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SPI 629: Anti-Hustle and How to Build Something Meaningful with Jadah Sellner

Many new entrepreneurs fully buy into the myths of hustle culture. They believe that finding success is impossible without working to exhaustion day in and day out. But what if that kind of thinking doesn’t get results anymore? What if self-care is actually a more effective business strategy?

I’m so excited that Jadah Sellner is back for another awesome chat! She’s been a student of mine, and we’ve had her on SPI and AskPat before to talk about a number of her massively successful ventures.

Jadah hosts the Lead with Love® podcast and is a brilliant entrepreneur and mentor. She has already co-authored and released a recipe book, Simple Green Smoothies, but is now gearing up for the launch of her first business book!

She Builds is a practical anti-hustle guide that challenges the overwork narrative. Jadah is a firm believer in self-care as a powerful tool for entrepreneurs. In this episode, she shares some of her best strategies for growing a business in a sustainable, service-driven way.

I remember when Jadah first started talking about this concept at an SPI Accelerator event in San Diego. It makes me so proud to see the book finally coming out!

Listen in on our conversation to get a behind-the-scenes look at the writing process, and check out She Builds on Amazon and anywhere books are sold! [Amazon affiliate link.]

Today’s Guest

Jadah Sellner

Jadah Sellner is a bestselling author, business coach, international keynote speaker, TEDx presenter, poet, and host of the Lead with Love® podcast. She’s the author of SHE BUILDS: The Anti-Hustle Guide to Grow Your Business and Nourish Your Life. She’s also the co-author of the best-selling book Simple Green Smoothies where over one million people have embraced this simple and healthy habit.

As the founder of Jadah Sellner Media, Inc. and She Builds Collective, Jadah helps women build their businesses and their lives in a way that works for them—with love. She has been featured in Forbes, O, The Oprah Magazine, and the Wall Street Journal.

When Jadah’s not speaking on stage, you can catch her dancing to Beyoncé in her living room or sipping on a Chai tea latte by a cozy fireplace. She lives in the San Francisco bay area with her husband, daughter, and dog Beesly.

You’ll Learn


SPI 629: Anti-hustle and How to Build Something Meaningful with Jadah Sellner

Jadah Sellner: If we are depleted and we are burnt out, we can’t take care of anyone else from that place. We really have to come back and take care of ourselves and then serve from that place. And my goal is that you’ll learn how to do both at the same time. So that it’s not go, go, go, go, go, go, go, or we’re just in super self care, super indulgent, like not working on business. But we want an integrated way to be more intentional with our lives by looking at self-care as a business strategy. That it actually helps you show up and serve in a greater way.

Pat Flynn: That’s Jadah Sellner, and this is a very special episode of the SPI podcast because Jadah has been on the show before she was here with regards to her business at Simple Green Smoothies, which you might remember that name. She’s since sold her share of that business and her partner, Jen, is working on that right now.

And Jadah went off on her own to really find herself and discover more about what she could offer the world. And she’s recently written a book and I remember she was a student of mine and we went to an in-person retreat together in San Diego. This was actually the retreat that I put together for the SPI accelerator back in the day.

Pre pandemic, of course. And she had just mentioned thoughts about this book and here we are a few years later and this book has now come out. And this book, you can find it or Amazon. Anywhere else there is books. And I’m just super proud of her for what she’s done. And this episode’s gonna be really important because we talk about the idea of anti-hustle, right?

That the way that we’ve been taught to find success has been to work our butts off, and that just doesn’t work today. And even though there is mostly a email sort of positioning here in this particular book, this book and the principles in this podcast episode are in fact relevant to everybody. And this was a great reminder for myself as well.

Jadah has gone through a lot of things in her life recently that have contributed to her efforts here in this book. And one thing that she says that really stuck out to me that you’ll hear her talk about is the idea that self care is part of your business model. And I think that’s so, so important. I think more relevant now than ever because if you can’t take care of yourself, you can’t necessarily serve and take care of others, your audience, and even your family and the loved ones around you.

I’m just so excited for you to listen to this. This is gonna be a very from the heart episode, and I do hope you enjoy it. And I do hope you check out Jadah book, She Builds. Anyway, here she is, Jadah Sellner.

Announcer: Welcome to the Smart Passive Income Podcast, where it’s all about working hard now, so you can sit back and reap the benefits later. And now your host, he still remembers the good old days of a AIM and ICQ. Pat Flynn.

