SPI 471: How to Become a Better Communicator with Kolarele Sonaike

SPI 471: How to Become a Better Communicator with Kolarele Sonaike

Pat Flynn:
If you're a content creator, one amazing strategy you can use - I just want to give this to you up front - is to after you post something, after you share something, when you see that it's getting a great response, don't just be like, "Yay. Got a great response." We want to go deeper with that because that's a sign that people want to learn more, that something about that thing that you published mattered to people. So let's highlight it even more.

And that's exactly what we're doing today. Because last year, in 2020, the content team decided to share more success stories from the SPI audience on the blog. So we have a success story series that a lot of people have been enjoying. And there was one in particular that was published July 24th, 2020, featuring a man who could help us become better communicators. And what better way to communicate with somebody who can help us communicate than to communicate on a podcast where we could hear his voice and get some learning from none other than Kolarele Sonaike.

His full name is actually Kolarele Sonaike from GreatSpeech.co. And I'll tell you this interview - and you hear me say it several times closer to the end - is definitely going to be one for the ages because the tactics, the strategies, the approach that you can take with the words that you use, but not only that, the way you interact with the person you're communicating with, it's just unmatched in terms of what this can do for you. So highly recommend. You take notes on this one. You sit and listen in, Kolarele has an amazing voice. In fact, it's very easy to listen to. And that's what I love about these interviews: I learn at the same time that you do, and it's so much fun. And so if you're looking to improve your sales pages, to making better deals with partners, to potentially selling your business one day, to trying to come up with a contract with a consultant, this is for you. So really this is for everybody. So let's start the show, here we go.

Announcer:
Welcome to the Smart Passive Income Podcast, where it's all about working hard now, so you can sit back and reap the benefits later. And now your host - a recent dream of his is to interview Michael J. Fox and talk about the past and future together - Pat Flynn!

Pat:
What's up, everybody? Pat Flynn here, and welcome to Session 471 of the Smart Passive Income Podcast. And like I said, today, we're talking with Kolarele from GreatSpeech.co. He's, in fact, a barrister. Or, if you don't know what that is, it's like a lawyer, basically. And this is in England and you'll hear his amazing English voice in just a second, but very thankful that we were able to feature him on the blog. We'll link to the feature in the show notes, of course. And you'll get to know him even more here today. So let's not wait anymore. If you want to better your communication and learn how to get better results in your business, here he is.

Kolarele, welcome to the Smart Passive Income Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Kolarele Sonaike:
Pat, man, it's an honor honestly. I really didn't expect this, had you on my podcast, which was so fantastic. So to get a return invite is brilliant, man. Thank you.

Pat:
Well, it will be valuable for everybody listening, and this is exactly why I wanted to bring you on, because you help us take this knowledge that we have and the ability to help people: you help people package it in a way that allows people to understand that that's true. And we had just been talking right before hitting record, and you phrased it like this: "This is for those of you who know you are great at something, who know that you can help somebody, but sometimes you see others who maybe can't do it as great as you who get better results because they're better communicators," and you help all of us become better communicators. Being able to use words and communicate in a way that gets people to understand us. And that's so important in sales and marketing, relationships, and really all aspects of life. And I'd love to dig in and learn about how you became so interested in this that this became your life. What was Kolarele doing that led to this point to just master this?

Kolarele:
That's interesting, actually. So I've always been argumentative. I think as a kid, I would debate with my parents, right? And defend my brothers and things. And then that led to eventually studying law and becoming a lawyer or a barrister here in the UK, an attorney. Which is really just spending your time trying to persuade the judge on your client's behalf, trying to persuade clients to see things your way, trying to negotiate with your opponent, and a lot of writing as well, so every aspect of it is just communication-focused. So that just gives you day-in day-out trial and error experience of what is it that moves people, that influences people, that changes people's minds or at least pushes them in the direction you need them to go to achieve what you want. And so it's kind of my passion became my profession. And then from there that led in kind of a roundabout way to coaching other people in communication generally. So I don't know, it's just always been me.

Pat:
That's really cool. And I'm curious, in your career as an attorney, at what point did you really find yourself? I know with anything, anytime we're trying to communicate, whether on a podcast or as an attorney or in whatever job, it can take time. I'd love to know how long it took you to sort of find your voice, if you will. And how did you know you found your voice?

