AP 1119: My Sales Are Slow. How Can I Ramp Them Up?

AskPat 1119: My Sales are Slow. How Can I Ramp Them Up?

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Pat Flynn:
What's up everybody, Pat Flynn here. Welcome to Episode 1119 of AskPat 2.0. You're about to listen to a coaching call between myself and an entrepreneur just like you. Today, we're speaking with Megan-Kuhar, from Megan-Kuhar.com. That's not actually her name, but you know what I mean. Megan is a brand strategy coach for musicians, which I think is awesome. I think a lot of musicians and "starving artists" could use a lot of help, and I love that people like Megan are stepping up to help. She's also a mom. She just does so much stuff. You'll hear her credentials right here at the beginning here.

Pat:
Her website, Megan-Kuhar.com. Today, we're talking with her about that brand, as well as how do we ramp up sales? Sales are a little bit slow. She's getting started. She has a course. She has a book. She has these other things that are going on. By the end of this, you're going to hear a complete excited plan that we're both excited about, and some ways that we could use the things that she already has to generate more income, and even help more people. Make sure you stick around. This is a great one, and Megan is awesome. Check her out. Here we go.

Pat:
Megan, welcome to AskPat 2.0. Thanks so much for being here.

Megan Kuhar:
Hey, thanks so much for having me.

Pat:
Yeah, this will be a lot of fun. Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and what it is that you do.

Megan:
Yeah, absolutely. My name is Megan Kuhar, and I am a brand strategy coach for musicians. I'm also a Professor of Music Technology at a university conservatory of music. I'm a percussionist, an audio engineer, a videographer, social media manager, mom. I have a lot of titles.

Pat:
Superwoman.

Megan:
Yeah.

Pat:
Love it. The music thing really speaks to me. I was in marching band and wind ensemble, and jazz band, and orchestra, and steel drum band, and all this stuff too. I just want to talk music with you, but I also want to help you out. Anyway, where could we learn more before we get started?

Megan:
It's at Megan-Kuhar.com That's Megan with no H, and my last name is K-U-H-A-R.

Pat:
Got it. Okay, Megan, no H, K-U-H-A-R. You're a brand strategist for musicians, is what it comes down to right?

Megan:
Yeah. I kind of have this unique blend of technology and music, and marketing. I actually teach all of the music majors at the school I work at about building websites, and making podcasts, and videos, and defining their brands, and just kind of helping to introduce them to entrepreneurship; because, as musicians, they really are entrepreneurs. It's a classically trained conservatory, so it's just not really that heard of to talk about business. It's becoming more and more important in a lot of schools now. That's just something that I've been working on, and I love working with musicians to help them, to just empower them to be more entrepreneurial. That's kind of the goal.

Pat:
That is epic. I think that serves a huge need, and you are absolutely right, musicians, artists of all kinds—we're all entrepreneurs. That's great. Tell me, what's on your mind?

Megan:
I am hoping to really grow my online business so I can help more people. I have a podcast. It's called The Fan Finder Podcast, and I have a course and e-book right now, and I offer one on one coaching. I'm just having difficulty making regular sales. They just trickle in here and there, and I get a lot of messages of support. People love and need what I'm offering. They are really enthusiastic about it, but I don't know, I wonder if it's just because a lot of times musicians are constantly being devalued. They don't get paid well. They're not making money. They sort of translate that to other things, as well.

Megan:
I don't know, they're just hesitant to buy. I'm struggling with wondering how to . . . Maybe I'm not packaging things well. Maybe they don't want a whole entire course. I don't know. I'm just kind of struggling with making regular sales and really growing my business.

Pat:
Tell me really quick, where are your current sales coming from?

Megan:
I have sold seven seats in my course, and I have one, one-on-one coaching client right now that's a regular client. Then I've sold about 30 e-books. That's all I've . . . I'm saying that's all, but it's great that I've done that. It's just-

Pat:
Oh, for sure.

Megan:
It feels like not a lot, yeah.

Pat:
Right, I think there's a lot more that could happen, but at the same time, those are real humans whose lives are now being changed. It shows there are people out there who would buy. It would be a different conversation if it was like zero, zero, zero.

Megan:
Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah.

Pat:
Okay, have you done any research on your current customers, on what made them pull the trigger? What made them want to reach out to you? What was it about your work, your course, your e-book that got them to really take that credit card out and transact with you? Have you done any research on just trying to understand why you, why them, why now?

