AP 1180: Where Are They Now? Julienne DesJardins from DesJardins Digital LLC

AP 1180: Where Are They Now: Julienne DesJardins from DesJardins Digital LLC

Pat Flynn:
What's up, everybody? Pat Flynn here, and welcome to episode 1,180 of AskPat 2.0. And this is a special rendition or kind of episode of AskPat where we bring people who've been on the show before to get coached back to tell us what's up. How are things going? And today we're talking with Julienne from JulienneDesJardins.com, and she supports business owners through virtual assistant services, email service providers, Squarespace, social media management, that sort of thing.

And the first time she was on the show back in 2018, so quite a while back, she was having some trouble because she met her client limit, and she wanted to know, “How do we take this thing? I'm overworked. I'm doing a lot of these things. I don't think I could take on any more, which limits my potential income.” Right? “How do I start either building the team out or creating an agency or anything like that?”

And we reference that older episode of the beginning of this “Where are they now?” episode. And we start talking about how she's taken that advice and where she's gone since then. Obviously, a lot has happened in the last couple of years. So we're going to hear exactly what she has done and how great things are going and what she's implemented, so that you can follow suit and learn how to implement and actually make some more time in your life and give yourself more freedom too.

So here she is, Julienne. You can find her at JulienneDesJardins.com, J-U-L-I-E-N-N-E D-E-S-J-A-R-D-I-N-S.com. Here we go.

Julienne, welcome back to AskPat. Thanks for coming and joining us again here today.

Julienne DesJardins:
Thank you very much for having me back at least just so I can say thank you for last time.

Pat:
You're welcome. You're welcome. The last time we chatted, it was a long time ago, actually episode 1,027. So we just started these coaching calls, and we've been doing a lot of them since then. So I'm really excited to travel back in time to talk about that, because I remember you were sort of at your client limit, and you were doing a lot of stuff on your own and wanting to build an agency and whatnot. Do you recall some of the struggles that you were having and challenges that you were having at that time? Can you remember?

Julienne:
Yes. And actually in preparation for our chat, I went back and listened, and I hear so clearly now what was wrong, but it was so helpful. I was trying to transition from a VA to an agency model where I had identified the team members, developer, graphic designer. I had the people in place, that took a while. And then I wasn't converting those packages. When I would pitch the team, I was pitching the team because I was dealing with a waiting list. So I was saying, if you want to get started now, you can work with the team. Otherwise, you have to wait for me. And I hear it so clearly now. But that's what we were working on was how do I get... The bulk of my business even still today is referrals, either from the platforms that I'm with or from existing clients. And so how do I get someone who came to me because her friend says I'm awesome to work with other people?

Pat:
That's great. I mean, referrals are a great sign. It means you are doing great work or else nobody would refer you, which obviously makes a lot of sense. I love also on your website. I was visiting your website. It looks a little bit different than what I think I remember. But one phrase you share here that I just wanted to point out for everybody because I really love the way you said this: “It's more like strategic partner than casual support.” And I think that just sets the tone. I struggle a lot when I review websites and stuff to have people go, "Well, why is this different?" When did you start to really hone in on your voice and who you were and what you were offering? When did that come about?

Julienne:
You know what? I think probably that still is a journey that as you do other things, then you kind of hone more in, right? But I think shortly after that, it's kind of with anything in this, after you do it, once you're a little bit braver and you have proven the concept. Now that I had proven that someone would purchase the team and we can stay with you for a whole host of things and for a long time, I think that's when I started to understand that I've been freelancing for 10 years, VA for less than that. But I have been around for a while, and some of my clients are still five, six years on a monthly retainer every single month. So I think that notion of, you saw me pregnant, now you see my kid growing up, and same for me with you, that it's a relationship. I think that that only came for me with time.

Pat:
Time is one of those things that you kind of need, but we can't get until we wait it out, and we have to be patient with it sometimes, which is really interesting. Do you consider yourself the owner of an agency at this point? How would you describe your business today?

