AP 1114: My Podcast is Exploding. How Do I Get Podcast Sponsors?

AP 1114: My Podcast is Exploding. How Do I Get Sponsors? Wag Out Loud

Announcer:
Ask Pat. Askpat.com.

Pat Flynn:
What's up everybody? Pat Flynn here and welcome to episode 1,114 of AskPat 2.0. You're about to listen in on a coaching call between myself and an entrepreneur just like you. And today we're speaking with Krista who thanks to actually one of our courses, PowerUpPodcasting, started a podcast. It's kinda taking off right now, which is really amazing. And we're going to be discussing monetization opportunities. How might one begin to start generating an income from their podcast, especially here at the start. There are some nuances related to especially sponsors and advertising that we're going to be talking about as well as other monetization opportunities too. And so if you're listening to this and you'd love to start a podcast, consider how, if you do start a show, how might you use this information today to monetize? Turn it into something either on the side or potentially even—and I've seen this happen before even with some of our students—replace their full time income.

Pat:
Incredible. Just with your voice from home. Obviously there's a lot to go along with that, and I'll give you a link at the end of this so that you know where to go to get more information about this, how to start a podcast. But anyway, let's get into the coaching call. This is Krista from wagoutloud.com. Here she is. Hey Krista. Welcome to AskPat 2.0. Thanks so much for being here today.

Krista Karpowich:
Thanks for having me.

Pat:
Absolutely. Why don't you tell us, really quick, a little bit about yourself and what you do.

Krista:
Thanks to you, I took the PowerUpPodcasting course earlier this year. And after getting a certification in canine nutrition, I thought, what am I going to do next? Am I going to do one-to-one consult? And I thought no. And for some reason I decided that I could do a podcast, and took your course; and I launched my first episode on May eighth of this year. And it has been exploding. So I actually quit my full time job as of September 1.

Pat:
No way.

Krista:
I did. I am ready to turn this into a profitable, smart passive income business.

Pat:
Wow. I have so many questions. First of all, you're pulling on my heartstrings talking about one of my products to start. This is for you, not for me. But thank you. Name of the podcast and where can people find you really quick.

Pat:
Wag Out Loud. So, it focuses on canine health and nutrition and overall wellbeing. So you got to tell Gizmo about it.

Speaker 2:
I do got to tell Gizmo about it. Yeah, I'll tell him you said hello, but this is fantastic. First of all, congratulations. Second of all, let's help you out. Where could we go from here? What can I help you with?

Krista:
Thank you. My first question is around getting sponsors. And just to give you some framework of where I am now, I'm thinking I would like to offer two spots. Let me back up. My podcast episodes are all under 25 minutes, because I know the average commute time is 28 so I want to be short and sweet. With that in mind, I was thinking having a sponsor opportunity in the pre roll as well as another one in the mid roll. And I wanted to get your thoughts on a few areas. Number one, being that it's a short podcast and I don't want to be in-your-face of the listeners, do you think 15 to 20 seconds for each sponsor ad is adequate?

Pat:
I think that's going to be tough to handle. Even 30 seconds can feel a little quick and rushed. Typically, you're going to need at least 30 seconds minimum when working with advertisers, at least those who are experienced with podcast advertising if you happen to start there. But I would say 30 seconds would make sense. And I wouldn't worry about the fact that your show is "shorter." It's actually pretty average. And I think that having even up to a minute long won't hurt you. Obviously, if you had a five minute ad read and your show is 25 minutes, that's over 20 percent of your entire episode.

Pat:
So that's a little tough to handle. But I think one minute or less would suffice. And I think 30 seconds could be potentially a great starting point. You know, a 30-second one in the front, the pre-roll, and then a 30-second one in the middle. You're going to find, however, some advertisers are going to give you a script or an outline of things to say. And there's just no way to get it in in 30 seconds. So typically I sell either 30-second or 60-second spots myself. And sometimes it just goes over because that's naturally how I can say those things without it feeling rushed or not good to the listener. So that's just my thoughts on it. Thirty seconds I think would work just fine.

Krista:
Okay. And yeah, I did want to do them in my voice only. I just think that's less intrusive-

Pat:
Agree.

