AP 1210: I’m an Introvert. How Can I Get Better at Selling My Online Course?

AP 1210: I’m an Introvert. How Can I Get Better at Selling My Online Course?

Pat Flynn: What's up, everybody? Pat Flynn here, and welcome to episode 1,210 of AskPat 2.0. You're about to listen to a coaching call between myself and an entrepreneur just like you. And in this case, specifically, an introverted entrepreneur, self-proclaimed introverted entrepreneur, Mark Wilson, who has a company at Sales for Introverts. In fact, yes, he does help introverts at SalesForIntroverts.com.

Pat Flynn: I think it's an awesome niche. I mean, introverts sales specifically are something that they struggle with. I know this personally, and to niche down to that, I mean, sales is hard, and there's a specific language that introverts use when it comes to sales and how difficult it is. And a lot of the mindset struggles that we have that we have to overcome. And Mark helps people through that, which is so awesome. Again, SalesForIntroverts.com.

Pat Flynn: And today, specifically, we're speaking about how to get more course sales. And you'll see me very quickly start to cut out a lot of things that he is doing or thinking of doing, in order to focus more on the things that are working. And that is a big theme here today. And we also talk about some other, in fact, genius ideas that Mark brought forward that I unpack a little bit more, as far as B2B might be concerned with relation to this niche. So, I'm really excited for you to listen to it. Here he is. Mark Wilson.

Pat Flynn: Mark, welcome to AskPat 2.0. Thanks so much for being here today.

Mark Wilson: Thanks, Pat. Appreciate you having me.

Pat Flynn: Why don't you take a minute to introduce yourself to all of us who are listening?

Mark Wilson: My name is Mark Wilson, and I run SalesForIntroverts.com. It's a website and online presence where I have my online course where I help salespeople, who are introverted, become more comfortable, confident salespeople who earn more money.

Pat Flynn: That's so good, because I'm an introvert myself, and I know that sales can be very difficult at times. How do you help introverts with that? What is your process?

Mark Wilson: Like I mentioned, it is an online course with modules. Just to break down some lot of beliefs that introverts have about sales in general. You mentioned you were an introvert, so you probably have some, because you're used to being inside your shell inside your own little world. But when you're in sales and in business, you have to put yourself out there a little bit, especially if you want to develop a territory and develop a revenue stream and things like that.

Mark Wilson: So, I'm 100% introverted. Some people are fall along a spectrum, which you may as well. I'm all the way on the introverted side, so. I've been doing sales for over a decade now, so I had to figure out a way to do it. Just being involved in that process and not going home every day being miserable or wanting to quit my job, I wanted to succeed. And so, that's where I've been and where I came from. I can identify other introverts from a mile away like me, and I found some success finally, so I just wanted to try to help spread the word and say, "Hey, if you're introverted, you can do it, and here's how."

Pat Flynn: I think that's so important, and thank you for stepping up to do that. Where can people go and find your brand in case they are introverted and want more help from you?

Mark Wilson: Sure. It's at SalesForIntroverts.com.

Pat Flynn: All right, easy enough. It reminds me of a story that was one of my first moments where I've had to step out of my comfort and sell, and I didn't do very well. And this was in high school. I was looking for extra money during the summer, and there was an ad in the newspaper. And the ad was for a company called Greenpeace, which many people have probably heard of before.

Pat Flynn: And the job or the role was, I had to stand on street corners and get people who were just walking by to pay money to support these causes that we were stepping up for. And I did that for two weeks and we had quotas and everything. And being a person who was introverted, I sold one and it was to somebody who I had already known, and then I got fired. Or, I got let go.

Pat Flynn: That was hard. It was hard. In your years of to teach people this and you yourself being an introvert before I ask you about the business and how I can help you, I'm just really curious, what would be the number one tip that you might have for somebody who's listening to this and they're like, "I'm an introvert and I have a hard time putting myself out there." What's one little thing they can do to maybe at least make one step forward?

