SPI 625: Why Going Viral Is Not the Goal with Bob Clagett

SPI 625: Why Going Viral Is Not the Goal with Bob Clagett

Bob Clagett: What we do at I Like to Make Stuff it almost never has the potential for virality. It's not the point. I decided a long time ago that I wanted to end my career with a library of useful things. Long term for everybody. I don't do the I'm gonna go bigger, I'm gonna go crazier. It just doesn't fit with me. It's not my personality. It's kind of a strange way to look at being successful on YouTube, but I really want to play the long game and have an effect on people. And that doesn't equate to big numbers all the time.

Pat Flynn: So, back before the pandemic, I mean, I'm talking late 2019, early 2020, I had an idea. And the unfortunate thing about this idea was it was a physical thing that I just did not know how to build on my own, and I just needed one of them. It wasn't like a product idea to manufacturer. I just needed this solution.

What was it? It was a portable recording studio, but not one that like fits in your phone or fits in your pocket. I wanted to bring my RODECaster Pro that sits on my desk with me on the road, on the plane to conferences. And inside this suitcase that I was imagining, it would include the microphones and housings for cables and all this stuff so that I could literally just go into a room with somebody, open this thing, set the microphones up, and boom, I'd be recording top notch audio like you're hearing right now from my home office.

So, because I knew I couldn't do this on my own, I reached out to my good friend Bob Clagett over at, I Like To Make Stuff. He has an amazing YouTube channel, and at the time I think it was close to 2 million subscribers, and today he has 3.3 million subscribers. His channel has grown actually massively.

So we talked and he loved the idea and he ended up building this thing and he was gonna show it to me in person and then all of a sudden, the world shut down. And so he had this amazing device. Now, luckily during this time I didn't need it because you know, I wasn't traveling. But now that things have opened up a little bit, we have reconnected, and this is where this interview comes into play.

This interview that you're about to listen to was actually done in person at one of his offices when he visited LA, using the thing that he made. We have a video on his channel called Record Anything From Anywhere where I was a guest on his YouTube channel, and he reveals this thing, He unveils the build that had been sitting there for a while and it's an epic, epic piece of kit.

It looks incredible. So you can see that video on his channel. Again, I Like To Make Stuff, but this is a conversation we have a recording that was done immediately after filming that video and setting. To talk about Bob's journey as a creator because so many things have changed in the world of YouTube and just creation in general since he and I first got together.

And we first got together and met each other a long, long time ago. In fact, he's been on the show before, but it's been a long, long time. A lot has changed and he has done things that are definitely to the next level from building the right team and working with, for example, a manager and those kinds of things.

So I had a lot of questions about that stuff here today. And for any of you, not only should you subscribe to Bob's channel, I Like To Make Stuff, I think this is gonna be very, very valuable and it'll be a nice thing to just hear what he's been up to and get an update on him and his business and the way it's run and the way he approaches YouTube and videos, and how he now has 3.3 million subscribers.

In fact, this is a fun fact. The video after our video, our collaboration was published on his channel, a video featuring Mark Rober and a collaboration with Mark Rober, one of my favorite YouTubers was next, so I could say that I was in a video next to Mark Rober. Maybe one day I'll be in a video with him, but for right now I'll definitely take it.

So here he is. This is Bob Clagett from I Like To Make stuff. This is Session 625 of the Smart Passive Income Podcast.

Announcer: Welcome to the Smart Passive Income Podcast, where it's all about working hard now, so you can sit back and reap the benefits later. And now your host, he was ranked 11 out of 27,000 anglers in August, 2022 for number of largemouth bass caught, Pat Flynn.

Pat Flynn: Bob, welcome back to the Smart Passive Income Podcast. It's been almost a decade now. It's been a very long time. It's been a very long time. If I were to ask you what has happened to you in the past 10 years, how would you answer that in a single paragraph?

Bob Clagett: Oh, man. My life has completely changed in the last 10 years.

