AP 1247: How Do I Grow My Brand When Nothing Moves the Needle?

AP 1247: How Do I Grow My Brand When Nothing Moves the Needle?

Pat Flynn: Pat Flynn up everybody? Pat Flynn here, and welcome to episode 1247 of AskPat 2.0. You're about to listen to a coaching call between myself and an entrepreneur just like you. And today we're speaking with Dr. Damaris Maria, who has a podcast and a website about mindful integrative health, and she helps a lot of people.

She herself was a veteran who had suffered a few injuries and was able to get through that and wants to take that experience and help others, and she's been doing that with her podcast and her website. You can find her at mindfullyintegrative.com, and she's helping so many people in such important ways.

However, she's struggling with a lot of the same kinds of things every other entrepreneur struggles with."Which direction do I go? I'm kind of just going through the motions and I'm recording my podcast. I'm writing blog posts and I'm, I've got an email list, but nothing is really moving the way we want it to yet."

So what do we do? If that resonates with you, this is definitely an episode for you, and you're gonna see the conclusions that we come up with or the direction that we come up with and the conclusion to this episode as far as what the next steps are, and ultimately, what should we stop doing as well?

What is that? Well, you have to listen through. So here she is. This is Dr. Damaris Maria. You can find her again at Mindfully Integrative and a podcast of the same name. So here she.

Damaris, thank you so much for joining me on AskPat today. Thank you for taking the time.

Dr. Damaris Grossmann: I really appreciate you having me on.

I'm quite excited. I, I felt kind of blessed. I was having a, a weakness like, Oh, I hope things kind of work out, and I got your email and I was like, Oh, this is, this is awesome. This, I must be on the right space.

Pat Flynn: Oh, that's good. And today's Monday. So you got the whole rest of the week to keep going with this, which is great.

So hopefully I can help you today. I'm excited to dive in, but why don't we first start with you. Tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do.

Dr. Damaris Grossmann: So I'm a integrative family nurse practitioner. I'm a veteran. So overall my business is mindfully integrative and it helps individuals and families with education to find mindful ways in integrative and functional health.

So I can do primary stuff, but really a lot of it is because I use an integrative approach because of my health issues. I was a disabled veteran that really had to learn. I was really sick. So between health history of like, during war time I had a mild traumatic brain injury and a back injury, and I just had, was really kind of had to figure out how to build up my health.

And through the years of getting through that disability, I ended up, you know, disability at a doctorate and I was like, Oh my God, if I can figure out my life and, and my health goals, I can help someone else. So for me it's just like, I'll give anything for free and I'll help anyone now because I know if I can do it I know somebody else could really use the help.

Pat Flynn: Incredible. First of all, thank you for what you're doing to help others and other families, and also thank you for your service as well. How are you helping people in the online space? Do, do you have like a website? Like tell me a little bit about your business and stuff.

Dr. Damaris Grossmann: Okay, so I have a website called Mindly Integrative, and on that platform. I put my business page of like my podcast, which I started about during the pandemic about a year and a half ago. And I do like a weekly podcast talking, either interviewing and highlighting inspirational people in integrative health or my topics that are in integrator or function health space.

So something that somebody might know about, but really putting a, a real research. And information on, and then I'll put it in a weekly topic. And then I've been very blessed to have a really good whirlwind of people to interview. I've interviewed over a hundred people so far, and they've been really cool.

They just like, I just feel so blessed. But I don't monetize really. I don't really know how to, I'm not a great marketer. I will give plenty of things for free. I mean, I do put stuff on my website. I've been trying , and then I just pretty much use that and add it to a Zoom for YouTube. I'm not great, but I, I just keep trying and I keep putting it out there to just be consistent and to be as authentic with myself.

So I guess my coaching to ask you, it's just, I've been watching and following you and then I've been following other people and I guess maybe I, I'm feel like I might be missing something or maybe my messaging or I'm not sure.

Pat Flynn: Sure. Okay. So, and you also have your practice, your in person practice as well?

Dr. Damaris Grossmann: Right. So I have a telehealth practice and a local for those local to meet can come. So I tried to put on the actual website, tele practice clinic so I can see people online. I have the health education and then the podcast was really kind of just to get my voice out there so people kind of knew who I was and it was after the pandemic and coping and all of those things.

It kind of was like one of those things I felt like I needed to speak more about an integrative approach, especially with things changing. So I don't know. That's, that's kind of where it's been going so far.