Pat Flynn: Jadah, welcome back to Smart Passive Income. Thank you so much for being here.

Jadah Sellner: I’m happy to be here. Pat, I feel like we have these fly on the wall conversations, whether it’s offline in San Diego or even a recent Ask Pat episode too.

Pat Flynn: That’s right. So you’ve been on SPI like within our community for a very long time, but this is an exciting moment that I wanna shine a spotlight on for you because you have a book that’s come out called She Builds. And to be there at the start of like where this book idea even came from to now it’s published and it’s out there for the world to learn from.

I’m just so proud of you. I, I just wanted to stay and so, so stoked for the book.

Jadah Sellner: Thank you. And I remember being in your mastermind and I was in tears. You know, just trying to find the heart of the book and what I really wanted to write and be known for. And so it’s a complete full circle moment to be at this place.

And also you were a big inspiration in me writing the very first ebook that I ever sold through Simple Green Smoothies. So it’s just, it’s really, really cool to be here. Very full circle moment for sure.

Pat Flynn: I’d love to talk about the book writing process, cuz I know from my own experience that doesn’t come easy.

How was it for you and, and what were some of the challenges you faced?

Jadah Sellner: Yeah, so. I love Steven Pressfield, you know, and he talks about, you know, put your ass where your heart wants to be. And, you know, he’s about discipline and sitting in, you know, sitting in your chair, getting on your laptop, writing every single day.

And I did that. I was, you know, a steward really facing the resistance and all of that. And I would wake up at six o’clock in the morning, write for an hour. And I wasn’t making any true progress. So I was actually really stuck with that process. And I remember talking to my life coach, Rebecca McLaughlin, and she’s like, What if you booked a solo writing retreat?

Just actually booked a hotel for a few nights for the next couple of weeks, and hit your deadline cuz I was actually ready to ask my editor to extend the timeline. Like I don’t know where I am, I don’t know which way is up. And I got really inspired by that invitation to book a hotel and write and just be immersed with this book.

And so for the next three weeks I booked hotel. I had my green juice, my mud water. I had dance breaks, and I would roll out of bed and I would just get to work in the book. And I was able to create this beautiful mind process of, you know, my index cards, my notes, all of these things. And I didn’t have to expend any energy to like, Zoe, what do you need for breakfast or for lunch? There was just something in me being able to fully immerse myself in the creative process. To me, what I learned about myself is I am an immersive creator and I need to be lost in something and go all the way in and then come out versus small sips of the work day by day just kind of piecemealing it, that that didn’t work for me.

So that was a big piece and also realizing that I’m a very collaborative creator, so me kind of being in my own world with my book, I need to process my ideas out loud. So I have a traditional book deal with Harper Business and you know, I have my built-in editor, but I actually hired an editor outside of my publishing house so that I could get more into the weeds.

And I write a lot. I have a lot to say. So she had to help me cut down. 8,000, 9,000, 10,000 word chapters, like let’s get it to under 5,000 words. So that was really helpful, just having someone that was in it with me really on a daily basis and in writing and, and, and editing and cutting too.

Pat Flynn: That’s really smart to sort of be conscious about the environment that you’re in and when you produce your best work.

That can be, I mean, I imagine that for an entrepreneur, right, it’s maybe you have a little bit more flexibility to be able to take that retreat and to, you know, communicate with those around you to, to give yourself that space and, and whatnot. But how might a person who maybe doesn’t have that luxury still find that time to immerse themselves in creativity.

Jadah Sellner: You know, oftentimes we think, Okay, we work Monday through Friday, but also my most creative times is actually working even on a weekend when there’s no external people emailing or pinging me or things like that. So even just looking at a Saturday or a Sunday and asking for help whether you’re in partnership or you have a spouse, but also I’ve done childcare swaps when I didn’t have a lot of money and I was first building my businesses, I would ask a friend, like, I’ll watch your kid for, you know, a day and then could you watch mine?

So that’s one affordable, accessible way to get creative on resources when we have more time than we have money. So that, that’s been really helpful. Pick a weekend and there’s something very inspiring about immersing yourself even in a full day. And I would come into my office and do editing all day and even come on a weekend just because it felt like there was nothing on my calendar.

So that’s how can we clear the decks, if that’s your writing style. But if all you have is an hour or 30 minutes, then you know, you can also write in that way too.

