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SPI 589: I Interview the Other Pat Flynn — Talking Business, Sharing the Same Name, and Generalism

On today’s episode I interview the other Pat Flynn, owner of Chronicles of Strength. I like to call him “Kettlebell Pat Flynn.”

Why did I bring Pat on? Because we wanted to connect and understand what it was like in this world to share the same name as business owners and entrepreneurs, and help those of you who might be struggling with something similar.

We share the same name. We’ve written books. People have thought I wrote his book, and some people thought that he wrote my books. It’s confusing to many, many people.

In this episode Pat and I have some deep philosophical conversations about our approach to business, our approach to generalism and focus, growing too much, and all that kind of stuff. There are so many amazing things to unpack from this story, and it’s just super fun!

We also tell some embarrassing stories about when our names have been confused. One event led to something that was totally embarrassing for the other Pat Flynn, which we’ll get into.

I’m so excited to learn about Pat’s origin story, how he’s crushing it in the fitness space, and more — so join me as I get to know the other Pat Flynn!

Today’s Guest

Pat Flynn

Pat is an award-winning writer, author of five (soon to be six) books, and trainer of special forces and professional athletes and those who are neither. He’s consulted some of the largest brands in the fitness industry and continues to do so in other fields, as well. Academically, Pat has a background in economics (undergrad) and philosophy (masters). He records music on the weekends.

You’ll Learn


SPI 589: I Interview the Other Pat Flynn – Talking Business, Sharing the Same Name, and Generalism

[00:00:00] Pat (guest):
At some point you have to let go and realize, do I have to be the best in the world to do something good, to do something creative, to have something unique that really serves people, and that they find valuable and interesting?

I think the answer is no, you don’t have to be the best in the world. In fact many of the people I admire and look up to are probably not the best in the role, they’re just unique.

[00:00:41] Pat:
So that is Pat Flynn, another Pat Flynn, and yes, I’m Pat Flynn and I interviewed another Pat Flynn, the owner of Chronicles of Strength. I like to call him Kettlebell Pat Flynn. We share the same name. We’ve written books. People have thought I wrote his book, and some people thought that he wrote my books. It’s confusing to many, many people.

Why did I bring Pat on? Because we wanted to connect and understand what it was like in this world to share the same name as business owners and entrepreneurs, and help many of you who might be struggling with something similar.

But also, we really have some deep philosophical conversations here about our approach to business, our approach to generalism and focus, and growing too much, and all that kind of stuff.

There’s so many amazing things to unpack from this story, and it’s just super fun. We also tell some embarrassing stories about when our names have been confused. One thing led to something that was totally embarrassing for the other Pat Flynn, which we’ll get into.

I’m just excited to learn about his origin story and how he’s actually crushing it in the fitness space. You can find him at I’m looking forward to hearing your thoughts about this and getting to know the other Pat Flynn.

Here he is.

Pat Flynn, welcome to the Smart Passive Income Podcast. How are you?

[00:01:55] Pat (guest):
Pat Flynn, it is a pleasure to be here. Thanks so much for having me on.

[00:01:59] Pat:
As I said in the intro that everybody else already just heard, we both share the same name. We’re both online, we’re both business owners, and this is the first time that we’re actually able to connect with each other.

There’s probably some funny stories to share. You have a book. I know a lot of people thought that was me, and I’m sure vice versa. There’s a lot to talk about here, but I’d love to get to know you a little bit more and just understand how you got into what you do. Am I right that you are somewhat famous for working out, and fitness, and kettlebells, and things like that? Is that true?

[00:02:28] Pat (guest):
That’s right. So let’s clear the air. You are the real Pat Flynn. You were the first Pat Flynn, and I’m happy to accept the title of maybe the second most famous Pat Flynn.

[00:02:37] Pat:
Wait, wait, how old are you?

[00:02:39] Pat (guest):
So I’m 32.

[00:02:40] Pat:
Okay. 40, almost 40 here. Okay.

I’m an old man.

[00:02:44] Pat (guest):
You definitely have the advantage. But no, you’re right. I think most people know me for—even though I have this book right here, which kind of encroaches onto your territory, which is more business focused.

My first book was this one from Wiley called Paleo Workouts for Dummies. Terrible title, but publishers, Pat, they always want to keep up with the trends. This was when the paleo scene was big, and it’s really just a book about kettlebells and sort of minimalist type of functional training, which I was definitely into in college, and I’m still into now.

So yeah, I think that’s probably where most people have heard of me before. There’s another Pat Flynn on the internet, and it makes it more confusing because he’s a guitarist, and I also play guitar and like music. So it’s just an absolute mess. Yeah.

[00:03:32] Pat:
Are you serious?

[00:03:34] Pat (guest):
Now, now you mentioned, I do have some funny, embarrassing stories too, but we can, we can get into those as we move forward.

