AP 1172: How Do I Expand and Monetize My New Podcast and Brand?

AP 1172: How Do I Expand and Monetize My New Podcast and Brand?

Pat Flynn:
What's up everybody? Pat Flynn here and welcome to episode 1172 of AskPat 2.0. You're about to listen to a coaching call between an entrepreneur like yourself and me. And I'm here to coach and I'm here to help and you're there to listen in and hopefully get some value from this conversation today with Jason Lazarus, host of the British Blacktrepreneur podcast.

He had a podcast prior to this that he stopped. It was a good learning experience, but then he found a new passion, new discovery, a new yearning to help a certain community, and it's live now. And by the time this episode comes out, he will have had several episodes already. As we are discussing, he is just about to come out.

So we're doing a little bit of time traveling here, but he's doing such a good job already. And I'm excited to have you listen in on the approach that we take and how he can monetize this and turn it into a business. How do we combine the passion that we have to help a group of people with monetization and do it in a genuine authentic way?

So I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you're looking to monetize, this is the one for you. So here he is Jason Lazarus from the British Blacktrepreneur podcast. Here we go.

Jason, welcome to AskPat 2.0, thanks so much for coming in today.

Jason Lazarus:
Hey Pat, thank you. It is an honor and a privilege to be speaking with you.

Pat:
I'm really excited. And in order to help you out, I need to know a little bit about you. And I think everybody else listening wants to know too. So quick introduction, who are you and what do you do?

Jason:
All right. So father, husband, I'm an elementary school teacher, primary school teacher. I'm based here in the UK. I've been doing that for about five years now. Before that I was a teaching assistant, got married quite young, 23, 24. So I had a family and have been doing that now for eight years now, I've been married. So it's been really cool.

Started a podcast about 18 months ago, two years ago. And during that time, the subject matter that I looked at was - because I was interested in acting at the time and it was called the NAC Actors Podcast. And I was focusing on actors within the inner cities around, not just London, but all over the world really.

And it did okay. It didn't go the way I wanted it to go. And I sort of lost the direction and several months ago I stopped, I discontinued the show. But I was happy, I learned so much from it and I think it was really good to go through that experience. So that's me, my background, and where I've come from.

Pat:
Yeah. So my followup question is, so where do you want to go? Was it the podcast that you thought was maybe going to be the thing and now you don't know what your thing is? Pr tell me a little bit more about what your goals are.

Jason:
I'm actually in the middle of starting a new podcast, because originally I'd done the course with London Real, somebody called Brian Rose, you may have heard of him. And I did his podcast course. And so now I've gone on a journey of discovery knowing that I really like entrepreneurship. I really want to support my own community and I've got a podcast called... So it will be called the British Blacktrepreneur.

I've got a 99designs, I've researched, I'm in the mix now of getting ready. And I've got two interviews lined up, one tomorrow and one on Wednesday. And I'm currently at the moment sort of cold emailing people and I've got a list down. So it's taken a lot of work to really get to this point. And I remember hearing some of your advice about batch recording, making sure that you have maybe six or seven episodes, I'm going to try and go for 10 and then focus on promoting and marketing my show.

So I want to talk to entrepreneurs in the UK that are black, from Africa, Caribbean descent. And I think with what's happened with Black Lives Matter, George Floyd, and some of the things that have happened in our world recently, I think it's a good time for black entrepreneurs to really do something good and get their stories really. And I know quite a few already.

And so it happens to be that many of the actors I interviewed were also business owners as well. So they're people that I'm going to have on my new show and they've already agreed to come on. So I've got something called a pre-interview form where I'm just preparing them to come on and everything.

So that's been really exciting. And my main goal, I suppose, is that I want to turn my podcast into a business similar to what you do, what other people have done. I remember listening to Sophie Walker's interview you did with her on, I think it was SPI. She came on, you invited her.

And I was like, "Oh, that'd be great. If I could have something similar to that in terms of what she did or how she did it." I know it's a different niche obviously, but that kind of roadmap. And really the aim was to ask you in terms of what my next steps could be in terms of, let's say monetization, it's something that I want to do for a living.