Mark Wilson: Well, whether you're selling on a street corner talking to a bunch of strangers or you're in some super complex industry where each sale is a million dollars, no matter what, whoever's on the other side of the phone or the email or across the table from you in person, it's just to know that, everybody, we're all just people. Okay? And it's okay to be nervous and whatnot at the beginning, but you're just talking to another human being, and they're not out to get you, and they might actually be interested in what you have to say. That's my number one tip is to not stress out too much. You're just talking to another human being. And then of course, there's all kinds of different stuff behind that, but that's where you start.

Pat Flynn: Love it. Thank you, Mark. Okay, so what's going on in the business? Where are you at and how can I best serve you?

Mark Wilson: So I'm just starting out, essentially. The course is available for purchase now. I have a platform that I'm working on developing. In a nutshell, here's where I'm at. I've got this great story. My origin story, where I come from growing up as an introvert. I like to share that as a kid, I was too afraid to ask for a refill from a waiter at a restaurant. I had to nudge my sister and make her go get it for me. It was that bad. Relatable? Yeah.

Mark Wilson: But I've since gone to, I manage a multimillion dollar sales territory now. I've managed a 20X what I did previous in my sales job, my day to day sales job now. I've got that and I've got that story. So I started sharing that and I bundled all up into a course, and all my pre-market research was really receptive to my idea.

Mark Wilson: Now I'm out there in the big, bad world, the internet, I'm not a public figure. I don't have a huge platform. I don't have much traction or any kind of organic traffic, per se. I do have a content publishing strategy that involves YouTube, a podcast, a blog. And I'm working on some testimonials to get those on my website, but everything is just really slow going.

Mark Wilson: So, I just need some gas in the tank. And it's tough because I'm already mid-career, I'm a dad, I've got two young kids, another one on the way. I've got a successful day job. It's just hard to find what I need to do next, essentially. That's my problem.

Pat Flynn: Well, definitely not an uncommon problem for sure. So, I hope that this provides value to those who are listening as well. But I'd love to ask you a few questions. You had said that you might need more gas in the tank, but you are a parent and you are also working this other job. I mean, it might not necessarily be you need more gas in the tank. It just might mean that we have to drive to the right destinations first, instead of driving all the way around.

Pat Flynn: And you had mentioned a podcast, YouTube channel, and a blog. And to do all three of those things all at once, you're going to use a lot of gas and maybe not get necessarily where you want to go. So, I want to learn more about your content strategy, and if you were to only pick one of those, which one would it be, and do you think would be most useful for your target audience?

Mark Wilson: I would say that my favorite one, which happens to be the most successful so far, it's not huge success, but it is getting some organic traffic, is the podcast. I like producing it. It's easier than videos for me. But my flow is, everything all flows together. When I was producing YouTube videos, I'd make a YouTube video and then I turn it into a podcast by expounding on a two minute YouTube video. And then I would take the transcript and post it as a blog. So, some of that stuff's set up. Some of it's automated, but it is work. I mean, it is a lot of work to do all of them, for sure.

Pat Flynn: It is. And it sounds great on paper, right? It just makes sense. I mean, even from taking a video and ripping out the audio and putting it into a podcast and then taking that podcast transcript and turning into a blog post, yes, you have all those pieces, but at the same time, every little bit of energy matters at this point. And so, if you were to rearrange that energy and maybe say no to some things, but say yes to more things that are working, it sounds like putting a little bit more time and effort into the podcast would be the right way to go.

Pat Flynn: And when I think about it, as far as introvert and how they potentially prefer to consume content and how they might imagine themselves being on a platform, a podcast represents that quite well, because you don't have to be on video and you can listen without other people watching over you, and like, "What video are you watching right now?" People can just have you in their earbud. And I think that would definitely relate to a person who is on their own and working and trying to do well with sales, but don't necessarily want to announce that or show that off to the world.

