AP 1142: How Do I Position and Brand Myself in the Space That I’m In?

AP 1142AP 1142: How Do I Position and Brand Myself in the Space That I'm In?

Pat Flynn:
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Pat:
What's up everybody Pat Flynn here, and welcome to episode 1,142 of Ask Pat 2.0. You're about to listen in on, like a fly on a wall, a coaching call between myself and an entrepreneur, just like you. And today we're talking with Lela Burris from LelaBurris.com. That's L-E-L-A B-U-R-R-I-S, and she is a professional organizer who is growing her blog. And her blog is actually doing really well, but it's creating an interesting dichotomy between who she is on her blog and who she is as a professional organizer, because they're not exactly what you would think.

Pat:
So anyway, we're going to dive into this and help Lela out and also give her some suggestions on what she could do with this growing blog to turn it into even more of a profitable business and how to monetize it better, too. So listen in, this will be a good one with Lela Burris from LelaBurris.com.

Pat:
Lela, welcome to AskPat 2.0. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Lela Burris:
Thanks. I'm happy to be here.

Pat:
I'm excited that you're here too. Why don't you take a quick moment to tell us a little bit about who you are and what it is that you do?

Lela:
Okay. So my name is Lela Burris and I'm a blogger and a professional organizer. I'm also a brand ambassador and educator for an international crafting company. So I'm kind of juggling all kinds of different niches. And over the last two-ish years, my blog has really blown up and it's kind of starting to move forward way faster than I expected it to. And so, I'm slowly branching off of my in-home organizing business and I'm just doing more virtual stuff on the blog.

Lela:
And while that's great, it also puts me out there more. And I know that I definitely do not look like a regular professional organizer. I don't have that look. I've got tattoos sleeves. I have a very laid back, casual attitude. I don't organize like other organizers. And so, what I'm kind of struggling with is trying to maintain that same vibe that I've become known for, but also kind-of keep that credibility and show that I really am an expert in my field.

Pat:
Great. Really quick, what is the website? Where can we go check it out?

Lela:
The website is my name. It's LelaBurris.com and the entire branding altogether is Organized Ish.

Pat:
Okay. Very cool. And for those of you who are listening, Lela's wearing a Spice Girl shirt. It's got this vibe. She's got these real cool glasses. This is super cool. On the current blog, do you feel that people don't know who it is behind the brand yet? Is this coming from, you just haven't really had this much attention on you and perhaps, just haven't fully put yourself out there and you're kind of worried about how people are going to respond? Or let's dig a little bit deeper. Where is this concern coming from exactly?

Lela:
I think on the blog, I do a really good job with kind of sticking to who I have been because I started this blog in 2015 and I've kind of kept it that way, but I also, with my professional organizing business, I kind of had that different, more professional look to it. And now that I'm phasing out of that, I've got my audience from my professional organizing side and then, I've also got my blog side. And then, as I put it all together on social media, I'm not really sure how to put it all together, I guess, if that makes sense.

Pat:
What are you most worried about?

Lela:
I don't know. I know that, I think what I struggle with a lot is I'll be on social media and people love my tips. And then when they find out I'm an actual organizer, they're like, "Oh, I did not expect that from you."

Lela:
So I think it's just showing that I do know what I'm talking about and I am a professional, but I don't do things the way other organizers do. I know that most of the time they want things to be really pretty, like a magazine. And in real life, that's not how women live. They're busy, they've got jobs. They've got kids, that pantry that you see in a magazine is not real. It's staged for a photo. And I don't want women to get discouraged when they're trying to organize their home and their life by thinking that that's how it's got to be. Because they instantly give up.

Pat:
Right. And that fits the story here from going to more professional to now, the blog, which is more you, more real. It would be different if it was going the other way, right? You'd be going more "staged" if you will. And you're kind of going the opposite way. So you were worried about those who follow you for the professional work that you do coming and finding you and going, "Oh, this is not as pretty or as perfect as I thought it was." We don't know if that's the truth though. Right? We don't know if that's in fact what people are going to be thinking or have you indeed heard feedback already?