Kolarele:
So there was a specific moment when I figured it out that what I was doing beforehand was wrong. Well, I'll tell you about that first of all. So I was against, well, it's a QC, which is kind of the highest level barrister in the UK. I was quite early on in my career. And at bar school they teach you to be very formal, very austere in the way that you communicate. Yes, my lord and it's very kind of baritone, that kind of thing, but very stiff. And so that's what I was doing because that's how I've been taught. It didn't feel natural, but that's the way I was doing it. And then I came up against QC who when we met, I expected him to be a bit standoffish and very serious. And he was a really chatty, conversational guy.

Oh, that's nice. I thought he'd be not that nice, but he was. And then he went into court and the case began and he just carried on chatting to the judge. But instead of me to the judge, right. But in a very conversational way. I was like, "Okay, but when are you going to start, man? We're in here, when are you going to begin?" And he just carried on and carried on. And then as I paid attention, I realized that he was taking all of my best arguments and just turning them against me, but in a very conversational, very easygoing way. There were three judges in this panel, they were interacting and debating and discussing, and then he finished and kind of like looked at me and like, "Yeah, over to you kid." And I knew already that I'd lost.

I mean, it was a really tough case. So I kind of warned my client. But still, I could tell that he had just got them cooked. I did my thing, very formal, very stiff, very austere, and I lost, but that experience, I literally almost overnight just decided, "Right. That is it. That is how I want to communicate. I want to be conversational. I want to connect with who I'm speaking with first and foremost, and then my arguments and all that will kind of work within that sphere." So that was kind of a real specific moment that I remember changing things. But then it then took me about 10 years before I really felt I've found that style that is absolutely naturally me. So yeah, it was a journey, man.

Pat:
10 years. What was encapsulated within those 10 years to help you find your style?

Kolarele:
Yes. So the advantage of being a barrister as I say is, it's literally trial and error. So you're just in court every day or every week, and you're doing things, you're giving speeches, you're just trying different things. And it's a very versatile profession in that way. You happen to cross-examine people. And I remember just knowing that, "Okay, I've got to be conversational and I know that works for me, but how can I do it?" I think there was a particular case where I kind of destroyed some - and it is a terrible thing to say, right, but I destroyed some witnesses in the witness box. Terrible as it is, man, just have to say that, but I remember feeling that's it. I found the way I did it, not by being aggressive verbally, but kind of intellectually aggressive.

And I really shaped the whole case well and it worked exactly as I predicted. And so I think it just took that long to settle into it, really. Which is also why when I coach people, I always try to tell them, this is a work in progress. It's a journey. Celebrate the journey, the moving forward part. Don't just celebrate when you eventually get there, because it will take time.

Pat:
What kind of people do you coach typically?

Kolarele:
Yes. So I'm typically coaching, as you kind of said it at the beginning, it's usually people who are at the level where their ability has taken them as far as ability can take you, which is people know you're good, you know you're good, but there's a level above that and beyond that, that is where the communicators play. And typically my clients are the ones that come and realize that, yeah, I want to get there. I want to be a leader. I want to be a CEO. Or as an entrepreneur, I want to kind of really push into the space where I'm called to speak in events and things like that and build my business profile that way. So that's typically the kind of the people that I work with.

Pat:
And what is communication like for those people who you start to work with as far as their baseline and what you're working with? What are some struggles they might be having or mistakes that they might be making that you as the expert can kind of see right away?

Kolarele:
So obviously one of the big ones - because when people think communication they often gravitate to public speaking, as in that's the only element of communication. And so there's public speaking fear, which is one that really afflicts a lot of people kind of at different levels. So with things like that, I tell people - so I use an analogy with, I think it was in Oprah Winfrey in about her 19th season, I think it was, did the episode where she gave away a car to every member of her audience.

This the one where she goes, "You get a car and you get a car and you ..." It's kind of one of the most famous Oprah episodes. So I asked my clients who are really nervous about public speaking or communication generally, say, "Okay, put yourself in Oprah shoes at the moment just before you go out on stage. And you know you're about to give a car away to every member of your audience. How do you feel in that moment?" Right. Let me ask you, Pat, how would you feel if you knew you were about to give a car away to every member of your audience?

Pat:
I'd be so excitedly nervous because I'm about to drop a bomb on these guys in such a good ... we're going to change lives here. This is going to make people so, so happy.

Kolarele:
Yeah. You'd be thinking about how am I going to reveal it? Whose lives am I going to change in the audience? That kind of thing. You wouldn't be thinking about, what am I going to do with my hands? And oh, my voice is shaky. All of that stuff just wouldn't occur to you, not because you don't have that nervousness, but because it's focused and channeled on what you're going to deliver to your audience. So people always give me that answer. So all I say to them is this: substitute the car because we can't all give a car away, like Oprah, right. But substitute the car for the value you are going to give to your audience. If you can create a moment or a speech or whatever it is of just outstanding incomparable value for your audience, you will go into that speech with confidence, with nervous excitement, thinking about your audience, as opposed to focusing on yourself.