So, I'm really invested in it and that's where I'm at at the moment.

Pat:
Cool. Well, thank you for that rundown. I love the idea of the show. I think it's very much needed and those voices need to be heard for sure. And so I can tell you're excited about it. I can tell that you're jazzed up and you're already putting into motion a lot of the things. And I think very smartly you're thinking ahead in terms of, "Okay, well how does this have longevity? How does this actually turn into a business?"

The first thing to know is that a podcast is not a business. A podcast is a medium to potentially build businesses from. And all businesses come from understanding the challenges and the struggles that a certain demographic or target audience or market will have. And then you coming in and then providing them a solution.

Now, when it comes to podcasting, there are in fact many different ways to monetize, and the most common way that people think is advertising and sponsorship. That is something that could potentially happen down the road. There are likely many companies out there that would want to get in front of your audience, especially with the topic manner, want to show their support. And that could be something that could open up, but it's not going to open up right away. I think it's really important to understand that there's going to be a little bit of a lag time before we get to that point, if ever.

But that doesn't mean that you can't make money in any other way. I think a lot of people go, "Okay, well I need tens of thousands of downloads per episode in order to make money." That's just not true. What needs to happen is you need to really nail who it is that you're speaking to and find out exactly what they need help with. From that point, you can then start to understand, well, what services, programs, information might they need to help them reach their goals.

And the podcast becomes a way to, number one, build trust. Number two, it builds authority through association with these people who you bring on. It allows you to practice showing how you can be an expert and how connected you are to a space and people want to get access to that. And number three, it becomes a mechanism to deliver messages about the thing that you're offering, whatever that ends up becoming later.

So we still got a long road ahead. It's not going to be, the podcast is out and then the next day you'll start making loads of money. But you're on your way and you're doing the right thing. What needs to happen is even before you understand who it is that you're attracting and what they might need help with - and you might not know that right away and that's okay. You're finding your voice, you're finding your audience, and they're going to find you. And then you'll be able to understand more about them from there.

I would hope that you have a mechanism to collect an email address at some point so you can have more direct conversations. I hope that you can connect with them on social media, for example, on Instagram or you can have direct message conversations. Just, again, to help you analyze more about who they are and what they're struggling with.

But the most important thing that I want to know from you, Jason, is what does business success mean to you? Because if you want to build a seven figure multimillion-dollar business through the podcast, can be done, but that's a completely different set of solutions, problems, and avenues versus a person who might be trying to make well £50,000 a year. It's going to be completely different.

So I'd love to know, when it comes to success, let's define this. Do you have numbers in mind? What does that look like to you? How much, if you don't mind sharing, you don't have to, but we could have this conversation. How much does the business need to make for you to go, "This is exactly doing what I wanted to do" ?

Jason:
I think for me, I always set in the region of between £10,000 and £20,000 a month.

Pat:
A month.

Jason:
So we're looking at £120,000 sterling. That is the ultimate aim and goal. And I suppose one of the long-term aims for the podcast, for me, would be to create a niche marketplace. And I think what you said is really important because finding out the problems, pains and probably solutions - because they all might be quite different.

My tagline or my three words is promote, educate, inspire. So promoting black businesses in the UK, inspiring entrepreneurs to begin their journey and to carry on if things are tough, and also to educate, that would be maybe bringing on people. So I know one or two millionaires who can maybe educate or who have lots of business experience to those that are maybe starting or struggling in business.

So those are the kinds of three things that I want to do. So in my mind, I can see that's something that I want to do and I've seen it happen in the States. You guys have got, WeBuyBlack by a guy called Shareef, can't remember his surname. He makes about a quarter of a million dollars annually turnover.

And there's also one in the UK. I've got to look at their figures again, but they're doing something similar to what I want to do as an end goal. I suppose my kind of USP as it were, would be, yes, I'm not starting as an entrepreneur as such, wanting to be one, want to talk to them, those people.