Pat Flynn: Yeah, that was more my approach cuz that’s all I had and I would, I don’t know if I would actually do well if I like set myself up somewhere for a long period of time because I think I would just like want to go to the beach all the time and stuff.

Jadah Sellner: Yeah. I thought that that’s what I would do. I thought that I would get easily distracted. Yeah, yeah. But it felt, you know, I’ve been married for 17 years and when my husband and I do a staycation and we go away and stay at a hotel, it’s like we’re able to remember what life was like before becoming parents, and also were removed from the responsibilities of dishes and laundry.

There’s something about being physically removed, so even if you couldn’t go into a hotel, you know, you could sit in a hotel lobby for a couple of hours or go into a cafe or things like that. So I think removing ourselves from the physical environment also sparks creativity. There’s something that I write about in the book about Lynn Manuel when he was working on Hamilton.

He didn’t get the idea until he went on a vacation, physically removed himself from, from the day to day environment of, kind of like, you know, just being in that stuck rut of way of doing things. I also had to change my schedule. So I do coaching and I move my client calls around so I could have three consecutive days in a row to actually go to a hotel and write.

So it also takes a little extra effort to do that too.

Pat Flynn: I love that you had mentioned true progress when you finally got yourself in a space where you could be immersive. Before you were still writing, you were, you were, you were putting words onto paper or, or typing them out, but maybe they just weren’t the right words.

I’d love to know, like for the output, what was the difference. Like what’s the difference between True progress and just like busy work writing just to meet a quota, which I know sometimes we feel, sometimes.

Jadah Sellner: You know, something that I do are Pomodoros, where I set a timer for 25 minutes and then I write, and so I was able to get two Pomodoros in and I almost feel like that’s a warmup for me for, for my creative style. And I just felt like I couldn’t immerse myself in the work. And I was just like, Okay. I wrote, and that was a thousand words. I would write in an hour and I’d be so proud of myself, but I would forget about what I wrote the day before, or I, I just couldn’t get into that.

Pat Flynn: So like, surface level maybe is a, is a way to describe it.

Jadah Sellner: Yeah, I think surface level, when I was in the hotel writing and I also had a very clear focus, like, I’m like, Okay, I’m going to write chapter eight today, versus I’m going to write a paragraph of the chapter. So for me it was more motivating and inspiring if I could get a chapter done today, that would be really cool to get that first, that first draft out. So I think it’s also what motivates you, inspires you. So some people are driven by, Oh, if I just write 250 words today, I’ll feel motivated and I can keep going. But that wasn’t motivating enough for me. I, it was. I felt the completion of an entire chapter felt more inspiring for me than to just kind of chisel at 250 words at a time.

Pat Flynn: Awesome. Now, I know in your book, like chapter one is titled like Detox From Hustle Culture, for example. I’d love to talk about that and what tips you offer in the book related to the society that we live in and the fact that we are trained or brainwashed in some sense to feel like we always have to work and like we’ll celebrate later.

We’ll enjoy it later, but we just get so caught up in this hustle culture. What do you have to offer that we could use to combat that?

Jadah Sellner: Yeah, so really looking at hustle culture is the external pieces that are impacting how we make decisions in our day-to-day lives where we start to ignore our bodies, you know, where it’s like, keep going even though my eyes are glazing over, I’m tired.

And so this feeling of needing to constantly be doing something and also from the hustle culture of thinking that we need to work 80 hours, 60 hours a week in order to be productive or deserving of success. And we don’t pause, we don’t give ourselves a break.

And I, as for me looking at anti hustles culture strategies, is how can we start to really opt out, of that way of constantly go, go, go. And it doesn’t mean that we can’t do big ambitious projects, but that we’re taking care of ourselves and the people that we love in the process.

So something that I like to do when my to-do list is getting super full or bloated is something that I call a mental declutter list. So actually writing everything that’s going on in your brain and not trying to hold it all or trying to do it all, but get it out of your head and onto paper. So I like to think of you know when you’re cleaning out a little junk drawer in your kitchen of like, we’ve gotta pull all the pieces out and organize it so that we can feel a little bit calmer and feel like we have a handle on what we need to focus on.

And then starting to put that into categories and batching so we can still be productive, but not getting caught in this way of thinking that we work 80 hour weeks in order to be productive. And also, I think especially for women, you know, this book is called She Builds, but I think any of the things that I share in here, men can also do these exercises as well inside here.

