AP 1129: My Target Audience Are Not My Buyers. What Do I Do?

AP 1129: My Target Audience are Not My Buyers. What do I do?

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Pat Flynn:
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Pat:
What's up everybody? Pat Flynn here and welcome to episode 1,129 of AskPat 2.0. You're about to hear a conversation between myself and an entrepreneur, just like you. And today we're talking with Tola who is an entrepreneur who actually specializes in helping athletes in Africa become higher level and professional athletes by both, and this is really interesting, in two ways. Number one, helping them with their growth mindset, helping them uncover their best potential through personal development and through coaching and that sort of thing. And, the ability to help those who want to go to a higher level as a lawyer, as somebody who can navigate the world of athletes and things like that, all the way from middle and high school type level to Olympic level, right? You can find him at AthleteMaestro, M-A-E-S-T-R-O.com this is a really great conversation because he's having trouble speaking to two different audiences.

Pat:
And if you've ever had two different audiences, especially if one is who you're targeting, but the other is really the ones who make the buying decisions, i.e., kids versus parents, well, there's some interesting things that we need to talk about, which is exactly what we talk about today. So I hope you enjoy this episode with Tola from athletemaestro.com. Here we go.

Pat:
Tola, welcome to AskPat 2.0. Thanks so much for being here today.

Tola Ogunlewe:
Thank you for having me, Pat, it's a real honor to be here.

Pat:
I'm excited for it. And I'd love to learn a little bit more about you and what you do. And I think the audience would as well. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Tola:
So basically I'm a Mindset and Performance coach to young athletes. So what you would call more or less a sports performance coach. And I'm also a sports lawyer. So basically what I do is I help young athletes break their mental and physical limitations in sports. And the ones that can scale the grade, so to speak, to get to that professional rank, then I help them with the legal aspects. The legal aspect is more or less like the backend or the top tier, so to speak of the product, or basically it's helping the athletes break their mental and physical limitations because I've gone through that process before.

Tola:
I wanted to become a professional athlete, but I tore my ACL in my knee, which meant that my journey was cut short. So how could I use my experience to help other athletes behind me, particularly the African athletes? So that's why I started Athlete Maestro. So I'm the host of the podcast. And of course, you were one of the people that inspired me to start that as well, along with JLD. So I do that through the podcast. And of course the ones that scale that height then get to that legal aspect.

Pat:
Athlete Maestro, that's the name of the podcast and website and all the things.

Tola:
Yes. Athlete Maestro. So basically mastering your craft of being an athlete.

Pat:
I love that, and I love the idea of offering... That's probably very unique for somebody who is teaching mindset for athletes is to also go, "Okay, now that you've unlocked this and you're at this level now, let me help you through the legal things" that I would imagine, correct me if I'm wrong, but especially for a young and excited athlete who wants to get to that pro level, there's a lot of legal things that need to happen from, working with an agent, to signing deals and contracts and you know where to go and how, and what the terms and conditions are. That's, that's a huge thing. And I love that that's a thing that you offer too. That's very unique and I think you're owning that very, very well. So that's fantastic. Tell us what's on your mind, what's going on, what can I help you with?

Tola:
So basically the way things work in Africa and the way things work in the US and the Europe, it's a little bit different in the sense that... One of the things that I struggled with the most initially, so I wanted to gain traction and I believe I've done that. So over 500 episodes of the podcast, over 115,000 downloads of the podcast, so I believe I've done that. Now that it comes to monetizing, that is where you get to the point where the athletes themselves have that difficulty. So initially, I thought it was because I wasn't properly articulating my value, or probably because I wasn't articulating the value to the person making the buying decisions, which is why-

Pat:
Not necessarily the athlete, but maybe the parent of the athlete.

Tola:
Exactly, exactly. So, which is why I shifted a little bit, focused on the parents, and that got some sales coming in. So the parents themselves saw the value and they're like, "Oh wow, great. My child would need this," and things like that. But the problem now is for the athletes themselves, because I've been in their shoes. I imagine myself as a 16-year old all those years ago. And I see the product that I offer, how would I have been able to get the money? I would have had to go to my parents. So I think it's like getting that connection, so to speak, in terms of speaking to them in the way where they not only see the value, but probably they can then articulate it to the person making the buying decisions and then buy, basically.

Pat:
So how are you doing that right now?

Tola:
Basically what I do now is I try to... I'm focusing on the parents exclusively, but I want to switch that back onto the athletes themselves, because I believe if they see the value, they are the ones that will play. They're the ones that are taking all the risk. They're the ones that are enjoying the reward. So if probably, if they see that, then they can articulate to their parents and say, "Hey, I need this. It's going to help me get to the next level" and things like that. So it's how to switch now. So I haven't really been doing anything, I think that's where I'm struggling. And that's where that block comes in a little bit in terms of what specific thing to actually do that then makes it better.

