AP 1115: I Want To Take My Business to the Next Level. Should I Write a Book?

AP 1115: I Want To Take My Business to the Next Level. Should I Write a Book?

Pat Flynn:
What's up everybody? Pat Flynn here, and welcome to episode 1,115 of AskPat 2.0. This podcast is actually a coaching call that you're going to listen in on between myself and an entrepreneur just like you. And today, we're speaking with Ramzi from wethesalesengineers.com, wethesalesengineers.com. And what we're going to be talking about today is monetizing the brand and the following that he's built. Obviously doing it in a graceful way, in a way that serves the audience, and just what opportunities are in front of us? From writing a book or courses, and how do we manage that? How do we validate all the strategies involved? And I know a lot of you have a following, a lot of you have a brand, yet you aren't yet monetizing or you've tried and you've struggled. If that's you, then this is the episode for you to listen to. So again, this is Ramzi from wethesalesengineers.com, let's dive right in. Hey Ramzi, welcome to AskPat 2.0. Thanks for being here today.

Ramzi Marjaba:
Thanks for having me on. Appreciate it.

Pat:
Yeah, I'm excited. So why don't you tell us really quick, a little bit about yourself and what you do and we'll go from there.

Ramzi:
Sure. Within my home, I'm a father of two, husband of one. I also work full time as a sales engineer. I have a website on the side which is meant to help other people in my position because sales engineering is kind of a lonely job in terms of working with colleagues. And there aren't any ways to actually transfer a lot of information or a lot of skills, so I decided to start a podcast, website, YouTube, what have you to help in that aspect.

Pat:
That's cool. What's the name of the of the brand so we can check it out?

Ramzi:
Sure. It's We the Sales Engineers or We the SEs for short.

Pat:
We the Sales Engineers. I like that. It's almost like a calling, like, "Hey, look at us and we're here together and we're in this together." I really like that. How long ago did you start all that?

Ramzi:
I started in February, 2018. That's when I started doing the interviews. I published the first one in April, 2018.

Pat:
Very nice. And how's it been going so far?

Ramzi:
Slow and steady. Very slow, but steady. I only have maybe a couple of hours a day to work on it in between jobs. It's a fairly demanding job, and it's a kind of niche down on a niche. There's the niche of sales and then I niche down on the engineers that work in sales. So I don't know if my audience is huge. I think there's like 68,000 SEs in the US alone. So my audience should be big enough.

Pat:
Yeah. Well, I mean there's potential there and they just have yet to find you, but let's get them to do that. Anyway, before we get to that though, what's on your mind? What can I help you with?

Ramzi:
At some point I'd like to monetize what I'm doing. It is going slow, but I have over a thousand subscribers, email subscribers. That happened all of a sudden. When I first messaged AskPat, like the website, I had only 400 which was in July, and then all of a sudden something happened. I'm not sure.

Pat:
You're not sure what?

Ramzi:
Well I did a couple of tweaks. I put a pop up on the website when they're exiting, not just pop ups after they've been there for a few seconds, it's when they're exiting because I figured, "Hey, if they're already exiting I have nothing to lose at this point." It's like calling them to stay there. The pop up also included a lead magnet for their use, which I try to change every month. So those who actually downloaded one month would have something else to download the month after and not just get bored with the content.

Pat:
That's awesome. Well congrats on that. And a thousand, I mean that's great. I mean imagine you getting a chance to speak to every week a thousand engine sales engineers in a room. I mean that's not a small amount of people, so that's fantastic. Okay. So you have an email list, you have the podcasts, and I'm assuming a website to go along with all that. What have you done to start thinking about monetizing so far?

Ramzi:
That's where I kind of need your help. I started writing a book. In my industry, there's a lot of people who provide training for companies for their sales engineers. There's a shortage of sales engineers because people like to only hire experienced sales engineers, that way they don't have to train them. Which means there's a big pool of engineers who want to become sales engineers that are not served. And that's the first portion that I'm trying to service right now. So I'm writing a book to help people actually move from engineering, sales engineering, in terms of fixing up their resumes, practicing interviews, because the interviews for sales engineers are fairly different than any other role. And there's also demonstrations that they have to do, but that's where I'm stuck. If I should write that book or if I should do just a course based on the information that I already wrote instead.

