The Details Behind Starting an LLC For Your Small Business – Part 2

starting-llc-small-businessThis is the second part to my two post series about starting an LLC. In part 1, I talked about the pros and cons of starting your own business. Part 2 will walk you through exactly what you need to know before you apply.

Here’s that disclaimer again: I am not a lawyer, CPA or any kind of professional. I simply share my own experiences about how I did things, and the actions you take based on what I say is not my responsibility. As always, you should seek advice from a trusted professional before making these types of decisions. Thanks!

Let’s get right into it.

Before you apply for any kind of business structure, whether it’s an LLC or a Corporation, you’re going to need a physical business address.

You should not use your home address.

Why?

Because you want to keep your business and personal activities as separate as possible. There could be consequences involved by mixing the two together. This is exactly the reason why you should also create a business banking account after you receive your paperwork from the state.

So what can you do?

You basically have two options:

  1. Lease a physical office with an address.
  2. Get a mailbox at a local UPS Store (or equivalent).

#1 is not really an option for most of us who are just working from home on the internet. The best thing you can do to get your business address is to rent a mailbox from a local UPS Store, or any other type of place that has mailboxes, except the Post Office.

When submitting your application for your business, you’re not allowed to use a P.O. Box number. However, when you rent from a UPS Store, you can simply turn your mailbox number into a “Suite” number, and the address will totally fly. In fact, that’s what was recommended to me by the person working at the UPS Store.

So, if I ended up getting mailbox #111 from a UPS Store on 222 Main Street, my physical business address might look like this:

222 Main Street, Suite 111

Alternatively, you could use #111, Unit 111, STE 111 – it’s up to you. I like to use Suite because it sounds pretty awesome.

Renting out the smallest mailbox for 6 months will cost you about $147.00. You could get a better deal (per month) if you go with a longer contract.

Also, make sure to bring two forms of identification, which is required to get a mailbox – at least from the UPS Store.

What You Need to Know for Your LLC

In this section, I’ll take you through the kinds of questions you’re going to have to answer as you sign up for your LLC, specifically through LegalZoom, however you’ll need to know these things anyways if you decide to file on your own or hire a lawyer to do it for you.

The Name of Your Company

First, you’ll have to come up with a name for your company. The name is totally up to you, however there are a few restrictions that I’ll quickly note for you here:

  1. The name of our company must end with “limited liability company”, “LLC” or “L.L.C”. (Mine is Flynndustries, LLC).
  2. It must not contain the words “bank,” “trust,” “trustee,”"incorporated,” “inc.,” corporation,” or “corp.,” or “insurer” or “insurance company” or any other words suggesting that it is in the business of issuing policies of insurance and assuming insurance risks.
  3. It cannot be the same (or almost the same) as any other reserved or registered LLC.

That last one is a biggy. In order to see if the name of your company (or one similar to it) has already been used, you’ll have to check with your Secretary of State records. To do this, simply type in the following into a Google Search field:

name of state” secretary of state business name search

Example:

california-business-name-search

Conveniently, if you file through LegalZoom, they will do this check for you. You can enter 2 alternate business names just in case your first choice has already been taken or looks similar to an existing business name.

The Federal Tax Identification Number

The Federal Tax ID Number, also known as an EIN (Employer Identification Number), is basically the equivalent of a social security number for your business. You’ll be asked by Legalzoom whether or not you would like them to help your LLC apply for an EIN.

You absolutely need the EIN in order to create your business, obtain your business banking account, and get paid. You have the option of having Legalzoom apply for one for you (for a fee), or simply have them prepare the IRS forms for you (for a smaller fee), so you can send them off yourself.

Update: You can also apply for your EIN online through the IRS website. It’s relatively simple and you get your EIN almost immediately.

Thanks to Jay Thrash, a commenter below for this helpful tip.

Who Will Be Your Registered Agent?

Most states require that any business entity must designate and maintain a “Registered Agent“.