And I think it’s also really important for us, as women, we’ve been reading business books that have centered men’s stories, men’s businesses, so I wanted to create something where we’re centering women’s stories and how we build and how we create and do meaningful work still, and also give us a clue of us, you know, really balancing caregiving, whether it’s being a parent or taking care of our elders. So I think with hustle culture, we ignore our whole lives because we feel like work is the thing that is the focus. And so really trying to integrate and acknowledge that you have more on your plate.

You’re actually, there’s a book called The Second Shift, right? Where it’s like we do our work and then we come home, and especially as women or women who have been socialized as females, we also have our whole home to take care of when we come home. Our kids, even if we have support at home, even if we have house cleaners or a nanny, there’s still this psychological space that’s being taken care of. I don’t know, for you, with back to school, I’m holding the emotional space of my kid. Even if logistical things are handled of the highs and lows of just the nervousness of going back to school. There’s a lot of things that our kids are going through, especially with mental health and all of those pieces.

So we’re not just thinking about our businesses. We have multiple tabs open all the time. And so with hustle culture, we’re thinking we have to do a million things at a million miles an hour. And what I’m saying is give ourselves permission to build our way, to build slowly. I actually say in the book give yourself permission to be a slow cooker.

And that means allowing things to simmer, not feeling like we have to cook everything so compressed, so tightly, so fast, and go, go, go. But how can we give ourselves with, we’ll get the same outcome? It just takes a little bit longer to get there. And that’s okay. And that’s the reframe that I really want people to be able to see, is we can still move slow.

We can still take care of our families and our loved ones, our bodies and our business. And it may take a little bit longer, and that’s okay. That’s the part that I think we think we have to do it fast. That’s the only way we’re going to get success, and I’m saying just extend the timeline. We don’t have to put a timeline out on our dreams, but we have to be honest about what’s on our plate and our whole lives, not just what’s in our business.

Pat Flynn: I love that slow cooker analogy because I’m thinking about some of my favorite dishes that I’ve eaten. Kahlua pork, a French onion suit that I make. It requires some time to, like with the French onion suit, for example, I. I slow cook the onions for a whole day. Which like it takes forever to make this dish, but it tastes so much better in the end because it’s had some process to caramelize and all the sugars come out and all that kind of stuff.

Like, I love that analogy because you’re right. I think we always feel like we have to flash cook something because we have to get it out the door. Right. And the consequence of that is what? It’s burnout. It’s it’s relationships broken, it’s mental health issues. Like have you experienced specifically like burnout and, and, and what was that like?

Jadah Sellner: Yeah, absolutely. So it’s interesting that you asked me about my book writing process because you know, I have Simple Green Smoothies was my first book that I wrote and that came out in 2015. We got the book deal and published it in 11 months. And so that was a very concentrated time where with She Builds, It was a two year plus process to really sit with a book and get to know what it is that I actually wanted to write.

So with that book with Simple Green Smoothies, I remember there at the end like in December, I got really, really sick. I was, you know, we’re getting ready for New Year, new you, the 30 day green smoothie challenge. And I remember when I was getting ready to turn the manuscript in and I had not gone to sleep for over 24 hours, so I was already writing a full day.

The, the night had had passed, my husband and my daughter had gone to sleep. Laying on the floor on my carpet, the laptop is on the floor. I’m eyes glazing over, I’m in my yoga pants, and George and Zoe are walking out the door to go to school and had already been writing, working on the book the full day, and, and being really a, a paradox, right?

This health and wellness business where I am exhausting myself in the process of writing this. And I think we can all relate to that. We’re we’re saying one thing like, Okay, we want to live healthy and vibrant lives, and yet here I was pushing and exhausting myself instead of, you know, making a request to ask for more time.

And that’s something that I’ve had to learn is that it is okay to ask for more time to advocate for your health, to advocate for your presence with your loved ones. And I think we can be really hard on ourselves when we don’t hit the deadline, and sometimes it’s an internal deadline that we put on ourselves, but it was in that moment that I was, I cannot work like this.

This is not okay. It’s not okay for my daughter to see me writing in this, creating in this way where I’m exhausted and burnt out and not sleeping. Like I’ve, I, I’m seriously, was up for over 24 hours and I, I’m still just shocked that I did that, but I was like, I gotta get it done. I gotta get it in. I’ve gotta be the responsible author.

