you want to go through our affiliate link, you can, but I also want to push people toward you and what you have to offer.

What can people expect and where should they go? Liz from here.

Liz Wilcox: Yeah, sure. Of course. I’m an email marketer. I would love for you to get on my email list. You can go directly to, there’s a hot pink button in the top right hand corner, you can’t miss it. You’ll get an entire welcome sequence already written for you, templatized, that’s kind of my thing.

It’s going to show you how to lean into that personality, vision, and values, and exactly where to put that in the welcome sequence. You’ll also get three newsletter samples directly from my $9 membership. One to show you how to get people to click, another to show you how to get people to reply, and the third is an example of how you can get people to buy directly from your newsletter.

And if that’s not enough, I know you’re getting hung up on subject lines. So I give you 50, 52 subject lines for a year of email prompts. You can’t help it. Hit send. LizWilcox.Com. Hot pink button. You can’t miss

Pat Flynn: it. Love it. I have one more final, very important question, Liz, and that is what is your favorite NSYNC song?

Liz Wilcox: My favorite NSYNC song is I Thought She Knew. It’s acapella, and it shows off their five part harmony, which is why they’re the best band, boy band of all time. I thought she knew. Oh, yes. Sing it, Pat. Sing it. Turn it up, guys.

Pat Flynn: That’s that’s my favorite one too. I love the acapella. You know, they’re known for their dancing, but they can sing.

Liz Wilcox: Yeah, they actually, they didn’t form officially until they got the five part harmony because they consider themselves singers. Before performers first.

Pat Flynn: Love it. It’s just so good, Liz. Just, it just comes out always. And you can check it out on the website, LizWilcox.Com. Check out that big bright pink button.

You see how easy she made that? She’s like, go to LizWilcox.Com, find the big pink button. There’s no, there’s like two steps. That’s it. Just two steps. Just like you talked about. So you’re practicing what you preach. You don’t just talk. You walk the walk too, Liz. So thank you so much. Everybody go check out the website.

Go check out Liz and let her help you with email. Liz, thank you so much for coming on today. For inspiring us and for making things easy, breaking it down. We appreciate you so much.

Liz Wilcox: Yeah, thank you. Can’t wait to see what everybody does with email. Let’s go. Let’s go.

Pat Flynn: All right. I hope you enjoy that interview and conversation with Liz.

Liz is awesome. And again, just her nineties personality or nineties nostalgia personality comes out and it’s really great. It’s very relatable for people my age and for people who enjoy those kinds of things. And it’s interesting cause I, I proposed that question earlier, which was, well, aren’t you pushing people away?

And I wanted to come back to that real quick here at the end. By the way, make sure to go to LizWilcox.Com. Hit that pink button on the upper right hand corner for some free email swipes and stuff. But the position of, well, you know what? I don’t want to put all of myself out there because I’m going to push people away.

Well, when you draw a line in the sand or when you push people away in that format or in that way, you’re also bringing people in, you’re allowing people to connect with you more. And those are the things that are going to be relatable and those are the things that stand out because there’s other people providing the same kind of information.

I mean, in most cases, we’re not discovering anything new. We’re just kind of rewriting it or rehashing it in some way. But when you put relatability to it and your own personalization on top of it, and you are fully yourself, now people have something to grab onto. So I really appreciate this conversation today.

And also if you want to check out our affiliate link for ConvertKit, you can and all the links and everything will be mentioned on the show notes at Again, Man, two back to back amazing conversations in these interviews this past week, last week with Brian Luebben, this week with Liz Wilcox. I am so excited for what’s to come.

So make sure you hit subscribe so you don’t miss out. And I appreciate you till next time. Keep on keeping on. Love you. Peace.

Thank you so much for listening to the Smart Passive Income podcast at I’m your host, Pat Flynn. Sound editing by Duncan Brown. Our senior producer is David Grabowski, and our executive producer is Matt Gartland. The Smart Passive Income Podcast is a production of SPI Media, and a proud member of the Entrepreneur Podcast Network. Catch you next week!

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