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SPI 575: How to Sell It Like a Mango with Donald C. Kelly

Today I’m joined by Donald C. Kelly. Donald is known as The Sales Evangelist — his new book Sell It Like a Mango teaches how to close more deals.

When I asked why it’s called Sell It Like a Mango, Donald told me about how his parents used to sell mangoes in Jamaica, and how everybody else was also selling mangoes. If everyone’s selling the same thing, how do you succeed? How do you stand out?

We’re gonna dive into that today and learn exactly how to become a salesperson whether you have a unique product or not.

It takes a certain kind of approach and a certain kind of method and finesse. Donald describes his system to us today and tells us about his new book Sell It Like a Mango. It’s a short, quick read, but very powerful.

I’ve known Donald for quite some time, and it’s great to have him here on the show. I think this is going to change a lot of people’s lives!

Today’s Guest

Donald C. Kelly

Donald is known as The Sales Evangelist. He teaches effective ways salespeople and entrepreneurs can find more qualified prospects, close more deals, and make more money.

Donald wasn’t always good at sales. He lost plenty of deals, had a fear of rejection, and learned a lot of things that did not work. After reading books, receiving training, and learning from other top-performing experts Donald began to achieve significant success. 

He began to evangelize everything he learned about sales on his podcast. In no time, salespeople from all over the world were practicing these principles and began to see their own improvements.

You’ll Learn


SPI 575: How to Sell It Like a Mango with Donald C. Kelly

[00:00:00] Donald:
Oftentimes we may have a fantastic idea; we have something that we want to improve the world with. We want to do something about it, but we’re so afraid of rejection that we are not willing to open the gate, or open our mouth, or get out and put ourself out there.

But that’s what you need to do. It’s that vulnerability that helps us. Nobody knew what I had to offer because I didn’t know what I had to offer.

[00:00:43] Pat:
This book right here, Sell It Like a Mango, by my man, Donald Kelly. This is really cool because it reminds me of when I met Donald in 2012 or 2013. It was an event called Podcast Movement. I met a lot of people at that event, but I very specifically remember meeting Donald because he was very, very interested in what I had going on at the time.

It reminds me of a quote that my coach and mentor, James Schramko from SuperFastBusiness, always says, “You got to stop trying to be so interesting and start getting interested.” That’s exactly what Donald was. He was interested in what I had going on back then.

That’s how he stood out to me. That’s how I remembered him, which is exactly why, when he told me he was writing this book, I was just like, “Dude, I got to get you on the show.”

When I asked why it’s called Sell It Like a Mango, he told me about his parents and how they lived in Jamaica, and it’s like everybody was selling mangoes. So if everybody’s selling the same thing, how do you succeed? Well, you have to be a good salesperson.

Donald is now known as the Sales Evangelist, which I absolutely love, and his new book is going to teach us. So, we’re gonna dive into it today and learn exactly how to become a salesperson whether you have a unique product or not.

Of course you do want to have something unique. You want to have something worth talking about. You want to have the ability to stand out with your product. But what if the product was all the same? Like everybody’s selling mangoes. How do you stand out?

Well, it takes a certain kind of approach, and a certain kind of method and finesse to it, which Donald describes to us today. You can find him at He has a podcast of the same name, and of course, like I said, the author of the new book Sell It Like a Mango. A short, quick read, but very powerful.

I think this is going to change a lot of people’s lives. I highly recommend you check it out, and my good friend Donald is here with us. Again, the Sales Evangelist. Here he is. I hope you enjoy.

Donald, welcome to the Smart Passive Income Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today.

[00:02:39] Donald:
I feel so good to hear that I’m on the Smart Passive Income Podcast. I’m excited to be here, Pat. Thank you for having me on.

[00:02:45] Pat:
I know you used to listen to the show. We actually met in person quite often at events like podcast movement. And it’s cool to reconnect. Now. It’s been a while. I know that you’ve had a kid since then. I have now almost a teenager since then, a lot has happened and we’ll get into a lot of the things that are happening right now for you, including this incredible book that really lays out sales and how to do it.

Right. We’ll get into that in a minute, but tell me a little bit about your origin story. How did you get into sales and, like your brand and kind of, where did this all begin?

[00:03:13] Donald:
Yeah. So I grew up, I was born in Jamaica, moved to United States when I was nine. And as a kid, everyone in Jamaica selling, like if you ever been to the country, you see that.

It has one of the most amazing education system, but one of those biggest export it’s it’s people, people will come to the U S or to Canada, England for opportunities.

So when you’re there and you don’t, you have a great education, you have a job, you figure out things. So people became entrepreneurial. And my mom and dad, and a lot of my family, my aunt would come to the U S to Miami and byproducts and take it to south Florida. I mean, to Jamaica and sell it. And that’s what I grew up around.

I didn’t see it as sales. I just saw it as. I guess survival or, you know, just being a businessman as they would say. So fast forward. When I came to the us, when I wanted to earn money, I decided to go to candy stores. I would go to Albertsons and, and, the grocery store and buy bulk candy and the discount price and take it to school and sell it.