And I did it at the cost of my own health and also being, not being a great model for my kid, where I’m like, go to sleep, get your 10 hours of sleep. Eat healthy food, all of these things, and I’m just like, “Caffeine! Caffeine!” So it was, yeah, I had to make a shift from that place.

Pat Flynn: Yeah, I mean that’s a very relatable story, especially for us entrepreneurs who are trying to build things and we are doing it in our spare time.

And you know, a lot of that stuff related to our own health kind of gets put by the wayside, you know, a lot of. Is done. I know for myself and, and when I started out, and for a lot of people I know it’s, it’s outside pressures from other people. It’s like trying to stay up or keep up with the Joneses. It’s trying to do what others are doing or, you know, getting invited to maybe do things that perhaps aren’t your sole thing to do, but, I think it’s also important to find within the society that we live in, the people who are there that can support us, who do share the same values as us.

And I know you talk about in chapter four, like finding your support squad. You know, I talk about finding buddies to build your business with. You know, Chris Ducker was massively important in, in my journey when I was starting out and we were kind of building things together. Mastermind groups, we talk about a lot here.

Talk about your definition of like a support squad and how, like how to go about finding one and what is that like? Is it, is it a mastermind group? Like, give us your definition of, of a support squad.

Jadah Sellner: Yeah. So I think as entrepreneurs it can be very lonely, especially as you start to build your business and you become your own boss.

And I, I just also wanna say that the benefit of being an entrepreneurs, you are your own boss, so you have control of your time and also, the downside is that you are your own boss, so, so you can work yourself to the bone. So support squad, I look it in three different categories so that it’s a very holistic way of, of being supported and not feeling alone on the journey.

So one is peers and colleagues, which is really being able to have mastermind groups, business besties. So I’ll go into that in a moment. Then the second part, Mentors and advisors, and that’s something that you have been in my life. You were once a mentor from afar where it’s like reading the books, listening to the podcast, watching the free webinars, and just, you know, in the free eBooks.

All of those things that helped me and then also becoming a paid mentor where I’m signing up for your program and getting coached by you. So having those mentors and advisors in your life is really important to someone who’s a few steps ahead of you and can kind of help you save time, save money, not overthink decisions.

And then there’s a third piece that I don’t think that we talk enough about in entrepreneurship, which is having the emotional support, so life coaches, therapy, healers, some of that stuff, some of the patterns that hold us back on taking action are actually not about strategy. There’s so many amazing courses, step by step guidance books that can guide us to accomplish the things that we want.

But then we have emotional blocks that keep us in this cycle of what I talk about in the book, which is we get in the fear cycle of forcing exhaustion, avoidance, and rigidity. So if you feel you’re facing procrastination or not getting something done, and that was me with my book before I did the solo writing retreats, was I was actually getting stuck because I’m, I’m not gonna write a good enough book. You know? And that was kind of slowing me down. I didn’t want to get to the finish line because then I had to face like, Okay, this is what I created. This is what’s here. So that’s the holistic picture of a support squad is they’re holding you emotionally, intellectually, socially.

The people that are going to encourage you, uplift you along the journey. And my favorite part is definitely having the peers and colleagues to lean on. That was the difference between my first business, Little Sprout’s Playhouse in Kauai that I first opened with my husband, and we closed that down. But I didn’t have any other business mastermind or peers.

You know, like I was kind of figuring it out on my own. And I knew a couple of people locally that ran their own businesses, but we were also moms. So all we ever talked about was parenting. We never talked about our businesses, which I think is, is interesting. And so for me, I, I tend to, I have a lot of pure based masterminds as well as paid masterminds that I’m a part of, and it can be as small as just having one person. My very first mastermind partner, which you know, Mastermind is introduced by Napoleon Hill and Think and Grow Rich.

My friend Tamika, she was my roommate before I was married, and we were just both reading the same books around the same time, and I was like, you know what a mastermind is, let’s do this. And so from 8:00 PM to 9:00 PM, every Tuesday night, we would get on a phone call and we would just share, Here’s what I’m working on, Here’s where I need help, and here’s what I’m going to do the next week.

So creating that accountability. And so I just want people to know that you can have free support. It could just be a friend that you lean on, and neither of us had our businesses figured out or even generating revenue at that time. So that’s a very resourceful way of just leaning on a friend who’s building something the same time as you.