A registered agent is the person designated to accept official documentation if the LLC is “served” with a lawsuit.

The agent must either be:

  1. an adult living in the same state that you formed your business in (although again P.O. boxes are not acceptable); or
  2. a company registered with the Secretary of State in the same state that you formed your business in.

If you form your LLC in your home state, any one of it’s members could become the registered agent for the company. That being said, there are some advantages to having another person or company act as your registered agent:

  • First, it adds an extra layer of privacy, (since the registered agent’s name and contact information are publicly available), and;
  • Secondly, this ensures if your LLC is named in a lawsuit, no one will surprise you at home on a Sunday night with court papers, which would totally suck.

I understand that much of this is probably new to you and it’s a lot to think about, but that’s why I’m here. There’s more, so lets keep going!

How Will Your LLC Be Run?

Before we move any further, understand this terminology related to LLCs: A “member” is the same as an owner of the LLC. There may be more than one.

If the LLC is managed by it’s members, then it’s owners are responsible for running the company.

If the LLC has a specific manager, then the appointed manager (who doesn’t necessarily have to be a member), is responsible for running the company, not the members.

For those of you who are going at it alone, you’ll simple have one member (you), and the company will be managed by it’s single member (you again).

If you’re confused by any of this, don’t worry. Again, LegalZoom does a great job of explaining everything (which is how I learned all of this by going through it several times myself!), and personally it justified the slightly higher fees than simply filing for the LLC on your own.

Capital Contribution and Percentage of Ownership

If you’re a single member LLC, this part is easy. You simply enter how much you’re going to initially contribute to the company, as well as the percentage of ownership, which is 100%.

If you have other members, then this becomes a little more difficult. Hopefully, you and your partner(s) have spent time talking about percentages of ownership and how much each of you are contributing to the company.

This will have an impact on how you share your profits, so if you haven’t already done so, be sure to work things out (civilly) with your business partners before you get to this point.

How Do You Want Your LLC to Be Taxed

You have two options here.

You can be taxed as a pass-through entity such as a partnership or sole proprietorship, or, you can be taxed as a corporation.

If you choose to be taxed as a partnership (for multi member LLCs) or sole proprietorship (for single member LLCs), then the LLC itself does not pay taxes and does not have a tax return. The LLC owner(s) report business losses or profits on their personal tax returns.

If you elect to be taxed as a corporation, then you may go through what’s called “double taxation”, meaning the profits of your corporate first get taxed at the corporate level, and then again on your personal tax returns.

There is some additional paperwork needed to fill out (provided by Legalzoom), if you do choose to be taxed as a corporation.

How Long Will You Have to Wait Before You Actually Become a Business Entity?

After you answer a few other questions and submit your application to LegalZoom, who will then process the information you provide to the State, you’re looking at an average of 20-35 days before you get any type of paperwork back from the state, which includes your EIN, your Articles of Organization and Operating Agreement, which are all required by most banks in order to get a business bank account.

When I helped my friend start his own business the other day, LegalZoom said that the Secretary of the State (this is in California), was actually back logged with new business applications, so there would be a bit of a delay. I don’t know if that’s a good thing (because new businesses are starting up), or a bad thing (because there just isn’t enough personnel or effort into helping Californians start their own business), but either way, it’s going to take awhile before we hear back. Wait time will obviously vary between States, but it won’t happen overnight.

How Much Will it Cost You?

Well, the answer depends on which options you choose on LegalZoom.

LegalZoom has three different packages: the Economy Package, the Standard Package, and the Express Gold. You can view exactly what is included with each package here, but all you really need to officially start your business is the cheapest package, the Economy Package, which costs $149.00 + any state fees.

When I started my first company, I was really excited so I decided to go all out and purchase the Express Gold package. It was pretty cool because I got a nice looking folder with my company name embossed on it, a seal stamp (like the one shown on the picture at the top of this post), and a CD-rom with a bunch of business and legal forms, but honestly none of that stuff is required, and I’ve never used most of that stuff.