Pat Flynn: So, I am in the camp of, what if you just went all in with podcasting? And yeah, the YouTube videos, they're there and there might be an opportunity to create some where it might make sense, and yes, you could potentially post on the blog too. But the truth is, if you put yourself into all those places, none of those places are having all of you.

Pat Flynn: And so, by going all in on podcasting, that could mean a number of things with that additional time, potentially in addition to creating episodes that relate to these specific problems and pains and struggles.

Pat Flynn: I think that your story, I mean, even in just the first few minutes that we've been listening here, I've made a connection with you because of the story you've told, and you could bring that story into other people's podcasts as well. There are a lot of podcasts that are hosted by introverts, for sure. There's a lot of podcast who host audiences that have loads of introverts that could benefit from your story.

Pat Flynn: I would imagine that if there was a combination of you publishing your podcast and getting onto other podcasts and the call to action being not, "Oh, you can find me on YouTube, or you can find me on my blog, or you can find me on my podcast." It's like, "Just listen to my podcast." It's clear, it's simple, and all things pointed to there. I think you could really make a connection and bring some people your way that way.

Pat Flynn: Okay, cool. How does that feel to you? Does that feel like weight lift off your shoulders, or are you feeling what some people feel, which is, "Oh, but I have the YouTube channel and it's there, I feel like I should be using it." Where are you at with that?

Mark Wilson: I'm good with that, actually. YouTube, yes, there are a lot of business related channels on YouTube. Literally starting from nothing is what I'm doing right now. And so, are people really looking for sales tips like what I'm trying to offer on YouTube? I'm not quite sure. I think like you said, it lends itself more to the podcast for format rather than a two minute video from me versus a two minute video from Tony Robbins or somebody like that.

Pat Flynn: I can counter that for you. People would much rather learn from you than Tony Robbins in many respects, right? I know I prefer to learn from people who are just like me who are going through it with me kind of thing, versus somebody who's a PhD level or huge influencer in that space. So, I don't think that's a reason to back away from YouTube. And like I said, there could be an opportunity for you to every once in a while, pop in a video, if you have something to say and you just want to put it there for search engine purposes.

Pat Flynn: But as far as, "I consistently show up here and this is where you need to come and listen to me so I can consistently help you and consistently provide add value to you," I feel like the podcast would be the way to go. And if you can tell a great story, the podcast is definitely the platform to do it on.

Mark Wilson: Sure. Okay.

Pat Flynn: That's the first thing that came to mind and that is nice because it alleviates a lot of the additional work, the superfluous work that, yes, again, that you could do, but potentially shouldn't do.

Pat Flynn: When it comes to being a guest on other of podcasts, have you ever given that a thought or have you ever been a guest on another show? Besides this one today, obviously.

Mark Wilson: Yes, I have. I've done once and I also PodMatch. You ever heard of PodMatch?

Pat Flynn: Yeah.

Mark Wilson: I've started to dabble in that and I've got a short list of some people I'm going to reach out to, I think, but I do want to do that, plan to do that.

Pat Flynn: Nice. How might you ensure that you do that? What would be a way for you to maybe schedule that out, and at what rate do you think would make sense for you?

Mark Wilson: I would probably try to shoot for maybe once a week, or once every other week to try to get out. I'm not sure. Should I try to go for 10 to start or five to start? What do you think is reasonable?

Pat Flynn: Yeah, it's a good question. I think, again, it depends on the amount of time you have and what you're working with now. And it sounds like you already have some potential connections with others or at least some understanding of where else you might be able to put yourself out there.

Pat Flynn: In general, I usually recommend try to get at least once a month. Let's start simple, let's start easy, let's start with one a month for the next year. And let's see if we can make that happen. Obviously, if you can go, if you could double that one every other week, then even better.