Pat Flynn: And I'm curious, before I dive in even deeper, what are your goals? What ultimately would you like to see happen?

Dr. Damaris Grossmann: I think that, so the podcast as a whole, I'm trying to cultivate a collaborative book together with the auth, with all the speakers. My goal early is just to be a voice. I'm seeing integrative health, but really a whole health space into like letting people know that there's more in their wellness journey than just like a one pill or one option.

So, and being that I've spent so many years in training and then had to deal with so much on my own health or journey, I really want others to know, like there are other outlets. And so the, that's why I've been like highlighting people and talking to people that there's other ways. And so just like my passion became like, literal project, but I'm not the, I'm not a great money maker per se.

Like I can, I'm, I'm feel grateful from where I'm at, but I, I don't know how to grow.

Pat Flynn: Is that a goal for you with, with a lot of these projects is to, to make money with them?

Dr. Damaris Grossmann: No, none at all. So I'm, I'm not saying that I can't make money. Yeah. But I, I. Most people tell me I give too much for free or I, I don't know how to really price myself.

Pat Flynn: Because I think it's important to have some sort of goal to shoot for, right?

That way we can sort of reverse engineer to see how well it's going or not, and we can kind of get there. Cuz the truth is if money's not the goal, then you could be doing exactly what you need to be doing right now, you're actually not falling short. Although I know it can be difficult in this space often because you see people talk about their numbers and you see people like blowing up and you're like, Oh, why not me?

But do you need to be where they're at? And so this is why I'm trying to gauge like where would you feel like you're doing your best work and feeling great and that this is worth it? For some people, it is the money and it's like, Hey, if I'm not making money from this thing, then it's, you know, then I have to stop because I have to make money somewhere.

Seems like you have that all figured out. As far as the monetary stuff, if you make more money, that's just a bonus, right? Not necessarily what you're shooting for.

Dr. Damaris Grossmann: Yeah. I mean, if I can get a steady flow, sure. I don't necessarily know how to monetize podcast wise. I don't have an amazing download space or understanding marketing for my, on my end, I think maybe I have around 2000 to 3000 downloads, overall, it's not much. So maybe it's a marketing thing or a messaging, I'm not sure on, but I, if I could at least still helping individuals long term and, you know, my messaging and if I leave with, you know, helping someone on that end, then that's important to me. I think it'll all work out in the long run, I hope.

But, you know, business wise I'm like, ugh, I try my best.

Pat Flynn: Yeah, I mean, you, you, you're doing awesome. I mean, two to 3000 people, I mean, those are real human beings that you're reaching that you wouldn't have been able to reach just outta your office, right?

So you're starting off right. You're doing things for the right reason, you're helping people. And you also, when I asked you what your goal was, your first thing that you mentioned was a collaborative book. Yeah. And it, and that's, that's really cool because you are putting the pieces together for that already.

Like that's working.

Dr. Damaris Grossmann: Well, kind of. Yeah. I mean, so I have about, like, I was telling around a hundred people that I interviewed already. Mm-hmm. . So some I have. The, the podcast are out and some aren't. You know, for the most part, I wrote them. I still don't know. Fully collaborative, but most, so far I've, you know, about 10 authors that put in their stories.

And basically I'm trying to, this was a, a thought in one of my mindful moments and I was trying to say, Well, maybe I could get their stories together. And then I thought about you and your books and I had read about you and I had different people I'd followed and I said, What, what inspires me and then I'm like, well, other people inspire me.

So I was like, Well, maybe that'll work. But I, I don't even know how to go about fully that other than just collecting them, You know, I'm trying to self-publish one book right now on my own and then like a little small thing, but I don't know how to do this collaborative one, but I felt like, oh, that might be a little wishful thinking.

Pat Flynn: Well, I think it's great because, I mean, a lot of people have done this. Tim Ferris took a lot of his podcast episodes that he did put them into a book. I know Howard Stern did the same thing. And, and you don't need to be a huge celebrity to be able to be able to do that, cuz your own little space in this world inside of the integrative health, things that you're doing that you can become known for.

And in many cases, these books, once they're created, then enable you to get your voice out to more people. They're gonna bring more people into your podcast because these are, these books are read, they spread around people, share them with each other, that sort of thing. And then you can do some amazing things with there.