With the Economy package, the Federal Tax ID number, the Registered Agent service, and fees for the state of California, the total comes to just over $500.00.

No, that’s not cheap. And yes, you could probably get it done for less money by doing it on your own. However, I feel that the price is fair because of the education I received while I was filling out the application, as well as the excellent customer service and help that LegalZoom provides for us new business owners.

That’s just me though, and exactly how you proceed is totally up to you. I’m just simply sharing my own experiences hoping that you’ll learn from them in one way or another. As always, you should seek professional advice before making any business decisions regarding the formation of your company.

I hope this 2 post series about forming an LLC has helped some of you as you begin to take what you do online to a whole new level in 2010.

Lastly, to all of you non-U.S. readers, I know these last two posts do not really apply to you, but hopefully you can get a glimpse as to how these kinds of things work in the U.S. If any of you have any similar posts or resources for starting businesses in other countries, please feel free to share, as I’m sure other people are as curious as me.

Thanks everyone, and I’m wishing you all the best. Have a great weekend!

Cheers!

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DJ Wetzel February 19, 2010 at 7:29 am

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Great follow up post Pat!

This will really come in handy as my wife and i form our first LLC. Invaluable.

Pat February 19, 2010 at 12:27 pm

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Awesome! Thanks DJ, and good luck with that!

Travis February 19, 2010 at 7:50 am

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Thanks for the details Pat! I’m thinking about starting an LLC in March or April. This was a really great overview of what to expect.

Pat February 19, 2010 at 12:28 pm

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Great Travis! Let me know if you have any additional questions as you go through the process later in the year, and I’ll do what I can to help. Cheers!

Tim Bourquin February 19, 2010 at 8:22 am

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Good stuff Pat. Only one thing I think is incorrect. You do have to file a return for the LLC – it’s IRS Form 1065 if you are treating it as a partnership. Or if you are being taxed as a corporation, Form 1120S (if you have elected to be taxed as an S Corporation).

Electing to be taxed as an S corp also avoids the double taxation issue.

But I’m not an accountant, so be sure to check all this with your tax professional, (Blah, blah, blah) – you know the routine.

Thanks.

Pat February 19, 2010 at 12:29 pm

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Ahh – you’re right. In fact, that’s what we did for my app business with my partner and I, but again the profits and losses are passed through to our personal tax returns, and not double taxed. Thanks for that correction, and great disclaimer, lol!

Thanks Tim.

Moon Hussain February 19, 2010 at 8:30 am

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Wow Pat, that’s really detailed. I’m sure it’ll help me once I get “there”. Btw, we loved San Diego so much! Probably moving in early June.

Hope you’re having fun with the baby!

Pat February 19, 2010 at 12:30 pm

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Definitely having lots of fun with our baby boy! He’s into the smiling stage now, so it’s pretty awesome. Glad you liked San Diego! Once you move down, we should grab a coffee sometime. let me know. Thanks!

RJ Weiss February 19, 2010 at 9:04 am

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Thanks Pat. Learned a lot from this series. Keep the good posts coming.

Pat February 19, 2010 at 12:33 pm

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I’ll do my best! Thanks for your support RJ!

Jay Thrash February 19, 2010 at 11:29 am

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Great write up! One tip you might want to include is that you can apply for your EIN online through the IRS website:

https://sa2.www4.irs.gov/modiein/individual/index.jsp

Applying online couldn’t be easier and you get an EIN almost immediately. No need to mail in forms or pay someone else to do it for you.

Pat February 19, 2010 at 12:24 pm

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Thanks Jay, that’s a sweet tip. I’ll add it to the post and credit you for it right now. Cheers!

Wesley LeFebvre February 19, 2010 at 11:57 am

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Very thorough and insightful. I’ve been thinking about doing an LLC for awhile. Thanks, Pat.

Pat February 19, 2010 at 9:04 pm

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Anytime Wesley! Thanks!