The company that I have has completely changed. It was me in my garage building some stuff. Now we have a team of six people. We have a, a building that we've purchased. We have an online course, another one on the way. We're building a podcast system, not a network, but like a bunch of podcasts together.

We're just doing a bunch of stuff.

Pat Flynn: Congratulations. Thank you. That's awesome. How is the YouTube channel doing? I'm assuming it's still the main driver.

Bob Clagett: Yeah, it is. It's doing well compared to the rest of YouTube. I don't know how, how deep you are into how YouTube is working at a big scale right now, but it's very different than it was a few years ago.

Pat Flynn: Kind of deep into it, like Yeah, I know a lot has changed. Shorts come about and the algorithm has changed. Like when you say it's different, like what do you mean?

Bob Clagett: I think the audience has, I've found in the last maybe two or three years, specifically pandemic or era, but not strictly because of the pandemic.

The audience has changed. Whereas it used to be YouTube was like this layback kind of thing I'm put on like during lunch or you know, in the evening after you, you know, kids are in bed or whatever, you just put it on. Viewing habits have changed a lot and it's trickled down to us in a way that has made the audience kind of unknowable.

I'm frustrated with YouTube in certain ways right now as a platform, not as a company. Sure. One of the things is that the audience that we're trying to reach is becoming more and more unknowable. And so we've been wrestling with that a lot the last couple years. Still going well, but I want to know the people that we're trying to affect, we're trying to have a personal effect on people's lives.

We don't know who they are and where they are and what they want. It's difficult.

Pat Flynn: Doesn't YouTube give you some of that? Like their geolocation or, you know, all that kind of stuff? Like what, what are you specifically looking to?

Bob Clagett: I mean, I would like to know why people care about the things that they care about.

So the algorithm, YouTube algorithm stuff is, is very focused as it should. On the user's habits to get the user the thing that YouTube thinks they want to see. Right. But that doesn't turn around to us as creators, as to people who are creating the thing that you want to get in front of people. We don't really get evidence of what they want.

We just have to shotgun content, shotgun output, and see what happens to work. But also one of the problems, let's say problem, it's actually a kind of a blessing when when you grow, when your audience gets bigger and bigger, it become, more nebulous. It's like more unknowable the more people there are.

So that shotgun blast becomes a little bit less effective over the years as the audience grows.

Pat Flynn: That's true. Yeah. I've been doing a lot of YouTube stuff recently, and the audience knows I've started this Pokemon channel. Yeah, I've had the Pat Flynn channel for over a decade now. How has your approach to YouTube changed since you first started?

Like when you are filming or about to record a video, how do you approach that now versus what you did before?

Bob Clagett: Not a whole lot has changed. I think now, because I have a team of awesome people who are all really good at stuff. I don't have to try to do the bare minimum across the board. I can lean on the fact that they're gonna be able to do things visually better.

We do pre-production meetings now, so we really talk about what we're trying to get across with this video. What's the point of it, what's the takeaway, the thesis. And that's something I was never able to do by myself cuz it's, there's just too much to do when you're running the whole show on your own.

Now being able to go into a video and say like, I personally. I want to make this thing, whatever this physical thing is. How do we make this valuable for other people who don't necessarily want this thing? What value can we give them? And so we talk about like, what's the thesis? What are they gonna take away from it?

Not necessarily how to make the thing, but maybe a, a skill set or an understanding of a material or at the most basic level of motivation to try to do something that they couldn't do before. That's the entire point of my job, is to let everybody that I run into with my content know that they're capable of more than they've done in the past.

You can do more. You can do the things that you want, and a lot of people don't ever get told that. So that's the one of the kind of pillars of what we do. And so that works into our pre-production, into our discussions about what content is, is how can we make an impact on those people. To answer your question, that was harder to do when it was just me.

Pat Flynn: Can you gimme an example of a video or something that you've made and how it's gone beyond that item or, or thing you built?