[00:03:39] Pat:
Okay. We’ll, we’ll, we’ll get into that. But how did you become known? Like how did you even get the opportunity to write that book and, uh, you know, build this audience online for what it is that you do?

Like, tell me about how that all started.

[00:03:51] Pat (guest):
Yeah, it’s a, it’s a funny story because you S you started your blog in what year? Remind me.

[00:03:57] Pat:
Oh, wait, uh,

[00:03:59] Pat (guest):
Right? So you’re, you were part of my initial inspiration. So I was in college at that time.

And, uh, I was going through. You know, academically, my backgrounds are economics and philosophy, nothing related to fitness whatsoever, but I was training people in college as a way to pay tuition.

And I had a blog at the time and I was really interested in the idea of seeing if I could do something online and be an online entrepreneur. So you were a name that I was familiar with, uh, in terms of content marketing. And of course other people like Tim Ferris, but I eventually sort of slid, uh, into direction of direct response marketing.

It seemed to me That sort of becoming a copywriter was a really important skill. And so I became increasingly aware that if I really wanted to kind of do something online, it seems like this idea of getting people onto an email list and sending words at them to tell them about the stuff that I have and why it’s interesting and why it can serve them, uh, would be really helpful. I gathered many ideas about content marketing from many different people, um, including yourself, you know, with the various social media platforms and what was useful and interesting at the time.

So I’ve got a lot of stuff on YouTube, uh, ketubah workouts and tutorials and fitness plans, stuff like that Uh, but throughout college, I was really focused on this sort of direct response, email marketing side. things sort of just accidentally lead into other things. And I guess I attracted enough attention from my blog at the time and the fitness content that I was doing, that somebody who was already contracted and writing for Wiley had knew about me and sort of wanted to bring me on for, uh, the book project.

So it’s kind of a weird way to get a book deal because a lot of people pitched to publishers, but they sort of actually approached me. And that’s how that all started.

[00:05:45] Pat:
Oh, that’s cool. Yeah, that is that. That is unique. So what was your thought with the book writing and how was that process writing for Wiley and the dummies book? I have a friend who wrote for dummies and it wasn’t necessarily the best experience. And you know, we’re not trying to shame any companies here, but just like, what was your experience doing that?

And did it do anything, did it lead to it?

[00:06:04] Pat (guest):
It was, it was a mixed bag to be sure. I mean, so Wiley big company. So it was kind of an office space experience, you know, with like having five bosses. I think I had like five editors on this book and they’re all kind of like telling you different things and giving you different advice. And, you know, there’s, there’s this kind of always this creative battle between what you want to do as an author versus what the publisher wants to do.

And that’s why it has such a mess of it. Uh, because I told them at the time like, look, this, this paleo thing is like, it’s big right now, but in five years it’s just going to be completely gone. Right. And I think I was kind of accurate with that prediction, I guess it lingers somewhat.

[00:06:37] Pat:
Pretty close. Yeah.

[00:06:38] Pat (guest):
And I also told them, like, I don’t know what a paleo workout is, but I can teach people how to work out with a kettlebell.

So that’s what I’ll do. And then you guys can kind of call It whatever you want. So there was, there were those frustrations, uh, but you know, the, the book has done fairly well. it’s still, it still sells, uh, the truth is, I think for a lot of authors, you know, that isn’t, at the end of the day, what pays the bills, it’s sort of one of those branding things, right?

That gets attention. It alerts people to my other books. It brings them to my other content and ultimately gets them backwards on my email, this, which is where I guess the real business magic happens. So it’s, it’s helpful. It was a good, it was a good process. I’m glad I did it, but yeah, I guess it’s not something I rely on for my income by any.

[00:07:20] Pat:
Right, right. What is your business look like now? What are you mostly driving on? And how do you get people in.

[00:07:26] Pat (guest):
Yeah. So I’ve, uh, like most email marketers. I’ve got a sort of. Array of different opt-ins and enticements to join my email list, which I primarily do advertising these days. I’m less on the organic marketing side for that. I still do a fair amount, but a lot of it is just a paid traffic to different squeeze pages.

Opt-ins still mostly around fitness content. Once people are on my email list, I try to introduce them to my brand and that brand is heavily. Uh, themed by these ideas of minimalism and generalism. So my approach to fitness is we should be generalists, right? We should want to be kind of good to great, or at least fairly competent at a sort of broad array of physical abilities.

We don’t have to worry about being the best in the world. Pat Flynn certainly isn’t, but you know, we can teach you some cool things and we want to be minimalists. We’re busy, we want to be efficient, and this is where the kettlebell comes in. So that’s sort of the branding posture I take. And then I have a sort of, yeah.

Hierarchy of different things that I offer. So. Challenges program’s ongoing membership site. And then as we kind of move up the chain, we’ve got semi personal, online coaching and then higher level, coaching, online and consulting.