Megan:
Yeah. I've done some research first, to try and talk to people that aren't my customers as well. I have asked my customers, all of them, about how they were feeling before, how they were feeling after, and why they wanted to dive into this. Most of them said that the emotions that they were feeling before were that they were just really confused and out of control. They felt like they resonated with me as a person. They can see that I have experience, so a lot of them have come from Instagram. That's where I show up a lot, and on my podcast. I don't really know what it is about me specifically. I don't think I've asked them that about my personality.

Megan:
They all have said that they were really resonating with the content that I was putting out there. So, I don't know if that answers that question.

Pat:
No, it does. It does. I think that that's important to know. On the flip side, what were people saying who didn't buy?

Megan:
"I don't have money," or "I don't have time." A lot of them are just thinking that they're going to figure it out themselves. I've gotten people saying, "I can't afford it right now," things like that. Of course, I definitely understand, but yeah, that's kind of the majority of the responses.

Pat:
Okay. I mean, those are pretty typical responses for anybody in any niche who's selling anything. What that really means is, that they're not quite yet . . . "I can't afford it right now," is just code for, "It's not worth it for me to spend my money for what I think is going to be there for me on the other end." Either what's on the other end is, "I don't know what's being offered here," or like they were saying, "This is going to take too much time. I paid for this, now I have to dedicate all this time." Part of the understanding on why courses sell really well is because, although a lot of that information is even potentially free out there, courses can package things into a way where we can things done much faster and quicker without confusion.

Pat:
I think this ties together with what you said about the people who had already purchased was, perhaps they were in that mode of already trying to figure something out, and they just couldn't so they were willing to purchase something to help them through that process. It's just making me curious to know whether or not the people who were even in the process of . . . Like the people who didn't purchase, were they even looking for something like that, at that point? If we could understand a little bit more about what were they doing right before, then we might be able to understand a little bit more about well, why didn't they buy, versus just well it's not worth my money right now, versus maybe there's a little bit deeper of an objection.

Pat:
One thing that can help with those people, help mobilize those who . . . Actually, are those people that you reached out to, were they on an email list? How were you able to reach out to them?

Megan:
The ones that already are customers?

Pat:
The ones who didn't purchase.

Megan:
Oh, I am in a couple of Facebook groups for female musician/music industry people. I like to reach out on those groups and kind of survey them sometimes. I'll get into conversations with people on Facebook about that. Also, I have discovery calls. I've had a few of those, where people have come on and talked to me for like 15 minutes, and kind of shared some struggles. Those have been going pretty well. The first few, I got—that was great. I started working with them, but yeah, that's kind of what it is. It's been like a social media reach out.

Megan:
I have had not very good success with my mailing list. I have about 350 people, and I get crickets on that.

Pat:
Crickets.

Megan:
Yeah.

Pat:
These discovery calls are really interesting. Are they just private calls, and they just kind of went off and nothing happens to them after?

Megan:
It depends. I have an e-book, and the e-book comes with a free 30-minute coaching call. They buy the e-book, and it's kind of like a mindset workbook. They go through that, and then they get on the phone with me. We talk through some of their struggles and all of that. Then I usually communicate with them after, personally, manually, through email. Not through a mailing list. So, I don't have a sequence for that set up right now. That's kind of how that goes. Then the other ones are just if people DM me on Instagram or Facebook asking for my help with something, usually I'll try and direct them to a discovery call and talk to them on the phone instead of-

Pat:
And you do that for free.

Megan:
Through message. Fifteen minute ones, yeah, I do that for free.

Pat:
That's incredible. That's massive value right there that you're offering.

Megan:
Yeah, totally. Yeah, definitely really helpful because it gives them a chance to talk through. They pour out their souls. They really are appreciative of talking about what's going on. Usually, I try and give them one quick suggestion and then I talk to them about how we can further work on it.

Pat:
My brain goes to, and this is something that was really funny that happened after this podcast came out, AskPat. Ask Pat turned into a coaching session, just kind of how we're doing it right now. Ever since I started doing it in this format, I've had loads of people reach out and go, "Pat, can I have personal coaching? Can I get into something where you could teach me personally what you just taught that person?" Because everybody's listening to this, they get a taste of what it's like for you and I to work together, and then they want me to work with them.