And when I wanted to earn money in high school, I created a little business with my friends and started selling. And when I went into college, my buddies. Dude, you should definitely go into sales. And I never knew the formal process of it. I just also, this is business Pat. and, I started investigating sales roles and I worked in a company where I did a dish network.

And then I went to a company where we got people to go to timeshare presentation. I was one of those guys and then I did a server role. I eventually did door to door security, and then I eventually finally. Got into selling like it training classes to companies and to governments. And it was really fascinating.

And in college, one of my professors had this book that he had us read from guy Kawasaki, the art of the start and guy mentioned in that book or the bio we read about him that he was Apple’s chief evangelist. And I’m like chief evangelists. The only time I’ve ever heard evangelist was in church, but it’s such a rich descriptive term.

I was like, man, that sounds really interesting. So when I got out of college and I got into one of my first roles, And, it did well there. And I went into another position. They didn’t have business cards that are creating business cards for us. And they said, what do you want to put on your business cards?

And everyone had account executive. And I went, remember going to this networking event. And we, like everyone was saying, I’m an account executive account executive. I’m like, man, it sounds so lame. So I came back and I was like, can I change my name on a card? And they said, yes, what do you want? And I put, put the technology evangelist and I had just gotten on the iPad too.

Just came out at that time. And I got up on this bar stool and I was like the next event. My name is Donald Kelly. I’m the technology evangelist. My company has gone to the mountain pot top and back, and we’ve come with technology to help your small business. And it was like amazing. Everyone afterwards was like, oh man, blah, blah, blah.

Let’s connect. And it was all because I figured out a way to do D.

And I kept using that. So fast forward, I went into another company into where I met my friend mutual friend, Jared easily. And we were at a, this document management company and we were, he was the account, excuse me, the project manager.

And I was the, the sales rep and we worked together on demos and things of that nature. And, finally, Jared has started his podcast and then Jerry. Had asked me, he said, Donald, you should do a podcast. And I’m like, what would I do a podcast on? It’s like, dude, you’re always talking about sales.

You’re like evangelist for sales. And I was like, bro, that’s the title I used before the technology evangelist. So the sales evangelists became a thing and that led to the development of the podcast and, and all the glory that came from that. And that’s the origin story. And, and obviously there’s a, some time in there Pat, where I was taking my train rides and I was listening to smart, passive income.

[00:06:42] Pat:
Yeah. No, thank you. I appreciate that. And what a great story. I mean, selling ever since you’re a kid, I mean, you’ve got a lot of experience. I think a lot of us who are learning to sell now, it’s very difficult for us because of.

The only selling we knew is when people were selling stuff to us and it just didn’t really feel good, even though honestly selling happens all the time in all different kinds of ways and all different kinds of formats.

What were the sort of biggest lessons you learned growing up with regards to sales and standing out that helped you the most? I know this is kind of what your book is about as well. I mean, give us the title of the book and why is it titled that way? Cause I think it’s.

[00:07:15] Donald:
Yeah, the book is called, Sell It Like a Mango. it’s a new seller’s guide to closing more deals. And as a kid, I remember once my cousin had me pick mangoes in this tree, in our front yard.

And, I was, I didn’t fall out of the tree. So it was like, okay, now you’re a mango paper, but pick mangoes. And I remember one day I was like, They all like mango, maybe buil people want to buy mangoes. I see my family sells stuff. So I got these mangoes and my aunt had this nice, like plant stand in her front yard where I was living with them.

And I took all the plants off this front yard and we put the mangoes on it. And, I understand. And I was sitting there on Saturday morning and I was waiting for people to buy the mango. And no one bought a mango. and I was upset because I really wanted to buy this light. It was almost Christmas time and they had these like nice little, a, this motorcycle.

This guy was on a motorcycle and I was like, man, that’s super cool. I would love to be able to get that later in a year for, you know, the holidays and I could not. I didn’t raise enough money to buy that little guy on a motorcycle. and, the, the, the idea though, what the biggest lesson I learned when I look back on it and I was like, why didn’t I sell mangoes Pat?

I was behind a gate. I did not open the gate. To have people come in because I assumed that, you know, family come into the gate and friends come into the gate and I was hiding behind. I wasn’t even out on the street. Imagine having your kids out, selling, selling cookies from the garage, the garage door closed, and that’s the equivalent of what I did.

And one of the biggest things that I learned. Oftentimes we may have as an entrepreneur, we have a fantastic idea. We have something that we want to improve the world with. We want to do something about it, but we’re not, we’re so afraid of rejection that we are not willing to open a gate or open our mouth or get out and put ourself out there.

But that’s what you need to do. It’s that vulnerability at time that helps us. And in my case, nobody, nobody knew what I had to offer because it didn’t know what I had to do. And I think in, in, in, I saw it in my business at one point when I first became an entrepreneur, I knew how to sell, but again, I was just as afraid of rejection because somebody could reject the software, reject, go into a timeshare presentation or reject the ITC services or whatever we were doing.