[00:08:31] Pat:
Nice. Have you done any physical products? I know a lot of people in the fitness space often tend to go that direction because once you build an audience, you can sell them things to work out with, and a kettlebell in like would be an obvious one that, uh, from my position that, that you could get.

[00:08:46] Pat (guest):
Yeah, no, I have not. I’ve flirted with the idea. And then honestly, Pat just I’ve looked into the logistics of it and I’ve just become sort of intimidated and was like, you know what? I think I’ll just, I’ll just stick. I’ll just stick with my digital stuff. Right.

[00:08:59] Pat:
That’s a great call. You know, I did a physical product with my videographer. It’s still available to switch pod. It’s like a tripod, a minimal tripod. And man, it took like 18 months of several prototypes and loads of money and a lot of headache and a lot of waiting and a lot of, you know, if you need to make a change, like 50 things need to happen and then you would need to wait even longer. And you know, me, I came from the digital world as well. It’s just like, ah, it’s so much just easier to do. Um, what would you say is like your signature, um, product or like the main thing that you would you’re promoting out there that, that you’ve become.

[00:09:34] Pat (guest):
Yeah, it’s called strong on, and this is my sort of flagship membership program. So people can sign up, they can become members. And what they do is they get their sort of daily Pat Flynn minimalist, ketubah workout. So, you know, it’s, it’s, um, centered on efficiency. They just have to log in. There’s like this virtual chalkboard, there’s your workout for the day, take the workout, do it and get good results.

And then, you know, it’s, it’s not just a random workout. We have, it’s really part of an ongoing programming. That I take care of, and I’m really focused on people kind of like myself these days, you know, I’ve got, uh, well, I’ve got four kids, but number five is on the way. Uh, I’m busy running my own business.

So I’m looking for efficiency. I’m kind of dislike. Tell me what to do, coach. I don’t need to read a dissertation at this point. I just, just give me the workout and help me get started. So, yeah, it’s called strong on and that is sort of the core of my business right now.

[00:10:26] Pat:
Nice for those who are interested in want to learn fitness from you, a different Pat Flynn, uh, where should they go? Like where should they begin that journey with you? Because that sounds awesome. And I think a lot of entrepreneurs are. In terms of busy with family and business. And we don’t have a lot of time.

I love the minimal approach to this and having just a couple tools at hand to get the best, uh, like greatest results possible. Not necessarily being the best, like you said, absolutely love that approach. Where can people go to like, get started with.

[00:10:53] Pat (guest):
Yeah, thanks Pat. Uh, my website, Chronicles of, which has been around for a while. It was still, I think probably the primary spot, but I also like you, I have a podcast, the humbly, and originally named Pat Flynn show, which is not your podcast. It’s this Pat Flynn also confusing and that has a lot of fitness content on it.

And then of course my YouTube channel, if people just search Pat Flynn kettlebell on YouTube, they should get me. Would it be surprised if you still popped up, but that should bring you to my YouTube channel.

[00:11:21] Pat:
Well, I don’t plan on publishing any kettlebell content. So you won’t have to worry about that. And, and, and, you know, it’s interesting. I know you have a book as well, how to be better at almost everything almost in parenthesis. And that book has done very well. And it’s interesting. Cause when that came up, I had a few pew actually by a few.

I mean, a lot of people reach out to me and say, I love this book, Pat. I’m so glad you wrote it. It was really great. And I’m like, that’s not my book. That’s that’s the other Pat Flynn and then they’ll get, they get all embarrassed and they find you eventually. Well, at least you’re publishing great things that best represent just the Pat Flynn name.

And I’m trying to do my, do the same on my end, but, uh, tell me about the book really quick. And then maybe we can get into some interesting sort of name stories. Cause I think that’s maybe why some people want to hear this episode because it’s, there’s a lot of confusion, right? Uh, so, uh, how to be better at almost everything, where, where did that book come from?

What’s the origin story and like, what’s it about because it is a good book I have heard and uh, people should check out.

[00:12:19] Pat (guest):
Well, thank you kindly. It actually came almost from being insulted. Somebody. I didn’t take It as an insult, but somebody, a number of years ago sent me an email and, you know, they were kind of just like noting, like Pat, you seem to have done pretty well in the fitness space, right. In the online fitness space.

But like, you’re not the biggest dude around, you’re not the strongest and like that’s right. I’m certainly not. Right. So they’re kind of asking like, like why is it that, that you’ve been able to kind of. Stand out in this very noisy industry when you’re not like the biggest silliness to strongest assets.

And I actually took that as an opportunity to really reflect on that question. Like w yeah. Why is that right? There’s, there’s a lot of people out there that are bigger, stronger, faster, and just, yeah. Even more knowledgeable than me, especially when it comes to deep questions of physiology is like, And reflecting upon that question made me realize that I’m really just a pretty good generalist, right?