Pat Flynn: Giving yourself a little bit of room to do research and find the right people and build a relationship, I think that's, because if you try to go weekly, oftentimes we get to the point where we're just sending spaghetti on the wall emails and hopefully some of them stick, versus, "Okay, next month I want to attempt to try to get on..." "I see these three different podcasts, let me build relationships with them this month and see what I can do to provide value to them and see if we can connect in some way."

Pat Flynn: And then an ask doesn't even feel like an ask anymore, it's just a natural conclusion to the value that's been exchanged. And again, it's slow to start, but a more wise approach in my opinion.

Mark Wilson: Sure. Okay.

Pat Flynn: So there's that. Now, tell me about the online course and how it relates to your podcast. How are you bringing that to light, how are you potentially mentioning it, if at all?

Mark Wilson: Yeah. The podcast is meant to be a lead magnet to get people into my funnel, more or less. To funnel them towards the website, and of course, to get involved in that way. I mention it a lot that that's why I do what I do, and the podcast is just free for all. Anybody who's interested to get them involved in my orbit.

Pat Flynn: Nice. Okay. So I'm listening to your podcast, Mark, and you tell me something to do on that while I'm listening. What are you telling me to do exactly? What's the call to action?

Mark Wilson: I guess I'm telling you to go... You know what actually, shoot, I'm not actually not very good at that. I have what's called an introvert kickstart.

Pat Flynn: Okay. Got that.

Mark Wilson: And that's how you get started. It's free. It's like a PLF launch. You get four different emails every day with the video and some action items for you to do. And I haven't been doing a good job of promoting that on the podcast. I do tell people to go to the website.

Pat Flynn: It sounds like a great solution. I mean, now that we're focusing more on the podcast right, now we know, okay, on the podcast, let's focus on getting those listeners to go and, and do something, right? Did you say four emails a day, or an email a day for four days?

Mark Wilson: Email a day for four days. Sorry.

Pat Flynn: Okay, okay, okay. I was like, "Four emails a day? I don't know if people would want that." Unless it's really good, and then, "Give me more." But that's something to practice, right? And you can practice that on your own in whatever fashion you might like and talk about it in different ways. I think the kit can be great. You can focus on specific parts of the kit, like, "Hey, on day two, we talk about this. Let's let's unpack that a little bit and talk about it, and let me tell you story about that."

Pat Flynn: And then at the end, "Okay, by the way, if you want to get this kit, go here." And the go here is really important, right? That very specific, clear call to action to go to a website. And remember, people who are listening to podcasts are likely on the go in some way, right? And so, a very easy URL is going to be preferable. I don't hear this too often, but sometimes I'll listen to a show and they're like, "Go to this website.com/this-this-this." And it's just like, "Just make it easy," right?

Pat Flynn: You could even, for the kit, you could even buy another domain name that just redirects right to that kit if it's on your website, for example. I remember the first podcast I ever really got involved with was called Internet Business Mastery, and they had FreeAudioGift.com. That was their way to collect listeners. I still remember that 13 years later, FreeAudioGift.com. And then it just redirected to page with a very long URL on their website to go and get that free audio gift. In your case, it would be the kit.

Pat Flynn: And then it's at that point that you to pay attention to, "Okay, well, is the podcast bringing people over?" And you can see the numbers. It's either working or it's not. Great. We can optimize that, right? If you have social channels, you're mentioning that as well and linking to it at the same time. And then it's like, "Okay, well, there are 100 visitors coming every week, and it seems we're only getting five emails every week. How might we double the conversion? What can we do?"

Pat Flynn: So, what's nice about the way that I teach business is, let's just narrow the focus so that we can find where the root of the problems are, if you will, or what needs to be optimized. Because if you're getting low conversion rates, it's like, "Okay, well let me focus on what makes the great landing page this week. And let me try to see if by the end of the week, I can make this landing page I have here for the kit really, really good."

