AP 0900: How Many Downloads Do I Need for Podcast Sponsorship?

AskPat 900 Episode Transcript

Pat Flynn: Hey, what's up everybody? Pat Flynn here and welcome to Episode 900 of AskPat. 900.

We are 100 episodes away from the big four digits, 1,000, with five episodes leading up to that where I'm going to be giving away $1,000 each episode. It's going to be insane. It's going to be awesome. Your first clue will be available to you at the end of this episode. Like I have told people before, if this is your first time listening in, you're in luck because there will be many clues happening between now and Episode 1000. Not every episode, but many episodes, and I'll let you know when there are clues that typically happen at the end of episodes, if they are there. They will all combine and lead into something where you can then qualify, leading up to the episode number 1000 and potentially earn $1,000 one of those five times that you're going to be able to win during that week. It's going to be awesome. Your first clue will be available at the end of this episode. So, why don't we just continue with the show as normal?

Today, I'm excited because we have a question coming in from Jordan, but before we get to that, of course, I want to mention today's sponsor, which is ZipRecruiter. So, if you're hiring anybody, it can be one of the most difficult processes in the world, because not only is it hard to put your job description out there into all the different places that it should be to find out the best candidates, but screening people and getting people come in your way and just understanding who's the best fit for you and what it is you're looking for. I mean, it's hard, so ZipRecruiter should be on your team. What you can do with ZipRecruiter—which, by the way, you can use for free by going to ZipRecruiter.com/pat—it allows you to post your job description in a hundred-plus different places with a single click of a button. It also help you screen the candidates, and in one interface it allows you to see exactly who you should potentially hire and who you could talk to without having to worry about emails coming in your way or without having to worry about calls coming into your office or any of that stuff. It removes all the headache that comes with recruitment and it puts it all into their platform for you. So, check it out for free, like I said, ZipRecruiter.com/pat. All right, thanks so much. Here is today's question from Jordan.

Jordan: Hey Pat. My name is Jordan and I have a question for you regarding how somebody with a smaller listenership for their podcast looks at their stats and how they should position those stats to potential sponsors. So, I have two podcasts actually that are focused on the Instagram community. One of them is a daily show where I'm critiquing the photos of an Instagram user each day. Those are about 10 minutes per episode and they get about 300 downloads per episode. The second podcast is a weekly show where I'm interviewing an Instagram influencer. Those get about 2500 downloads per episodes. So, between the two, I'm getting about 15-16,000 downloads per month.

Now, I said small listenership. I understand that I'm in the 80th percentile of downloads, so I'm super grateful for the audience. When I say small, I mean, the articles that I've read regarding the subject seem to be geared toward those with tens of thousands of downloads. So, they say that the sponsors look at per thousand downloads for potential sponsorships. I don't really fall into that category yet, at least I don't think I do. Maybe I do, but that's where you come in to help me understand how to look at these numbers and what a potential sponsor could be considering. Also, do you have any resource recommendations for this particular subject for people with smaller podcast audiences? I think that a lot of people out there would benefit from finding a resource like that. I haven't found one that anybody's created. So, any suggestions you have would be excellent. Thanks so much, Pat, for all you do.

Pat Flynn: Hey Jordan. Thank you so much for your question. So, congrats on getting the great numbers. Like you said, those are relatively small compared to what advertisers might be looking for, but actually quite big when it comes to what most people are getting. So, congratulations. That's awesome. I think the subject matter is great and I love that you're taking this thing that's very visual and turning it into a podcast. There's still a lot to learn from things like that. I think a lot of people hesitate to start a podcast in a space that's so visual like photography and other things like that when really there's a ton of opportunity there. So, congratulations. That's awesome. Now let me tell you some numbers.