But however, rejecting me was super hard to take. And I think that’s what happened as a kid. and that’s one of the biggest lessons you’ve got to put yourself out there though, if you do want to make sales and if you want to be successful,

[00:09:42] Pat:
Yeah, the tunnel it’s, so scary. I mean, we might get rejected. We might see that other people are doing it better than we are. We might fail. So it’s better to stay safe in here.

[00:09:53] Donald:
Yeah. I think it’s, it’s protective in, in some instances. but you know, I it’s the risk. That’s what it all comes down to. And especially if you’re willing to be an entrepreneur to take a risk with your business. Why not take a risk with selling and what’s the worst that can happen. I had a sales trainer that always said this Path, he said on a scale of zero to death, where does this fall in place? And as I would, if you really think about that, I’m like, okay, well it’s not death. So I guess it’s not that, that bad. And he would say, okay, then just do it. Just try it.

[00:10:25] Pat:
So the thing is like, sale selling happens all the time. It’s not just selling your products, it’s selling a message. It’s selling a mission. It’s selling the advice. You’re giving your kids. It’s selling your spouse on the trip that you want to take, because you’re going to be leading the house or whatever it might be.

So, what is your method of selling? How do we take all this knowledge in this book, in your history and your coaching? How do we approach sales in a way that’s not just going to work, but also does also just doesn’t have us feeling like slime all the time.

[00:10:55] Donald:
There is a quote by Jeffrey Gitomer, who said people love to buy, but they hate to be sold. And when I think about that, that’s the methodology kind of idea that we’ve come along with. We recognize that people love to buy in the old school way of looking at sales or persuasion. It’s the ideas that you’re going to, you’re going to trick somebody into doing something.

That may, they may not necessarily want to do, but it’s because you’re so persuasive, but that’s not being a salesperson. That’s being a con artist. And I remember watching movies like boiler room back in the days. And I would think, man, these guys are so good. They just like did all this trick to get this person to buy.

But when you look at it, that’s not professional selling and a great sellers. They don’t necessarily make movie about great salespeople. They make movies about people who were, who were swindlers and who were, who tricked. And, and I think that’s the notion that people have. So when you come and look at a good.

But a good sales process. It’s about educating. It’s about, it’s about teaching. It’s helping someone to make decision on something that’s in their best interests. It’s helping them persuade themselves on something that’s in their best interest for which they may compensate you as a natural byproduct. and in some cases we don’t get compensated.

If we convince our, you know, our spouse or partner to go to cheesecake tonight, rather than, rather than eat home, you, you help persuade them. And is there something that’s in their best interest for that? Of course, We are big on the idea of asking questions. How can we get to understand the word person is before we can help them decide or help them to guide them to where they can go or could go. And when you were able to go attack sales, from that perspective, it makes a world of difference. Donald Miller teaches the idea of being a guide from Joseph Campbell’s hero’s journey.

As a sales professional, our job is to be the guide. Our job is not to be the hero it’s to help them. I’ve been to that position. I’ve been to that Path. I’ve worked with clients just like you. Therefore here are some of the roadblocks and challenges that we’ve seen. Are you seeing any of these right? And if you are, here’s a way that you can get around that.

And because I share that expertise and able to be that guide and natural, it leads to more opportunities and it’s fascinating how it happens. So that’s the process that we go through when we were, when we were going through a, a sales situation.

[00:13:08] Pat:
Thank you for that. I mean, that’s a great way to reframe this and the education pieces. I find very, very important. what are the different kinds of ways you could use a, either a call or content or anything like that in order to, to educate a person to then open up to this idea that you have something else to offer, right?

You’re not just talking to somebody and saying, Hey, buy my thing. Like you said, you’re asking questions and educating, but give me more specifics on what that might look like, or, or, or perhaps even in an example, if you have.

[00:13:38] Donald:
Sure we have something that we call the blind side challenge. There’s other people call it different terms or whatnot, but I, I love, American football and in American football, the quarterback, and unfortunately it does. He only has two wives. So if the quarterback has turned to the right, trying to throw down, feel, can’t see anything really coming from the left.

So there’s a guard that’s protecting the blind side of the quarterback, the way we want to look at it as your buyers, your prospects, people you’re selling to, they have blind sides. And oftentimes they may not necessarily know what those blind side challenges or blind side issues. Something that if it hits them, could put them out of business, could hurt them really bad.

Could make them lose.

So for instance, let’s say if I’m a, I’m a sales leader. and, and since that’s one of the areas that we spend a lot of our time w sales leaders, they want to increase and they want to improve their company’s performances. Some of the things that may be right in their peer view could be, you know, I need my sales team to make better calls.

And my sales teams is not closing enough deals. My sales reps are, are not, you know, using LinkedIn or so forth. So. Things in their site. Is there something that they’re unaware of that they’re not seeing, maybe something that the data can prove or from our experiences in the past. some of the things that we’ve seen is that with onboarding a lot of times, Onboard sales reps, and they will do some costs with them to recognize that, you know, it’s going to take six to nine months for this person to perform what we do.