Pat Flynn: And then people come in and they get fed a series of emails I'm imagining from you. You got the four and then you get maybe some others after that promote the kit, or your course, I mean. In which case, again, we're looking at numbers. Are people even opening these emails? If not, then doesn't matter what's inside, let's focus on subject lines. What would be good subject lines to include now?

Pat Flynn: So we get that open, because that's the next step. That's the next blocker or the next stoppage point. And then you can just keep doing that all along the way until you're getting sales coming in and then it's about, "Okay, well let's scale it up. Let's go on two podcasts per month at this point. Let's double the conversion rates there. Let's add a new lead magnet to attract the people who weren't interested in that kit." And you can just take that sequential approach as you go. It's going to be slower starts, but it's something that when you get it right, you could scale it up much faster. I hope that's making sense and not too overwhelming.

Mark Wilson: No, no, no, no. I follow you. I follow you.

Pat Flynn: Good. Where else might you need some help, or what is maybe a struggle or something that you just need some advice on?

Mark Wilson: So, this is something that's been lingering with me. So, when I look at specific sales trainings for different industries, for example, not just SalesGuy.com, you want to be a pro sales guy. You want to be an accountant and know how to do sales or something like that. When I go to their websites, there's all kinds of different agencies out there, but nobody's really offering what I'm offering.

Mark Wilson: So, I'm wondering, what would your opinion be if I pitched my course to those companies to sell as an affiliate-type relationship, while still doing all of my stuff and on my podcast and my organic generation, but also trying to partner with companies like that? I'll just leave it there, and what do you think?

Pat Flynn: So, this is a B2B relationship, right? Business to business relationship situation.

Mark Wilson: Yeah.

Pat Flynn: I think it's a great idea. It's one that's worth exploring, definitely. And the way that I would approach it would be to, instead of just going, "Hey, company, you don't know me, but here is a link to a course that I think would be helpful for you." In which case, they don't have a relationship with you yet. Your course could be anything, how is it attractive to them at that point? Versus, you might be able to offer a one hour workshop for all of their employees, and anybody who is an introvert inside of that company can show up for that hour. Similar to a lunch and learn, right? Have you been a part of those where you get treated for a lunch, but the person's teaching and then at the end mentions something that they have to offer?

Pat Flynn: If I was in that position, I would try to set up a lunch and learn. I would, in fact, call it that actually. A Lunch and Learn Sales for Introverts, by Mark. And then if nobody shows up then, okay, now we know that people aren't interested in this. They're not even interested in it for free, so what would get them to pay for it?

Pat Flynn: But at the same time, when people do show up, that shows something to the company, like, "Wow, okay, we got a lot more introverts than we thought. This could be actually really helpful for us if we can nail down how to make sales improve for these people specifically. How are we going to do that? Well, why don't we just bring Mark who helped during that hour and everybody's been talking about it, and let's partner with him on his course?"

Pat Flynn: And then what you can do from that point is have those conversations and then strike a deal. And the deal could be different than an affiliate relationship. I mean, it could be that, but in all likelihood it would be the company that would purchase, not the individual people that would purchase right, for that kind of situation.

Pat Flynn: So in that regard, you can offer a licensing price or licensing deal where if they have employees between the numbers of two and 20, well then anybody who is an employee in your company can get access to the course. Here is your course universal username or what have you, or we'll sign everybody up individually. However you want to manage that administratively. But that'll cost 20 times the price of your course, and these companies have budgets for this stuff.

Pat Flynn: In fact, they often need to use the money in their budgets or else it goes away sometimes for continued education.

Mark Wilson: ... What I'm talking about.

Pat Flynn: You know what I'm saying? This could be a really cool angle. And if you do this for one company to start with, just focus on one and see if you can get that lunch and learn first, and if you can get them clear results, I mean, I would just use those results and sell it into the next company. "Hey, we helped X company in this industry. You're likely leaving..." Then your job is to just sell them on that and use all the tactics you know as an introverted salesman to do that. "Oh, you're probably leaving millions of dollars on the table by having your more introverted salespeople here not do what they should be doing when making sales and pitches for your product. So, I'd love to help you out. We've already worked with this other company. We offer a license deal for any of number of people in your company to come in."