Christopher S. Everett February 19, 2010 at 12:50 pm

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You can actually elect to have a LLC taxed as a S-Corporation during formation. This gives you advantages over being taxed as a sole proprietor. As a sole proprietor your income is hit heavily with a 15.3% self-employment tax covering expenses normally paid by an employer that you no longer have being self-employed and tax on your income based on current income tax tables. This combine tax rate can push close to 50% of your income. The 15.3 % self-employment tax only applies to the first $100,000 or so of income. By electing to be taxed as a S-Corp you can pay yourself a reasonable salary of say $50K per year which is subject to this combine tax rate. Profits over this you’d like to pay to yourself can be done as a bonus and be subject to your income tax rate only minus the 15.3%. An S-Corp also eliminates double taxation experienced by C-Corporations. As Pat said, spend time with your CPA to find the strategy that works best for you.

Pat February 19, 2010 at 9:03 pm

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Hi Christopher,

Thanks so much for that most informative comment. In fact, I wanted to do more research about this before posting about it, as I may switch over sometime soon. I wanted to talk to my CPA more about this. Indeed, the 15.3% self employment tax is craziness!

All the best to you! Thanks again!

Than

Philip Ellis February 19, 2010 at 3:10 pm

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That is some great information. Thanks for posting an easy to understand version of something that would have taken me hours to research if I tried to figure it all out on my own!

Philip Ellis February 19, 2010 at 3:11 pm

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I wonder if my gravatar will show up under this email address?…

Pat February 19, 2010 at 8:59 pm

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Yep! It does!

Maren Kate February 19, 2010 at 8:03 pm

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Good stuff Pat i wish I had of had this when I started my LLC :)

Pat February 19, 2010 at 9:01 pm

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Thanks Maren! I checked out your blog, and I loved seeing you implement some of what I talked about in this blog. It’s obviously working well for you! Keep up the great posts, people are lovin’ it!

Ken Siew February 19, 2010 at 9:03 pm

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Great stuffs there Pat! Very detailed explanations. The one about PO Box is spot on. It’s really important to separate your address/bank accounts from your personal stuffs to avoid legal issues (lawsuits!). And of course to avoid having random strangers barge into your house to ask for advice +P

I’d also like to emphasize the need to seek professional advice either through a lawyer or through legalzoom when you decide to form your LLC. The series should definitely be your base where you think about the names, taxation, etc. But the actual execution is more complicated based on individual situations. E.g. there might be benefits such as getting tax savings if you form your LLC in Nevada. Your lawyer will be the best person to get you set up for your biz! All the best.

Karen February 20, 2010 at 7:34 am

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Great series, Pat. Although I’m not ready to form an LLC right now, I’m bookmarking this article for when I do need the info again. There’s a ton of helpful advice here. I didn’t know that you couldn’t use a PO Box for your LLC address – using UPS or buying a mailbox is a great way around this. Now, I know when I see those ‘Suites’ I’ll know where they ‘really’ come from :-) Now that you have your new home, you are able to use the tax savings for your dedicated office – good stuff!

Randy Mejias February 20, 2010 at 8:26 am

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I’ve been wanting to do the whole LLC thing for a while. I’ll probably wait though, at least until I have a reason to sink some more money into my internet attempts (the reason being mainly cashflow). Some good stuff in these past two articles about starting up an LLC and details around them.

I love all those fees you get charger for starting them, and I think you mentioned a yearly one in CA. Fees and taxes are so fun :D

Stephen (InventionAddict) February 20, 2010 at 9:19 pm

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Can I get a time machine and go back to when I started my LLC? Please!

Great tips. I will definitely share with my invention addict friends.

Vinay February 22, 2010 at 12:27 am

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Great stuff, will definitely be implementing this in the near future!

Next, an extra passport and off shore assets :)

Carrie February 22, 2010 at 5:30 am

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Thanks for writing this, it was very helpful. I was thinking of starting an LLC but had no idea about the added costs (fee, mailbox). Now I am thinking it’s not the way to go just yet. I’ll have to do some more research, but this post was a huge help.