I remember when I was writing my first book, which was a study guide for architecture back in 2008. This is a long time ago. I was so worried about, well, I don't know how I'm gonna market this thing. I don't even know the systems. Like it's, I don't even know, like, so should I even write this book? Yes, because when you write the book and you have it, then you're gonna know that you're gonna need to figure that out and you can kind of figure that out then.

I was getting so caught up for steps seven, eight, and nine, that I stopped step one, two, and three. And so, I would just consider yourself as working on this book project, making it as great as it can be, and also on your podcast I would talk about the fact that this book is coming out. That's the one thing marketing wise that I think more people need to do is talk about the projects they're working on early, even before it's finished.

Cuz that does two things. Number one, it's going to almost hold yourself accountable to completing that cuz you kind of mention it and, and share it. But secondly, You are teasing this thing that people can look forward to time and time again in different ways, and as soon as it comes out, you've marketed it already, like part of that already exists.

That's the way that I like to do marketing. And so let's just talk about what we're doing so that by the time it's out, people already know. And if they're interested in it, if they've, you know, invested time into the, the project as it's coming out and the creation of it, then they're gonna be likely to, to grab it.

And then the second part of marketing that I really love is make the thing great, make the thing shareworthy, make it awesome so that people on their own, once they get it, they wanna share it and, and spread it out. And you'll find that incredible things happen that you can't even imagine when you create really good material and the fact that you're already getting told like, Oh, I can't believe you're sharing all this stuff for free.

It just leads me to believe that if you keep going with this, you'll eventually get to that point where that one influencer finds it, who's like blows you up, right? Or that one company reaches out and, and wants to partner with you. Those opportunities will absolutely will happen. They don't happen right away.

They just happen when you put good into this world, and I think that you are on the right track. So to go back to like what you were saying earlier about like, you know, I'm not a great marketer. I don't even know exactly what to do. You don't have to know like, it's okay. What if you just gave yourself the grace to just create your best work?

When opportunities arise, that's when you can decide whether or not you want to take them or not, because you have the benefit of not being forced to make money, right?

Dr. Damaris Grossmann: It's good and bad. Well, I'm trying to transition to like, Yeah, so I mean, I'm getting somebody from the telehealth part and then it's like trying to, the podcast part is just like an extra passion part of the project.

Pat Flynn: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The podcast is cool though because it allows you to connect with those people. Some of those people might be the people that give you those opportunities cuz now they know you exist, they know the work that you're doing, et cetera. And it also, you become an authority through association because you are the one stepping up to bring all these people together.

And now also in a book, I think more podcasters should follow your lead actually and turn their interviews into a book. You become the authority you're gonna be able to get more likely to be on stages to talk about this as a result of having a book and your sort of work in this space already. That being said, there are going to be opportunities I think that you can have in front of you more sooner to generate an income you can have, even though you might not have a huge audience, you have a targeted audience and there are gonna be companies and people who wanna be able to get in front of that audience.

And you can start to do some integrative podcast ads, for example, or some affiliate marketing perhaps to some different products that might be available in this space.

Dr. Damaris Grossmann: I think I was watching one of your videos and you were just talking about that and I definitely am one of those people where I wouldn't want to ever back anything that I don't use or believe in.

For sure. I'm like, I'm not a salesy, so it's like, if it's not something that I find useful or I'm not gonna like just be like, Oh yeah, hey, that's cool. Get that.

Pat Flynn: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's great cuz you're not doing it for the money. You're do. You would, you would only share something.

Dr. Damaris Grossmann: If I get some money from it, great. But I want it to be like real.

Pat Flynn: Exactly. Your earnings are a byproduct of you stepping up to be helpful, right? Making money curating all the noise that's out there and finding the best stuff. The stuff that you know and believe in and sharing it. Yeah. And you can get paid for that. Everybody wins in that situation.

So I wouldn't be afraid to share things that you, you do believe in even now, and you can generate an income from, because even if it might be just a little bit of money up front, as your podcast continues to grow, as you start to get spread out there, this stuff grows exponentially over time. So there are gonna be people who listen to those episodes in the future who then get involved with those products that you mentioned in that that money does add up over time.

For sure. I also imagine that for a person like you, with your credentials and the position that you're in, you could likely get paid to speak about some of this stuff. Is that something that would be of interest to you in the future?