Pat:
Well, we have options, which is good. I mean I think first of all I just wanted to get a sense for, "Okay, where were you at in this process?" And to know that you already know your target audience, what they need help with. That's 50 percent of the job right there. So now we have to figure out, "Okay, what's the best way to deliver this content?" And obviously as you've probably found out, there's 101 different ways you could deliver it. You can do it with coaching, you can do it with a live event, you could do it like you said with a book or an online course. There's pros and cons to each and we can discuss some of them. So tell me a little bit more about why did you choose to start writing a book first before anything?

Ramzi:
Well, because I figured I can make a little bit of income from there, which I can then spend back on the website, or, at worst, I can provide it as a lead magnet. Because you've written, I don't know how many books, that you've provided as lead magnets. I pretty much try to emulate you.

Pat:
Well, that works. I mean the thing about lead magnets, just specifically on that, and it sounds like you've been offering lead magnets already. What are the lead magnets that you've been offering that has been working so well? Because that seems to be working already. You may not need to create another lead magnet or a book sized lead magnet. What have you been offering so far?

Ramzi:
Resume templates, meeting templates, the top 10 tools for sales, a top five tools for sales engineers, top five books for sales engineers. So I also created a Excel spreadsheet to help them track their commission and their quota.

Pat:
Those are super valuable. So I would just continue on that run with lead magnets, it seems like your audience is really resonating with tools and templates and there's probably an endless amount of those kinds of things that you could potentially offer. And then of course you can update them every year, and you can have the 2020 version coming out soon and each of those. I don't think that a book is necessary for you as a lead magnet. I would definitely, if you were to write a book, sell it for sure. 100 percent. And you have that audience already.

Ramzi:
My issue with my lead magnets, or at least my observation is that no one actually signed up for it until I put a pop up, which I don't know. I already heard Amazon's going to... Not Amazon. Mozilla Firefox is going to try to block those in the future. I don't know if it's true or not, but that's what I heard. That's a concern.

Pat:
It is a concern. I think the bigger concern is how did they not know about these lead magnets before the exit intent pop up? Meaning on the webpage, likely what that means is just people weren't met with the opportunity early enough before deciding to leave that you had these things available. So on your homepage for example, are these things mentioned at all during that point or not?

Ramzi:
On the homepage they're mentioned towards the bottom. So if you look at my website, you can see that it's fairly familiar because I stole most of it from you.

Pat:
That's okay. I have it out there so people can steal it.

Ramzi:
Yeah. And so it's towards the bottom of the page.

Pat:
Okay. Where it says "Free stuff?"

Ramzi:
Yeah.

Pat:
Yeah, I see that. Cool. I think that those could definitely make their way up more, and just kind of make their way closer to the top of the page. Because it does take... I mean you have a lot of good looking content here and so I think that could be brought up a little bit more. But let me click into one of these articles really quick or one of these podcasts episodes to see, because I'm noticing at the bottom of your blog posts for example, or podcast episodes, I do see something where it asked me to join your list, but then I don't know that I could get something for free.

Pat:
So I think one further level that you could do to sort of just in case Mozilla does that thing, and even if they don't, I think you could probably get some more email subscribers by if you scroll to the bottom of your blog post by changing out the one that just says "Stay in the loop." Which is a community-based sort of incentive and a lot of people may or may not be incentivized for that, but it sounds like you've already tested it and you know this. People are very incentivized by these lead magnets that you have. They're great. You're putting a lot of work into that. I would swap those out. I think that would be one of the first things that you could do to grow your email list even faster than what you've been doing so far.

Pat:
So I like that. Let me see your About page. This is a little test I like to do when I go to websites too. Love the fact that I see your family there. That's great. I get to connect with you. I would also include a lead magnet, sort of at the bottom of your About page as well. A lot of people want to know who they're learning from, and also include a little image. If it's a template, if it's a sort of downloadable, try to include... And I know I think you're using ConvertKit, it looks like. You can include a template that shows an image. And on that image, you can show a 3D version or just a screenshot of the template. And that'll make people want to download it even more.

Pat:
So those are just a few little tips that you could do. So at the bottom of your blog posts, move it up on the homepage, bottom of your About page. And then when that signup form shows up, include a little graphical image. I mean you're going to see your increase in email subscribers the moment you do those things. So that's number one. But let's get back to the conversation about a book, versus online course, versus another way to go about it. What would be the most helpful way to serve your audience in terms of how this content that you're creating is produced? You tell me, if I were in your audience, how could I best get help from you?