Julienne:
I think the structure is very similar to what we talked last time. I'm project manager and implementer in some things. I do say for ease, I mean, I wouldn't pitch myself as a VA anymore. I say I own a marketing agency. Sometimes I use the word boutique, I don't know, because people understand what I mean that. It's teeny tiny, and we're just a couple of people delivering good services. I do say I own an agency. Yeah, to answer the question.

Pat:
That's cool, because we were questioning that thought earlier, and I'm so glad to hear that you're sort of owning that now yet you haven't grown to 50 people on your team. How are you approaching growth? Are you more on the Paul Jarvis company of one? Like, everything's cool. I just want to stay steady, or I want to be Elon Musk and go to Mars. Where do you fit in with regards to the growth of your company?

Julienne:
I would definitely say the former. At the height I had probably, I would think seven subcontractors, and it was too much, actually. I'm sure that it can be done. I know people are doing it. I'm scaled back a little bit to four people, and I'm happier. I know that people are doing it, but I'm the CEO around here, right? And this is what we're going to do. What I found was that particularly where the team members are in the right seat on the bus, so to speak, that if I was relying on someone for a deliverable and I don't know your specific thing, I had a couple of issues in the beginning where I was stuck, not able to move forward. And so having a couple people around that can do that thing or me expanding my skills, that was how it shook out for me that it's just more comfortable for me to be super honed in on the clients and then super honed in on the team.

Pat:
I like that. That makes sense to me versus going too big and then maybe dropping the ball every once in a while. And if you're going to be boutique, like you said, you treat your clients like gold; they are everything. And that's great. I love that you're building relationships with your clients as well. How did your clients fare? And I'm going to ask this question about you in just a minute, but you being a person who helps people with their businesses and whatnot, we all went through something crazy this past year with relation to the pandemic and COVID. How did you, as somebody who helps them grow their businesses, help them at a time when everything was just so at unrest? How did you as the CEO and boss, with relation to, and I know you care about your clients, that must have been hard to deal with multiple companies going through some stuff.

Julienne:
Yeah. I mean, at any given time, probably I've got around 15 clients active in that month, and that's a lot of emotional bandwidth to deal with yourself and then all of them, because it's their families and their whole thing, right? In general, I would say I still had some clients that wanted to, which on a good year I wouldn't necessarily subscribe to, “You have to send an email on this day” or whatever. But I had people still, I think, because everything was tumultuous, they were clinging to whatever they could in some regard. And so it was a lot of test and pivot to run a promotion, or to throw in a bonus, and try different things and see what happened and what the analytics told us about how your audience responded to that. For the most part though, what did okay, I mean, in terms of maintaining clients, what I found was there was actually, it's kind of hard to remember when sort of everybody's started worrying. Right?

Pat:
Time is warped right now for everybody.

Julienne:
Right. But let's say a March to July, first kind of half, I found that people were more apt to work with me. I had some of the biggest months I had in my business in a while because they were like, "I'm going to use the time and build that funnel that's been on my wishlist. That's actually what we ended up doing for the most part." Obviously you still have to get money in the door, but it ended up being a lot of “Let's just knock stuff off the wishlist.” So it went okay overall.

Pat:
That's super good news. And then now that we are—knock on wood—coming out of this, what's your plan for moving forward from here? Is it just steady as we go? Or do you have anything kind of lined up that you're excited about that's new?

Julienne:
Last year I had my content creation personally kind of went on the back burner. So that's the next thing that needs to get pushed back to the front. I really relied on, as I said, referrals—when I was here last I was and still am a certified expert with ConvertKit, but I've added Thinkific and [inaudible]. And so I was relying on those platform referrals as well, and still some content that's up on YouTube and my blog from previous years that is still converting, but I need to get back to that. That's my biggest thing. And I'm kind of excited about it because I've just been so busy implementing. In general, what I was able to do because I'm working with less clients because of what we crafted. My husband said immediately after we talked, I was happier because I just immediately got to work.