Bob Clagett: It happens in a lot of , a lot of weird ways, a lot of small ways across a lot of different videos. I dabbled with leather working. I'm not very good at any of the things that I do, but I get to dabble with different things every week, so it's pretty cool.

. So with leather working one time, I just decided to make a wallet that I still carry. I've got it in my pocket, and it was more of a, Hey, this will be a fun thing to try. I've never tried it before. And we put that video out and it did okay. But the feedback we got from people was, Hey, I didn't realize that you didn't have to have any real specialized tools.

I didn't realize that you could do all of this work on a mat in front of you at a table. I don't need a shop. I don't need anything more than a table. And so people were reaching out and saying like, I've always discounted the possibilities because I didn't have a, a place to do it. But now I realize that I could make that wallet that you made at my kitchen table with very few tools.

That's awesome. So people who just live in apartments, people who you know are kids, they live with their parents, like they have something that is accessible to them now, that wasn't before they saw that video.

Pat Flynn: Now, was that planned?

Bob Clagett: No. I

Pat Flynn: It wasn't like, let's film this in this location that others can relate to because it's not like a fancy factory or anything like that.

Bob Clagett: No. It's still in my shop, but it, it, you know, the scope of something matters a lot when you're trying to get people to understand it and when the scope is all in one little, when it's shot around one little area they don't feel overwhelmed. They don't feel like they're in a big wood shop with lots of tools that they don't understand or know or have access to.

When they see that it's right in front of a person with tools that they're holding in their hand that are very small and not very expensive, it's just a different scale and it reaches people who are living in a different scale. Different place than I am.

Pat Flynn: I love that. Yeah. You know, I think inherently everybody likes to make stuff, right?

Yeah. But we don't often believe that we can. Exactly. That might be the big difference between a channel like yours and then one of my other favorite channels, which is primitive technology. Yeah. . Which is like, he's building stuff in his, in the bush in Australia. Yeah. But it's like, I'm never gonna do that.

But that's super entertaining cuz I don't know what this, what this is gonna turn into, but a wallet, it's like we all know what a wallet looks. But you make this something that is maybe more accessible to people. And so have people sent you pictures of the wallet that they've built or anything like that?

Bob Clagett: Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, we get pictures of all sorts of stuff. I also do the opposite of things like wallets that are utility, useful, small. I also make things that are ridiculous that nobody else should ever make. Like I like the transformers from the eighties, so I made a sound wave boom box that's about this big.

It's got a Bluetooth speaker in it and it just looks like the tape recorder. Yeah. Two days ago, a friend of mine from college sent me pictures of another transformer, the auto bot version of that same cassette player. This guy made, because he saw my video like three years ago. And he wanted to make one, so he made the opposite version of it, The good guy version of it.

And it's beautiful. He made it out of like hardwood. It's, it's gorgeous. Way better than the one that I made, but you know, so it doesn't have to be something small and utilitarian or to have an impact on somebody. So it's really cool that I get to experiment with all the different scales and all the different materials and I can still hit somebody in the right spot.

Pat Flynn: Love that. Yeah. Now since I'm talking to a fellow youtuber, I have to ask you, what's a video that you put a ton of time into. You thought it was gonna blow up and it just kind of bombed.

Bob Clagett: I'm gonna say most of them. Well, okay, so for one thing, what we do at I Like To Make Stuff is almost never, it almost never has the potential for virality.

It's not the point. And so we decided, I decided a long time ago that I wanted to end up end my career with a, a library of useful things. I don't necessarily wanna have like huge spikes, you know, of videos that just go crazy. And then the next one's like terrible. I just want them to be useful long term for everybody.

And because of that, that means that I don't do the I'm gonna go bigger, I'm gonna go crazier. It just doesn't fit with me. It's not my personality. And so because of that, we don't really, I put in a lot of work to, to as many videos as I can, but we don't have the ones that spike up, which means they all, I'm not saying they, they spike down.