Pat Flynn: You could offer whether it's access to the course for a certain price, if you had the time, I would say, "Hey, I'd love to do a six week program. Once a week, I'll come in. Same time, during lunch, once a week, for $40,000." Just some exorbitant amount of money. And they might say yes, actually, right? They might say yes. Or at least it says, "Well, that's a little above our budget, but we would love to get access to your course which seems super valuable now, especially at what seems like it's a steep discount," because your consultation price anchors the value in your online course, right?

Pat Flynn: "Hey, you could hire me for this much, or you can still get the same info, I just won't be there to help you along the way for this much." And so, you could actually charge a lot more for that in that regard. So, there's a lot of ways to paint this canvas, I think, Mark. It's really exciting.

Mark Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Cool. So, B2B is what I wanted to do originally. I'm not looking to be the next Tony Robbins out there to lead a lot of B2C type transactions into my website. I'd rather do it B2B. Exactly for those reasons like you just said, to where you can get more of a bulk audience and those case studies and testimonials to really propel you. And then what I meant by affiliate was, if I went to some random... Well not random, but if I targeted another sales academy, like SalesAcademy.com or whatever, I don't know if that's even a website or not...

Pat Flynn: Sure. Another course or something, right?

Mark Wilson: Yes, that has their own curriculum.

Pat Flynn: Gotcha.

Mark Wilson: And then I affiliated with them if they were interested, because I already have one outfit that's interested in doing that. I don't know really how to navigate that relationship. What do you expect as far as percentage split? Do they just send them to my website, or do I give them my material and let them put it on theirs? I'm just not sure. What do you think?

Pat Flynn: Yeah. There's multiple ways to do it. You can do it in either of those ways. The easiest would be to give them an affiliate link for your course. You come up with some deal, 50/50 or 30/70, however you want to do it. It really varies, right? And you have to consider, "Okay, if this is 50/50, how much does the partner get? Are they going to be incentivized to promote it at that payout or not?"

Pat Flynn: So, there's a lot of those questions that you can think about on your own. But giving them an affiliate link and just say, "Hey, insert this into your funnels and insert this into your emails, or if you want to do a promotion together and use your link, I can show up and do a training for your audience," but then they can use your link to go through. Or it could just be literally a link on their website that gets added, right? However much incentivized they are to push it out for you.

Pat Flynn: And then what happens is people click on that link and they're essentially your customer at that point and you just pay out commissions after a certain period of time to the partner. That's the easiest way to do it, and that's more traditional affiliate marketing, right?

Pat Flynn: But I have seen more partnerships where, essentially, they're selling into their course and they want to insert your course as an additional lesson or a bonus or something. And again, the deal terms are often very different between everybody. It could be for a large flat fee if they know this is going to provide a lot of value, and it just might be a one year or two year contract to have all this stuff in there for how long for a set price and that's it.

Pat Flynn: Or it could be a thing where it gets really granular and, "Hey, we'll pay you out for every time somebody completes your specific module. That's how we know that people are using it and we'll pay you out for that." I mean, that's too far in my opinion, but that is something that I've seen as well.

Pat Flynn: In most cases, it's going to be something where if indeed it is a large section of the course, they will pay you a share of the price for having your content inside of their course. You got to make sure that you have things written down, contracts and whatnot, to make sure, well, what if they don't want your course in there anymore? What if you want to take your course out? Are you allowed to do that? When are the payouts going to be? All that stuff. What if a person refunds, how does that work?

Pat Flynn: So, it can provide a lot of potential, but it's also a lot of headache as well versus the affiliate stuff, which is a lot easier. So, maybe it's the affiliate situation to start based on that.