And then I also have a local support squad where I have a group of girlfriends. We meet once a month on a Friday from 10:00 AM to 3:00 PM we have lunch together, and then we have 25 minute hot seats, which is, you know, we each get dedicated time to ask questions and get feedback. And then I have a squad that I call it where we meet, In different places around the world.

From Mexico to Austin and Magnolia in, in Texas, we meet four times a year and we go for three to four days and we always have spa days and we’re talking about business.

Pat Flynn: So the one with Nicole Walters, you and Nicole are in it, and I think Selena might be in it as well.

Jadah Sellner: Nicole Walters, Jennifer Kim and Nicki Elledge Brown.

Pat Flynn: So Oh, Nicki, that’s right.

Jadah Sellner: Yeah. And it’s interesting, which I think shows the power of a squad is, I was kind of the first to write the book proposal with this book deal, and then everyone else started what Nikki calls author pants. So we were all putting on our hashtag author pants. So all of us are in the progress of writing our next or first books ever.

So there’s something about who you’re surrounded with or you get some inspired and proof of possibility of like, Jadah could get a book deal. Maybe it’s time for me to write my book. So we have that. And then I also have one group of friends. There’s eight of us where we meet once a year and it’s not as structured with hot seats and things like that, but we are going to talk about business.

We are all moms. We also talk about our personal lives and our marriages as well. But I’m happy to share. What’s the process? How do we, how do we actually create these support squads? So, cuz I know that’s a big thing for people who don’t have them.

Pat Flynn: That’s what I was gonna follow up with cuz I like the lonely entrepreneur who’s listening right now, who doesn’t have colleagues or peers or anything like that.

Like how might one go about finding them?

Jadah Sellner: Like I said, you might think about is there another. Friend or neighbor or someone in your world who might be building something around the same time as you. So just thinking of one friend can be really helpful. The way that I have met most of my friends that I’m in peer based mastermind groups with have been that we’ve joined some type of online educational program and, you know, we’re in the Facebook groups and so it’s, it’s a, it’s a great Petri dish to kind of date and see like who’s here, who’s like-minded, has similar values as me. So, for example, with Nicki, she posted something in a Facebook group and I just private messaged her. And so, You know, I really resonated with what you shared. Would you be interested in Mastermind and starting something, and a few other people recording her too. So she just pulled all of us together. We met on a Zoom call, and then we would just meet consistently from there. I’ve also joined mastermind groups or other people’s events like Jonathan Fields. I went to a weekend event of his and was able to meet people from that place.

I was in a paid version, but then I was able to find friends that I could do something more solo Now, the biggest thing that will hold people back is actually fear of rejection, right? So I say that you have to get really comfortable with micro rejections because you’re putting yourself out there. It doesn’t seem so big, right?

Oh, I just ask a friend or I send an email out to start a group. But it’s the fear of rejections that actually holds us back. I’m inviting you, the listener, to actually reach out to people, to send someone an email and be okay if not everybody replies, but to not stop. If you truly want the support in your life, someone who can celebrate you, not just the celebratory highs, but also the lows when things are really hard.

Be consistent with reaching out to people until you, until someone says yes. It’s the same thing when we put ourselves out there with getting customers and clients, and also people are busy and very used to their day to day life, so there’s a bit of extra effort in making friends, period. So when somebody reaches out or you invite someone to something and they’re like, No, that date doesn’t work for me.

All you have to say is, Is it okay if I keep inviting you as opportunities open up? And that person can let you know that if they’re like, Yeah, please reach out. Or like, Actually I’m really in a busy season of my life, that’s not gonna work. There’s something about that. And then for the person on the receiving side to, to be okay saying no until the timing matches up. So I, I court people like I’m, I’m not gonna give up, you know, even with sales, they say this cell is in the follow through and the follow up. That’s the same thing with friendships. It’s all relationships. And so we can’t give up because we asked that one time and they said no, or they couldn’t make it.

And then we take it personally like, Oh, that means they don’t like us. It’s just our lives are full. And so we just keep putting those invitations out. I like to call 10 seconds of bravery, so if you could just like muster up, okay, just 10 seconds. I just have to write this message and just send it out and see who replies. And do that often. I can say that the most pivotal things that have happened in my life have been doing that 10 seconds of bravery of, oh my goodness. I’m so scared of what their response is going to be. And then, I mean, we had a conversation on AskPat, whereas I didn’t wanna email any of my friends to be on their podcast and you were like, You gotta let them know.