Krista:
Okay, cool. What about frequency? If I'm releasing one episode a week, so four a month, and with my two sponsorship opportunities, what would be the smartest thing for me to offer? If somebody says, "I want to sponsor every single episode," is that okay? Or is that not what listeners want to hear, that they want a variety?

Pat:
Yeah, first of all, if it's an advertiser that makes sense for your audience, it's not bad that they're there, just number one. They can actually enjoy your recommendation. And to hear them multiple times is not unusual either. It's very, very common, Krista, to sell a large block of episodes. And so you could do a couple of things because there is that point where people just hear the same one over and over again, or they hear you talking about it over and over again, and it just becomes oblivious. And they'll fast forward. It just isn't a good experience anymore, like you said. So what you could do is you could experiment. I have sold entire months. And if it's once a week, I think that's not going to be terrible as far as listener experience.

Pat:
I think if it was every day, and then you booked out the entire month and it's just the same ad every single day, I think you would benefit from every other day and selling another spot in between those. But I think for a whole month works great. And the cool thing that you can do with that, is you can offer some package deals. So what I would recommend is you could offer the pre-roll separate than the mid-roll, and then you can offer both of them together at a discounted price. That way they're both the same, you know? So let's just say for example, just nice round numbers. It's like $100 for the pre-roll spot, $100 for the mid-roll spot, but maybe it's $175 if you get both in the same episode. So let's say that you can even potentially offer, "Okay, that's per one episode. But if you book four episodes, if you book the entire month, we'll give you an additional discount on the overall price."

Pat:
And you can just do the math from there. We don't have to do it now, but typically you can offer a better deal for staying on it longer. And that way you just get more money up front and during that period from one company, versus the work it might take to find other sponsors and put them in there in between.

Krista:
Right. And what would you suggest as far as how far out should I go with one sponsor? Because, of course, as my listenership grows and my downloads grow, I'm going to increase my pricing. So would you say have an agreement with one sponsor maybe for six months and then reevaluate?

Pat:
Six months is quite long, actually. Three months would be, I think, a good starting point. However, if you do have the opportunity to sell longer, I wouldn't not consider that. But I would definitely include a price increase, knowing that your podcast is increasing in listenership as well. And I think if you show them the data especially, they'll understand, okay, for the first three months we're going to do it at this price. For the next three months, we're going to do it at this price, for example. Just guesstimating based on averages over time from the show. And so that's how I would approach it if you were to sell a longer one. But I would recommend three months or less and then renegotiating. Because I think what could happen is, especially if you are doing a great job of marketing and getting out there and your show is growing, you could make more money by going, "Okay. We're almost at the end of our three months or two months together, whatever it is, and here are the numbers now.

Pat:
Look how much we've grown. And for any new sponsors who come on board, I'm going to be charging this rate. Wow, it's almost double than what we charged you. But since you are already a sponsor, I'm only going to mark up the price this much." That way you have a little anchor price for what you would normally sell, that new set of months for another person. I always do that. Hey, since you're here already and we have this relationship, how about we keep this going, I'm not going to charge you as much as if I were to charge somebody brand new.

Krista:
That makes sense. Cool. Okay. Since I'm going after first time sponsors, are there any additional perks that I should offer besides the actual ads, if you will in the show? And then of course I will include their URL and a thank you again in the show notes. And then at the end of the episode, I'll do a quick shout out again. Thanks again to our sponsors, whoever they are, for bringing you today's episode. Is there anything else that I should do for these guys? Go as far as putting a banner on the website, or of course if they're already an affiliate they will be on my website as a product partner. But I didn't know if there's anything else just to sweeten the deal.

Pat:
You had mentioned a post roll. Post roll is at the end of your show. You didn't mention that you were going to do that. That's another thing that you could add on as incentive or a bonus or just tack on an additional price if they want the post roll as well. So I wouldn't just add that in there free of charge, without talking about it or incorporating it in some way. So I just wanted to point that out, because that is an additional asset. The end of your show, typically you would charge less than a pre-roll and mid-roll because not everybody is making it to the end. But at the same time, those are your most engaged listeners. And for a long time on SPI, I've done sponsorships only in the back end, on the post-roll side.