We look at the data and we see when they’re hiring and we say, you know, you can short change or cut off three months off that seller’s time to ramp if you do X, Y, and Z. And that’s where our processes come in. So we’ll give them advice and tips something. That’s a blind side challenge, something they’re not necessarily focused on.

They’re not paying attention. Yeah. If they were to fix this, it could really help their bottom line or help them in some other way. And there’s other blind side things that sellers can find. You can do research in your industry. Maybe there’s a regulatory change. That’s coming down the pipe that maybe most of your prospects aren’t worried about, but it’s a blind site.

It’s going to hit them like a train. If they don’t make a change with that, your job is to be able to educate them on that blind side. The things that’s right in their peer review, we can help your sales team to close more deals. We can help your sales team to use the social media. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That’s not compelling enough.

What’s there that they’re not seeing that you can help to make an impact with. And, I mean more research based on industries can really help with that as well.

[00:16:00] Pat:
Yeah, let’s go through maybe a hypothetical example. Let’s pretend that I have a call tomorrow with a prospective buyer for a house. Right. And they’re not quite quite sold on the house yet, but I have this opportunity to chat with them, to sell them on. That they can buy. I’m a real estate agent, for example, and Donald, I need some help because I’m, I’m afraid.

I don’t know if I’m going to say the right things. How do I, how do I close this person tomorrow?

[00:16:24] Donald:
Yeah. So, I mean, there’s a couple of things right now. I think it’s probably easy. I just came from a convention with a couple of clients who are in real estate. but a couple of things, one of the things that’s probably gonna be easy right now is just a timeframe. So we might say, you know, typically most.

Buyers might think they have a world. if they go into a deal and they were to put the asking price and even bring cash, they’re going to be well. Well, because I know more because we’ve done this so much, I might say, you know, Pat, or you might bring out to the client, say, Pat, right now it’s urgency.

It’s a time. It’s the key is for you to act fast. If you don’t do this, what’s let me tell you what’s going to happen. They’re going to be three other bidders. Because this is what happened on my last deal. And they’re putting in, you know, 50 to 60,000 more than asking price. And besides that as well, they’re also bringing cash to the table.

So if you’re thinking about this house, I want to ask why, why do you want this house right now? And if you, if it’s so compelling enough for you to want this house, what are you willing to do to get this house? If not, we can look for another property, but I want to get from you. The buyer then will probably tell me, well, I really just need a bigger place.

I really need a house right now. We’re moving to Kansas city and this is a, and we have to, because we’re going to not have our property. Well, if that’s the case, this is what’s going to happen. Here’s how you can prepare for that. And let’s go ahead. And, and what, you know, get from them, what they’re willing to do when you ask somebody, what are you willing to do?

What are some of the things that you’re going to. To do, or how do you feel that you want to proceed with this? It’s amazing. What, when you shape them with that mindset, you give them what the problems are. Give them some scenarios, scenarios. Like we just did made up with this, you know, asking price or whatnot.

They will start figuring out ways to do. The traditional sales professional or traditional salespeople would be to pressured them to say, you got to do it now. You got to do it now. But when you frame it like that, you give them a blind side, a knowledge things that they’re not necessarily don’t have access to.

You did this data because you’ve worked with like the past five deals. And you’ve seen this before. When you bring something like that to the table, it helps them to be able to understand better, be better educated, and able to make a better decision when it comes down to it. It’s all around education

[00:18:33] Pat:
Yeah, I like the, it almost feels like a partway, like a coaching call, right? Like I could imagine going into this. And like you said earlier, asking questions and not trying to provide pressure through just aggressively. But rather provide pressure, which is important to make a decision through their own self-discovery of the consequences of not taking action now or their own self-discovery of just how really great this is.

You know, a lot of people are apprehensive to make a deal or to say yes, because they want to. Things open and there might be another deal that comes around, sooner. But if we can have a person understand that this is the perfect opportunity and it’s the right time in that every day that goes by is, you know, a potential for this deal to go away or, or, you know, just delaying the ultimate outcome, then I think it could definitely help a person understand more that Okay. Well, like, yeah. You know, I guess you’re right. It’s almost like inception. If you can get the other person to kind of say those things or discover those things through the questions that You ask. Well, then the sales just becomes like a natural conclusion to that entire conversation, right? Like closing. kind of happens automatically if You have the right conversation.

[00:19:41] Donald:
Yeah, we have a philosophy that we share that you start closing a deal in the discovery phase, and I’m not going back to that Alec Baldwin idea of always be closing. Not that not Glen Gary, Glen Ross. It’s kind of the opposite. You don’t need to. You know, start to say, well, you know, Pat, you know, if today’s today’s right day, you want to sign on a dotted line.

That’s not the always be closing. It’s about if you can help build, if you understand enough problems, if you can help build enough value in your initial call with a prospect you’re way likely to increase your chances of that deal converting. Because at that point, because you understand their problem and you are able to explain the problem in some ways better than they can.