Lela:
I've heard a little bit from past clients and sometimes I'll have someone inquire about virtual services and then, they see the blog and they see how laid back and not perfect everything is. And they're like, "Oh, I think I'll just go in a different direction." Which is great because that's my style and I don't want to-

Pat:
Won't serve them anyway-

Lela:
I don't want to work with someone that doesn't want that style.

Pat:
Exactly, which is what I was going to get at. There's going to be some people who, when they find you and they see the real you on the blog, they're just like, "Well, you know what? That's not for me." And that's okay. We can't please everybody. And that's one thing that I've definitely had to learn is just once you start to understand who you are and what you enjoy and your voice, you've got to realize that that's, at the same time, yes, you're going to leave some people out. But at the same time, it's going to bring that many more people in, right? People are going to be more connected with you. And that's really exciting. You're so you're almost like doing this sort of filtering with who you want to work with and the kind of life and the kind of vibe that you want to give.

Pat:
So, don't be afraid to lose a few people to gain the loyalty of many, many more, if that makes sense. And I'm just giving you permission to feel that way, because I think a lot of us feel bad, right? We want to please everybody, especially from a professional career. And it's like, this is cool, this is going to help probably way more people. And you know probably deep in your heart that this is probably the more realistic way to go for people and you can help them more. Right?

Pat:
And I think the other thing about this is like having some sort of response in mind when people go, "Hey, I thought you were this professional perfect situation. What's going on here?" If you craft or somehow can already understand what an answer might be that works best, and this might take some practice, but this is what I do whenever I sell a course or whenever I have something going on, I think about, "Okay, what are the objections people are going to have?" And then I go, "Okay, if those are the objections, what's the best answer I can offer that would best paint this picture for them?"

Pat:
And in this case, it might be something like, "You know what? I'm here to serve you. And if you want the professional sort of approach, I can do that for you. But I need to be true to who I am to help other people in a more realistic fashion, where with most women who cannot achieve this sort of result. And I'm here to help them too. And that's kind of where my heart is. So if you want to work with me, awesome. If not, no worries. Here's some recommendations for other professionals that might help you." Right? And that way you're not leaving them hanging, and it's not like, "Yo, I don't want to talk to you. You're being mean." It's just like, "No, that's not who I am and what I want to do anymore. If you want to go down that route, here's some people that I know can help you."

Lela:
Yeah. I love that. That's a really good way to word it, about how I can still do the professional side, but it's not really who I am.

Pat:
It's almost like, I remember watching Tiger Woods in his prime, golfer, top of the game. He was getting coaching for his swing. And I thought it was so weird. I was like, "Why does Tiger Woods, the best golfer in the world, need this person who has never been on tour? He's never been a winner in any regards, as far as tournaments and such, yet Tiger Woods still helped him." It's because although that person didn't have trophies and PGA Tournament credentials, he was the best at what he did. And so that still allowed him to, despite not having those credentials, still be able to help people. And, this is sort of the same approach, I feel. It's not like you don't have to be that in order to still help people. You don't have to be perfect in order to still provide value.

Pat:
And maybe people see Instagrams and they see the real life and it's like, "Hey, you know what? My life is not perfect. Look at back here, look at all the mess I have in this picture. This is what it's like. This is real life. And I often spend more time helping other people organize versus myself. And that's why it's like this because I'm so focused on my clients." And you can actually spin that around to be like, "Yes, I know that you're seeing this in the background, but I focus my efforts on you first, often." And, that could be a nice sort of deflector if you will.

Lela:
Yeah. I've noticed a lot of people like to see my mess just to see that I'm not perfect. And that actually has kind of been how my social media has shifted lately is because I don't do the super-perfect things unless someone asks me to, even when I was organizing their house. And so, that's kind of been the angle that I've always been with is, as long as it's organized ish, it's good enough.

Pat:
I love that. I would recommend trying to find some sort of phrase that sums that up, that becomes like your mantra, right? Like organized is better than perfect. And that just becomes, I don't know if that's the phrase, but it's just like-

Lela:
Yeah.