Pat:
And those converted very well, because those are the highest targeted people who are going to stick with me the whole time and respect my recommendations and whatnot. So that's number one. Definitely space on your show notes. I typically include that just as that's pretty standard.

Krista:
That's a given.

Pat:
Hey, we'll put a bullet point or a link to the offer in the show notes. But you can add anything else on top of it, and you can charge more for it too. Or you can increase the value of what you are charging for. So you can include space on your website for a certain period of time. So for example, you could say, "hey, for the duration of your sponsor period, for an additional X number of dollars per month or whatever, we would also love to include a banner on the sidebar of the website that shows up. Here's our website traffic."

Pat:
Here's other data to support that. And you could get people to go, yeah, let's add that on. Because a lot of these companies have budgets that they want to spend, and they just want to be everywhere in your brand at that point. But that gets into, and I won't get into the details, but where on your website matters as well. If it's just in the footer, it's going to cost less than in the sidebar, which is going to cost less than in the homepage at the top. That's on every page. So there's a spectrum there as well.

Pat:
I know some companies who get to the point, especially when podcasting becomes their main gig, they create what's called a media kit. And this is eventually what I'd recommend you have, Krista, if you don't already. That is a PDF file, if you will, that you can send to a potential sponsor to go over all the different options and all the different spots.

Pat:
And essentially, you're essentially selling them what you have to offer and then making a deal with them. So the website is an asset that you can include. Your social media accounts are assets that you can include as well. For every month of sponsorship we'll include, or for an additional price we'll include two posts a week mentioning and thanking you and pointing people back to the show, naming you and tagging your Instagram or what have you, or Twitter or Facebook or whatever. Again, more assets. Email list is a big one. I think that's very under utilized in the podcast sponsorship space. But if you can also say, "Hey, and then once when this episode goes out, we're going to send an email to 5,000 people who own dogs, and we're going to tell them in the email and link to your website, add $2,000 to the package from there."

Pat:
So you could get pretty, pretty crazy. I would also say, especially when you're just starting out, maybe keep it more simple for you, just to manage. And then you can start to add things on later. But just wanted to give you a full spectrum of all those sorts of things. And of course there's YouTube, and there's a book that you might write, or sponsoring a lead magnet that you might have. You could just be as creative as you want with this.

Krista:
Sure. That's all great advice. Thank you.

Pat:
You're welcome.

Krista:
So if I'm starting pricing out of the gate, I'm thinking $200 for a pre-roll slot. And then in my mind I thought maybe $250 for the mid roll because mid roll is better placement, is that right?

Pat:
Typically mid roll costs more because it is a huge thing to, in the middle of a person's listing session when they're highly engaged and already committed to that episode, the phone is in their pocket, they're on that drive, that's a big prime real estate is the middle. So I think $200 versus $250 works. However, I do want to ask you, where do those numbers come from?

Krista:
As you and I both know, analytics are fuzzy. But I know that my website is onSquarespace so that is where I'm getting my RSS analytics. Plus I can see on Podtrac how many downloads I'm getting. So I'm averaging 4,000 RSS subscribers a month. And I can believe that with those analytics, it looks like a lot of my audience is listening directly from the website. They're just downloading, I don't know if they're not tech savvy to subscribe, but I just launched my brand new website today actually. And part of that is a huge button on how to listen to a podcast and I'm urging them to subscribe. So that's where I'm getting my numbers from and I am in a very niche market. I'm the only one covering canine health and nutrition on a podcast. So all the experts and affiliate relationships that I've made, I feel very confident that my market is their market, and they're going to want to get in front of these listeners.

Pat:
Yes, I would agree with that. I'm just a little bit more curious about the numbers. I don't know much about Squarespace numbers. Overall, how many downloads per month, or per episode, excuse me, are you guessing that you might have?

Krista:
Again, if I go to Podtrac, I'm showing only 60 but when I look at the Squarespace analytics, I can see how many people are downloading directly from the website.