I'm not saying they're terrible, but we don't have the outliers up and down so much to where it feels like I've put in all this work and this one just really bombed. It's, it's kind of a strange way to look at being successful on YouTube. Yeah, because success comes in big numbers, but I really want to play the long game and have an effect on people.

And that doesn't equate to big numbers all the time.

Pat Flynn: When we see YouTubers like Mr. Beast spend $3 million on a Squid Games sort of reenactment, or you know, Ryan Treyhan rent an island and spend overnight, like in the middle of the ocean or something random. We feel like we have to go extravagant. We have to go huge.

Right. To just to keep up. H how are you sort of grounding yourself with relation to that, like you said in and what advice would you offer a starter YouTuber who's like, I don't have the money, I don't have the time or resources to go huge like that. How can I still create videos that help people but also are fun.

Bob Clagett: Well, I mean, I think, and this is something I've heard you say before, I, I really think figuring out the value that you're trying to give somebody ahead of time before you do any work is the guiding principle for what you do. And so, I don't know personally the value that those big over the top things are providing other than pure entertainment.

And that's worth a lot. So I'm not trying to discount that. But I think if you figure out the value that you want somebody, anybody who watches to take away, it's easier to backfill the content to that value proposition rather than, I just wanna make something big and then hope that people like it, that that's a dangerous, very risky, very expensive way to live.

Yeah. And so that's not what we do. I think we have a kind of three pillars. We have some core principles, and from those we can decide whether it getting it across this week requires something big, or if it requires making a wallet or if it requires just showing something simple or something obvious or something just like a table that's useful. People need tables, right? So sometimes that is the thing that actually gets the value to the person that needs it.

Pat Flynn: Love it. Thank you for that. I wanna ask you about your team. Okay. Who is like literally sitting over there in the corner watching us right now. So they're awesome by the way.

Got to meet them earlier and work with them. I wanna know how you found your team and what, what that was like for you. A lot of creators, when they start working with a team, it could be very difficult to learn how to let go of some things, for example. Yeah. Like, did you find any challenges in with that growth?

Bob Clagett: Yeah. I mean, there's, there's definitely challenges to growth. Adding people to something that you care a lot about. It's always a little bit scary. Not dangerous, but you know, you lose control of some things. I have had companies in the past. I had a design firm for a long time, and we at one point employed about 30 people.

So I've had experience with scale and I don't really like it. I don't want that scale again. I would rather have a small team of people that I really care about than I know and that are really good at what they do, and that's what we have. And I built that up through a lot of just kind of personal relationship.

Like the first guy that started working with me has been one of my closest friends for years, and I don't even remember how long I've known him. And so having him and his skill set involved from the very beginning has been huge. And then the next person was somebody that I kind of knew through the channel and was just eager to help.

And so he helped. And then we needed somebody to run camera. And I found this random dude on Instagram who's now a good friend of ours. He's been with us for like three years. And that just worked out. I didn't know him ahead of time. And then recently we've hired Megan, who's been a friend of a friend.

You know, like we all know each other from different places and stuff, so it's very relational. And for me, that's the safest way. And the, the quickest way to build a team is like if you trust somebody and they don't have the skill set, you can trust them to learn the skillset. Yeah, but if you find somebody who has a skill set that you don't trust, there's, it's not worth it at all.

That's kind of how I go about it.

Pat Flynn: Your first hire as a YouTuber was for which sort of position or what job?

Bob Clagett: Editor. Editor, Yeah.

Pat Flynn: Would you recommend that to be Most people's, probably first hires.

Bob Clagett: I mean, I think there a lot of that has to do with personality. I know some people who absolutely love the editing YouTubers who love the editing more than the shooting or the being on camera.

Like that's the thing that they really get out of it. So maybe, I don't know. It depends. I, I followed the principal I don't remember who said it, somebody very famous about like, make three lists of the things that you have to do, the things that you only do because you, they have to get done and the things that you don't wanna do.

Yeah. Something to that effect.

Pat Flynn: That was the Chris Ducker's three lists of freedom. So he'll be happy to, to hear. Now beyond YouTube, I mean you're monetizing on YouTube. What are some other ways that you have grown this business to generate revenue?