Pat:
It's interesting because you're doing these discovery calls for free. One idea might be to take these calls onto your podcast so that people can hear you actually coaching people live, and get a sense of what's it like to work with you, and get even more of your personality. Coaching is kind of scary, and I would imagine that musicians aren't really . . . They're not waking up in the morning and going, "I can't wait to get coached about business." Because that's scary, and that's not what they're into. But if they could hear how calming it can be, and how you have helped others, and maybe even bringing the people on who you've helped before just to kind of share their story of before and after a little bit, I think that could really encourage people to make that jump with you and essentially you could sponsor your own podcast with your own products to lead people into that.

Pat:
"Hey, if you enjoyed this coaching call, I do one of these discovery calls every week with somebody at random who's on my Instagram, so make sure you follow me there. I might select you to come on, and we could chat through your business and how we can brand your music. But if you want to work with me one on one, there's a couple of ways you can do that. I have a coaching thing, you can check on my online course here, or if you just want to start simple, you could check out my e-book." Then the podcast becomes the hub for what's like . . . Almost like Costco sample sizing of working with you that everybody can then go, "Okay, I want that for myself now."

Megan:
Yeah, that sounds awesome.

Pat:
On your podcast currently, which I love the name by the way, what do you do on there right now?

Megan:
Every other week I have either a solo episode, where I kind of talk through a pain point or some sort of common thing that I hear people asking me about. On the other weeks, I interview somebody in the industry, like other specific coaches or musicians. I had a music therapist on, who wrote a children's book. I like to talk about entrepreneurship, just giving examples of what you could be doing as an entrepreneur musician. I really like talking to people that are doing really unique things as musicians in their career. It's really great inspiration for the people that I want to work with, I think.

Pat:
I think that you could add on this sort of spotlighting your community element to a podcast, and make them the hero. A hero goes through struggles, and a hero comes out the other end even stronger. A hero inspires others. You are just the guide. You're Yoda. You're making Luke Skywalkers, and everybody wants to be Luke Skywalker. So, they go to Yoda. They come to you. I think that could be a real interesting way for you to use the podcast that you already have, and your voice, and sort of the emotion that comes with that. Also, that can help drive, like I was saying, if you use Instagram as the sort of point of initial contact with people, that can become a very active place as well to help support all this.

Pat:
Then, of course you can just start going, "Okay, last week's coaching call winner was Judy. Here's the episode where she's on talking about her story." Then what happens is, people go, "Wow, I have the same struggles as Judy, and look what she's done for her. Maybe I should reach out and see if I can get some help too." Or, "Oh, I can't afford the coaching, because that's a little bit too high of a price, but I'll get the e-book at least to start," or, "Oh, great. I got the e-book. I want more. I'll go to the course from there." I think that can be a really interesting customer journey for you.

Megan:
Yeah.

Pat:
What are the price points of your products right now? I see the course, e-book and the one on one. I'd love to just get a sense of what the price ranges are there.

Megan:
The course is $333.00. I just picked three things because -

Pat:
I like that number.

Megan:
I thought it was cool.

Pat:
That's my favorite number, three.

Megan:
Yeah, it was the number I chose because I felt like it was not so little that my time was de-valued, but it'd feel like it was too much for them to contribute. Then the e-book is $37.00, and one on one coaching varies, but for one 90-minute call, it's $255.00, and then there's a three month program that's $750.00. I'm saying that out loud, and I'm feeling like it's too little.

Pat:
It is too little.

Megan:
It's hard because people aren't even paying for that.

Pat:
But here's the thing, this is the trick. They don't have to pay for that. The higher your coaching price is, the more value your course and e-book become. Does this make sense?

Megan:
Right, because that... Yeah, because the course is the entry point to the coaching.

Pat:
Right, it's a price anchor. So, what people see is on your offer page you go, "Now hey, you can work with me one on one. I come at a premium. I'm $999.00 for three calls over the next four weeks, but if you can't afford that, I do have an all-access course that you can get access to right now for as low as-" and where I'm going with this is, "As low as $120.00 per month for three months." That's because it's a price plan, because you told me a lot of people were saying, "Well, I can't afford it." Well, you could create a price plan to make it more affordable.

Megan:
Yeah, I do have that. Yeah. Yeah.

Pat:
Okay, what's the price plan?

Megan:
I think it is exactly what you just said, yeah.

Pat:
Oh, serious? Like $120.00?