Colby February 22, 2010 at 11:29 am

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Thanks Pat! This article is very helpful and I’ll definitely take a look at LegalZoom.

I’m going to meet with my CPA in the next month and see what his thoughts are on starting an LLC. Your information gives me a great starting point and some ballpark numbers for how much this will all cost.

Margo February 22, 2010 at 5:55 pm

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Nice article! But I’m curious why you can’t use a p.o. box. Is that a restriction in California only? I’m interested in an LLC in Delaware and I haven’t heard that.

Tammy February 23, 2010 at 8:13 am

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Great post, Pat. The hubby & I did all this ourselves. Saved a lot of money and it was definitely an education! Another tip: Make sure you check the relevant laws for your particular state. Do a search for “[your state] corporation commission” – the Virginia SCC website had a step-by-step guide that helped us out a lot. The address thing is kind of weird in VA, too. You can use a PO box if you live in a town with less than a certain population, blah blah blah. We ended up having to use our physical address. Getting our paperwork back from the SCC only took about 10 days. When in doubt – check your yellow pages for business attorneys, CPAs, etc who offer FREE initial consultations! :) [...Happy Anniversary!]

Elias February 25, 2010 at 4:41 pm

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Great posts Pat. One question: How do you tax your business and why? Ok, that is two questions.

Thank you.

Rich March 5, 2010 at 12:48 pm

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Please be advised that the USPS prohibits the use of the term “suite” and requires boxholders at places like The UPS Store to use “PMB” (Private Mail Box) or # followed by the box number, e.g., PMB 1234 or #1234. More information on this topic is available in the domestic mail manual at usps.com.

Jay Willingham - CampusByte March 22, 2010 at 1:17 am

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Hey Pat,
Thanks for putting this two part series together. I stumbled upon this at the right time. Unfortunately, as a college student, paying almost 500 for an LLC is not possible. Hopefully in the near future, some of my hard work will pay off and I will see some results. Then I will purchase the LLC.

jared July 26, 2010 at 7:39 am

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I have a general question, hope someone can help me out here.

I’m preparing to sell some digital products online via e-junkie and paypal pro account as per Pat suggested on SPI. I want to be able to eventually setup an LLC and figured it would make sense to do the LLC prior to applying for my PayPal Pro account and all that “other” stuff. Or, is it possible to switch over the PayPal pro account later?

I just have a hard time justifying starting an LLC when I’m only making around $400 a month now with my online business. Just wondering what other people have done and any suggestions on things they wish they would have done differently.

Thanks in advance for any help.

peter October 3, 2010 at 2:06 pm

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Hi Pat,

I heard there are lots of tax advantages forming an LLC in Nevada. The fee is also much cheaper than California. Are you aware of any disadvantages/problems of forming an out of state LLC, provided that the business is an online business?

paoling February 11, 2011 at 5:24 pm

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hi pat, AWESOME POST!!! do you know that if i want to run multiple businesses, do i file for 1 LLC & however many DBAs for the number of businesses i am planning on?

Glen Craig June 5, 2011 at 6:19 am

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Hi Pat, a lot of great info here!

Keep in ind that every state may have different requirement. For example, in New York State you need to have your new business announced in two periodicals/newspapers. This is an added layer and cost to setting everything up.

Sophia July 31, 2011 at 5:03 pm

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This two-series post on setting up your business was very helpful, particularly since I live in California. I just applied for my LLC … business ownership is now one step closer.

Andrew October 13, 2011 at 4:21 am

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Hey Pat,

I’m curious if you can recommend a good CPA that you use. I am having trouble finding a good person to talk with about online business/niche sites and managing my full time gig.

Thanks!

Oscar Pedroso November 27, 2011 at 8:40 pm

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Been following this blog for almost two months and I can proudly say that I’m in the process of hearing back from New York State and my LLC filing. Would be happy to chat with other New York LLCers. This stuff can be confusing at times!

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