Ramzi:
Online course would be the best way to do it because I don't really have a course right now. The course would be actually as in the founders group if you will, would maybe I would sell it to 20 people and have two sessions of, or two teams of 10, or four teams of five where I would interact on a weekly basis with them to help them build their resumes, practice their interviews, practice their demonstrations where they're a hiring manager.

Pat:
Yeah, I love that. I was already leaning toward online course for the more technical stuff that it seems like that's required for an SE. A book is still great. I think it could work and a book could be sort of the why or the sort of higher level stuff about SE careers. And then that could even become a way for people to pay a little bit to get to know you a little bit more, to get some sort of quick information and then want to go deeper with you in the course. So if you're talking about monetization, I would actually take the more technical stuff that you're including in all the goodies in there and put that into an online course.

Pat:
The big question, and of course if you think about it, number one, I think you have an advantage of helping people with their careers. Because when you do that, there's very legitimate ROI. People can go, "If I spend this much to help me pass this exam, now I can put that on my resume." That's why the lead exam stuff that I did a while back did so well because I wasn't doing something that was a little bit more difficult to sell. I was selling, helping people, getting people a raise or promotion. So there's very clear, "If I buy this and I learn this now my sort of salary is going to increase."

Pat:
And it's very similar for you too. If a person becomes a sales engineer or learns how to manage that sort of career better, I mean they're ultimately going to get paid back many, many, many times over. So imagine a $10 book and you'd have to split some of that with Amazon and whatnot versus you know a $100 dollar course or a $200 course, which would be very, very still on the lower end. I mean, you'd have to sell 20 books to cover one of that course. And likely a person who reads a book is less likely to take action than somebody who has invested a couple hundred dollars, if not more, in their career with very clear advice from you. And obviously, an online course is a lot different than just writing a book, but there's higher value there, which is why you could charge more. So I would highly encourage you to go the course route. How does that sit with you?

Ramzi:
That's where I was leading, but let me share my fear with you. And I'm actually here so I'm hoping you actually can help me with it.

Pat:
Yeah, yeah. Let's talk about it.

Ramzi:
So I've actually done situations. So if you look at my homepage, I have "Get a free half hour coaching consulting session with me." And pretty much no one used it. Even those who use it, when I reach out to them to schedule something, they never reach back.

Pat:
Okay. Yeah. Oh, I see. Okay. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Ramzi:
And although other people hit me up out of nowhere to actually help them out, and I do, and I have testimonials from them. Or I need to collect more testimonials if I'm going to be honest with myself. So I'm worried that once I do this, people might not want to join. And also people are in different stages in their careers. Some people are ready to look for an SE job right now, others will not look for another year.

Pat:
Sure. So the worry is you're going to put all this time and effort into building this course and you're using the fact that while you had a place for people to get stuff from you for free and it's not working. Why would people pay for something? Right?

Ramzi:
Well, I'm not worried about putting the effort for the course because I already have the course in my brain. I'm not pre-recording anything. We're going to be live with the people working together. So the effort only comes after they buy. I guess my ego is worried about not being able to sell anything.

Pat:
Gotcha. Okay. I understand. Now, the funny thing is you're doing a beta group which is in and of itself a validation process. And the fact that you're building a slide with them is great because like you said, the work comes if and only if you get customers coming in. And I think that what we need to do is... For me the free half hour coaching consultation session, that's a tough ask. Because it's like, "I don't know you. On the home page is where I get to know you, and I just met you're already asking me to call you? I'm a little bit worried about you selling me something even though I know you don't have anything to sell." But a lot of people are just thinking, "Just get on a call with me," is as a sales call. It's a lot to ask to get on the phone.

Pat:
I mean, here's the thing. At FlynnCon, my event, I sold on stage a program to learn how to build your online course and come to San Diego is a few thousand dollars and I sold 40 spots. And I wanted to get on the phone with everybody first to make sure it was the right fit after they put a deposit in. It was even hard to get on the phone with people who already paid me. Nobody picks up their phone anymore. Getting on a call is a big ask nowadays. People are very protective of their phones. We don't like getting calls from people we don't know. So I think that there was a lot of friction there that led to nobody booking yet, so I just wanted to dispel that myth that this connects to you selling online courses.