Pat:
Gotcha. Yes. I'm trying to put my mindset in, if I was a 16-year-old athlete, definitely my parents would be the one that I would need to convince. So I think speaking... But the initial draw likely comes from the kid. They're the ones that they're discovering you—they're seeing the great athletes that are coming out of your agency and they want to be a part of that too. So they're then going to go to the parents and then having you be able to speak to and have resources for the parents as well is really important. And again, this idea of you also being a lawyer provides a lot of authority. That would probably be the thing that actually entices the parents more than anybody, right? "Hey, this is Tola, he is helping me, but he's also a lawyer."

Pat:
So although at least in the US people don't necessarily trust lawyers that much. But I think when it comes to a lawyer specifically who can help manage and navigate the crazy arena of sports and athletes all the way from high school to Olympic level, potentially, then having you in their corner would be a very smart decision. So now the question is, "Okay, well with the content that we're creating and what we're coming out with, who do we speak to? And what do I say?" I would imagine that you potentially are feeling a little confused right now. And who am I speaking to? And what do I say? And if the messages aren't clear, then it's not going to be received clearly.

Pat:
So we have to make sure we hone in on this. And there's a couple strategies that I know some people would have done in this sort of situation, especially with people who are teachers who speak to the kids, but then have the parents. Sometimes on websites and in brands, and even in podcasts, there are specifically resources for the kids and there's specifically resources for the parents. I would imagine that if somebody were to work with you, it's actually inclusive of both, right? Like you were working with the kid and the parent at the same time, I would imagine. Is that correct?

Tola:
Yeah. When both of them are on board; so, if I come in through the athlete, then the parent gets on board. If I come in through the parents, then the athlete gets on board.

Pat:
Right. And the trouble is you have one platform to speak to both. Is that correct? So what are some ideas that you have, or what have you tried so far? And then I'll share with you some of the thoughts that I have as well.

Tola:
So starting with the parents and switching over to the parents, so what I then did was I created a webinar where I teach parents how to nurture their child's talents in sports. So I started that this year and off the back of that I've seen, I think up until now, probably about close to 300 parents have gone through that, gone through the webinar. Of the 300 parents that have gone through the webinar, many of them have bought the course, so what I did was to create a course after that, which of course gives them the whole sports parenting experience. So mastering sports parenting. So you want your child to play sports. So now the desire coming from the parents in terms of, they are the ones that want their children to play sports.

Tola:
So that's what I did with the parents: through the webinar, they come into the course, from the course of course, we now have that one on one relationship where I then switch it over to the athletes themselves. So I'm done with the parents, I've shown you what you need to do, everything you need to know. Now we move it to the parent. So that's what I did with the parents, for the athletes is basically through the podcast. So I feel like if I can grow the podcast, then maybe the kind of athletes who can afford or who don't have the difficulty with the buying decision so to speak, in terms of articulating it to their parents, they then also come into it as well. So I think those are the two things I'm doing. So from the parents is the webinar, for the athletes is the podcast.

Pat:
How are the parents getting access to the webinar? That's converting, which is great. Let's see how we might be able to get more people into that to start, but how are they knowing about it? How are you getting them in into that?

Tola:
Basically social media. So initially I did word of mouth. So just got friends to retweet and repost on Instagram. So I think that was how we were able to get the first 50. But after that, I ran a couple of ads to my Instagram posts and also on Twitter. So I think that's how I was able to get the 300 plus parents who are now on my email list, of course.

Pat:
That's awesome. Your podcast is the big one though, right? That's the big content platform. So if I am an athlete excited about everything you're saying, I'm listening to the podcast. How do I even know this webinar exists?

Tola:
The athletes would not know the webinar exists because I don't talk about the webinar on the podcast at all.

Pat:
Because it's not for them, seemingly, right, for the parents. But if I am an athlete and I know that my parents are the ones that make the decisions, then I can tell if I knew this thing existed, my parents, "Hey, I follow this guy, Tola, he's helping me with navigating this world of being an athlete. And he's creating this thing for you." "What, for me?" "Yes, you're my parent, and he wants to help you understand more about how I can grow and build myself as an athlete. Here is the website where you can get more information, parent, about this." That would be, I think something that if I, as an athlete, as a child, wanted to grow, and I knew my parents could help me get to where I wanted to be, because ultimately they do make the decisions, then it would behoove me not to try to convince them to go to that.

Pat:
And the webinar's free, right?

Tola:
Free.