I’ve got backgrounds in writing and philosophy, and I took the time to study marketing and communication and advertising. And what I came to realize is sort of my ability to stand up. Wasn’t because I was the best at fitness, whatever that means, whatever that means. I certainly wasn’t it. Right. Rather, I just had a lot of different skills and a lot of different departments, and I was able to stack those skills and combine those skills to really form competitive and creative advantages.

And just sort of helped me develop this, this thesis. That for a lot of people, a lot of the times, especially entrepreneurs, it seems like skill stacking and being a generalist might be more valuable than hyper specialists. That makes sense. So what I wanted to do was explore that philosophy in a book, see where it made sense.

I think it makes a lot of sense for business, but also even for fitness, you know, I’m a, I’m a generalist I’m not out there competing in powerlifting or bodybuilding. I really just sort of care about, uh, uh, robust, general physical preparedness. And then I wanted to also try and identify, well, what skills really matter?

Like, what are the, what are the sort of meta skills that like, no matter what you’re doing, these seem important, like even a little bit goes a long way here, things. Logic and writing and communication. If you’re a business owner, copywriting, stuff like that. And then how do you, how do you, kind of find out when good enough is good enough?

Like, okay. I actually have gotten far enough here. Uh, in whatever this skill is, maybe copywriting, when should I pivot and focus on something else to fill gaps and continue to form those competitive and creative advantages. So it’s really trying to build this philosophy of generalism out with the idea I think, and this is where it gets really confusing with you with the idea of actually entrepreneurs in mind, though.

I think you can take it and apply it to other areas of life.

[00:14:49] Pat:
For sure. Actually, before we get into some name related things, I do want to go deeper into that idea of how do you know when it’s good enough? Because that’s a big question that I know I have all the time. I, often, told them. You a Jack of all trades. Like I have a lot of these skillsets and you know, I’m not like you said the best at any of them, but I try to be at least, and you know, maybe my obsessive and competitive nature wants me to be the best in those ways.

But at the same time, I know that having this expansive knowledge and a lot of different skillsets has allowed me to be, you know, more nimble if you will. And not necessarily relying on just one thing, but. I can move around a little bit. I can be a little bit more easily PivotTable and, and adjust and adapt, uh, adaptable if you will.

But how do you answer that question? I’d love to explore how you, how you tackle that in the book. And again, I have a we’ll link to the book and everything in the show notes, but, um, that’s a great philosophical question. I’d love to explore.

[00:15:41] Pat (guest):
It’s. Yeah, it’s a tough question to answer. So what I say in the book, as I sort of, I say, look, if 100% is the best in the world, then almost never do you need to go above 80%. And sometimes you might only need 10% depending on what the skill is that you’re after. Right? So it’s kind of like set like 80% is a threshold. If you could imagine, like 100% is the absolute best in the world. Certainly by the time you were at 80%, whatever it is, like, you are more than like, if you’re at 80% and you still haven’t gotten the thing that you want, this is not your problem anymore. Right? This is, this is not what’s holding, holding you back.

And again, like how, how you assess that I think is very difficult and depends on what you’re looking at. You know, maybe some things are easy, like fitness, right? I want to be in shape. Okay. I can look at who. Top deadlift through in the world and make that 100%. And then like how many people were even at 80% of that, I don’t know a fraction of a fraction.

Right. So even that is extremely high. And if you just want to be in like general good shape, I mean, yeah. Like if you have a, I don’t know, a three times body weight deadlift, but you still can’t touch your toes. Deadlifting isn’t your problem anymore, right? Like that’s you need to shift, right? That is, that is good enough, right?

Given your goals. Now, if you want to be the best deadlift in the world, that’s a different conversation, but that’s not what I’m advocating.

And yeah, I, I think I, I sort of figured this out through a lot of trial and error in my own business. Like you Pat, I always, I get obsessed with things and I actually do want to be the best.

So a lot of this is sort of reminder to myself and I did this with copywriting. I just wanted to study all of the best copywriters right then. And now people like, yeah, like Halbert and all those guys and stuff, and be like, I just want to be as good as them. But then I spent so much time on that and I think I got really good at it.

But then I realized there were, there were major gaps that I needed to fill elsewhere where I wasn’t, uh, I wasn’t so great. Right. Um, some of them kind of boring logistical things, like how do I set up social media advertising campaigns, right. Other skills that I just lacked that it didn’t matter how good I got at that one particular thing, because until I had those other gaps filled, I was always sort of restricting.

And being held back by this kind of like increased hyper specialization. So, sorry, that’s a vague answer and it’s hard to give like a number

[00:17:54] Pat:
No, no.

[00:17:55] Pat (guest):
To frame it in the book.