You told me, “I promise this will convert if you just go in and stop delineating between you and the team.” It's been such a gift. During COVID, I’m active in my church, and it needed a lot of help, right? No email list, all of that stuff to be able to communicate with all of these hundreds of families that were dispersed. So I didn't take new clients for a couple of quarters, and that's what I did. And it was such a gift to be able to be of service, to keep my mind busy and not be worried about what was happening around me.

And I wouldn't have been able to do that otherwise. The previous year in between COVID and when you and I talked in 2019, my grandma was in the ICU. She passed away, and the team ran the business while I tended to that. A better-run business has facilitated a more balanced, happier life. I guess, all of that to say, I have also decided to homeschool. So we're looking at kindergarten in a couple of months here too. And I can do that. I can work with these clients and go to horseback riding, which is where we were this morning.

Pat:
That's incredible, because of the way you set up the business. Can you be a little bit more specific in terms of what you mean by that, for those who are listening, who are like, “I'm at home too,” stay-at-home mom or nine to five, doesn't matter. “I have kids as well.” How are you balancing all that? And allowing for the business to still continue to run? What is the secret sauce behind that for you?

Julienne:
Last time you said, as this grew, if I didn't stay honed in on my time, it was going to run away from me. And I heard you, but then learned that the hard way. So I do a lot of time blocking, and I'm very structured. So short answer is, you have to have project management. It's not an option; you got to get everything in there. Fine. I use Basecamp, get it all in there. I use Acuity for my calendar, so my clients are booking retainer and one-offs and then consult calls. All of that is happening, and it's in specific chunks. So in the morning we're up and we're doing our puzzles and outside and whatever. And then they book calls 1 to 4, and you got to get mom gear. You got to get all of the quiet toys and all of that stuff.

And he's got his quiet box and where he sits, in his little book nook. And it took a little bit of fine-tuning and stuff, but that's how I do it now. “This is mom time, and this is work time.” I found before this time, I struggled with being present with the clients. I felt like a bad mom. With my son, I felt like a bad business owner. And I feel much more able to focus in, and this is the time because I'm doing everything... I'm not perfect. Right? But I'm doing everything to the fullest extent that I can. So when I'm there, I'm there, and when I'm here, I'm here; that helps. But yeah, project management, time blocking, short answer.

Pat:
That's my answer as well: time blocking for sure. So that during these hours it's like, okay, my primary focus is the work, and yes, the kids still might run in or whatever, but I know where to go back to when I get out of focus. And then after that, it's all family time. And same thing: If I happen to get out of focus and go to work, I can just check in and go, "Well, this is not the time to do this." Over time, you start to get a little bit more disciplined, and then you start to really honor the calendar. That's the other thing: a lot of people do use time-blocking, but then they don't actually honor that time because, so what's the point? So it takes some practice, like you said, and fine-tuning is really the key. Project management, that’s absolutely fantastic.

I want to switch gears a little bit because you are an expert in how to help others grow their businesses, by the way. Where can people go to find your services and everything that you have going on really quick?

Julienne:
My big, long French name, JulienneDesJardins.com. I'm not actually French, which is another. I had a client get on a concept call from Montreal and just “Bonjour!” And I was like, “I'm sorry. I don't know what you're saying” JulienneDesJardins.com.

Pat:
Julienne. That's J-U-L-I-E-N-N-E, D-E-S-J-A-R-D-I-N-S.com. In today's world, somebody who's just starting out, wanting to get their voice out there, wanting to get clients. There's millions of avenues. I'd love to hear from your perspective, maybe based on not just your expertise, but what's working for your clients right now, where should a person be focusing for growing a business, getting out there, social media platforms? What is the nice combination of stuff right now that you feel is working very well?