Pat:
It's like a... It's almost like, in school how if there's something important going on that I want to do, but the parents are the decision makers, I will tell the parents, "Hey, my teacher is going to be on Zoom later today. And I would love for you to watch this. Cause I'm interested in this robotics program." Robotics program is for the kid, but the parents are the ones who get to decide whether or not they want to invest in that. But I, as a kid need to tell my parents where to go to get that information. So what's going through your head right now?

Tola:
Yeah, I think it makes sense. I think it makes sense because it's more or less like you saying that speak to the athletes to speak to their parents, right?

Pat:
You need to number one, let them know where to take them. And number two, ideally you can also equip them with the how, right? So maybe at the end of every episode, you go, "Hey, by the way, we have this thing for your parents. If you know your parents can help you, we have a thing for them. Here's what you need to do. Tell them to go to this website and to sign up, it's free," and tell them, "Here's what they get there." And that way, when they pitch this to their parents, they already know the kinds of things to say. I think that could work out. And just even a mention at the end of every episode, if that is indeed, the driver. That in and of itself could start to go from 300 people going through that webinar to 600 to a thousand.

Pat:
You have 850,000 downloads and hardly any of those kids know that this webinar exists, right?

Tola:
Yes.

Pat:
We need to start getting them to know that. You could even have a resource specifically... Maybe it's an individual podcast episode, maybe it's just one episode that's dedicated specifically to how to convince your parents to help you become an athlete. Like that's the episode title.

Tola:
Oh wow, okay.

Pat:
And in that episode, you're talking to the kid and then you go, "Hey, by the way, I have this thing that would be helpful for your parents to watch, it's for them. I made it for them. I speak to them. Here's the website. You tell your parents to go there." And that's just the call to action. And now this one episode is all about the kid and maybe in 10 episodes down the road, you go, "Hey, by the way, if you need help with convincing your parents to help you, go listen to this other episode that I already created." That becomes the resource, that even can become the big number one thing that they should see when they come on website, for example, I don't know. I'm just brainstorming. What do you think?

Tola:
It makes sense. It makes sense. Because if for example, the parents don't hear about it through social media and my posting it, what other way are they going to hear about it? Especially if it's their children who are telling them that "I want to play sports, I want to play sports. I want to play sports." And I think that makes sense in terms of now pushing the athletes themselves to now go... But do you think, do you think that any mention should be made about the parents being the one making buying decisions or it's just a case of, "Hey, I have this thing for your parents. You'd be really great. This is what you would teach them. This is what you will help them do. Let them come" or pointedly saying that, "Look, I know you don't have the money. I know you don't make the buying decisions, get the person that makes the buying decisions come in." I'm just thinking.

Pat:
I wouldn't explicitly say that, it might be inferred, but I don't think that's necessary, because the truth is a parent has major influence on a kid's career, obviously. And if we can better equip them to help you, well, then everybody wins.

Tola:
True.

Pat:
So this episode and this resource is there not just for the parents, but it's actually there for the kids too, but it's equipping the parents with the knowledge to help them. So that's one way, and I think that would be a smart thing to do because you already have that audience there and they have that direct connection to the buyers. The other thing to do would be, and I know this as having gone through a lot of sport programs, played soccer as a kid and whatnot, these parents talk to each other. So how are you encouraging the people who are working with you or who have gotten information from you, the parents, to recommend to refer, whether that is a referral fee... If somebody works with you and then they can get a certain percentage off if they share it with a number of people. Or maybe even, I don't know what the deal structure is like, but maybe a certain dollars off or a certain amount of time for free or a free call or something if they bring somebody else on board.

Pat:
This is what happens in these communities. You become like the one guy that everybody talks about because you were that resource. And it just takes... Sometimes it takes time to get to that point where there is word of mouth, but you can help spur that on. But then sometimes you get that one star athlete who has that very loud parent who will become your ambassador, if that makes sense. And those people you want to treat like gold as well. Have you done any parent-to parent sort of encouraging at least or anything like that?

Tola:
Well, I haven't done it specifically. What I've done is for the parents who have gone through the course, I asked them to leave testimonials and reviews. So I then use the testimonials for other parents. So I haven't directly said, "Hey, refer another parent. And probably this is what we can work out, this is what we can do. Free sessions, free coaching." I haven't done that. So I think that's one of the things that I can incorporate as well.

Pat:
You could try that, but sometimes it might just be asking. Sometimes people just need to be asked and that's it. You don't even have to give them anything in return because you've already given them so much up front. So just an ask, "Hey, if you happen to know any other parents of athletes in your community, I would love to welcome them in and help them out too and invite them to the webinar. Here's a link to the webinar." Have the parents share the webinar link with everybody else. So that could be a fun, easy way to go about it too.

Tola:
I think that makes sense, that makes sense.