[00:17:57] Pat:
How do you balance? So for things like fitness, it’s very much just kind of you working on your self kind of thing, but in business, right. There’s a lot of ways to fill in a lot of those gaps of maybe things that we’re not so great at. We might hire a team or, find other systems or software or something to do something.

How do you, uh, how do you in particular feel about hiring out for certain things that maybe we’re not so great at and balancing? Well, maybe I can do that myself too. Time and management and, skill acquisition. W what are your thoughts on like hiring out for things to fill in some of those gaps?

[00:18:28] Pat (guest):
Yeah, I’m a big fan of it. So I’ve got a number of people that I. Hire out to mostly freelancers that I’ve worked with throughout the years. And one thing that I think is helpful from the generalist approach is you can pursue something and you can get a little bit good at it. And that itself can be helpful for the hiring out process, because then you can at least kind of know.

Who does a good and bad job, right? If you know nothing about copywriting, it’s kind of hard to hire somebody to do copywriting because you just have no frame of reference of what good copywriting is. Right. So sometimes you might want to just pursue a skill a little bit, just so you can tell who the real McCoy is.

So even, you know, now I do far less of my own copywriting than I used to, but I think I know enough about copywriting that I can see who’s actually worth hiring and who isn’t. So that’s yeah. That’s that’s right. To your point. There’s the same thing. Ad campaigns and stuff. I hardly do any of that now anymore.

So I think that that’s sort of the place you do want to get to. So it’s, I guess it’s a little bit ironic because in, in being a generalist, it sort of allows you, to become even more of a specialist because you can outsource and just focus on the things that you either like most or, or are best at.

Right. But I think you become a better outsourcer by being a generalist first and understanding at least a little bit of those things that you are outsourcing.

[00:19:44] Pat:
I agree with that. I mean, I have a lot of people who I teach podcasting for and they go, Pat, I want to, I just want to hire somebody right off the bat to do everything for me so I can just record. And I always, I often recommend do it all yourself. First, learn how to edit, learn how to do these things for, so that number one, like you said, you just kind of at least know how it goes and you can better hire somebody.

But number two, you can also develop your own specific style and the way that you want to do it. You’re not immediately relying on somebody else saying it should be this way. You can direct that and then bring somebody in and train them to, to support it in that kind of way. So I love that. And then, and then finally, this idea of like always wanting to be the best and always wanting to grow and get bigger.

And, and w and what have you, especially as a business owner, um, where do you. Comes from because that’s something that even I have issues with. And I know that we had a person named Paul Jarvis on the show once who wrote a book called company of one who really counter the idea that we actually don’t need to grow all the time we can.

How do we just be satisfied with where we’re at and not feel like that’s a bad thing? What are your thoughts on complacency versus. Being okay with, you know, not necessarily growing and being the best, but you know, and being okay with that, psychologically

[00:20:55] Pat (guest):
Profound question. It’s something I struggle with a lot and have struggled with in, in, many different areas, because my tendency is to obsess probably some just genetic disorder that comes from my parents. Right. Um, whatever I want to do, like I do, I do want to obsess, I think in business I’ve actually been, um, less effected by this and other areas that I have, like in music and writing and stuff like that, primarily because. role for business, for me, Pat, wasn’t so much as an end to obsess on, uh, in and of itself as it was a mean, so I. could obsess on the other things. I was more obsessive about if that makes sense. Right? Like, so, so business for me was like, I love all of these other things that I want to do all the time and obsess over music and writing and the books and stuff I’m doing.

And of course, you know, just a lot of other things that I just enjoy doing, frankly, more than I Setting up advertising campaigns. Right? So business, to me, it was always something like it’s, it’s gotta be enough where I can do these other things and I have enough time and energy to do them, but I was never so much obsessed with creating some sort of huge business empire.

And that’s not because I was always sort of free of superficiality or ego. It’s just that that was kind of parked in other, in other areas, if that makes sense. um, so maybe I’ve escaped that, that, issue sort of accidentally in business. But I’ve had that, that issue, um, in, in many other areas my life.

And I guess I I’ve taken inspiration And solace from, from various examples that I look up to. I mean, I’ll just, I’ll talk about music a little bit because, um, it’s sort of what I know. I grew, I grew up with, uh, all the kind of like 80 shredder guitars is my heroes. And th the truth is they were greatly inspiring to me.

Like people like Joe Satriani and Steve, but I’ll never be as good as those guys. Right. Sometimes. They just have something genetically, you don’t have like longer fingers, right? It’s like Michael Phelps with web feet. Like at some point, like, it doesn’t even matter how hard you swim. Right. You’re just not going to be able to keep up with this guy.

So at some point you just, you do have to let, go with that and realize, do I have to be the best in the world to do something good, to do something creative, to have something unique that really serves people and that they find valuable and interesting. I think the answer is no, you don’t have to be the best in the world.