But then also I'm thinking about really having a platform where black businesses can support one another. I want the podcast to be a case of a safe place to talk about what's going on, the struggles or challenges. They could be race-related, they could be money-related, whatever it might be.

And I think that's sort of where I want to go. And I think it's been good because I know podcasting is much more the long game. You've really got to be invested in it and want to do it for the longterm because I love talking. I love having conversations.

And so it was the first medium that I wanted to use to really have those conversations and get to that point, the avenue I wanted to use to get into business.

So that's where I'm thinking in terms of money-wise, numbers, and also where I want to go longterm.

Pat:
Thank you for that. I think you chose the perfect medium for those types of conversations for sure. It's all about storytelling. It's all about the emotion and the experiences that can come out through the conversations you have. And even if there are no guests on the show, you can share your own perspective as well and that is absolutely valuable too.

But I want to bring some math into this, because if you're trying to make, for example, £120,000 a year, that's $1000 a month for 12 people paying you monthly. Like $1000 a month from 12 people. If you could potentially coach 12 people, that's times 1000. I'm just trying to bring some perspective in terms of well, just what does this actually mean? Now, maybe it's 24 clients a month paying you $500 and it's a new 24 people every single month, but this is an online course that you have.

Again, I don't want to have conversations about whether you should create an online course or whether you should do coaching or whether you should do whatever, because that's not where to start. Where you want to start is, let's build an audience based on my interests and see what happens from there.

And that's going to be your first step. That's where I would focus. And this effort of bringing real conversations . . . if it doesn't come out in a podcast episode, you're not doing it right. You've got to lean into exactly what you said, what you want this to be about, make it about that. I think a lot of people say this, and I'm not saying this is you, but this is many podcasters I teach. They say they want their show to be about this and then it just becomes a generic copycat of another interview show, right?

Jason:
Yeah.

Pat:
Let's have the hard conversations that you want to have so that we can bring to light these things and people can feel safe about it, thus attracting more people to you, thus people attracting others for you to the same space, to the same podcast, get on your email list then you can have conversations and determine who you might be able to help.

Ultimately, when it comes to monetization, I think that before we get to the bigger programs and the marketplaces and all these super high level things that which are admirable, absolutely fantastic goals to have, that's like shooting for the stars, right? And that's where we want to end up. That should always be your North star, but let's bring it back down to today. Even without the podcast, you could probably ask around these people who you're reaching out to cold emails with or even people you who you already have in your network.

You might already be able to provide something based on your own skills, your own knowledge and accountability and support to start even generating income sooner than later, where you don't even need to have a certain number of listeners to have. But to narrow it down to make it easy, start with one person and help them with getting one result.

And when you start there, I promise you, it's going to change everything for you in terms of what it is that you feel is possible for you. Because monetization is also a very psychological barrier that we have to get over in terms of our worth and whether or not we can actually charge or asking for the sale and whatnot. And the training that you can get by trying to find one person who needs help can give you so much value.

Whether you choose to focus on more individual one-on-one type help later, which you might find that maybe initially it's not something that is attractive to you, but then you do it and you're absolutely falling in love with it, or the opposite. You might try it once and you're like, "Okay, now I know I don't want to do that. So let's look for other options now."

That's where it starts. One person, one result. After you start to build an audience, I would imagine, sooner than later, if you put it out there and they feel that it's a safe space and they're connecting with you, and if you're consistent and you're showing up, they trust you, they know, like, and trust you now, I can imagine that it can be very easy for you to connect with somebody and see how you can work out a deal like that. And then go from there.

The beauty is the podcast will open up doors. It opens up possibilities. We can't see what the doors are yet, but the truth is, we got to be consistent and put it out there. And I think you're already doing the right things to go ahead and do that. What do you think about all of that?

Jason:
Yeah, I think that's really good. I knew from I'm listening to your show and listened to AskPat that we have podcast in . . . I knew it wasn't going to be straight away. Things are going to be rolling in and it's going to be like that. You've got to build the audience and it's going to take a while to really get things going.