Bob Clagett: So a few years ago, we started making digital plans for not everything we make, but a lot of the things we make, they are general enough that somebody else might wanna make it as well. So we make a set of digital plans that are really inexpensive. People can get 'em, they. All the information for like the cuts that they need to make, the material they need to buy and then step by step how to build it themselves.

The wallet or the table or like all those kinds of things. Yeah. So, and then they've got the video to follow as well, where I explain in depth. So that has worked out really well for us because it's an inexpensive way for somebody to take something that they see that inspires them and immediately have everything technically that they need to execute it themselves to do it in their own home or whatever, you know?

Yeah. So that's been really big for us.

Pat Flynn: How do you sell that? Like what platforms are you using to, to distribute that?

Bob Clagett: We sell all that on our own website. ILikeToMakeStuff.com. Yeah. Yep. So we've got a store there with merch and stuff, and we sell, you know, those digital plans there. And then we put out a online course about two years ago at the beginning of the pandemic.

. , that was, we were all distributed, everybody was alone. So we're like, all right, this is the time to finally do the course. So we did a course on learning Fusion 360, which is a 3D modeling software, which is what we use to design the model for this podcast case. Like we, so we use this software all the time to pre visualize what we're gonna build. We built rooms and like my entire kitchen we built in there. And then I got to build the kitchen from the model, which was really cool. So we taught people how to use that and that's been a significant part of our income for the past couple years.

Pat Flynn: How are you, like what platforms are using?

Bob Clagett: We're using Podia.

Pat Flynn: Podia, okay. And then how did you release that to the world when you finally had it built?

Bob Clagett: We did kind of a soft release to our Patreon supporters. People that we already knew were kinda like on our side and would be interested. Sure. And then we just made a little ad for it and put it on the main YouTube channel.

And now every time we build something with Fusion, which is pretty much every week, we can always say, This is what we're using. You know, if you wanna learn how to do this, it's not that hard and we can teach you how to do it.

Pat Flynn: How much is the course?

Bob Clagett: It's $120.

Pat Flynn: 120. How many people are coming in per month?

If you wanna give us an idea.

Bob Clagett: Gosh. That, I don't know. We've sold a couple of thousand of them.

Pat Flynn: That's amazing. Yeah. I mean, that makes sense though. That's something that people are seeing you use, so they trust you and they trust that it works. Yeah. And 120 is not a terrible price for something that can build you something in real life, right?

That's really awesome. And you had mentioned Patreon just now. Tell me about that and how you incorporate that into the business.

Bob Clagett: So, Patreon's one of those things. I signed up for Patreon the day I, I like, followed Jack Conte stuff for a very long time. So the, the minute I saw his video where he announced Patreon, I was like, I'm in.

So I, I'm pretty sure I'm in the top five, like, signups. But I've been using it from the very beginning, but I'm terrible at using it. I'm terrible at promoting that mechanism for people to support. I'm not sure why I always have been. So it's never been a very significant part of our revenue and that's probably gonna change. We're at a point now where we are spending so much time fighting the YouTube algorithm to get our content in front of the people who already wanna see it. That we know, they sign the button or they click the button.

So that mechanism I think is a problematic for a lot of creators. So we are about to make a pretty big push to Patreon direct. To just bypass all of the hoops and the, the things that we don't understand that we, like I was saying earlier, that are unknowable. I don't wanna deal with that. I wanna make good stuff for the people that wanna see it. And if that means that that group of people is a smaller group of people, that's fine, but I wanna be able to get it to the people I want.

So we're about to dive into leaning on Patreon as a direct communication tool way more than we ever have. That's in the next couple of weeks probably.

Pat Flynn: That sounds amazing, actually. And are there any plans to. Bring people together to be able to communicate with each other.