And in fact, many of the people that I admire and look up. They’re probably not the best in the world. They’re just, they’re just unique. They’re good. They’re very good at what they do. Um, and they have many different, I mean, take, take Angus young from ACDC, for example, another famous band of mine, I guess, is a good guitar player, but he’s not like as good as some of those other guys, but he’s also better known, which is interesting.

Right? Some of those other names I mentioned, people might not even know who they are. There’s. They’re like the players, players, you know what I mean? Whereas Angus young, everybody knows ACDC. Everybody knows him. Well, why is that? He’s a good generalist, right. He can play guitar well, but he’s also a great show, many dresses up in the school boy outfit.

And they make music that resonates with people. Whereas people who are like best in the world, they become. Almost so hyper specialized and so technical that it almost can’t be appreciated unless somebody else a technician. so that’s, I don’t even know if that answers your question, but it’s, it’s been, that’s kind of how I think about how I try to get out of these like ego traps of okay.

Pat it’s okay. We can cool. Calm down

[00:24:10] Pat:

[00:24:11] Pat (guest):

[00:24:11] Pat:
That was a great answer. And I just love talking shop like this with, with somebody who can help me think even more deeply about this.

And I’m sure the audience is thinking that way as well. Fun fact, my son who’s 12. His favorite song right now is back in black, which is a.

[00:24:24] Pat (guest):
Oh, yeah. I cover it my little local band. We do thunderstruck,

[00:24:28] Pat:
So good.

[00:24:29] Pat (guest):
We medley right into, back in black. So yeah, of course.

[00:24:32] Pat:
Maybe I’ll catch it. You sometime. That’d be awesome. Where are you located by the way, if you don’t mind me asking.

[00:24:36] Pat (guest):
So I’m in Waukesha county. So, you know, the big old Walkinshaw county fair this year. If anybody wants to come down, you might,

[00:24:43] Pat:

[00:24:43] Pat (guest):
Me there.

[00:24:44] Pat:
Nice, nice. Now, when it comes to things like music and obviously something you’re very passionate about, how do you bet. Improve, especially if you know, you’re obsessed on it, you are obviously pretty good at it right now. How are you training yourself to improve? And like, what’s your, what’s your schedule with that?

And how do you, how do you approach that?

[00:25:05] Pat (guest):
Yeah, good question. I talk about this in my book a bit, because when I was young, I would, I would play six to eight hours a day. It just goes to show the sort of obsession that I have. Right. Cause that’s just what the best players did. I can’t do that anymore. I just have too many obligations. So what I do now is I try to get at least an hour practicing per day.

I think if something’s really important, we have to dedicate at least some time, like every day to do it. It doesn’t have to be a huge amount of time, but I think frequency matters for skill development, whatever it is. Top of mind practice seems to make a difference. Right? It’s almost better. I would argue for most skills to practice a little bit every day, then just like for a very long time, just on Saturday, right?

[00:25:41] Pat:
Yeah. Oh, I agree.

[00:25:43] Pat (guest):
And then I think about, uh, for music, you know, there’s kind of like different, um, aspects of it on guitar. So I’d like to take a three eyes approach and the three eyes would be a sort of isolation, integration and improvisation. So integration is like, here’s my goal. Here’s what I want to integrate towards.

I want to play back in black, for example. Right. Okay. Alright. Well, what do I need to play back in Blackwell? I need an e-card a D chord and a chord, a G chord, right? So there’s like component. That I need to have down first before I can integrate them. So I take kind of my, my end goal. I say, here’s what I want to reach.

This is the integration, but I need to isolate the particular components and get those down first. Right. But what I should do if I want to be efficient is I should focus on just the components I need for the end goal and nothing more. I don’t need to learn all these crazy jazz chords or anything like that.

I just need the basic ACDC core. Get that technique down and then as quickly as I can, I should try and integrate it into the rhythm of the song to be as efficient as past.

Uh, and then once I kind of had that structure down, uh, then what I want to do, I think to really kind of build your skill and chops and become more creative is then you want to improvise, okay.

Now how can I make back in black, my own let’s record the rhythm and let’s see if I can do some cool stuff on top of it in terms of lead or, or anything like that. So I think that that itself is a framework you can take into skill development in a lot of ways. Take copywriting. Okay. Here’s a sales letter.

I want to do. What are the different components that I need in that sales letter? Well, headlines and introduction and bullet points and all that sort of stuff. Right.

Get that down. And then I think it is important to copywriting. If you want to like, have those occasional breakaway hits to improvise every now and then.

Right. My music theory teacher always used to say like, Hey, learn the rules first, but then break them. Right. And you have to learn the rules before you can break them. And that’s, I think the point of. really making sure that you have some sort of improvisation in your skill development and practice, because even though you might not be worried about being the best in the world anymore, I think that’s how you can start to be really unique and stand out in interesting ways.