Julienne:
Well, obviously there's some things that have hit pause, right? You can't go to your local chamber of commerce event. That kind of stuff. Where I had people having some success with those things, I only deal with service-based businesses. When I'm talking about them, I still have folks have a lot of success just in a Facebook group being in there, the same old, good old-fashioned answer a question, make a connection, that kind of thing. That still is working for a lot of my folks. I deal with a of copywriters, web designers, health coaches, that kind of thing. So they're in those applicable kind of spaces. A ton of referrals, for sure. I think that, and I've seen this in my own business: When I just remember to say, "Hey, did you know I have an opening?" Then they send over clients.

And I had a client last week. I said, "Just go tell them that you launched this new thing and you have space,” and there you go. That converts." So I think those things still are working. Where they're not seeing a lot of traction and it's a massive time suck? Facebook page, right? They'll spend hours making content for that. And it's not succeeding without—there's other things to do like advertising, yada yada. For a smaller business that I'm dealing with and they're just trying to get a little bit of traction when they're getting something new out, then that's not being successful right now. So for sure, I still believe in a good old-fashioned referral.

Pat:
The social part of social that we all sometimes forget sometimes. That's awesome. Thank you for that. I think that is somewhat of a relief I think. For many it's like, "Oh, I just have to actually help people out and let them know that I have this stuff."

Julienne:
And in the same vein, yes, in the same vein, YouTube, I have a lot of clients. And like I mentioned, I mean, I have some videos that I made in 2017, 2018, 2019. When you're targeted and you're thinking about keyword and SEO and all of that stuff, you're answering a very specific question, that lives on. And I often will have a client see a very specific YouTube video about how to do this thing on Squarespace, ConvertKit, whatever. In my description, come on over, they ask to just bypass the consult call. “Can I just send you money?” And that's pretty consistent, that they've already established that “I know you have IQ. I just want to get moving because I know you've already shown me that you can do it.”

Pat:
Video does that?

Julienne:
Yeah. And I have quite a few clients in that position that they're, far more than a Facebook Live, although it is helpful. But YouTube specifically is converting.

Pat:
That reminds me of, I looked up how to add transparent images on top of my video on Streamlabs. That's very specific. And I found this guy, his name is Andrew. And I loved the video; it answered my question. And then in his description and in the video said, "Hey, by the way, if you want to get on a call, I can help you out if you have a live stream coming up.” I had a live stream coming up. I want to make sure it's the best. I'm like, I want mine to be the best. I literally reached out to him and paid him $150 right on the spot because I needed to know more right away That’s just to verify everything that you just said.

Julienne:
I love that you proved me right. Thank you, Pat.

Pat:
You are absolutely right. It is working. The crazy thing about this is, after I got this consult with this guy, who was so helpful, he was even to the point where you can use these tools, PC connect or something where he was controlling my mouse. So he just made things so easy for me. Obviously make sure you trust the person before you hand them control. But at the end he's like, "Hey Pat, by the way, I just got to let you know, I listened to your podcasts eight years ago, and it changed my life. Thanks."

And I was like, "What? Wait, hold up. I didn't know." The full circle. Right? In the end, I didn't teach him how to do it. He found out his own way, probably learned from people like you, but just the world's pretty small actually. But you got to put yourself out there, and you got to ask for the business sometimes, like you said.

To finish up, I want to ask you, what are you learning about right now? I'd love to know what's next in terms of skills or anything that's just of interest to you to get better at. I'm just curious.

Julienne:
That is a really good question. I do not write my own copy. And that is something that I've been digging into more because I've got somebody that does that, right? But I'm trying to be able to understand better. I have a general understanding of the anatomy of a sales page and that kind of thing, but how to write words that convert, and hone in. That's kind of what I'm digging into right now, I would say.

Pat:
That's a very, very good skill to have. Even if you have somebody else, just to at least when you create your first draft of something, before you hand it over, it's already that much further ahead. Or if you just need to try or want to experiment with something when you're writing emails, when you're talking to somebody, when you're on a phone call, I think all that stuff applies. So I love that high-leverage skill. That's really cool.