Pat:
Okay. Yeah, I would assume that if people are downloading from the website, we can just perhaps say 4,000 to start. And we can base our numbers off of that. I would say that there are industry standards. However, depending on what else you might add in, the strength of your audience and also the previous relationships that you might have with these companies, you can definitely move that number around for sure. So typically what you're going to see is anywhere between $25 to $50 CPM. And what that means is cost per thousand downloads. So if every episode, for example, is getting downloaded 4,000 times, you can multiply four by let's say 50, we'll go on the high end since you're offering a lot. And that's $200, so you're spot on, actually, with that. And then of course you can include, hey, if you're going to do the full episode, pre-roll and mid roll, maybe that's 400 per episode.

Pat:
And then if they get a whole month you could even go, okay, if it's 400 per episode times four episodes, that's 1600. You know what? If you get the entire month, we'll do it for 1500. You see what I did there? Just a little bit of a deal if you stick around longer. And that way you're not having to always constantly fill in those holes every single month, or every single week if you were to get a unique advertiser every week. Some advertisers I will tell you, especially because you're just starting out with them, they might go, okay, this sounds interesting, Krista. But we just want to run it for one week to see how it's like and see how it responds. That's really up to you whether or not you want to-

Krista:
Test drive.

Pat:
Test drive that or not. And in my experience, that's worth doing because sometimes, and I always go, okay. If I get a sponsor on an episode, I'm going to go, okay, how can I make this really, really good for them on this trial so that they'll stick around. So I might give them a little bit more love than I would to show them that, wow, this is a really great relationship, and then work out a second deal after that. But again, it's up to you.

Krista:
Absolutely. And how are most sponsors billed? Number one, do I ask for check and/or credit card? Should I open a Square Up account and just invoice them?

Pat:
In invoices, 99 percent of the time that's how it's going to go. So they'll go, okay, yes that, that works. Send us an invoice. And you'll just go from there. And just make sure it's very clear in the invoice what the deliverables are, and by when. And most will just pay that upfront. I think there are cases where they might pay half and then pay the rest after. Again, it's on a case-by-case basis usually. And then what they'll owe you or what you would want to ask for is the script or outline. And since you'll be reading them yourself, I would definitely make sure that in some way, shape or form before and/or during the negotiation process, you let them know that I'm going to read these myself. I'm going to make them sound very organic because that's what my audience responds to.

Pat:
But any talking points that you want me to make sure I cover, send them my way so I can make sure I save them in my own voice. You will have some companies go, okay, that's great. Here's a list of all the things. You don't have to read all of them. But here, this bolded thing at the bottom, that's what you have to read word for word. And typically I will do that, because they want that. And usually it's the call to action with go to whatever.com slash krista again, one more time, blah blah blah slash krista or Wag Out Loud, whatever it might be. So they'll give you those directions.

Krista:
Perfect.

Pat:
Yeah, it sounds like a great business opportunity. Any other questions related to podcast sponsorships?

Krista:
Not with sponsorships, no.

Pat:
What other questions might you have while we finish up here?

Krista:
Maybe I'm being too hard on myself, but I don't see myself as the expert. I have guest experts on the show. And I feel like I'm sharing great content and making awesome connections in the industry. But to your point about building an email list, what would be a good freebie in order for me to start collecting email addresses? I'm already going to do a monthly giveaway of products from all of my partners. So they've all agreed once a month you can give this huge basket of dog treats or whatever it is. So that is one thing I've thought of. Is there any other... Since I haven't written a book.

Pat:
Yeah. You don't need to write a book, you don't need to create a free course. Those are often overwhelming to some people sometimes. So you want to make something quick and easy, if anything. First of all giveaways are a great idea. I think having access to companies who are going to offer those kinds of things for you is huge. So definitely lead into those a month, and I think that would be a big draw for people. But in addition to that, in between those giveaways, I think that something light, something easy but very impactful. If I were working with you, what would be something that you could teach me in five to ten minutes that would be game changing for me, and obviously get me to be more involved with you, and want to open every email and just buy your products and listen to every single podcast episode? What might be one thing that you could teach me within five to ten minutes related to my dog that would make that happen?