So when I had you on my podcast, I remember I was talking to you about the speeches. I've watched so many of your YouTube speeches when I find some of them. And you really kind of... it was just clear that you thought a lot about how am I going to help my audience. And I know you would say nervous, but you could see that it's, okay, I know I'm about to deliver something great. So you kind of did it. So yeah. That's just the approach idea for that specific kind of challenge.

Pat:
That's so good. Oh my god. That's so good, dude. Oh my gosh, that's so great. What a great way to frame it. When it comes to communication, obviously, it's not just getting on stage in front of a lot of people. Some of the most important conversations and communication one might have is one-on-one with somebody you might be selling to, or a kid who you're trying to teach a lesson to, or an executive who you get five minutes in a room with. What do you recommend we approach those situations with?

Kolarele:
So I always kind of teach my clients and kind of get them to understand that there's really three levels of communication. So level one is kind of the basic level where you're just imparting information, right? So you say it, somebody understands it. They've got it. That's also the level where people think about logic. So when you're doing any kind of thing, you're trying to persuade people. You say, "Okay, if I give them rational reasons, they're going to buy into it." Right? But typically what people find is that half people will half people won't. So after a while, you'll probably start to hear about, "Oh, I know you've got to use emotion." So people kind of realize that, yeah, actually, it's really not just about information, but about persuasion. And then they think about using emotion because they heard emotion is very important to persuading and that's very true. So that's kind of level two of communication. And that's actually to be honest, where most people tap out because they think in terms of, okay, right. I'll use some logic, maybe throw some emotion in there and they'll generally be pretty persuasive with that.

Pat:
Sure. Tell a story to put that emotion in there, right?

Kolarele:
Yeah. Yeah. But there's a third level, which is kind of the highest level, which is when you establish a connection with whoever you're communicating with. Because once you establish that connection, everything just flows. They're just with you. Then they're not thinking about, am I being persuaded or not, but it's, hey, let's think about other things or how can we do this? I always talk about Steve Jobs' reality distortion field, as he called it, which is when people were in his presence, they just felt so connected to him that they bought whatever he was saying. Or as we can see that's going on right now, right? President Trump, he, for his base at least, has established such a connection with them that he can say pretty much anything and they will buy it. Or people had that with President Obama.

So I'd really try and get my clients to focus on communication that establishes a connection with whoever they're communicating with whether it's one-on-one or an audience. And that way you'll kind of be able to communicate and persuade and all those things much much stronger. Storytelling is also a good part of that as well.

Pat:
Yeah. Yeah, I would imagine. So in a one-on-one conversation where I might be trying to pitch a business or sell somebody on something, is connection just a matter of like, hey, my favorite color is red too. I see you're wearing a red tie. Right? I think this is so important. I know it is. But we want to take the, okay, so then if this then that approach, if tie is red, I will compliment and then we are connected. But that I know that's not true. Can you go a little bit further and deeper into, well, how do we make these connections?

Kolarele:
Yeah, of course. So even at that level, right, there is something to say to that. So for instance, I'm a West Ham supporter, that's West Ham Football Club here in the UK, and I put that in my profile, I think on my LinkedIn, anybody who sees that who's into football, that's one of the first things they'll say to me, because somehow they feel a connection and then therefore the conversation kind of starts to go from that. So even the little part of, hey some sort of connection that can really work to open things up. But in terms of really trying to establish that connection, especially in a one-on-one, things like that, what I always emphasizes is deep, empathetic listening, right. Is where you -

Pat:
Pathetic?

Kolarele:
Empathetic, sorry.

Pat:
Empathetic. Yeah. Oh, absolutely.

Kolarele:
Just deep, empathetic listening where what you're doing is kind of tuning everything else out and giving people the benefit of your complete attention. And you're listening not just for what they say, but the emotion behind what they're saying. And then reflecting that and trying to tap into that. And when people feel that, "Oh yeah, this person's really hearing me," they feel connected.

And then if you're an entrepreneur, I was saying with what you were doing, right, how we kind of got into contact, which is you just put out that I want to hear people, I want to listen. And that's the first time I remember that I had ever got in contact with you guys, because I felt that Pat's really trying to listen here. So that's kind of a simple example. And when people feel that you are actually giving them the benefit of your attention, they feel connected to you. And then they feel, Oh, this person really gets me. And then the conversation becomes much more interactive, much more engaged, much easier, especially as an entrepreneur.