And I think I want to build something sustainable that's going to be long term because that ultimately is really what I want, knowing that I started off quite small and it's working and I think through conversations I'll be able to work out maybe like you said, "What do people want from you?" Maybe they want me to teach them how to podcast, for example. Because a few people, and it's funny actually, because two or three people would ask me, "Oh, I want to talk to you about podcasting." Because I had one before, I've got experience with doing it. So I'm thinking, "Ah. Okay."

The light bulb is going off a little bit, maybe that's something that I could talk to them about because I've got the equipment and I've looked at your course, your YouTube, I've done a course on it. So I've got that level of IP, I feel, to even possibly do that. And just coming out of this conversation is making me think that's something that is potentially something I could offer in terms of getting your message out there.

Pat:
Completely.

Jason:
And I think as I'm talking to people, different business owners in the UK, then naturally things... I know what you mean, things might drop, "Maybe I could do this. Maybe I could try that." And obviously as the audience grows, it's about asking them, "Hey, so what can I help you with." Or something at the end of the podcast. In terms of finding out what the audience wants, would you advise things at the end of your show even asking them, or reach out to me in my email or Instagram, is that something that you promote as well?

Pat:
Yeah. I think a more blanket statement doesn't work as well. "Hey, if you have any thoughts and suggestions for how I might be able to help you let me know." We need to get specific. And in one episode you can say, "Hey, if you enjoy this episode, reach out to me on Instagram. Here it is. I'd love to say hi." You don't even have to say what it's about. For some, it just might be a hi, for others they could be absolute golden students who become a part of your course down the road. You don't know.

But I think that the thing is you can do that from day one, because one person can teach you so much about what it is that you can do further on. That's your advantage, starting out small.

A lot of people throw numbers that are small and they go, "I'm behind. Other people are doing better." It doesn't matter what other people are doing. Do you know who those people are and what they need help with? Have you made connections with them? Have you talked to them?

You could probably provide a lot more touch points and a lot more value than somebody like me could, because honestly I don't have the time anymore, because I'm getting a million people asking me for stuff every single week. So that's your advantage, being small, is you have the ability to reach, directly, a much larger portion of your audience. Yes, it's a smaller pie, but you get more slices, if you will.

So that's where I would start for sure. Start opening up the conversation. And the trouble with a podcast is it's sometimes very closed conversation, you're just hearing one or two people talk and that's it.

But try to see how you might be able to invite the conversation from the other end. And if you can direct where to go to have those conversations - for me, it's usually Twitter just because it's easier, but Instagram is great too. Then you can have video messages or voice messages go back and forth.

Lean into that. If you've read my book, Superfans, all the stuff that I talk about at the end of that book, it's all about making those people feel special, making them feel like they belong because when they feel like they belong and they feel like there's a safe space for them, they're going to invite their other friends who aren't able to find a safe space too.

And I think that's going to be a huge advantage for you, especially with the topic manner and how if you hit the right heartstrings, if you tell the right stories, if you talk even about things that maybe are indeed a little bit controversial but in a nice way, it's going to invite a whole load of other people in to which then you can connect with and learn from and build solutions for them from there.

Jason:
That's incredible. Thank you Pat. Just one more thing I wanted to ask you actually. Obviously yes, definitely starting off with building the audience and the trust factor, I was going to ask you about affiliate marketing, because I felt like that would be something in my mind that would lean quite nicely with promoting - the ethos of my brand or part of it is going to be about promoting other products.

And you talked about showing the video and maybe that you could be demoing the product, but almost like, "I've actually bought this and actually like it and I'm not being fake about it," and inviting those guests of those products that you either have bought or that you like onto your show.

Is that maybe a first base type of way of getting the first type of business in at some point? Do I need to be like, "Okay, let me build my audience. Let me find out what they want." Instead of thinking, "I'm just going to go towards affiliate marketing," do I need to pivot to what they want rather than go into that?