Megan:
I'm blanking. Wait, what is it? Let me look. I have a couple of different . . . I'm forgetting off the top of my head.

Pat:
That's all right.

Megan:
That's terrible.

Pat:
No, it's all good. It's all good. Maybe they save a little bit if they go one time.

Megan:
It's under $200.00 for three monthly payments.

Pat:
Cool, so we're on the same page.

Megan:
Yeah.

Pat:
When people go, "Whoa, $1,000.00, I can't afford that," but, "Less than $200.00, I can get access to her brain all at once right now." That's a lot more attractive. Then the e-book in there is sort of the basic level—you get what you get, and then you don't get anything else after that. That, to me, becomes a really great thing. You can even mention, "Hey guys, my coaching is $1,000.00 for a three month period, but I'm going to offer a 15-minute call for free every month," for example. "So, to qualify, use your favorite emoji below, and then I'll select somebody at random to come on the show and I'll help you out."

Pat:
Now, that's a $100.00 opportunity, because the full coaching thing is $999.00, but then people who want the coaching but then can't afford it, can see that you have this other thing that the price is justified now because of that higher coaching thing. The cool thing is, some people . . . If somebody's going to spend $750.00 with you, they're probably going to spend $999.00. At that level, you're probably going to get actually a few people at $999.00 or $1,000.00 anyway. It's going to be a much higher quality person than somebody that you would coach in that manner for three months at $100.00.

Pat:
The goal would be I think to push people into the course, and it seems like that's what most people are resonating with right now anyway, plus the e-book, of course. Another thing you could do, is you could do what's called an ascension from the e-book to the course. You could say if people get the e-book—you can have your emails working for you. You can automate this, or you don't have to—But, you could follow up with the people who have the e-book and go, "Hey, if you got a lot of value out of that, but you're looking for more, I go this much more in depth in my course. For the next week I am doing a sale for my course for you that just removes the price of the e-book as a discount."

Pat:
So, you can actually get the course minus $37.00 for just this next week only, kind of thing. It can be to make people feel like they're getting that book for free essentially in that manner. There are just so many cool things you can do when you have multiple products like this. I think there's huge opportunity there, and I think connecting what you could actually do for people and how you've helped others already, and people hearing your voice on your show, I think that you could start to see some volume come in.

Megan:
Yeah, I wonder too, because one of the things I was thinking about, and I closed the doors because I thought maybe scarcity is the problem. It's just always there, and they are not ever wanting to jump. I was thinking of doing quarterly enrollments for the course, but I do kind of like the idea if the e-book is happening all the time, then the course should be happening all the time, because they should be able to go through a sequence after they get the e-book and buy the course.

Pat:
Right, and I think the scarcity is you have only a limited amount of time to get this discount, since you seem to be very warm and excited about it, before the price goes back up for you, or the bonus goes away, or the free consultation call opportunity doesn't happen anymore for you. Whatever it is that goes away. It doesn't have to be price.

Megan:
Mm-hmm (affirmative), okay. Yeah, that makes sense.

Pat:
Cool. How are you feeling after all this?

Megan:
Pretty good. I'm wondering about messaging too. I don't like to be that kind of person that is, "You need this."

Pat:
A dirty salesman.

Megan:
"You should buy." Yeah.

Pat:
Yeah.

Megan:
There's just a lot of those people in the coaching world. I don't know, I want to respect that they are artists and musicians that don't make a lot of money sometimes. I don't know, how can I give them that urgency without being that way? I plan my social media content a whole month in advance every month, and I have really high-value content. I share a lot of commentary about common questions I get, and things like that. I'm just wondering, am I sharing too much, first of all? Second of all, I don't know how to transition them from that to wanting to buy through social media especially, because that's a lot of how I do it.

Pat:
No, I don't think there's necessarily a such a thing as giving away too much. I think that what needs to happen is really focusing on, "Okay, well when we give away stuff, no matter how big or small, or how much or little, how do we connect people to the next step so that they can go even deeper?" Or, how they can get more access, or how they can get something that they just can't get on social media, for example, which is a tailorized plan, or a personalized plan, or access to you, for example. Those are things that just can't be offered in that scenario.