Dr. Damaris Grossmann: I have like once but I never made it like a big thing. Like I have definitely spoken.

Some things I'll just do for free just because I'll go, you know, a lot of veteran groups I'll do, I have done a couple conferences here and there. I haven't looked for them, all the time. Sometimes I'll get asked here and there.

Pat Flynn: Cause you, you have a story to tell, right?

Dr. Damaris Grossmann: Well, yeah, I mean, I, I mean I very, I was very lucky I got nominated from like, then did a commercial with Verizon. That was really cool. I was really excited. It was like, well they nominated me to be like, as a veteran, a true calling to talk about what it was, why being a veteran to transition into being an integrative provider and trying to help people.

So I thought that was kind of nice. And you know, I feel very blessed where I'm at now. To grow and, and just get the message and the, and like to the right people and stuff.

Pat Flynn: One other thing that I wanna, it does, and, and one other thing I wanna share with you that helped me in the, in the beginning when I wasn't also making a ton of money, but I knew I was having some sort of impact, was to really sometimes step back and just look at who's listening to your show and the kind of people that you're able to connect.

And even if like just one single person in their story, if you can see that you've made an impact in their lives, it's like, wow, this is totally worth it, right? Sometimes, I don't know if you're here already, but sometimes in my history, I remember getting so worried about getting the next podcast episode out or being worried that I wasn't marketing the way I should, and like all these little components of business were getting in the way of me remembering that I am actually making an impact and, and you're doing so in an even bigger way, like directly to people's hearts and souls and lives and health and family and stuff. I mean, that's so commendable. I hope that you'll continue to reflect on just the importance that you have and the impact that you're making because that's the stuff that gets you through the hard parts.

That's the stuff that continues to get you to get back and go into the podcast later when it might be hard or you're not seeing like results.

Dr. Damaris Grossmann: I mean, they're not perfect. I mean, I just, I'm not one of those that's like, I'm not a great editor. Like I'll go and put the Zoom on and, you know, I'll record it and, and I mean, they're not amazing, but I keep putting it out there. I keep trying.

Pat Flynn: Have you done any, I think especially if you have a great story to tell, have considered being a guest on other podcasts?

Dr. Damaris Grossmann: I totally haven't yet. I, I guess it's just time and space with like little ones right now. I haven't put enough effort into that, but I probably could. I just haven't really even looked into that yet.

Pat Flynn: I think that would be a really big lever to pull. That wouldn't take a ton of time because you don't have to, you know, write anything. You just have to show up and tell your story. And the fact that you have a podcast makes it easy for people to, while listening to you on another podcast, come over and listen to like, and subscribe to yours.

It's a great way to get your voice out there and your story out there on platforms that already have a targeted audience, and you're getting endorsed by the host. It's a very low lift way to get a lot of results. So when it comes to marketing, it's like, yes, there's all these things. What if all you focused on for a little bit of time was, let's see, how many podcast episodes I could tell my story on and provide value to their audience.

Like if that was it, it's like, Wow, everything feels so freeing cuz that's all I could focus on. And your building relationships at the same time. So you could find out what other podcasts exist. You can do a little bit of research on Apple Podcasts to see who's in the health space, who might be interested or who's had guests previously on about the integrative kind of work that you're doing.

And then you can take that even further and deliver even more value to them. And you're already an experienced podcaster, so it's not like you have to figure out how to do that. You, you already know how to do that.

Dr. Damaris Grossmann: I don't have an experience, but I'm trying , I mean, I, I don't get like big guests on, I haven't tried to do any of that stuff.

I wasn't, I wasn't trying to be pushy to people, so I was trying to just highlight just regular people doing stuff. And then if an, a big guest comes out, like a big name came on, cool. But I haven't even gotten that to that far yet, you know?

Pat Flynn: Do you know what episodes that I have done that get the most downloads? They're not the ones with celebrities.

It's the ones with regular people who the audience can relate to. Cuz it makes you go like, wow, I don't need to try to get Oprah on my show.

Dr. Damaris Grossmann: Good to hear that. Cuz like, I have a lot of people that like, you know, that were really sick, you know, and, and they had to find like other ways to be healthy and it was like, I don't know.

And listening to them like turn and change.

Pat Flynn: Oh yeah. Jeez. That's more relatable than, you know, a 40 year tenure professor speaking on a podium about this stuff, who might be like the master's degree and you know, have all those PhDs and stuff like, okay, cool. But like the person who just lived through this that is like me is gonna make more of an impact.