I had the email drafted out and everything. So just know that it’s normal for us to be afraid to put ourselves out there, even when it comes to just creating your friends and your support squad too.

Pat Flynn: 10 seconds of brave. That makes it seem like anything is possible or that you could do anything and, and just step up to the plate for a little bit.

It’s not a decision that’s going to normally change your life forever if a rejection comes in. I often think about like, well, what’s the worst that can happen? And for example, in your case, it’s like if, if you reach out to a friend to hopefully be a guest on their podcast and they say no. Like, okay, cool.

That’s the worst that can happen. You’re still gonna be friends like, like nothing’s gonna think crazy’s gonna happen after that, normally. So I don’t know, we just always think worst case scenario. Right? And I was chatting with somebody who, when I asked like, Well, why do we always think about like the worst case scenario?

Why does our brain do that? It’s a natural way for us to make sure we stay safe, right? That’s like when we see a, I don’t know, a vicious looking animal. We think, Oh my gosh, it’s gonna maul me to death or something. We think that, which is the worst case scenario, so that we can get the heck outta there and and remain safe.

But in our daily lives or in our businesses, we often think of certain situations as we’re gonna get mauled when the truth is that’s actually not what’s gonna happen. But then our brain goes to, like, I remember when I started speaking, I was gonna forget what I was gonna say. People were gonna throw tomatoes at me, boo me off the stage, and I’d never speak again.

And, and then my reputation as a creator was gonna be gone forever. Like, that’s what I thought. And that was me getting mauled, which was never gonna happen. So I, I appreciate this discussion cause I think it’s important to realize why we react a certain way, but also the fact that we have support systems in place to sometimes see the things that we don’t.

That’s what what’s been very valuable for me is a person on the outside going, Pat, that’s, that’s actually never going to happen. Oh yeah. Actually, you’re right. I was just in my own head. Right.

Jadah Sellner: Yeah, and I think it’s great that we are thinking of the worst case scenario. We just need to take it one step further in preparing ourselves. Well, what if the worst case scenario happens? Then what would we do? And that helps us make the decision of, okay, do I wanna move forward with that? Or maybe, or I would be okay with that outcome or result. Cuz I’ve definitely lived worst case scenarios of living with my in-laws after shutting down my first business.

And it’s like, we survived and we rebuilt. And I think when I talk about building is sometimes we’re not just building something as a startup, it’s a re restart. We’re rebuilding, we’re reimagining, we’re reinventing what it is that we want to create in the world and, and that continually happens that that sense of reinvention in our lives and in our businesses too.

Pat Flynn: Amazing. Before we finish up here, first of all, She Builds is the name of the book. Where can people go and get access to it if they wanna check it out?

Jadah Sellner: Yeah, so you can go to and. The book will be there. You can also get it, Amazon, Barnes and Nobles, and you have the indie bookshops. It’ll all live there too.

And I’ll also have free resources and things that people can get access to if you go to So those are definitely some places, and I would love to say just kind of piggybacking on the hustle culture of, one thing that I would love for people to just remember is to define enough. Like what is enough for you?

What is enough for, you know, even for money, enough followers. I think we just, we get, so everything seems so big and we have to go back to intimacy, not just within our own communities, but with ourselves is really define your enough number, and I think that can really shift a lot of things in how we show up in our businesses and lives.

And also calm our nervous systems of, okay, this is enough, and I can still follow my ambition, have these big goals and numbers, but when we know what is enough, then we can make a lot more decisions that really align with our own values and the people that matter most to us.

Pat Flynn: I follow some creators on TikTok, been really fun for me to to watch and within a month period, three of my like favorite TikTokers each came out with a video basically saying, Hey, I’m gonna take a break. I need to slow down. I’ve just got caught up in the numbers. I got caught up in trying to grow this as big as possible. I just need to take some time, almost kind of apologizing for it.

I mean, you don’t need to apologize for that. And even the apology makes it come across as like, Oh, I’m sorry that I need to take a break. Like you shouldn’t be sorry for that. It’s like still putting the numbers or the, the audience whose like expectations are there as the priority versus one’s self. I just thought that was really interesting.

Your comment just sort of triggered that.