Mark Wilson: I would love to handle all the business myself, but I know that with other people that have their own traffic and their own platforms to me, it seems like a great place to start. I mean, just to get some revenue rolling. I was just curious about the affiliate percentage split, because somebody told me that 50/50 was extremely generous to use somebody else's customers and traffic. I didn't know what your opinion was of that. Is 50/50 the best deal in the world?

Pat Flynn: I mean, that's typical. I mean, I have seen 75% commission. I've seen even 100% commission. And it's like, "Why would a person give 100% of their commissions or 100% of the price point to their affiliates?" Because well, they sell them a $2,000 backend product later that they know they're going to get more money from, right?

Pat Flynn: So again, there's a lot of what ifs and variables, but 50/50 is, in the entrepreneurial space, pretty normal. In other niches that is quite generous for sure. And I would say that anywhere between 15% and 30% is going to be more usual for maybe more finance based industries and other niches as well.

Pat Flynn: But again, consider maybe not necessarily the percentage, but also, well, what's the exact dollar amount that a person might receive for every person? You can have 50% of a $10 product, and $5 is not going to be very attractive, right? I imagine your course is more than $10, but just something to think about.

Pat Flynn: And then the idea of B2B being really what you want to do, what if you took the Gary Vaynerchuk approach? And the Gary Vaynerchuk approach is free content on these platforms for everybody, right, and you become known as that person. And I love the name very catchy, very relatable to obviously introverts. And then it's that authority that you build, that trust that you build in the space that gives you the clout to go to businesses like Gary does. He hires Pepsi, he hires Home Depot, he hires Planters Peanuts because he just is well known to the public about those kinds of things. So, you can take that approach too, and all of your business could be B2B, in a way.

Pat Flynn: Just lots to think about, Mark, but a really, really great niche, honestly, and you have a lot of opportunity there for sure. Just lean into those things that are working. I know you're busy with other things as well, so the things you are working on, hopefully they're the ones that are going to move the needle, and that's what was the goal of the call today.

Mark Wilson: Yes, sir. Awesome.

Pat Flynn: All right. Well, Mark, thanks so much. One more time, where can people go to find, and of course, listen your podcast?

Mark Wilson: Yep. You can reach the podcast at my main website at SalesForIntroverts.com.

Pat Flynn: Awesome. Thank you, Mark. Appreciate you.

Mark Wilson: Thank you, Pat.

Pat Flynn: All right. I hope you enjoy that coaching call with Mark. Again, you can find him SalesForIntroverts.com. And a very important conversation, I hope you got some gold out of it for you and your personal journey through entrepreneurship, which again can be very difficult, especially if you are afraid to step out of that comfort zone.

Pat Flynn: And it's not to say that if you are an introvert, you are in fact at a disadvantage. I think that there are many things that an introvert actually has to their advantage when it comes to sales and marketing, and it's just a matter of using those things properly. And again, Mark can help you with that. And I'm so excited to see what happens next. Hopefully we can catch up with him again in the future in a where they now episode to see how he uses this information and where he goes from here. I'm so excited about that.

Pat Flynn: Anyway, Mark, thank you so much. Great job, and thank you again for opening up for us today and thank you for listening all the way through. I appreciate you. We got a lot of episodes coming your way, so make sure you don't miss them. You got to hit that subscribe button. And again, thank you, like I said last week, to everybody who's left to review and, and continues to support this podcast. It's just been so much fun to do, and I cannot wait for the future and all the things that are coming for it and for you. So, thank you again. I appreciate you and I'll look forward to serving you next week. Peace out and as always, Team Flynn for the win.

Pat Flynn: Thanks for listening to Ask at AskPat.com. I'm your host, Pat Flynn. Our senior producer is Sara Jane Hess. Our series producer is David Grabowski, and our executive producer is Matt Gartland. Sound editing by Duncan Brown. AskPat is a production of SPI Media. We'll catch you in the next session.