Pat:
The benefit though of running a beta program is that you're able to presell this thing to see if you can get sales first before you build it. And that's what you would want to lead to. That would be the first go around. Try to get 10 to 20 people in this first go around at a perhaps a discounted price, discounted off of what it would be eventually. And I think that you'll see that if you nail the messaging, you'll get sales. And that's what I wanted to talk to you about. The later part of this is with this online course, I want you to tell me what the promise is. What am I getting as a result of getting into this course and ultimately what you're teaching me? It's all in your brain. It was going to be a book, but now it's a course. I buy this program. What do I get on the other end?

Ramzi:
Well, I can tell you what it did for me. It changed my life.

Pat:
In what way?

Ramzi:
Well, I went from $30,000 under debt to be debt free in less than a year.

Pat:
And was that a result of getting a new job? Or a salary increase in my job or a promotion?

Ramzi:
Yeah. So sales engineers are some of the highest paid engineers in the industry. The closer you are to the customer, the more you get paid, and sales engineers are fairly close. We work with customers on a day to day basis and my salary doubled. Now, it's not going to happen like that to everybody, but my salary doubled from company A to company B. And then it increased again and now it's increased again. So it's changed my life and people should know about it. At a minimum should know about this role because many people I don't think... Have you heard of sales engineering before?

Pat:
I haven't.

Ramzi:
Yeah. And you're not the only one. I was an engineer and I didn't hear about sales engineering until after I got the role. I got the role but I didn't know what it was.

Pat:
So the question is who would then this course be for? Would this be for people who are already sales engineers who are looking to increase salary to beef up their resume to expand my career? Or would this be specifically for people who aren't sales engineers yet, who will then now get my first sales engineer job? Because it has to be so clear who this is for and what I get on the other end. Because that latter one is interesting because the example I mentioned, because you can go, "Hey, if you are an engineer and you want to expand and move into the sales engineer careers, this course will help you get a sales engineers job. And that often comes with higher pay and a raise," or all that stuff. Right? Very clear. I get this course. That's what I get on the other end.

Pat:
A lot of courses that fail, they fail because they don't nail the messaging. And I think that nailing, and we don't have to nail it here on this call, but it might be the next phase for you is to, now that you know you're going to develop this course, is spending some time truly understanding what the promise is. You get it. You get this course and you know all the things that you're going to give them, but what is life like for them on the other end? I know it's changed your life, but for me, I need to know tangibly how is it going to change my life? Am I going to get a raise? Am I going to get, and I know you can't guarantee certain numbers, but you can say, "This is like my good friend Ramit Sethi. He has a course called, 'Get Your Dream Job.'"

Pat:
And that's the whole point of the course is to take it and at the end you're going to have a job that you're happy with that's going to pay you more. And it's very clear. I know it's for me, or it's not for me. And I think that's the big challenge for you. And when you nail that, everything, selling it, having a person understand it's for them or not becomes just so much easier. All your emails become so much more clear and that's the thing. Because when I asked you what the promise was earlier, you had gone to, "Well, this changed my life." And I'm glad it changed your life. And I'm not trying to be offensive here, but it doesn't matter what it did for you. It matters what it's going to do for me. You have the proof and that's good, but that comes after you understand where my position is and what I need and what I ultimately want, if that makes sense.

Ramzi:
Yeah. I would think it would change your life as well, not you specifically. So the target audience would be engineers who want to become sales engineers, although other people can benefit from it because building a resume is kind of similar for both, but my target audience is that, is the engineers who would want to become sales engineers.

Pat:
Perfect. Okay, so I love that. That's very clear to me. So I can imagine you sending emails out or on your sales page like, "Hey, if you're an engineer and you want to get paid more, I want to teach you how to become a sales engineer. Sales engineer. Dah, dah, dah, dah, whatever. Come join me in this four week course or whatever it is. I'm taking 20 students. Here's the price, here's when you have to make a decision by." And now you have the opportunity to... That's so clear to me. "This is for engineers who want to become sales engineers. By the end of this course, you will have all the tools and the capability and the knowhow and even know where to get your next sales engineers job and ultimately have a higher paying salary." That's so clear. That's the messaging right there.

Ramzi:
Yep. It's a good thing it's recorded.