Pat:
That's the mantra. And you say that all the time and it becomes the thing that you say at the end of your videos, it becomes a tagline. And then, people start sharing that, it becomes part of the language of what you do. And it's almost like, "Yeah, I follow Lela because organized is better than perfect, right?" Or imperfect perfection, whatever you want to do, that language can sort of infiltrate your audience and become something they can hold onto and you can become known for. Right? We know other personalities for certain things that they often say, that could be really neat and a great way to just kind of hit it straight on. Right?

Pat:
Instead of avoiding it and just wondering, just go, "Yeah, it's not perfect, but it's organized. And I'm at peace because of it." And it's like, "Wow, okay."

Lela:
Definitely because I mean, you're right. That's real life. And that's what I try to help women realize is, you can be perfectly organized, but you still can't find anything. And there's no way you can keep it up. Most of the time, when I would go into my clients' houses and organize by myself, without them helping, within a month it was back the way it was again. And they would call me back in.

Pat:
I mean, which is good, they're calling you back in for help. And they know they need your help, but I like that too. I think on your social media too, just kind of the whole, there's a lot of memes that could probably be used within your stuff. I don't know if you use it already, but vision and then reality, or what is it? Like dream, the way we think it is versus how it actually is. Those kinds of fun memes and lessons within those can be really cool, but that's really cool. I'm so stoked to hear that the brand is growing. And especially now during the pandemic, when everybody's at home more now.

Pat:
And so, it's even more of a mess, right? We have more chances to move things around and clutter up. And so I really like this. I think it's a very unique approach too, because I've seen Hoarders. I've seen all those other shows and it's like the professionals, they study this, that's their thing. But it's like, "I just want somebody to help me out a little bit. Right? I want somebody real." And I think you can become that face of just, "Hey, this is just the person who is real life." Right? So that's great. What else is a challenge to you right now?

Lela:
I'm ready to grow my business more now that I've shifted away from the organizing side in-home. I still do virtual, but now that the blog is growing, I'm ready to kind of monetize past the ads and affiliates. And I know I can do a course. I could do a membership. There's so many different things I can do. And I'm not really sure exactly where to start because my audience ranges from people in their thirties, all the way to women who are retired. And it's kind of all over the place as far as some of them are good with technology, and of course it would be great and others just want to watch a video.

Lela:
So it's kind of just figuring out where I should go next now that I've got all this extra traffic and all these new eyes, I want to be able to utilize it and move this blog forward.

Pat:
Right. Well, this is a good problem to have. You have options, whatever you do is going to work. It's just kind of, which do you choose? And I always try to go with removing the guesswork as much as possible, meaning try to, I don't know, maybe have conversations or surveys or something where you can gauge at least the highest interest from your audience in terms of how they want to learn this stuff. You know what you need to teach them. Now, the choice is or the struggle is, "Okay, well, in what manner would they prefer to receive this information?"

Pat:
And this is where you can go and even have data to support, "Hey, I chose to do an online course for you, because you said that you needed some accountability. You need some handholding. Yes, some of you said technology was scary, but this is why I chose this platform. And it's actually quite simple to do." And that just means when you're revealing this, you make that technology scary part as easy as possible for people, right?

Pat:
And what you can do also is take a couple people or a few people in your audience, or people who you already have a relationship with through the course first, to kind of beta test it, to just ensure that it is the way that you think you can best help people and they are responding to it, and they're getting results. Then, by the end of the beta program or beta group, you'll have testimonials for when you go big and publicly launch that, and it's tested. And you can even have testimonials from people who say, "Yeah, I'm 60, I'm scared of technology. And yet, Lela's course was still able to help me. You should check it out, even if you're scared."

Pat:
Right? And so that way you can, again, for whatever objections people have, you have an answer for them, right? It's like, "Oh, you're scared of technology. Cool." I do the same thing with my Power Up Podcasting Course. I interviewed a woman named Dr. B, she's over 60. I helped her start her show. I interviewed her on the podcast and she does a much better job of selling my course than I do, because she is like the others who are also scared of technology as well. So that's how you can kind of get around that, but a beta group to test and to validate, as well as some data behind or even conversations that you've had to just verify that, yes, this is something that you get a green light on to move forward and build is great. And then, I can imagine just stacking different kinds of solutions afterwards to continue to help in different kinds of ways.