Bob Clagett: Yeah. So we haul our, our group, the Maker Alliance. So we've got YouTube members in Patreon that are all under that same banner. And we've got a, a pretty active discord server that is behind that pay wall. So it's not the wild west, like a lot of discord is. So we've got a really amazing group.

In fact, this group of people set up a Maker Summer. The Maker Alliance did this without us. They decided to have a summer camp where they all got together, They rented this lodge, got together and had welding classes. They did a Pinewood derby. We had d and d, all this stuff. And they, they came up with this whole idea and then they brought it to us and said, you know, like, can we do this?

It's got your name on it. We don't wanna like overstep, it was such a good plan and such a community focused thing. I was like, I don't want the liability of the thing that you're trying to do, but I would love to help. .So we ended up kind of being a sponsor for it, and so maybe three weeks ago, four weeks ago, they showed up in our town.

That happened. It happened and it was amazing. Yeah, it was. It was incredible. So that community of people, is very tight. In fact, they are tight because of the community, not because of us. which is really interesting that the people who supported us ended up just liking each other enough that they've, I think they stick around for each other more than they do for us.

Yeah. Which is great. That's fine because they are looking for ways to do what we hope to do for other people. They wanna build people up, they empower people to make stuff and help each other with, you know, problems and you know, technical problems while they're building stuff. It's incredible. And that's all through Discord.

Pat Flynn: How does a non gamer use and manage discord? A non-game creator.

Bob Clagett: You hire somebody that understands. Yeah, so one of our team members, I mean a couple, a couple of guys on our, our team have a lot of experience with Discord. I personally use it like Slack. We use Slack for interoffice communication stuff, and it feels exactly the same to me.

Yeah. That's how I use it. And so, you know, the team. Has the, the basic integrations with Patreon and YouTube stuff so that it, you don't have to worry about people coming in and out authenticated people. That all happens naturally. And then, I don't know, you put good people in, in moderator positions and they can kind of keep track of everything, so I luckily don't have to do very much of that myself.

Pat Flynn: Yeah. That's cool. I see Discord being used a lot more now outside of that sort of gamer community and it's become a really amazing home for a lot of people. Yeah. I wanna ask you to finish up about podcasting.

We're on a podcast right now. Obviously we are video recording this, and so everybody listening is welcome to check it out on YouTube or the clips that we put there. I don't even know exactly how we're gonna chop this up for the video viewers. I know you also have a podcast, right? You're primarily a YouTuber video creator, but you have podcasts or podcasts and tell me about what podcasting is like from a YouTuber's perspective. What are your thoughts about it as a platform?

Bob Clagett: I love podcasting. I really enjoy it. I wish I could do more of it. And, and I told you before we started recording that one of the problems with podcasting for me personally is I can't figure out how to make it financially worthwhile. And so most of what I've done podcasting wise is just been because I enjoy it and I like interviewing people and I like having conversations with a few friends that we do these shows with. And so it's a way for us to do community building more than anything else. And so it, it makes it, you know, we have to balance how much of it we do because it doesn't really bring in a lot of money, but it's really valuable to certain people.

So we're always kind of towing this line, how much effort, how much time, how much money do we put into building up a podcast that doesn't really turn a profit? Right? So we've got one that's that's focused on making stuff, it's a way for a lot of people who are in their workshops by themselves to feel like they're not by themselves.

It's like they got buddies in their workshops. And that goes a long way. So regardless of how much money it brings in or how much effort we have to put into it, we are, we are people's friends that we don't even know. And so that, that carries a lot of weight for you.

Pat Flynn: That's how it's building the community. Is that a publicly available podcast?

Bob Clagett: It's called Making It, way before the TV show. Yeah. And so we also do that one is Patreon supported and it always has been. So we've never done ads on it or anything. And so we have an after show that's kind of specific for Patreon supporters.

So that's one show. And then we have another one called No Instructions, which I and Josh, who works with me do. And it is very like, it's all the stuff that I couldn't talk about on Making It. So on Making It, I'm the only father. So no instructions. We talk about fatherhood, we talk about Star Wars and nerd stuff that the other show, it just doesn't fit right.