Julienne, this has been an incredible update. I'm so grateful for the conversation. Might I ask you to finish with one word of advice for those who are in the middle of their business and things are going, but they want to kind of really make things more optimized? It seems like you've got the systems in place. How might a person go about doing that?

Julienne:
I think really the answer has to be that test-and-pivot thing. I think in general, you are the CEO. Right? That's a difficult thing. Even if it's just you, the IRS thinks you're the CEO. You're the CEO, and you have to be okay with whatever that looks like. The system that I outlined here may not be the thing for you. Right? And you've got all kinds of things. You've got business owners with ADHD and they need a specific tech stack. Right? There's all this stuff. I think you have to give yourself permission to build it the way that you need it. Listen to everybody's opinions for best practices. But there's too much out there. You're not going to replicate what somebody has and necessarily get the same results if it just doesn't flow with you. I would say yeah, build what you need.

Pat:
But being actively conscious about trying to make those decisions and improve versus hoping something falls in your lap, right? You have to actively go out there and try to find it.

Julienne:
Yeah, I think that you need to consider best practices. You need to consider professionalism. But sometimes—so for example, on my site, I have a picture of my son. He's sitting on my shoulders, right? So it's like coffee shop, Macbook, it's that kind of photo shoot. Right? And he's on my shoulders. and I've had people fill out my hire form and say, I just wanted to let you know, I'm not hiring you because of this picture. You look unprofessional, yada, yada, and more people say, "I looked at your website. I looked at your Instagram. You reflect my values, me seeing your kid there. And that's why I called you."

And I think that you could extrapolate that to all kinds of things, any kind of system that, you know, I'm helping that client self-select that I am not their best fit. And also that you are building whatever that system is. There's no sense. I have a lot of clients where I'll say, "I love this tool,” and they're just hitting their head against the wall. So we've got to scratch that, go over to ActiveCampaign. You know what I mean? You’ve got to do something else. So some of it just is getting in there and trying.

Pat:
Thank you so much for that. And first of all, the fact that a person would let you know, reach out to you, that they don't want to work with you, but to let you know that, and it's because of that, it's kind of ridiculous. And then immediately, it's like, "Okay, good. I'm glad we're not working together if you're the type of person that does something like that." So anyway, everybody check out Julienne's website. Let me spell it for you all one more time: J-U-L-I-E-N-N-E D-E-S-J-A-R-D-I-N-S.com. She offers all kinds of services for the entrepreneur, virtual assistant services, ConvertKit support, Infusionsoft, Squarespace, social media management, all that stuff is on her page.

Julienne, this was such a pleasure. Congratulations on all the success. Keep up the great work. Looking forward to connecting with you again in the future.

Julienne:
I really appreciate all the help then and the chat now for sure.

Pat:
All right. I hope you enjoyed that catch up with Julienne. Again, you can check out the show notes at AskPat.com, and this is episode 1,180. And if you wanted to listen to her first episode, that was episode 1,027. We essentially just started the coaching version of this show after having just answering questions for a thousand episodes. And so that was early on, and that was a couple years ago, and to see where she is now and what she's doing, I’m so proud of you, Julienne. I'm so proud of you for coming on and sharing and thankful for that and grateful for that too. So appreciate you so much.

And I appreciate you, the listener, for sticking around. And make sure you hit subscribe because we've got another batch of episodes already in the can for you for next month, as we dive into more coaching calls. And if you'd like to get coached here on the show as well, just head on over to AskPat.com. All the instructions to fill out the application are there, and hope to connect with you soon. Cheers. Take care. And I look forward to seeing you soon. Peace out! Team Flynn for the win.

Thanks for listening to AskPat at askpat.com. I'm your host, Pat Flynn. Our senior producer is Sara Jane Hess, our series producer is David Grabowski, and our executive producer is Matt Gartland. Sound editing by Duncan Brown. AskPat is a production of SPI media. We'll catch you in the next session.