Pat:
I think an online course would be the easiest because it's a contained finite amount of information that is a one-time/payment plan situation, that's not a recurring payment where you have to feel like you have to every month keep up. A membership can potentially come later. But I liked starting with a course first because it's like, "You have a problem. Here's the solution. Here's how much it costs. This is the promise on the other end of this." And then, that's like one container and you can make more courses after that. Or a membership can maybe add on, or I can imagine a book as well. Right?

Pat:
What's the very Spark Joy book? What is that?

Lela:
Oh-

Pat:
Marie Kondo.

Lela:
Yeah. Marie Kondo. I can't remember the name of the book.

Pat:
And she's a very quiet and very to-the-T sort of a teacher. And I can imagine a book from your angle. It's just like, "Yo, we don't have to be perfect, but what did I say? Organized is better than perfect or something." Maybe that's the name of the book. I don't know. But then, you have this book which then introduces you to all these different people. And then, you can start building your email list and that can turn into core sales or even coaching, or even other kinds of group client type situations. You essentially have... The world is your oyster. You can kind of go wherever you want, but that's probably where I would start at least having conversations to see if a course, or what you have in mind, is worth putting time and effort into.

Lela:
Would you suggest that I start with a small course or just go all in with a full-on organizing course?

Pat:
It depends. I don't know what is involved. And so, typically I recommend each course should solve a very specific problem. And what's cool about that is you can have sort of smaller prices that are a little bit more attainable for those little micro problems that you're solving. And then, what you can do, once you have multiple courses, you can bundle them together and you can do a lot of fun things marketing wise like, "Hey, Black Friday is coming just for this time only. I'm putting all my courses together." Or maybe that's something you always offer, but during Black Friday, you offer a deal on it. But, "Hey, if you like this one course you can get access to all of them. Or you can get access to all of them upfront for a special discount." Like where the math makes complete sense, or a person gets an individual one because literally their garage is a mess and that's the only thing they need to help with.

Pat:
But, then they get it. They love your style. You can follow up with them in an email later that says, "Hey, hopefully your garage is looking good. A big common problem with houses beyond the garage are the backyard and the tool shed and all these other things. And so, if you'd like to download the other course, since you're a student already, we'd love to give you access to that one as well. Or, you can buy all of it now and we'll remove the price of that first course for you if you get the big bundle."

Pat:
I mean, there's so many fun things you can do after that. I would start with the one that is the biggest challenge or the most... What would you say is probably the first course might be, or the biggest pain for people organizing everything?

Lela:
It would probably be craft-room organization, since I do work with that crafting company. A lot of my audience has came in from that, and I don't actually teach how to use their craft supplies. I just teach how to organize all the little things that go with it. And that's where a lot of people have come to me because they have all these things, but they don't know what to do with it.

Pat:
Where should I store my clay? I have tons of clay. And I don't know-

Lela:
I think it depends on how much space you have.

Pat:
Yeah. Okay. Well, we need to chat because we, during the pandemic, have gotten a lot of clay from the art and craft store and just, it's everywhere. So-

Lela:
Yeah, I can help you with that.

Pat:
Thank you. Okay. How are you feeling about direction from this point forward?

Lela:
Really good. Yeah. I think you've cleared all this up for me to the point to where I've got just one straight line, instead of all these different ways I can go.

Pat:
Good. And as far as the branding and the professional versus the blog versus client work and virtual in-house, et cetera, that's really important too, and I'm glad we started there because if that's not figured out, none of this other stuff would fit in either. It would just be kind of like, "I don't know how it even fits into everything." So I'm glad that we talked about that too. So give us a quick summary, what are your next steps, do you believe?