Pat:
I feel like you're giving me relationship advice as well at the same time.

Kolarele:
No. I can't vouch for that because I try - all these things once it's me and my wife literally go out the window, right? I don't take any of my own advice.

Pat:
How do you define the difference between persuasion and connection and manipulation?

Kolarele:
Yeah, it's a very good point. And the truth is, I think the difference is actually primarily your motive rather than the techniques, because you can use this same technique for good or evil, right? You can use it to manipulate. So like Robert Cialdini, obviously, he's done all this persuasion stuff, but he's got a whole thing on pre-suasion where you effectively, you set the scene so that the scene itself is a place where it's just conducive to whatever it is you're trying to persuade people on. Things like you put inspiring words on your wall and people see that, subliminally they get more positive or whatever it is. So that can be used for pure manipulation, but it can also be used for just persuasion, not without any ill gain. So I think it's primarily your motive as to what you choose to use it for. Pretty much like any skill, right? You can use it for good or ill.

Pat:
Yeah. And with great power, comes great responsibility.

Kolarele:
Exactly.

Pat:
Communication is a powerful thing for sure. And it's what makes us humans different than any other species, really, when we think about it. Let's say we're in the middle of a conversation, we may be pitching an idea or working with a team member perhaps, and things aren't aligning between the two parties. People are becoming argumentative. They might be putting up defenses. We start to see a lot of emotion coming into play. How does one in that sort of environment still come across and share our ideas? Or do you have any recommendations? And you as somebody who has been in front of judges where arguing is part of the process, how might one within the business environment with a team member or another person, a partner, how does one communicate in that environment?

Kolarele:
Yeah, I mean, so again, with the theme of connection, kind of rather than an adversarial thing, it's what you're trying to do is to get everyone to in a way put the problem outside of themselves, right? So one of the difficulties with communication is when the problem is between you. And so you're kind of saying, no, it's this way. They say no, it's that way. And there's kind of an impasse. Whereas when you take the problem and kind of put it outside of yourself and then both come to the same site to look at the problem and say, how do we solve the problem? Then you start to see differences. So for instance, I mean, I always tell people if you're negotiating, for instance, don't ask the other person, "Well, why do you say that?" Because they will always have a reason and a justification. Doesn't have to be a good one or not, but in their minds, they'll always be able to justify it.

But if you focus instead on saying things like, "Okay, well, so how are we going to solve this?" Just the difference between not Why are you taking that point of view? but How are we going to solve this? puts them into the mind frame of, okay, well, if we're going to solve this, we'll have to do this. And it's kind of saying, I'm going to take the problem and put it over there and let both of us look at the problem in a way apart from ourselves. So I think the main thing when you're getting to that slight impasse in whatever, is really do what you can to get everybody focusing on that the problem is separate from the people. And then that way people start to kind of use their minds to approach it. And it almost gives you license to suggest things that you wouldn't, because everybody's accepted that the problem is separate to the individuals involved.

Pat:
That's beautiful. How do we solve this together? We're on the same team here, let's figure it out and we're on the same team. Thank you for that.

Communication in person is one thing, communication online where communication is often one way or it might be even through something like an email - do you have any suggestions on how to number one, communicate, which I think we all know how to do on these platforms, but also persuade and connect on these online platforms. Do you have favorite social platforms or favorite strategies to have the same kind of momentum that you might have in a one-to-one conversation or one-to-many on a stage presence, but on this thing where we're all hiding behind our keyboards and devices?

Kolarele:
That's a difficult one. And it's actually one that I don't think even personally that I've totally settled on what I think works best. So there are a few things, I mean, simple things like if you're doing Zoom calls and things, it's little techniques like look at the camera when you speak, which feels artificial because actually, at the moment, I'm looking at my screen, I've been doing that all the way through this. So I'm not taking my own advice, but if you're in a Zoom call, look up at the actual camera where you won't be able to see what's going on because the screen is down a bit, but that will make the person feel that they're connected to you because you're actually making eye contact or eye connection, which is what I really like to call it.

