AskPat 584 Episode Transcript
Pat Flynn: Hey what's up everybody, Pat Flynn here and welcome to Episode 584 of AskPat. Thank you so much for joining me today. We have a great question today from Ray. Let's just get right into it. Here we go!
Ray: What's up Pat? Hey there! I'm Ray from Heart Pixels Photography in New Zealand. I've been listening to your podcast for two years. I'm even using FreshBooks, and AWeber, and Gumroad. Hey, my problem is this, Pat.
My email list is about two-hundred and growing daily but not very engaged. They don't respond to surveys either. Open rates were about thirty percent. Conversions, well approximately five percent buy my ebook or Udemy courses. Is this normal? What is a healthy open rate, click rate, and conversion rate?
Also I am teaching beginner photographers, so I can't really expect to charge a premium price for my products. Nathan Barry sells his ebook for about $80. But my ebooks are priced between $5 up to $15 because I'm not selling business-to-business. I am marketing to hobbyists who aren't going to make money from what I teach them.
In fact, my audience don't really have any pain points I can promise to heal. So without a hungry audience eager to buy from me what else can I do? I'd appreciate your wisdom. Thanks!
Pat Flynn: Hey Ray! What's up? All the way in New Zealand. That's awesome! I head to Australia every once in a while. But I haven't gone to New Zealand yet. Yet is the key word there because I do want to head there very badly. Anyways I think this is a great question because a lot of us we manage our email lists and we really have no clue what's going on. And that was me for years cuz I just had nothing to compare to.
Now you said open rates that you have are thirty percent which is actually pretty good. It kinda depends on what industry you're in. Different industries have different open rates. But thirty percent is a decent open rate. I would actually be very happy with thirty percent. And conversions five percent that's right up the normal too. So you aren't an anomaly Ray. And I think things are good.
However you had said that you have subscribers who aren't engaged. Now they are there obviously they are opening emails the are converting but they aren't engaged. And so I wouldn't say that they aren't able to engage. I think you might not have just hit the right sticking points with them yet. Or you haven't engaged them and asked them questions in a way that actually they would garner a response.
So what I would do is experiment. Every once in a while add an email that actually asks them a question. Just one question. Not a link to a survey 'cause that actually requires a lot of work. And typically with a brand new list you are gonna need some sort of incentive. Once you build trust and authority with a particular list then more people are likely to take action with whatever you ask them to do down the road.
But what I would do is somewhere in the follow-up sequence have a really really good valuable email and then the one after that just mention that valuable email and say “Hey, could you do me a quick favor? Could you answer this one question for me?” And just get people to reply.
And it might be something related to what you said that, and I don't believe this to be true Ray. You had said that you're audience doesn't have a pain point. I think every group of people who have some sort of interest have a pain point you just have to find it. So you haven't found it yet. I truly believe that.
Now that pain point might not necessarily be something that would be deemed painful. Like ouch this hurts, or this is really bothersome to me. But it is definitely something that a group of people would want, or involve some sort of need that they have.
So you might want to ask a question like related to photography; “What's the one thing you wish you could do a little bit faster?” Or, “If you had a magic wand related to your photography hobby, what's one thing that you would love to do?” You might find that maybe they all love landscape photos or would love to go to some sort of landscape area to take that kind of photography. Or they would all love to get better at self portraits. Or whatever.
You won't know until you ask that question because it's so simple and it's in one email. They're going reply to you and they're gonna build that relationship and over time those email open rates are going to increase over time. Most people see open rates die over time. But the more engagement that you have, questions like that the more people are likely to open those email down the road which is really cool. And the higher your conversion will be as well because you will have developed this relationship.
Now just because people aren't responding via email or to these surveys doesn't mean that they are still not paying attention. So I would just keep that in mind. And I love that you mentioned two hundred people. A lot of people hear that and, “Oh that's actually not very much,” but think of a room full of two hundred people. Now that's a lot. So it's all about perspective.
So treat your email list even if its quote small like it's a room full of that many people. And in a room full of that many people you would want people to know that you are there and you care for them. You'd want to have a conversation with them and make them feel like they're welcome and treated well.
And you know, if you were on stage asking questions you'd get a handful of those people to actually reply and share what they feel. Not everybody will because there's are always people in that room who are gonna be just the quiet ones. But when you open it up and you give people permission to talk back to you then it could happen.
Now related to pricing, now what I think you are doing here is smart. Because you know with the hobbyists they're likely to spend less upfront on something. Big ticket item upon the first ask is going to be really hard. But what you're essentially doing is with these ebooks and these $5 to $10 range items you're creating is what's called a tripwire in the internet marketing industry.
And a tripwire is the first purchase at a very low price that somebody makes and it's essentially one of the first yesses in a yes ladder. So I would say “Well, what comes next after the ebook.” So think about what else you can additionally offer. So you are getting conversions you said but what can those people convert to.
You might end up finding that, you know and of course it's a funnel right because more people get those lower priced items, less people get the higher priced items. But you can actually end up making a lot more money by selling just one or two larger items but your best customers are customers who have already started paying with you. So that's why this quote tripwire works.
I don't really like the term tripwire. Because it's just, I mean it's like you're tripping people or whatever. I don't like that term but it's obviously like a tripwire for like an initiation of some sort of event or whatnot. So that's what this event is, is leading up to larger purchases down the road so you known once you find out what those pain points and struggles are, based on the single engagement type email questions and those responses that you get. Plus using validation strategies to help you validate those topics.
I think really you'll find that photographers are willing to spend a lot more money with you then you might think. I know a lot of photographers who are doing massively well even though their photographer audiences are just hobbyists. Hobbyists love to spend money on equipment on sales and things like that. So you might have all sorts of affiliate opportunities too on top of already what is it that you are selling that you've created. So think about that as well.
So Ray, thank you so much for the question. We appreciate it. And, I appreciate it and I know everyone else does who is listening to it too. Thank you so much. I'm gonna send you an AskPat t-shirt, all the way to New Zealand for having your question featured here on the show. Just hit me up on Twitter @PatFlynn with a pic of it at some point when you get it just so I know it arrived safely.
And for everyone else out there. If you have a question that you'd like potentially featured here on the show. Just head on over to AskPat.com. You can ask right there on that page. And I just want to thank all of you for listening in today. I really appreciate it. No sponsors here in this episode.
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