They start believing. That you can guide them throughout the remainder of the process. If you just try to rush through everything and just the feature and benefit it’s as a discolor. And, you know, we have this many of them, if you just do that approach and then get to the end and try to do trick to close the deal, it won’t work because

[00:20:37] Pat:

[00:20:37] Donald:
Are more educated than ever.

[00:20:38] Pat:
Now let’s go back to this mango thing. I love that analogy. And the fact that you were selling mangoes as a young kid, and you know, the one thing about mangoes is like most mangoes are mostly the same, right? And however, there’s a lot of people selling the mangoes and some people will do really well selling those mangoes and others will not other than being where people are and stepping outside of that gate or opening up the gate.

What else can we do to stand out of the competition and to get people to choose us versus. Others right. There might be maybe an RFP, right. But there’s like 10 RFPs request for proposals and 10 different companies, all fighting for the same persons, you know, deal. How do you, in that situation stand out from others who are kind of offering the same kind of thing in the end. How do you differentiate yourself?

[00:21:24] Donald:
Well, I told a story and then I’ll answer that question with it as well. in 2017, my family went to Jamaica. My wife was the first. Time, we, we went, first time it was on a cruise. That I took her first. I was on a cruise and the second time was we just went back and all of our family went and did all the fun stuff that you would do with your family and Jamaica.

We went to get us to a souvenir shop the last day and this like, just like a typical souvenir area. It was like in this almost like a flea market and all of these different stalls and everyone was, you know, reaching out and trying to sell stuff to you and whatnot. But there’s this one lady, she was an old time.

She had done this before. She probably been there for like 15, 20 years selling and she understood that she needed to do something different than everybody else. Everyone was clamoring and saying, buy our products, buy our trinket. But she was just stoic and just sitting back and chill. And because of that differentiation, we were able to, we walk when we finally walked past her booth, she just said, hi, and just started a natural conversation with us.

She noticed what everyone else was doing. And instead of pitching, she had a conversation that conversation led us to step into her. From that conversation. It led us to look at some of her things she didn’t try to sell us are big and expensive things. She was like, look at this key chain, tell me what you think or what not.

And we started looking at a key chain and I fell in love with the darn key chain. And I was like, you know what? Let’s hold on to this. What about that as well? And we started having more conversation. We ended up spending all of us, end up sending money with this lady and buying things from her because one thing she stood out different and she found a better way to have a conversation rather than try to pitch to us.

So let’s go back to this RFP and I’ve worked with clients with RFPs when you come to an RFP. Everyone has the same exact thing. But when you look at RFPs, if you really, really want to be successful, go in the past. This company has submitted RFPs before, find out who were a part of that RFP committee and reach out and connect with them on LinkedIn.

You’re not going to try to manipulate anyone and people are going to have their information on, on the RFP as well. But there’s a decision making committee connect with those individual and start to make some kind of contact and start. You can re you can send emails to these people before the RFP is doing it.

Questions you can ask worthwhile or thought-provoking questions. That’s going to be able to be helpful if there’s an RFP summons, I guess an announcement where they bring all the vendors together, potential vendors. You’re going to be able to sit down and ask questions. Your job to do that before you come to this RFP meeting is to go back and look and see what are some of the deals that they’ve done in the past.

And maybe ask questions related to those about how that process went and the way that they structured it. Perhaps they may not necessarily have a template yet for their RFP, if you’re willing to provide value by having a template. When we, when we worked in city county governments and just straight up truth, we saw that oftentimes if we were provided a template, it made us, it helped us to be able to perform better.

Now, some governments won’t accept that, but the point is, you’re going to look for ways that you can stand out and to be different by connecting and being able to be a human, because what will happen naturally, Pat, is that they’re going to see. Person that they’re everywhere. We believe in the omni-channel approach.

And we also believe in multithreading and multithreading essentially, as I’ve been more than one connection, usually people will find that main correspondent person on RFP and speak with them. But your job is to find all of the influencers and even the people who won’t necessarily be decision makers, but they may have some kind of interaction with the solution.

And yet. And make some kind of connection with them. And if you can do that, that’s going to help you to stand out a lot from, from the competition. If they’re using your template, that’s going to be even better. But you know, not all of the situations where you can do that, but that’s how I would be like that lady.

I wouldn’t just sit back and just submit my RFP and just throw stuff up in the air and wait and hope and pray. I would try to find ways that I can be able to make value, create value with these people. And even if I don’t win this RFP, I’ve built a strong connection for when the next RF becomes because that city county government, where the organization is going to submit more and more.

And the more that your name pops up as that added value, as someone in that arena, it increases your likelihood of getting an at bat.

[00:25:22] Pat:
Yeah, I mean, so true. I mean, it really comes down to relationships. It comes down to providing value and that those are things that we hear the online world all the time and whether it’s online or offline. On a call or in a group situation or with a more asynchronous RFP situation. It doesn’t matter. I think relationships plus value equals at least a higher likelihood of success beyond like the baseline.