Krista:
I guess my biggest thing is that I am not a proponent of kibble, of processed food, because it's not food. So anybody feeding a whole or fresh diet to their dog, which is easier than most people think. Maybe they think, oh wow, that means I've got to feed a raw diet, and that's so expensive, and I have five big dogs and I just can't afford that. I encourage people to think outside the box and if you feel like you have to feed kibble, even adding fresh food, veggies or another protein source like cage-free scrambled eggs. Because they were not meant to eat processed foods where nutrients are put back in synthetically because they were taken out in the high heat process.

Pat:
That's great. I think if you were to create a... So again, the big win for me would be just quick education on something, and maybe one or two quick things I could now feed my dog that I didn't know I could add. That actually doesn't take that much time, that isn't very expensive. So perhaps it's a lead magnet that you offer on your podcast, on your website, a one or two page PDF file that goes, "here are two kinds of food that you can feed your dog today that will help them become healthier and happier, that won't break your bank and is time sensitive too." The copy isn't very good. But you could just show me two things, and I could go to the store today and buy them and prepare them. Or maybe it's just like one recipe.

Pat:
"Hey guys, thanks for listening to the show. I want to give you a free gift. If you come to this website wagoutloud.com slash free-gift, I have a free recipe for you. Something that you could prepare for your dog today or the next time you go to the grocery store. Just pick up these two ingredients, and I promise you your dog's going to love it. And the cool thing is that this is all natural and easy to prepare." And something that at the end of the podcast just I can go, oh, I can get that for free right now and I can do it? Cool. And I think something easy like that would be a really big draw. And then you just connect that to a landing page to your email and you're going to get some emails coming in.

Krista:
Cool, I never thought of that. Thank you.

Pat:
Yeah, something easy. That's all you need.

Krista:
I like easy.

Pat:
So start there and then you can add... Yeah, easy is great. And then you can add more over time. But anyway, thank you for coming on in and for sharing this. I think this can be really helpful. I know I've had a lot of people ask questions about podcast sponsorships as well, especially now that more and more people are starting podcasts. So wonderful job, and just keep up the great work, and good luck to you. And congrats on going full time with it.

Krista:
Thank you so much Pat. I'm a super fan.

Pat:
I appreciate you. Thank you, Krista. So one more time, where can people go to listen to you?

Krista:
Check it out, wagoutloud.com.

Pat:
Love it. Thank you so much.

Krista:
Thanks Pat.

Pat:
All right. I hope you enjoy that show and that episode with Krista from Wag Out Loud.

Pat:
Just congratulations to you Krista, for all the amazing work that you're doing and all that's coming your way. And just really appreciate you coming on and sharing what's going on so we can help you out and also help everybody else out too. So thank you for that.

Pat:
Really stoked on the idea of you potentially starting a podcast, and if you haven't started one yet, I highly recommend you check out our podcast cheat sheet. This is going to help you get started. It's the first thing in the lineup of things that we could do to offer to help you. And it just gives you an idea from a top level view as well as first steps on how you might get started with a show of your own. And to give you the best instructions to move forward so that you don't get confused along the way.

Pat:
So to check out the cheat sheet, all you have to do is go to smartpassiveincome.com/podcastcheatsheet, all one word. Smartpassiveincome.com/podcastcheatsheet. And that'll take you to that, and you can download it and start using it and thinking about your show and what the content might be about right away. And I hope to see you up on Apple podcasts with me at one point in the future. Now if you are listening to this and you're like, Pat, I would love to get coached by you, just like you coached Krista today. That can happen, potentially. You'd have to apply. And you can apply for free if you go to askpat.com, hit the button there, just answer some of the questions that we have during the process and I might reach out to you and we can make it happen and I can help you out.

Pat:
We're also going to help other people out too. So I can't pick everybody, but I won't pick you unless you try. Go to askpat.com to do that. You can also see all the other episodes in the archive there too. And if you haven't hit subscribe to the show yet, make sure you do that on your favorite podcast app right now so you can get these episodes just downloaded instantly when they come every single week and when they just become available. So make sure you do that. And as always, just keep up the great work. Thank you so much for the love and support. I love you too. And as always, Team Flynn for the win. Peace.