So things like that, I think make a difference. In terms of the online space, what I've kind of found is that you've got to really lean into your personality even more. So if I give a good example, my LinkedIn profile used to be very kind of identikit, right? It was I'm this, I'm that, I do this because I'd seen that's what pretty much everyone else did. And that's how I had it even for my coaching work, not just my barrister work. And then I actually decided to just switch it. And my LinkedIn statement now is very much, this is how I coach, this is who I am. I kind of say to people, don't go to a coach if you're looking for a mild, 5 percent improvement, you don't need a coach for that. Go and read a book, right?

Only come to me if you want to change things. If you've reached a point where you can't get any further and you need to transform things, I will be hard on you, I will go deep, you'll say things to me you won't say to other people, and you've got to be comfortable with that. And that's how I coach. Basically don't come to me if you're not ready for that. And I really thought long and hard before I did that. Because I was like, "Ooh, that's a bit out there." But I felt that was being true to myself. I felt right to do that. And just night and day in terms of the impact, people come to me saying ... I ask them, "Why did you come to me?" So, "Well, I saw that statement and I felt that's exactly what I needed." So in a way I think the online world, because at the same time we're connected and disconnected, lean into your personality and your character just even more. Just be yourself plus one grade or whatever it is. So people feel that connection.

Pat:
That's fantastic. And I think on top of that, because we're not communicating in person, we actually do have available a lot of other tools that can help enhance the messages and the feeling and the emotion and the call to action. For example, the idea that on a video, it's not just you and the person watching, it's the B-roll, the music, the words on the screen. There's so many other tools. So it's not a disadvantage, it can be an advantage, but all across the way, it's still about what it is that the message is and how it can affect a person's life. And so thank you for that. And speaking of affecting people's lives, I know you've affected the lives of many of your clients. I'd love to, if you wouldn't mind sharing a few examples, you don't have to mention any names, but I'd love to learn about some of the transformations that you've been able to offer others and sort of what was life like before for a particular person? And what is now opened up for them as a result of purely focusing on their communication skills?

Kolarele:
Well, I actually just kind of finished off a group coaching program or like a cohort of a group coaching program. And I actually asked them that exact question. I said, "Don't tell me just that you enjoyed it. What impact has it had in the real world?" And what's lovely about it ... I mean, it's just one of those things where there's nothing like doing work that actually has a positive impact. That's one of the reasons why being a lawyer can be tough because you don't always feel that ... I mean, a lot of times you are, but not always. So what's lovely is that I was talking about, I deal with people who are at the cusp or at least the limit of their ability, where their ability can take them and needs to get to the next level in terms of communication.

And so I've just had their feedback and it's just to a person, they're saying this has changed everything. In fact, one lady who's actually in the US was saying, "What's great is my managers came to me and said, 'There's something different about you? What is it?'" And so she hadn't told them she was on the program or anything like that. And they had come and said, "There's something different." And she said, "Yeah, I'm just so much more confident. I'm articulating what I want to say. I'm saying it and believing in it." One of the things I do with my clients is they get sent weekly, what I call, video tasks. Where I will send them kind of a scenario that they just have to talk back to me, it's about one or two minutes. And then I'll critique that, give them feedback on it.

And just the act of every week having to talk and speak - and they can prepare as long as they want, but they only get one take. And just the fact of having to do that has meant they just got more and more comfortable with just getting up and speaking. And at the start they'd all be doing, "Okay, I'm not sure what I should do here, but okay. Right. Let me give it a go. Okay. So, and then," and then I always say, "I don't want any of that. Take all of that stuff out and just start where you started 35 seconds in," right. And just that means that they've gotten so much more confident.

And so when they're in the real world, they're able to articulate without prevarication, they're standing their ground or saying what they want to say. And then we do a lot of specific techniques of how to be persuasive when you're not naturally a persuasive person and all of this kind of stuff, which has just given them a lot of tools, but mainly I think it's the belief that they now have, and that's, to be honest, it's inspiring to kind of hear that feedback.

Pat:
That's amazing. And it almost feels like you're providing that environment that you had when you learned to find your voice, which was just constant reps day in, day out. And as a coach, you're just offering the same kind of space because these people probably aren't lawyers or are going through the same opportunities that you had. So that's fantastic. Can you tell everybody where to go and find you and perhaps the name of the program or whatever else you might have to offer so they can find you?

Kolarele:
Yeah, thanks, Pat. So probably the easiest way is for people to just take the podcast player they're using right now and search for The Great Speech Podcast. And they will find my podcast with lots of episodes on basically everything devoted to communication skills. So I cover topics like how to build your charisma, how to use storytelling as part of your communication, how to develop the sound of your voice. I interview other experts on things like body language and stuff like that. I do a series focused on speeches by women, which is really, really underrepresented in terms of appreciation of great speeches by women. And I also do an analysis of great speeches in history - done one on The Tilbury Speech by Queen Elizabeth I, the I Have a Dream speech by Martin Luther King, Jr. So that's probably the best way to find me.