Pat Flynn: Sounds right at my alley actually.

Bob Clagett: Yeah. Yeah. So, and that one's fun because we sit around at a table and we talk about all that stuff that we care about and we build Lego sets while we're doing it. And that one doesn't have a, a support model. It doesn't have a revenue stream at all, but it. Another way for us to have those conversations about parenthood and about faith and about life and about all these different things that we care about, that we want to talk about.

And we've heard from enough people that they want to hear about it that like, we can't not do that show. It has an effect. And so, even though it doesn't make any money, we can't stop it, you know? Yeah. I don't want to.

Pat Flynn: Yeah. Well that not everything has to be for the money. You know, and I'm sure that's a very fulfilling podcast to be on.

I also love the idea of podcasting for legacy purposes. These are captured moments that our kids and other generations can sort of listen to and learn from in a way to live on. I want to ask you about the build, this thing that we're recording on right now to finish up. Okay. Because I want people to go and actually head over to, I Like To Make Stuff on YouTube to watch how you built this, but describe what it is, everybody listening has been teased about. What is this?

Bob Clagett: So this is a case, It's a two part black travel case that unfolds, and then inside of it, it's got four microphones. It's got a RODECaster Pro 2 which is the whole recording device.

It's got mic cables, it's got power cables, it's got headphones. All that stuff is compact, held in this box so that you can take it with you, unload it on a table. Set up in like a minute or so to record podcasts.

Pat Flynn: And it did take literally like a minute to set up. Yeah. And we had an interesting journey with this because I asked you for help to create this two and a half or so years ago.

Yeah. Yeah. And then you built it, but then the pandemic happens, so we weren't able to meet. And so here we are in person in Los Angeles right now doing the exchange. Yeah. Finally. So if you wanna see it, go check out the build on Bob's channel. I like to make stuff on YouTube. I also have a version of that video on my channel as well, Pat Flynn.

Thank you so much for this, This has been of course a great experience and a, a great way to catch up. And Bob, if there's anything you ever need from me, like I'm a big fan, I love your channel and I look forward to connecting with you in the future.

Bob Clagett: Yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on.

Pat Flynn: All right. I hope you enjoyed that catch up and conversation with Bob Cleggett. Again, make sure to subscribe to his YouTube channel. I Like To Make Stuff cuz he makes some amazing things and like I said earlier in the intro, you could see the build and collaboration that he did with Mark Rober.

In fact, a build that he inserted into Mark's new office. That is really cool. Just, I mean, I want one in my office too, so you'll have to watch that to see what that's all about. But Bob, thank you so much for being a supporter of SPI. I know you used to listen to the podcast back in the day and I'm just stoked for you and proud for you and the team that you've built, and I got to meet them in person here as well when I was at this location recording this and filming it. And just as nice as you are in real life. Appreciate you.

And I appreciate you, the listener for listening all the way through. This has been an awesome update and I look forward to serving you in the upcoming episodes.

Where not only do we get updates from people who have been on the show before, but we are always looking for amazing interviews and success stories and experts to share their wisdom with you so you can grow your business and do it in a smart way too. So, SmartPassiveIncome.com/session625 for all the show notes and things mentioned in this episode.

We'll also link to that video where I was on his channel there as well. Again, at SmartPassiveIncome.com/session625, and thank you so much. I'll see you in the next one. Make sure to hit that subscribe button if you haven't already. You're here, you're listening. Might as well hit subscribe so you don't miss out on a lot of the great stuff that's coming your way.

And until then, peace out. And as always, Team Flynn for the win.

Thanks for listening to the Smart Passive Income Podcast at SmartPassiveIncome.com. I'm your host Pat Flynn. Our senior producer is Sara Jane Hess. Our series producer is David Grabowski. And our executive producer is Matt Gartland. Sound editing by Duncan Brown. The Smart Passive Income Podcast is a production of SPI Media. We'll catch you in the next session.