Obviously you have to have your RFPs filled out, you know, and, and, and your response kind of, and templates for them and whatnot. great. So when it comes to sales online, And let’s talk about little higher ticket prices, right? Because the higher ticket prices are where we have to consider. Okay, well, we can’t just do a webinar and sell.

We have to, you know, get on a call with somebody. And so getting on a call with somebody to try to convince them, to buy, for example, an online course, an online course, that’s going to take, you know, so many hours to watch and all those kinds of things. What are, what are the biggest things that a beginner sales person.

I can understand to be able to close or at least convince this person that they have the product that would make sense for them. How would you help a beginning, a sales person to understand how to, how to manage that conversation?

[00:26:39] Donald:
Well, this one is pretty simple and it’s simpler in the sense that the person is already going to have some kind of relationship with you. They came to your website, they already build rapport with you. So you got that part down to. Be don’t be like everybody else. And one of the trainers that I had back in the days when I first started off selling, he taught us this principle of setting the rules before you play the game.

So most people on that call, they would say, well, I’m getting on a call with Donald. Donald is going to try to convince me to buy his first. Right out the gate, tell him, you know, Hey Pat, I’m super excited. You got a chance to sit down and talk to me. w I want to just kind of let you know a set of rules.

Like I know that, be realistic. I, don’t not everyone that I communicate with buy from me. and as we go through this conversation, if there’s anything that I share about our program and about the way that we have our PR, the course, if it feels like it’s not going to be a fit for you, would you be open and willing to let me know that.

[00:27:34] Pat:

[00:27:35] Donald:
Then vice-versa, if, from what you tell me, you’re looking for, because I recognize my course, it’s not going to be for everybody. If what you’re looking for is not what we’re able to deliver, or it’s not going to make sense in this course. I’m sure you’re open to me letting you know that upfront sooner.


[00:27:49] Pat:
I like that set the rules up.

[00:27:51] Donald:
Yeah, it disarms them. So did not feel like this is going to be a high pressure because when you hear high ticket sales, you’re like, yeah, this is one call close. We got to get this sucker done. And then you just start going into it. Hopefully you can set an agenda. I might say, Pat. So talk to me, tell me what you would like to, what would you like to have learned to consider this as a great, as a successful conversation?

45 minutes from now? Then you’re telling me what Donald, you know, would love to learn about this. I’d love to know about this part of the program. I’d love to know about this, and then don’t jump in. You ask, is there anything else because that’s where the magic is going to be? well, you know, I’m also trying to look at this as well in this and this.

Perfect. We’ll go ahead and tackle that. And then the last five minutes here, Pat, what we’ll do at the last five minutes of this conversation is I would, I’m gonna, I’m gonna stop it, you know, five till, and then we can determine next step, if it makes sense for you to continue with us or if it doesn’t make sense, does that sound okay?

[00:28:43] Pat:
Sounds good.

[00:28:43] Donald:
So then now I give you the opportunity to jump out at any time you have, you’re an emergency seat. So you could open a door and jump out a plane to I’m going to tackle and give you exactly what you want, because maybe the person I just spoken to really doesn’t need the same exact thing that you’re looking for.

You know, like you really want to find out if, if this program is going to be helpful for somebody with a, you know, one. $10 million in revenue and maybe the other person they have, you know, $15 million. Plus, is there going to be a difference in that category or maybe they’re your concern and more about the videos?

How long are the videos I’m going to sell you based sold it to you based on what you want rather than. I feel is important. And when I’m able to do that and answer your questions, it makes so much better of a difference. The other thing that I’m going to do is that every point that you ask, I’m going to use a story to help solidify that because we know that People are able to retain information seven times more. When are facts seven times more when it’s done in a story rather than the straight stats. So if you’re concerned about videos, the videos I can’t do long video. Well, I, Hey, I totally understand where you’re coming from with that. Pat, let me tell you about our videos, our videos.

They tend to be anywhere from about seven to 10 minutes in length. Now, some people want to get shorter videos in three minutes. Let me tell you one of my clients, they were really concerned about video length as well, and what we did with them once they saw that our video was more interactive with the workbook.

They realized that the five minutes to seven minutes wasn’t that long after all, they’re able to get a lot more from it in that situation when it comes to that time of video from five to seven minutes, if you are able to be interactive in that, would that be helpful for you?

You know what I mean? So

[00:30:18] Pat:
Great. Yeah. That’s.

[00:30:20] Donald:
Using stories to solidify the points that you find important.

And now when I get done, you’re like my goodness, this was a great. Donald know how to sell to me. No, I don’t because you told me what you wanted. I just gave you what exactly what you want. And then the last five minutes, we have a conversation. You must establish that because too often I find entrepreneurs, they get really squeamish at the end.

They’re like, okay. So, yeah. So th th th the next course starts in a few months. yeah. So you just let me know, Pat, just let me know if you’re interested. No, at this point, Pat, based on what I share with you today, do you feel that this could help. Yeah, I feel this could help me. All right. So with that, our course begins in October.