Pat:
A couple of things come to mind. Number one, however you just said what you just said was perfect, meaning when you were like, "Hey, I know there's a lot of coaches out there. I don't want to be that dirty salesman. I want to respect you as an artist, and I know many of you don't throw your money around with things that aren't helpful for you, which is why I made this helpful for you, and why I have a guarantee to go with it, so that in case after 29 days you're in the course and you're like this isn't for me, you can get your money back with no questions asked."

Pat:
I think what you just said, and how it up front you were about it would make people feel a little bit relieved and help them realize that you are trying to be different. You're not trying to be like that. Then you can add on top of that and position it as something like, "Hey, I don't want to be that salesman who just says hey you have to buy now or else. I don't want to be like that. I respect you as an artist, and I respect you as somebody who may or may not be struggling with your finances. I want to help you. Although I don't want to be that person, I also know that many people need a reason to buy right now or else they're never going to make this happen."

Pat:
"If that's you, I'm giving you that opportunity right now. There is a special bonus with this course right now that you have access to, that I have to limit, because it involves a 30-minute consultation call with me, and I can only do so many. Which is why I'm rewarding those who get in now with this. I can't possibly offer this forever, which is why it goes away after Tuesday when the bonus goes away and the price goes back up," for example. That's just a positioning exercise, I guess you could call it. You can say those things and position it in a way where it actually is favorable to you.

Megan:
I guess my e-book currently comes with a call. I feel like maybe I should get rid of the call with the e-book and move it to a bonus for early adopters of the course.

Pat:
Totally. I would move the call bonus to the course level, if and only if, people purchase within a certain time period because then if you offer that call, it devalues the $999.00 coaching that you offer, right?

Megan:
Yeah.

Pat:
The other thing, I was going to say you could have a $37.00 book, then you can have $199.00 book plus consultation call, and then course is just like the next level after that, which is the course and everything in there, plus the consultation call, which people are going to go, "Well, why would I pay $199.00 for the book and call? I might as well just get the course and the call altogether for just a little bit more." It's just a numbers display game in a way. I think to make it easy, I would just move that bonus to the course if you're going to do that anyway.

Megan:
Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Okay.

Pat:
Cool. I think we have a few action items, plus a lot of things to think about, with sort of how you might want to position things in the future. I'm encouraged. I'm excited. I hope you're excited too.

Megan:
Yeah, I totally am. Thank you. I love the idea of having them on my podcast. I think that's going to be really fun. I'm thinking of a couple of people right now that I can probably reach out to and have them on. Hopefully, that'll be a really support for the community, like you were saying. I'm reading Superfans too, so that's making me think of that.

Pat:
Oh, yeah, that's exactly it. I think that it can become this sort of fun thing in the culture of your brand. It's just like, "Oh yeah, she coaches live on her show. You can't help but fall in love with her and want more of that, with Megan. Be careful, because you're going to want to hire her after that," kind of thing. It becomes a very shareable thing, for sure.

Megan:
Yeah, totally. I love it.

Pat:
Awesome. Good luck to you. Hopefully, we can follow up with you if that'd be okay, to see how things go. One more time, where can people go to learn more about you and your business?

Megan:
Megan-Kuhar.com is my website. My podcast is theFan Finder Podcast, so you can find me there.

Pat:
Awesome. We'll have all the links in the show notes. Megan, you're awesome. Keep up the great work.

Megan:
Thank you so much, Pat.

Pat:
Thanks, bye.

Pat:
All right, I hope you enjoyed that coaching call with Megan. You can find her, once again, at Megan-Kuhar.com. Good luck to you, Megan. I love what you're doing. I'm in full support of all of it. I know everybody listening is as well.

Pat:
Since you're here, if you are interested in now getting coached just like Megan did today for me, all you have to do is go to AskPat.com, fill out the application on that page, answer a few questions, and I might pick you in the future. Go ahead, AskPat.com. Of course, if you'd like to leave a review for AskPat, that would be super amazing. I read them all. I get them all in one spot, no matter what country you're in. They just make me so happy. The ones that aren't so great, I use to improve and fire myself up so I can improve and get better for you over time.

Pat:
So, if you do truly believe this is a five star show, don't give me a one to try and make me get even better. Let me know. I get fired up either way. Anyway, maybe I just completely sabotaged myself there. Anyway, I appreciate y'all. You're amazing. Keep up the great work. Thank you for the reviews in advance. Make sure you hit subscribe if you haven't already.

Pat:
Cheers. Take care. As always, #TeamFlynnforthewin. Peace.