Lela:
Right now you've definitely given me the permission to say, "Yes, I am a professional organizer, but no, I'm not like everyone else. And that's okay." I'm definitely going to use that organized is better than perfection. Maybe tailor that line to fit into the brand. Maybe because organized ish is good enough or something like that. And I'm definitely going to get started talking with my audience and finding out if a course is something they want to do, or if they have another idea of something that would be really helpful. And hopefully, they are up for shifting to spend some money with me. Right now everything has been free. So this will be new for all of us.

Pat:
That's great. And, you are supporting a little bit with ads and affiliate income with all the things that you're offering, which is good. So now, it's more diversification and now more control. You get to help these people with the entire experience all the way through, which is really great.

Pat:
I think that another thing you can do to potentially verify that course, could be a direction, is maybe you create, and maybe not even within a course platform or anything, but just on the blog, just a course-like lesson and just go, "Hey, today I wanted to offer something that I'm thinking of doing." And that way you're sort of teasing a little bit. "And I wanted to give you a basic lesson on XYZ." And you summarize it, you have a video to go along with it, you have a worksheet to go along with it too, or what have you, or an organize template of some kind.

Pat:
And then, you ask for feedback below. And that way you can actually see the response. And if you get responses like, and I don't imagine this happening, like crickets or "this isn't helpful" or whatever, then you'd be like, "Okay, well maybe a full-on course is not what I want to do." Right? Or the opposite, what I can imagine happening is, "My gosh, this is great. Please do more, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera." And then you can follow up and say, "Hey, y'all loved that lesson plan that we did. I'm going to do more of those. And in fact, I've had a lot of requests for a full-on course like that and teaching in that style. And that's something that I would eventually charge for, because it requires a lot of time and effort in order to put it together in that way. But you're definitely going to get a lot back. So hold tight as I create that. If you want to be one of the first people to get access to that, join my email list here, or let me know, and I can let you know as I'm creating it."

Pat:
And those become your beta people who've kind of already experienced it with you. So, that's how I would approach it.

Lela:
Yeah. That's genius. I didn't even think about just doing a test blog video and then say, "Hey, if you like this, we can do a whole course on it." That's so smart.

Pat:
Yeah. Do it. Let's remove the guesswork. Let's see if they like it first, and then we can do more if it makes sense. So great. Lela, one more time, where can people find the blog and all the cool things that you have going on?

Lela:Instagram @LelaBurris and LelaBurris.com.

Pat:
That's L-E-L-A B-U-R-R-I-S, right? Dot com.

Lela:
Yep.

Pat:
Fantastic. Thank you, Lela. Best of luck to you. Hopefully, and if you wouldn't mind, I'd love to follow up with you later. We can do a follow-up episode and just kind of check in on you and see how things are going, if that's cool?

Lela:
Absolutely.

Pat:
Awesome. All right. I hope you enjoy this conversation and coaching call with Lela. Lela, congrats to you on the success and the continued success, I'm sure, and I'm looking forward to seeing how you manage the brand as you continue to grow it and start to truly define yourself and your brand in a way that you're comfortable in the way other people can connect with you and build a relationship with you too. So thank you again so much. LelaBurris.com, L-E-L-A-B-U-R-R-I-S.com. So we can check in on her and see how her brand is progressing over time.

Pat:
And for you, the listener, thank you so much for paying attention and for sticking around with me until the end here. I am so grateful for you and for all the amazing feedback that I've been getting continuously here on the show, on my other show, Smart Passive Income, within our communities like SPI Pro and just everywhere. I'm so, so grateful for how much you enjoy learning from our style and just kind of keeping it real. So, that's what we do here.

Pat:
And if you'd like to get potentially coached like Lela did today, all you have to do is go to AskPat.com, and you can just go from there. And I just want to wish you all the best of luck and hopefully, check in with you next week, because we got another great episode with you, with somebody who is additionally a student of mine, who has just been absolutely crushing it. In fact, she was an original student of our Smart From Scratch course. Literally beginning from scratch. How do we start? And she's crushing it. She is going to be talking about her second online course. So we got a lot to talk about with her, but you got to subscribe so you don't miss it. So make sure you do that. Thanks so much. I appreciate you. And I'll see you next week. Cheers. And as always, #TeamFlynn for the win. Peace out.