[00:27:44] Pat:
Ah, so great. Yeah. It’s really important to get the, the, the kind of rules that understand them and understand the components like you said, but then. You have to make them your own. If you want to stand out, you have to make them your own so that you’re just not copying somebody else, but you are actually evolving and actually potentially even surpassing them for those who are more interested in the way that you do, whatever it is that you do it, uh, the, the approach to it, the three eyes, I love that.

It reminds me of the way and you and I both were influenced by Tim Ferriss. So maybe there’s a little bit of that sort of in there as far as like, like when he’s learning a new language, right. Thousands of words that you could learn. And when he’s learning, you know, Japanese or Chinese, he just learns the 30 or 40 words that are most commonly used and most important and then goes out there.

And I remember there was a video, I think it was on an apple original or something like that, where he was trying to learn Tagalog or Filipino language. And he learned like the few amount of words that he needed to, to learn. Uh, and then he lived with a Filipino family and.

Integrated that into everyday life with them.

And then that way was able to sort of pick up a lot more, much faster, almost kind of being forced to, um, just like, if, well, if you have drums playing in the background and chords playing, I mean, you’re going to solo and it might not be great right initially, but you’re going to learn quickly what sounds good and what doesn’t.

So, uh, I really liked.

[00:29:02] Pat (guest):
I think that’s brilliant. I think you have to get comfortable making a mess early on and you can’t spend too much time. Isolating components that might not be relevant. I mean, yeah. Like how many words could you possibly learn? I don’t know. It’s gotta be a lot more than you probably need the same thing on guitar.

Like I could learn so many scales and bodes and cores, but like how many of those do I actually need to get the job done that I want to do? And how efficient is that versus just, okay. Here’s a song I want to learn. What do I need for that? And then, yeah, let me just start making a mess and I’ll, I’ll, I’ll clean it up as, as I go, right.

[00:29:33] Pat:
Perfect. Tell me about a funny Pat Flynn story makes up that you’ve had,

[00:29:39] Pat (guest):
Oh, oh boy. All right. So yeah, I got one a really quite embarrassing one. So we might as well just get it out there. Um, so, so I, so this, this lady, this latest book Right. So is with, uh, with Benbella they were a great publisher. Love my publishing experiences. I’m definitely, but good things to say with them. but you know, I made it known to them And they also knew that there’s more than one sort of Pat. And as you know, Pat, you know, publishers book you for different appearances and stuff like that, radio shows and this or that. So like, it was very clear like, Hey, if you’re going to book me for something, make sure they know, I’m not the other Pat Flint.

Right. And, uh, I don’t, I don’t, remember all the details, but like, uh, you know, I’m, I’m kind of scatterbrained. I am. And, and one time my publisher sent me an email, like, Hey, remember, you’re on this, this radio show today. I was actually in the park, my kids, and I’m on my phone, like, oh shoot. So I had to like run to my car and like, you know, call him to this, to this radio show.

And I kid you not Pat, we probably got, I don’t know, 20 minutes into this interview and it was going fine. It was going great. We talking about things and then. I think they mentioned one of your books at that point. And so it became clear to me that this entire time they thought that they were talking to the other pet foot.

So of course I can’t like, just keep like, pretend that I’m you. Right. But, but it’s been under this pretense to them that I’ve been talking, they’ve been talking to you the whole time. Right?

So that was a, that was a complete train wreck. I forgot how I even got it back on course. I think. Yeah. I just said, yeah, by the way, there’s, there’s two Pat Flynn’s out there.

So that was probably the worst one where it wasn’t just like somebody tagging me and getting it mixed up. But I was like deep into a radio interview where they were just live in the moment. So I can’t be like, Hey guys, stop the recording and let’s redo this one if you want to. So that’s fine. That’s probably the worst one that I have.

And I hope that that interview is just disappeared into the ether forever. Um, after that. So yeah, so that’s the one that’s always stood

[00:31:30] Pat:
Somebody might go out and find it.

[00:31:32] Pat (guest):
Yeah. If you do good luck, I don’t even remember who was with

[00:31:34] Pat:
Yeah, uh, just, uh, sorry, I don’t, I don’t know what to say. Uh, that’s. It’s just, it’s just interesting. Cause you know, a lot of people are creating personal brands and they’re not the only version of that name that’s out there, which is why I think it’s important to, you know, although we talk about.

Being a generalist and such, I mean, becoming known for something specific, I think is going to be what helps us stand out from the others. And like you said, understanding what makes you, you, and, you know, I always refer to you as kettlebell Pat Flynn whenever I talk about it with other people and, you know, people always come to me and think that I wrote your book and vice versa and it’s like, that’s okay.