Pat:
Ideally you'd want both, right? You would want to recommend a product that you know would help them. Everybody wins. And if you have your own experience with it, even better. But in the beginning you might not know. And that's okay because it is a product that you are authentically talking about that you've authentically used and you believe that is authentically something that could potentially help people. It would be a disservice to not share that. It would absolutely be a disservice.

Imagine saying, "Yeah, I have a tool that might help you. If you have this problem, I had that problem. Here's something that'll help you, but I'm not going to tell you because my audience isn't big enough yet." That doesn't make sense. So you share it with them. Even in the first few episodes, I think inviting a guest on who is the founder or owner of that product, especially if it's another black entrepreneur that would fit in perfectly, everybody's supporting each other, that fits within the ethos of everything that you're trying to do. That would be absolutely incredible, I think.

And the beauty is, if people don't want it, they don't want it. They can still learn along the way. It's not a sales pitch webinar. It is a conversation. I had Nathan Barry on my show, the founder of ConvertKit. And we didn't even talk about ConvertKit until the very end, as far as like, "Hey, if you need help with email, get into this."

We just talked about his whole bootstrapping story. And that was in and of itself inspirational. It just so happened that it connected to a product that I promoted as an affiliate at the end. It wasn't for the purpose of that though.

And I think when people can get value, they're going to look for ways to pay you back. And affiliate marketing is an easy way to do that. So look for ways to do that.

For example, if you had a friend who had a podcasting course that fit into the ethos of what you're doing, maybe instead of you trying to create that course, maybe talk about podcasting with that person and then you can promote it as an affiliate and then you've already solved that problem. You can move on to something else, if that is not something you'd want to do yourself. So definitely a lot of options there.

Jason:
Oh, that's incredible. Thank you. That has really covered most of it. I think there's always that eagerness to get going. You've got a course about branding. So I'm currently doing my website with WordPress. I'm just sort of sorting out at the moment, looking to launch in about four weeks time. So I'm excited about launching all that.

Pat:
Good luck.

Jason:
Yeah. It's exciting. And it's really good. So I've really been enjoying your show and I look forward to more episodes of all the guys and gals that you have on this really good and incredible what you're doing.

Pat:
Thank you, Jason. Where can people go to find your future website or your upcoming podcasts? Where should they go?

Jason:
Yeah. Excellent. So on Instagram, it will be the British Blacktrepreneur and my website is going to be www.TheBritishBlacktrepreneur.com. That's where you'll find my social media and my website.

Pat:
Cool. Jason, thank you so much for this. Thanks for being open. Thanks for being vulnerable. Thanks for doing what you're doing. And we look forward to... Maybe we can catch up later and see how things go after you launch and everything. Is that cool?

Jason:
Yeah, definitely. I'd love to come back on and let you know how it's all going.

Pat:
Yeah. All right. We'll hold you accountable then, you got to do the work though, obviously. So thank you Jason. We appreciate you.

Jason:
Thank you Pat. Take care.

Pat:
All right. I hope you enjoyed that coaching call with Jason from the British Blacktrepreneur podcast. I recommend you check them out at Spotify or Apple or wherever you listen to podcasts, you can find him, and what an amazing voice, I just must say. I wish I had that voice. Perfect podcasting voice, I must say. Anyway, thank you, Jason, for being here and for being vulnerable and asking questions and I hope this was helpful for you, the listener.

And if you'd like to get helped directly, just like Jason did for me today, all you have to do is apply at AskPat.com. We might reach out to you near future, further future, and see how we might be able to get you here on the show, and I can help you out. And all I ask is that you let us share this with the world, and that way we can help more people too. And that's what this is about.

Thank you so much, all of you, for sticking around and I appreciate you. I look forward to serving you in next week's episode. So make sure you hit subscribe if you haven't already and best of luck to you. Cheers, and as always, Team Flynn for the win.

Thanks for listening to AskPat at AskPat.com. I'm your host, Pat Flynn. Sound design and editing by Paul Grigoras. Our senior producer is Sara Jane Hess, our series producer is David Grabowski, and our executive producer is Matt Gartland. AskPat is a production of SPI Media. We'll catch you for the next session.