On top of that, of course, I'm on social media. LinkedIn is my preferred network. So if you reach out to me there and connect with me, with my name, I'll certainly connect with you there. I do LinkedIn live shows as well every week. So that's kind of a good one, as well. And obviously you can go to my website, GreatSpeech.co, especially for those that are actually looking for communication skills, help, or coaching. That's really my passion. So reach out to me there and I do kind of a free session that helps with people to kind of identify what their communication skills challenges are, and then I can tell them whether I can help them or not. So, yeah, that's probably the best way.

Pat:
That's beautiful. Thank you. One of my favorite movies as of late that I'm sure you're familiar with, The King Speech. So good. And every actor, every moment, I literally, as a communicator myself, can relate to a lot of what he was struggling with. And so, anyway, I'm just reminded of that.

Kolarele:
It's brilliant.

Pat:
But before we finish up, I want to ask you one more question and that is across your career, as you've become a better and more proficient communicator, what is the number one piece of advice that you could offer your younger self, somebody who was perhaps not at that 10-year mark yet, still trying to find your voice? What would you tell yourself now with where you're at and what you've learned?

Kolarele:
It's okay to be you, basically. As I said, I spent the first half kind of trying to be what I was told you should be if you're a barrister in that instance, but just generally. And it took me a while, as I said that particular instance, but then really trying to just be free and confident enough to be myself. And the more I was that the more my clients loved it, the more persuasive I was in court, the more I was able to give speeches and things like that, that people actually listening to and connecting with. So be yourself just more, right. That's I think the biggest thing that I have learned in this journey.

Pat:
That's beautiful. Thank you Kolarele. Appreciate you so, so much for coming on and sharing your wisdom with us and your stories and just so much great advice. This is going to be one for the ages, for sure. And I'm really excited to continue to share this with people who are both starting and already advanced with communication. Because it's something we could always improve upon. And I think you're the guy for the job. So thank you. Appreciate you coming on and-

Kolarele:
Pat, I know you're trying to wrap up. I just want to say, man, thank you because I would not be podcasting if it wasn't for you. And in terms of my personal entrepreneurial journey, it would definitely be a whole lot longer if it wasn't for you. 'Cause I've consumed everything you've done and your brilliance. So thank you.

Pat:
Thank you, my friend. Well, it's my absolute pleasure to have you here, and I'm so stoked to hear everybody's reaction to this episode. And I look forward for us to connect again soon in the future.

Kolarele:
Absolutely.

Pat:
See, wasn't that an epic interview? That was just so much fun, And Kolar, thank you so much for your time today and especially the kind words you mentioned at the end there on how much you've progressed as a result of listening to this show. And I just absolutely love featuring members of the SPI audience who have gone on to do amazing things who then can come back and provide even more value to the people here. So let's all give Kolarele a big thank you and shout out. And that's just amazing. So if you want to check him out: GreatSpeech.co. If you want to learn more, you could either potentially hire him or at least learn from him for free on his blog and with his articles. And again, that's GreatSpeech.co.

And of course we'll link to all these great places on the show notes page, SmartPassiveIncome.com/session471. Again, that's SmartPassiveIncome.com/session471. And hopefully this has helped you improve your communication. The other thing that's helped me improve communication is just going out there and communicating. The podcast and being consistent with it, right? The blog and writing with it, getting up on videos and publishing them on YouTube. That has all helped me. That combined with everything we learned here today, man, it's going to do awesome.

So thank you again so much. Make sure you hit that subscribe button if you haven't already so you can get the upcoming Friday followup episode coming where we go a little bit deeper into communication. I'll tell you some stories about different ways that I've done it well, and then I haven't done it so well. And we'll talk more about that on Friday in our follow-up Friday episodes. Thank you for all the great comments and suggestions about that. And we have another episode coming out next week too. So thank you so much. I appreciate you. This has been great and take care. We'll see you. Peace out, and Team Flynn for the win.

Thanks for listening to the Smart Passive Income Podcast at SmartPassiveIncome.com. I'm your host, Pat Flynn. Sound design and editing by Paul Grigoras. Our senior producer is Sara Jane Hess, our series producer is David Grabowski, and our executive producer is Matt Gartland. The Smart Passive Income Podcast is a production of SPI Media. We'll catch you in the next session.