Pat:
It is recorded. We're going to share this with a lot of people, but I've been studying sales pages a lot recently, especially since helping other people with their online courses. The messaging has to be, you have to really get into the heads of the engineer now. And on that sales page, in your emails, you have to go over, and this would be a big challenge for you, would be to have you understand what are the big objections that those people have. So when you understand those objections, so what is going in the engineer's head when you say, "Oh, I want to show you how to become a sales engineer." If you can lay out every objection they have. Finding a sales engineer job is hard. You can then say, "Even though finding a sales engineering job is difficult, I'm going to show you the tools and the resources to help you get one much easier."

Pat:
A person might go, "Well, it's not going to be worth the effort to find a sales engineering job and learn all this stuff." "No, that's not true. Because sales engineer jobs get paid 20 percent more than regular engineers. You just have to know what to put on your resume and where to find those jobs, which is what I'm going to teach you in this course." So you see how I'm taking an objection and I'm flipping it and going, "No, no, no. I teach you all that in this course. That's not real."

Ramzi:
Right. And would you put that all on a sales page or would you leave that for email?

Pat:
All of it. So essentially the first part of your sales page is really just going, "Hey, if you're an engineer," like, "Hey, pay attention to me. I know what you're going through. I know you've been struggling with long hours. I know that you know that you need to get paid more." All the connections. You haven't even mentioned what the solution is yet. That's point of the first part of a sales page is just you know what they're going through. And you can even tell them like, "I was there too." And that's where you can start to show that you've gone through it with them. And then you go, "Well, this is the solution. It's Sales Engineering Mastery," or whatever the name of the course is. "And in this course I'm going to teach you the tools and the resources you need to land a sales engineering job that will get you paid more and getting the salary that you deserve."

Pat:
Boom. I'm like, "Oh my gosh, this is what I want. I now know that you can speak my language." And then you go into, "Here's what the course entails. Module one is this, module two is this, module three is this." Then after that it's, "Okay, if you're still not sure, here is what might be going through your head. You might be thinking, 'Well, it's not worth the effort to go through a sales engineering job.' No, not true because here is the numbers that show you that sales engineering jobs get paid more." All the objections get listed right after that because now you've enticed them with the solution. You told them about it, but now what are people doing? They're going, "Well, let me find reasons why this doesn't work." That's just naturally what we do. We get excited about something and then we go, "Okay, this is why this is probably not a good idea." But if you can get in front of them before and show them that you know what they're thinking about, but you know exactly how to create a rebuttal for it, I mean then it's golden by there.

Pat:
Then they're just like, "Okay, where do I get in? Tell me where." And I think that your story being so compelling too should show up on there eventually. Perhaps even right at that point going, "Hey, my name is Ramzi. I was an engineer just like you. And two years ago I got a sales engineering job and I was able to double my income and it truly saved my life. And I'm here to show you how I've been able to do this and how I've been able to help others too." So that's just a crash course in sales copy. Then in your emails, you can have one email specifically that's listing all the objections, another email that's about your story to connect them emotional. Another email that goes into more what this program entails, and the benefit is working with you directly and early before this becomes a more expensive online course. And sorry, I've been talking a lot, but I just get really excited about opportunities like this that are right in front of you.

Ramzi:
No, I'm just taking it all in. I do have a question though. Within that sales page, I'm thinking of maybe putting a... I have a webinar. I'll just put in a date, like if you want to get more information or you want the first module, join this webinar and we can get started. Would that be a-

Pat:
I wouldn't put that on your sales page. That's a separate landing page that would then lead people to the sales page, if that makes sense. Because the purpose of the webinar would be to connect with them, to get them to know you, your story, to teach them. Maybe it is module one that you're teaching them or a part of it and then you go, "Okay guys, I gave you a lot. I hope that's helpful. If you want to go deeper with me, I'm doing something special. So by the end of the week I'm going to be recruiting 20 students. I'm going to enroll 20 students in this special program. I've never done this before. And because of that we're offering it at a discounted price. But I want to take you deep and actually have you come out on the other end with a brand new sales engineering job or at least some resumes out there in the world to help you. And if you want to join me, click here. That'll take you to the sales page where you can sign up now." So you see how the webinar is sort of set people up to go to that sales page?

Ramzi:
Yeah, I don't know if I can have time to ask you one more question.