You’d mentioned that you want to start something this fall. Does it make sense for, do you jump into the October program while we still have some room? Yeah. Makes sense. All right. Great. So what would be better? Do you want to pay for it all up front or would you like to do more of the payment plan? Which one makes better sense for you?

All right. Let’s get you set up.

[00:31:16] Pat:

[00:31:16] Donald:
That’s what I do.

[00:31:18] Pat:
That was good, man. That was great. I love the idea of having essentially the person you are selling to guide the sales process, essentially. Cause those, those are the things you want to do when you want to crush those objections. And I love how you use story in there to support that. Like somebody else who went through this had the same feelings and then also has come out of this really well.

On the other end, this is where I feel like. Had Stu McLaren here on the show before he is somebody who knows, like, it feels like he knows every customer that has gone through his programs and each of their stories, each of their struggles, each of their challenges, and then each of their big wins. And I think he knows most of them.

And I also know he keeps track of those on an Excel sheet so that when he’s on a call or when he’s on a webinar and a person has an objection or he’s on a podcast and a person goes, well, what about this? He always is able to support. And teach through a story of one of his previous students. So I love how you sort of brought that in and you know, that just is a good reminder to keep track of those before afters the transformations that you offer others so that you can use those as ammunition in your, in your calls and in your promotions ahead of time.

How do you transfer this kind of thought of.

Knowing exactly what the individual might need help with. And you able to counter that very easy on a sales call because it’s right there in real time. Are there ways that we can do this in a more scalable manner or perhaps it’s a lower price item where you’re not getting on a call necessarily, but it’s still important to crush those objections.

How would you recommend doing that perhaps?

[00:32:47] Donald:
I love videos I just had was on a call with Ethan, from BombBomb. and we use live video, utilize video in our process a lot. So let’s say on my sales page, if that’s the case, you know, you, you may have, some, some things there. you can, or let’s say if it’s on the sales page and when you have the frequently asked section of your website, Easily answer some of those, with the form of a video, people can read through that, but there’s something that happens when we can use engage someone in more senses than one.

So if I, if I know that, you know, somebody is going to ask one of my frequently asked questions, like, you know, the, can I, what if I miss a session or can I, what if I don’t like it? Can I get the. Answer that in a form of a video, they can see you, they can hear you, and then they, you can describe it in a way that’s going to be more effective than just text alone.

So I might say at the bottom of the website, it’s like, you know, three, you know, those, the top five things and just some short videos that I might put on there. you know, what if I miss. Hey, it’s totally fine. If you miss a class, you’re going to be able to get access to the recording. It’s going to be cohort based and so forth.

However, I do encourage that you come to every class because I want to make sure you get the most from your bang from your book. That way there’s so much. CRISPR and they get Donald rather than just the text come to every class or, you know, or whatnot. you think about it again in different parts of your sales process.

Even if you’re not, I have friends who have funnels that they send out emails in those emails. You can simply send the video as well. We all know at that point that a video isn’t going to be a super personalized video, but if it Taylor’s enabled to help me understand it, to make decision better, that’s so much, so much more effective.

Again, they’re going to say. They can hear me. They can understand my reaction and that’s better communication than just one layer of just sending texts, communication, to that prospect. And then also, if it’s somebody that’s like at scale, like somebody like, you know, like you Pat, like, you know, a lot of people watch your stuff and look up to you and dissect your content.

But now I’m seeing a video from Pat it’s like, holy moly. All right, let me perk up and actually watch this thing and see what he has to share. And the beautiful part about that too, is that you can see the analytics of those. So your team can recognize and see, well, you know, Donald watched that video, just like if you’re using some of your, you know, different email marketing platform.

That can trigger other activities. and that may, may lead to a, you know, a, an, further personal outreach or, you know, obviously more upsell because this person is clearly interested in some of the things that’s going on, but that’s where you can scale it. But I’m a big, big, big believer in video, especially in this day and age.

[00:35:20] Pat:
Yeah, I love that. So videos, to answer certain questions, videos, to respond to just commonly known objections, you know, even through an email funnel or on a sales page itself. I love that idea and I think there’s great companies BombBomb I’ve I’ve heard you talk about, bond euros is one that I’m very familiar with an orange.

That’s a great idea. You know, I think that you’re right. If, again, going back to, well, what are you going to do to stand out? Well, a little bit of video could go a very, very long way in doing that because most others aren’t going to go to that level. And I think that so many people are online selling now that we’re starting to see, you know, a lot of saturation in terms of just the, how to write, but what’s never going to be saturated is extra care, right.

Extra care, extra concern. And, you know, those little details, like you said, Go a long way. So, you know, as we finish up here, what is another big lesson that we can pull out from sell like a mango, that, that we can kind of take with us after listening to this?

[00:36:16] Donald:
Yeah. I mean, there’s so many mistakes that I’ve made over the years. one of the things that I would say is you seek first to entertain than to educate, especially when it comes to words, selling more and you do this well because you entertain by providing great content. And it so happens that people will get educated by that.