Right. So my advice to you on your podcast would be to, and I, and I haven't listened to your show yet, but you know, really get into those stories, pull those stories out of those guests, and get them to talk about the transformation that they went through, because that's what the listeners are going to want for themselves too.

And when the listeners see that a person has gone through a transformation, they're gonna want to go to somebody who can help them with that. And that would be you and the way that you help people. So again, I love everything that you're doing. I think A, just keep, keep going. B. Think for the marketing stuff, like guest podcasting would be an amazing way to do it, just to get your story out there in front of more people, and you're gonna see it just might be one guest podcasting spot that like blows things up because it just hit the right people. And C as a podcaster continue to just collect those stories and, and dive deeper and practice the storytelling and the story asking part of it.

And then I like this book idea, and I know it might sound like a lot and you have toddlers and like you have, you know, a little bit of time so you can prioritize and you don't have to do it all at once either, right?

You can take it step by step. But hopefully you are again to the final point here, which is just enjoying the work and seeing the value that you're offering the world cuz it is there.

Dr. Damaris Grossmann: I think that's really helpful cuz I, I think I was putting myself in so many different parts, or trying to think of, you know, focusing on too many things.

I was sure, Is it the podcast, is it this, is it the membership? Like I was trying to add all these things. I'm like, all right, maybe one of these is gonna. Be worth, you know, the time.

Pat Flynn: Yeah. If you put all your energy into less things, those things will have more of an opportunity to grow into what you want them to.

And that's, that's a very big common thing that we talk about here in AskPat with guests is they're trying to be everywhere and do everything, but as a result, they're burning out or they're not seeing results on those places. Less is more for sure, especially when it comes to like our mental health related to this stuff, which is, it can be very overwhelming sometimes.

So I hope this was helpful.

Dr. Damaris Grossmann: Oh, it was so helpful. Thank you so much for having me on. I'm, I'm very grateful for your time.

Pat Flynn: Absolutely. Where can people go who are listening to this right now, who wanna follow you? Where should they go?

Dr. Damaris Grossmann: So, I have a Instagram Mindfully Integrative. My website is MindfullyIntegrative.com and I'm @DamarisGrossman.

Pat Flynn: Thank you, Damaris. I appreciate you.

Dr. Damaris Grossmann: Thank you so much. I appreciate you.

Pat Flynn: All right. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Dr. Damaris. Doctor, thank you so much for what it is that you do and for coming on here on the show and sharing what's going on and what the struggles are and what the challenges are so that together we can help more people.

And that's what really this is all about, continuing those ripple effects. And I just love that analogy because we're all here to help the rest of the world in our own special way. And, Doctor, for you to take those challenging experiences from your past and to be able to truly empathize with your patients and those who you help is just such a beautiful thing.

And I'm grateful for what it is that you do, and I hope this was helpful and I look forward to connecting with you in the future so that we can see where things go from here.

So again, if you're interested in connecting with Dr. Damaris, you can find her at Mindfully Integrative and also the podcast under the same name, and I highly recommend you subscribe.

By the way, if you'd like to get coaching just like Dr. Damaris did today, head on over to AskPat.com. There's a form over there where you can fill out information so that I can check it out and see if it's the right fit. And if it is, I'll reach out to you soon maybe, or maybe in the future. Sometimes much later.

And either way, it's not possible unless you go there. So AskPat.com and again, make sure you subscribe to the show because we got a lot of great stuff coming your way and you will not wanna miss it. And it just takes one or two golden nuggets from each episode to really make an impact in your business and in your lives.

I know that this has happened for several listeners, and if it hasn't happened yet, it'll happen very soon because we have a wide range of different kinds of entrepreneurs coming from different backgrounds and all different kinds of challenges. But again, we're all here for the same goal and to provide value to the, to the world.

So if, if that sounds exciting to you, hit that subscribe button and I'll see you the next episode. Until then, thank you. Cheers. Peace out. And, as always, Team Flynn for the win.

Thanks for listening to AskPat at AskPat.com. I'm your host Pat Flynn. Our senior producer is Sarah Jane Hess. Our series producer is David Grabowski. And our executive producer is Matt Gartland. Sound editing by Duncan Brown. AskPat is a production of SPI Media. We'll catch you in the next session.