Pat:
Yeah, one more question.

Ramzi:
All right, well it's a short question but might be a long answer. So how do you figure out what pricing to do?

Pat:
Yes, so there's a couple of ways to go about that. Number one, you could see what already exists out there in the same, if not similar industries, as far as what is being offered and how much and what's all entailed. So you can kind of start there. But at the same time, I also want you to pay attention to, well, what value are you actually providing here? Because you're helping change a person's life. You're helping change a person's salary and career, and you could charge several hundred dollars for that. And I think that typically for things like this, you might see anywhere between $299 to up to $999 for a price point for something like this. And for the beta, you might want to start a little bit lower just to kind of test it out, and then you can increase the price point after you get validation that this is worth that.

Pat:
Typically, people are going to undersell because they're worried. But again, this is huge what you're providing for people. And it would also mean that you're going to have a student who's going to come in that's likely prepared to do the work at a higher price point. Because I know a lot of people who create similar things and they sell it for $27, nobody does the work. And so you're actually doing a service by charging more in a way, because you're having more people put more skin in the game, and they're going to be more likely to do it. And again, remember you're, you're not just selling how-to whatever. You're selling a salary increase, you're selling a much better lifestyle on the other end and there's value there. How are you feeling?

Ramzi:
I'm good. I've seen other companies who only do a resume, you send them information, they create a resume for you for like $700.

Pat:
$700? Yeah, dude. So, I mean you could charge like $699 and go, "Hey, these companies here, they'll charge you the same amount for just the resume, and I'm teaching you how to do that plus this plus this plus this." I mean that's a steal at that point.

Ramzi:
I still want it to be accessible to those who the whole reason they're doing this is to get a better job, just so they can pay for stuff like this.

Pat:
And there's a balance there between charging too much and being out of reach, but also charging too little and not seeming valuable enough. And again, remember you're adding more than what many other people are doing. So I'm excited. Do you mind if we reach back out to you a little bit later to see sort of how you've been going, what you've implemented, to just kind of get aware of you're at now kind of thing down the road?

Ramzi:
Has anyone ever said no to that?

Pat:
No, but I ask everybody just for permission, so that's good.

Ramzi:
Yes, yes. Sure.

Pat:
Well, I want to hold you accountable so we'll reach back in 2020 to see how you've been going on and just keep up the good work. Hopefully this gives you a good headstart.

Ramzi:
Yeah. Thanks for your time. This is very good.

Pat:
Thanks man. Appreciate it. One more time. Where can people go to learn more about what you got going on?

Ramzi:
Yeah, so wethesalesengineers.com is the website. We the Sales Engineers on LinkedIn and WeTheSEs on Twitter, although LinkedIn is a lot better at Ramzi Marjaba on LinkedIn.

Pat:
Fantastic. I appreciate it and good luck to you.

Ramzi:
Thank you.

Pat:
All right. I hope you enjoyed that coaching call between myself and Ramzi from, again, wethesalesengineers.com. And I hope that sparked some ideas in your mind about different areas of monetization that you could focus on. Definitely recommend focusing on one at a time, but planning for the future and thinking of what might come next and what's the next thing in the ascension ladder, one product leading to the next or what the next second-best product would be, is always best to start thinking about ahead of time and instead of just kind of taking the business on a week to week basis without any planning at all, which is what a lot of us do.

Pat:
So hopefully this was helpful for you. If it was, please consider leaving a review on Apple podcasts if that's possible. And please consider subscribing if you haven't already. Now likely you might also be interested in potentially coming on the show just like Ramzi did today to get coached by me too, to help your business but also help everybody else who may have similar problems too. And if that's the case, then all you have to do is go to AskPat.com, find the button to fill out the application there and I may select you in the future. It's not guaranteed cause we get a lot of inquiries coming in, but I do read them and we select them and sometimes it might take months, but we might reach back out and it's not going to happen obviously if you don't do it.

Pat:
So go there, send in your inquiries, and I look forward to potentially serving you here in the show, just like Ramzi today. So beyond that, just keep crushing it. Keep doing amazing things. Head on over to FlynnCon.com if you want to join me and several entrepreneurs here in San Diego later this year. Again, that's FlynnCon.com, more information there. And yeah, keep rocking it. As always, #TeamFlynn for the win. Peace.