And when you think about it in a sale, sometimes we feel that we have to be so proper and we have to be so professional and it’s like, People want to be entertained. So what I mean by entertained or, you know, figure out a way that you can help that person to, to, to, I guess, garner or a connect with you further.

Let’s give a simple example in a B2B space. Like, one guy I know, he sent out that email recently and on this email to this prospect, He sang because he saw that this prospect was in a glee, you know, some choir in college or whatever, and part of the ugly. So he started off singing to this, this prospect, and then it was, I can’t, I’m not going to attempt to do the singing that he did, but he sang a song and of course the person’s going to respond to that.

They saw that and it made a sense it, they opened it and they responded to it. And then, he was able to do. Quote-unquote but he first sought to entertain and then educated, similar things that you can do when it comes towards reaching out to somebody, you know, totally cold on like LinkedIn is that you don’t want to, don’t be the peop the person that’s going to pitch them on your product at that point.

I’m going to look for ways to be able to praise or point out something that you’re doing. That’s amazing. So if I saw that you, your company just donated, you know, $50,000 to the boys and girls club, I might see your posts instead of coming to all your posts alone, which I would, I would then go out on LinkedIn and say, Hey, I just read a post by Pat Flynn talking about how their organization donated a hundred thousand dollars to the boys and girls.

Fantastic. You don’t find companies doing this these days. I mean, what are some of the, who are some of the companies out there, you know, about this, putting their money where their mouth is, comments down below. Now Pat’s going to get notified about this and you’re gonna get all these other people now.

I’m, it’s not necessarily like I’m entertaining, but I’m doing. doing something, that’s going to give you some attention, which may then lead to the natural email that I’m going to send him like, Hey, Pat, Donald here. I, you know, we, we connected on LinkedIn. I shared your posts, love what you’re doing now.

You’re going to be more than willing to listen to me because I entertained or provided value educated some way. And then it came back to my product.

[00:38:43] Pat:
Awesome. I mean, there’s so much we can unpack here. And obviously the book has a ton of information. The book at the time that this episode comes out, we’ll be out in less than a week. So

[00:38:53] Donald:

[00:38:53] Pat:
Us where we can go get the book and where we can go find more info.

[00:38:57] Donald:
Yeah. If you can find a book on Amazon and Barnes and Nobles and all those amazing places online, if you want to get the first chapter for free, just to, before you make the decision to purchase it, you can go to the sales, and you can download the first chapter. And once you’re hooked there, you’ll see the link to go ahead and purchase it on, on Amazon and, and get access to it.

That’s where I hang out. And that’s where I’d love to. I’d love to have you come and meet with me and, and, and camp out. And I just want to be a big supporter of just tell you guys I’m a big fan of SPI. My, I can, I can say in all truthfulness that the business wouldn’t be words. If it wasn’t for SPI was, going to train.

And I remember your train rides and you talking about that. but I was taking a train to work to Boca Raton, and I would listen to your show and get home and then write down stuff. I would listen to people that you recommended and get their books. And I just was like a mad scientist, just hustling and I’m doing, doing stuff and now we have a business and now we have a book coming out.

So I just want to tell you Pat, thanks. And I appreciate your, your ability to provide great value and educate and teach people like myself. So thank you very much.

[00:40:12] Pat:
Of course, my pleasure. Thank you, Donald. Appreciate you. We’ll have all the links and resources on the show notes page for everybody.

Thanks again, my friend. Appreciate you.

Alright. I hope you enjoyed that interview. It doesn’t have to be so difficult. We just have to bring it back to, who is it that we’re speaking to? What language should we be speaking to them with? Not language like English, Spanish, French, but what messaging, what positioning should we use, and what value can we provide?

I love the analogy of the mangoes, so keep that in mind. I highly recommend you check out the book, Sell It Like a Mango on Amazon and other places. Of course, check out and the podcast of the same name.

Donald, thank you so much. I appreciate you, my friend. I miss you. I used to see you at events all the time, and it’s been a while, but I hope all is well with you, and congratulations and good luck on the book.

I hope this was a value to you, the listener and viewer, today. Thank you. I appreciate you.

If you want to join some other amazing entrepreneurs in an amazing community check out SPIPro. It’s a safe space for people to come in and share what’s going on, and what’s working, what’s not working. To ask questions, to get challenged, to be held accountable, to join mastermind groups.

If you’ve ever heard me talk about mastermind groups, this is your chance to potentially get into one and find other people like you. Head on over to and you can apply today, and I look forward to seeing if it’s the right fit for you.

Thank you so much for listening all the way through. I appreciate you. Make sure you hit that subscribe button if you haven’t already. We have more followup episodes coming your way. It’s going to be awesome, and I cannot wait to serve you in next week’s interview.

We have another fantastic person coming on the show, and I look forward to having you get your mind blown again, because we have so many amazing guests coming up.

So again, thank you. I appreciate you, and I look forward to serving you the next one.

Until then, cheers, peace out, and as always, Team Flynn for the win.

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