I think it would be very easy for us to get upset at each other and try to take ownership of the other person’s stuff. And, you know, Hey, you’re confusing the audience, but I’m just grateful. Like, you’re a good person in a good soul that like, I’m actually okay. Being associated with you in this way. Right.

[00:32:27] Pat (guest):
Oh, well, thank you. That’s very kind.

[00:32:29] Pat:
You know, maybe if you were like, I don’t know, a serial killer or something, we’d have, we’d have a different conversation, but, I appreciate what you said earlier. You’re like, oh, you’re the O G or whatever, but, okay. But like you came in, I already had this

Name, you have the same name, How do you approach that? Like technically what are you doing as far as your social media accounts and like other things that were just like, well, we ha we, we are kind of competing on those kinds of platforms and such like, how do you think about that?

[00:32:54] Pat (guest):
I always have to add a qualifier, right? Like I’m Pat Flynn kettlebell or something like that because you’ve got all the handles. So you already, you already beat me, right? Um, no, first of all, if I want to, I want to echo the sentiments. I’m really glad you’re around because I guess I don’t have much to say, and I don’t do much in the business fear.

And I really wrote my latest book, not because I wanted to enter that realm, but because I was really interested to explore this idea of generalism and. It was sort of, brought about because of my activities as a business owner. So when people ask me like, Hey, you know, what else do you have on business stuff? I can just point to you and be like go, go, listen to Path of the other Path Flynn’s podcast. It’s really good. Right. I don’t have much else if you want some kettlebell stuff. So like, you know, I really don’t think we’re we’re really competitors in a sense, but even who we are, that’s, fine.

But no, I’m just glad your stuff is out there. Cause like, I think it just like is a natural place where people to go, if they’ve liked my book and they want to just dive deeper into internet marketing. Cause I don’t, I don’t want to have stuff on that. I don’t teach that, you know, I just have my book that’s it.

So it’s actually really nice that I have another Pat Flynn that I can just point people to on that. And then other than that, I just, I just think it’s funny. Uh, it’s never, it’s never bothered me. Like I said, uh, you were one of the early inspirations for me, for internet marketing to show me like this was a real possibility to make money online.

I had no idea you and Tim Ferriss’s four hour workweek at, at the time. And so, yeah, I’m grateful. I’m grateful for, for you being there at the time you were, which was like a very ripe moment for me to like, encounter that type of content. So you were definitely significant in my, uh, in my development, in this.

[00:34:29] Pat:
I appreciate that Pat. And you know, it’s, um, I’m not planning on doing any fitness related stuff. So if anybody’s listening to this and you’re in. You know how to fit fitness into your life as an entrepreneur whatever you have going on in your life. Go check out this Pat Flynn cause he’s got everything that you need.

That’s going on in.

One more time, Pat, where can people go to start their journey with you and kind of learn more about you? And again, we’ll have all the links on the show notes page for everybody, but where should they start?

[00:34:52] Pat (guest):
Yeah, thank you so much. is my primary website. You’ll find all sorts of fitness content there. My podcast, the Pat Flynn show, is a generalist podcast, so lots of different themes on there, but a lot of fitness stuff as well. And then my YouTube channel, Pat Flynn. It’s got a weird handle, but if you just look for Pat Flynn kettlebells on YouTube, it will pop right up.

[00:35:12] Pat:
Awesome. Thank you.

Maybe one day we’ll meet in person, get the other Pat Flynn involved, and we’ll just have a Pat Flynn party or something, and jam. I can play play instruments. I played the trumpet all throughout high school and college, I can even jam on the drums and you can riff over, and we can just, you know, have some fun. One of these days.

[00:35:32] Pat (guest):
I look forward to that day.

Thank you so much. This has been a ton of fun, Pat.

[00:35:36] Pat:
The super fun. Thanks Pat. Appreciate it.

Wasn’t that such a fun conversation? Pat and I connected and chatted a little bit more after the show. Honestly, I feel a connection to him, not just because of the name, but I love his philosophy. I love his approach to things, and you better check out his book and everything else that we have going on.

I want to know what you think about this. In fact, if you want to tag us on Twitter and let us know that you listened to this conversation, I am @PatFlynn. I nabbed that username before he did. And he’s @PatFlynnCOS, which stands for his brand at Chronicles of Strength. If you’re interested in fitness, kettlebells, and other things of that nature definitely check him out.

I’m so excited to connect with him finally. Maybe one day we’ll have a Pat Flynn convention of sorts, or something. I don’t know. We’ll see what happens.

I hope you enjoyed this episode. Thank you so much, and I look forward to serving you in the next episode. We’ve got a lot of great stuff coming your way, so hit that subscribe button if you haven’t already, and I look forward to serving you in the next one.

Cheers, peace out, and as always, Team Flynn for the win, from both of us. Awesome.

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