Jadah Sellner: Yeah, I think that’s really, you know, there’s a chapter in my book called Embrace Your Pace. Do I pause, Do I push, do I pivot? And, and my own life, I had to pause in my business when I had a year of loss, my father passing away my 16 year old brother and then putting down our dog, and it was a very, you know, Intense time for me, processing emotionally, all of that, and also the logistics of grief.

And I was still feeling bad for a moment of like, I’ve gotta show up for my clients, I’ve gotta be there. And it was my support squad that was really there for me in that season where my mentors, my coaches stepped up. Like, We will coach your group coaching program, my friends sending you know, care packages to me during this season.

What I learned from pausing, from taking a step back, and I do believe that taking a step back is a strategy. It’s not failure. It’s like really being strategic of what are my needs in this season of my life. And I learned not only how to give love, because it’s business leaders and community builders, we love to be generous and and give to others.

I learned how to receive, how to receive love, not just give it. And so that to me, when we pause, when we allow ourselves to take a step back, to really connect to what matters, to, to define what is enough, that is where the true inner growth comes and that we can actually have more capacity to serve from the overflow.

But if we are depleted and we are exhausted and we are burnt out, we can’t take care of anyone else from that place. We really have to come back and take care of ourselves and then serve from that place. And my goal is that you’ll learn how to do both at the same time so that it’s not go, go, go, go, go, go, go.

And then, then we exhaust ourselves and we fall flat on the couch. But that we can build or we’re just in super self care, super indulgent, like prioritizing myself not working on business. But we want an integrated way to be more intentional with our lives and our businesses by taking care of ourselves looking at self-care as a business strategy too, that it actually helps you show up and serve in a greater way.

Pat Flynn: So huge Jadah, thank you so much for coming on. Everybody check out the book She Builds, as well as Jada’s podcast, the Lead with Love podcast, which you can get right on the app you’re listening to right now.

So, Jadah, any final words to share with the audience before you go back to your book tour and, and, and, and keep inspiring people and, and again, I’m just to reiterate, I’m just so proud of you and what you’ve done. I’ve seen the growth in you, not just as an entrepreneur, but as a person in this world who’s contributing so much to the lives of others.

Just thank you for that.

Jadah Sellner: Yeah. My last thing that I would love to say is that love matters. And that business is personal. And it’s okay if you are a loving human being to really bring that more into your business and do the things that really light you up, that excite you. Sometimes burn out could also be that we’re doing something that our heart’s not calling us towards anymore.

And so it’s, we really have to listen to that quiet whisper from your heart that’s calling you in, in a new direction. And my invitation is to answer that call.

Pat Flynn: Thank you, Jadah I appreciate you.

Jadah Sellner: Thank you, Pat.

Pat Flynn: All right. I hope you enjoy that interview with Jadah Sellner again, you can find her book at her website,, and you can find her book on Amazon. Everywhere else there are books, and again, I’m just very proud of the work that she’s done. And then to see a student flourish and overcome big obstacles and then share with the world other things that can help amplify her message and help others too is just so, it’s just such a cool thing. I like, I feel very, very proud of this moment and I’m here to support her and all of my other students.

Jadah, good luck to you in the launch and I hope it goes far and wide because you definitely deserve it and as does everybody else. This message is really, really important. So She Builds. Go ahead and check it out and thank you once again, Jadah.

And thank you, the listener for listening all the way through. I appreciate you and I look forward to serving you in the next upcoming episodes.

We have a great lineup here at the end of the year. We are approaching the end of 2022, which is just insane to think about. This has definitely been the quickest year of my life. It always feels that way, but I mean, my son is about to turn 13, my daughter turned 10. We don’t have single digit kids anymore except for the puppies, and time flies by.

So it’s really important to, as we age, as Jadah talked about, take care of ourselves so we can better serve and take care of others too. So I hope that’s one of the many lessons you take away from this episode. And if you haven’t yet done so, hit that subscribe button and I look forward to serving you in the next one. Cheers. Thanks again. Peace out. Have a good one.

Thanks for listening to the Smart Passive Income Podcast at I’m your host Pat Flynn. Our senior producer is Sara Jane Hess. Our series producer is David Grabowski. And our executive producer is Matt Gartland. Sound editing by Duncan Brown. The Smart Passive Income Podcast is a production of SPI Media. We’ll catch you in the next session.

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