Pat:
But you, in my eyes, are set up very, very well. It's now just a puzzle that we have to find the right pieces. And once you get it going, then pay attention to, well, what's working—and do more of that. You're very close, but I love what you're doing. I love the niche. I love your offerings. I love what you're doing. These kids need you. And these parents need you to, because man, I mean, I have two kids, I wouldn't even know where to begin when it comes to if my son was an athlete. You're offering a beautiful service and it's so important. So I just want to encourage you moving forward. We've talked about a lot of things here, what else is on your mind or do you want to go deeper into any of this?

Tola:
Hmm, I think I can begin to implement that at least now. First and foremost, so go through the athlete to the parents then also the referral thing as well. But I was also going to ask in terms of growing the podcast, what other things can I do? Because at least consistency is not a problem. Content's not really a problem, but basically it's just growing it.

Pat:
Sure. So two things I want to offer you, the number one way that a lot of my students are growing their podcasts is by getting on other people's podcasts. So there might be some other athlete or kid, or even outside of those specific, same niches. Maybe there's some family and mom podcast, mom and dad podcasts, who obviously may have a kid who might be in sports, who would be interested in learning from you about, well, how does one help their child navigate sports and stay in the right mindset and stay encouraged? And what does it look like if somebody wanted to go pro? What would that even look like? I'm interested in that as a parent, and if I heard you on another person's show, talk about that, then I at least know who you are, you're getting this exposure. And I might listen to your show, especially if my son or daughter starts to get a little bit more interested in that.

Pat:
So that's one way to go about it. The other thing would be, and I don't know if you're doing this yet, but this would allow your show to grow from within, meaning this would be something worth sharing with people and have your own people who already know and find you be able to help grow the show from within. And what I mean by that is you could use your platform to interview some of the students that you've already helped and maybe even asking them about what the challenges are of their journey, what they've done, a little bit more about their story, that I think would be very encouraging to other kids. And especially if you maybe even wanted to do a two part, this could, this could kind of cool, two part, part one, the conversations with the kid, part two of the conversation is with the parent.

Pat:
That could be very interesting as a story just in whole, from both sides about the journey, the struggles, but then what you've helped them with and where they ended up and how they're doing as an athlete now and how proud they are as a parent. And now a student and an athlete can actually hear another parent that's proud of another kid who's gone through that process. They're going to be maybe even more encouraged to get the parent involved. And there could be some fun storytelling there that could be worth sharing.

Tola:
Okay, that's good. I think that will come a little bit later. We got a lot of those athletes and those parents I'm still working with them. So more or less work in progress, so to speak.

Pat:
Exactly, yeah.

Tola:
That's something definitely for the nearest future. Once those results start popping in and you know, they are getting to the levels that they should be getting to. So I think that's very good, that makes sense.

Pat:
Cool. Yeah, that works really well. We do that on AskPat as well. When we invite people back who have been coached here and they talk about their progress and how much they've grown and what they've done, I'd love to invite you back in the future in several months to kind of catch up and see how things are going, if that's okay?

Tola:
Oh yeah. Definitely. Because if there's something that I'm not averse to, it's putting in the work. People are always surprised like, "You just had this plan or you put in the work." So definitely everything that we're saying here is definitely going into the work. So I wouldn't mind being back to give you progress just to say that, "Hey, this worked, this didn't work. This is how we tweaked it and all that" definitely.

Pat:
Awesome. Well, I'm sure the audience would love to hear back from you as well. Keep doing what you're doing. We appreciate you. Thank you Tola, where can people who want to know more about what you offer, where can they go one more time.

Tola:
Basically my website is athletemaestro.com. Everything that you need, everything you need is there.

Pat:
Awesome, dude. Thank you so much. We appreciate you.

Tola:
Thank you, Pat.

Pat:
All right. I hope you enjoyed that coaching call with Tola. Again, you can find him at athletemaestro.com and I look forward to following up with him in the future. By the way, if you have the urge to want to get invited here on the show and get coached by me here just like Tola today, the only way for you to have the chance to do this is to go to askpat.com and leave a little application there. We have a form, you just click a button and then we can help you out. It's not guaranteed because there are so many requests that come in, but I can't help you unless you try. If you want to get coached here and also help others who are listening too, then that would be great. Ask pat.com. Thank you so much. And also if you haven't yet checked out SPI pro, this is our brand new membership community, a safe and inclusive place for entrepreneurs who have gotten started and want to connect with other like-minded folk to get some advice, to offer some advice, to take part in challenges, our book clubs, so many other different resources.

Pat:
It is a very, very economical price. I highly recommend you check it out. Smartpassiveincome.com/pro is where you want to go. Thanks so much for listening and I appreciate you. And as always, #TeamFlynnforthewin. Peace out.