Companies that will find advertisers for you, there're many of them out there, agencies and things like that. They are typically looking to work with people who have over 50,000 downloads or more per month combined with all their episodes, so you're not quite there yet. I wouldn't worry about that at all, because actually there's a lot of benefits to not going down that route of using those third parties to help you because you're going to be sharing some of the profits with them and you are going to be dealing with other people and it's going to . . . I mean, it can have an effect on your show and the quality of your show. Now I will say, with those numbers, even if you had half of those numbers, even if you didn't have more than 1,000 per month, you can still attract advertisers who perfectly align with your audience. That's where the power of what you've been able to build comes in, and that is an amazing targeted audience who you know exactly what they're looking for. If you can find a company that aligns with that audience that you've built, well, then it's a match made in heaven and they likely pay a premium to get in front of your audience, even though the numbers aren't necessarily there. If they can even see some results coming in, then it will prove it even more to them and they might be more likely to work with you and want to work with you versus somebody who has like 100,000 downloads who is just—the audience is all over the place. So, you can see how what you built, even though it's so niched, can be very beneficial.

And yes, the payment model typically for advertisers and sponsors is based on a CPM model or cost-per-thousand downloads model. Now let's do some math. Let's just make the 15,000 you made a nice round number. Let's lower it. Let's make it 10,000. Advertisers will typically pay anywhere between $20 and $45 CPM depending on all that you have to offer, the targeted audience, and we'll talk more about those things in a second. Let's say $30 CPM for 10,000 downloads a month. I mean, that's $300 right there that people are paying per episode or per spot on your larger show. Now it's typically going to be on a per-show basis unless you were to make it be kind of a combined, which you might be able to actually charge a little bit more if you get kind of a sponsorship in both podcasts at the same time.

What I meant by other resources or other assets is not just the listenership, but it's also potentially spots on the website within the show notes on a resource page, email list mentions, or maybe you do videos as well. You can mention these companies there too. You can add to the package. That's the cool thing. It's your business and it's your podcast. You can create whatever package you want to offer and whatever you're comfortable with. So, that's the cool thing. You can create it in any way that you want and you can actually command these prices instead of just hope. It's going to take some experimentation, but this is where it's going to be feeling like a real business now.

I remember when I first started doing advertising in my blog on GreenExamAcademy.com back in 2008. This was even before I launched my ebook, the one that kind of really set things off for me. I started reaching out to companies that I had a relationship with through my experience taking that exam. I said, “Hey, I would love to just put you on my website and sponsor and advertise.” Typically, it was a flat fee, but once I discovered I had this traffic, I was then able to command a larger price point. I typically offered deals too. That's another aspect of it too. You can say, “Hey, I charge typically $400 per spot”—and I guess, actually, my numbers are a little bit off. It's not $300 per episode, but combined total would be $300 a month, but that's still a great thing because they're paying on a CPM model like I said, and I was getting confused because I thought it was that many downloads per episode. It's per month, which is still fine. I mean, $300 is a large injection of money if you're not having any of that money in the first place, right? But you might be able to command a little bit more by saying, “Hey, you know what? I typically charge $300 a month, but if you sign a contract for six months, we'll do $250 a month.” So, essentially you get like a month free, I think, if my math is correct, that's kind of cool because you'll be getting—what is it? $2500 instead of . . . Anyway, my math is off today, but you see what I mean. Sorry. It's late. I'm staying up a little bit later. We had a launch last week. Excuses, excuses, excuses. Anyway, you know what I mean. So, here's the thing. Numbers will work in your favor if your target audience is there, which it seems like they are. Test it, but also make sure to offer deals, if there is a possibility to do so. So, I guess the big question is, who might you want to advertise on your show? That's the benefit of working with other companies, as they'll find those advertisers for you, but a lot of times those advertisers don't align with your show. If you have a relationship with an existing product that you use and promote already, that's where I would start.

Here's the thing, advertising and sponsorships isn't the only model out there. You might be able to benefit from, actually, affiliate marketing. I know a lot of people who make a lot more money affiliate marketing versus actually getting sponsors to pay on a CPM model. I also know a lot of people who have their own products as well, Joshua. So, I don't know if you're thinking about creating products as well, but that could be a much more profitable way and a much more evergreen way to start to produce some passive income for you, because remember, the thing about sponsorships is when you mention another product or an advertiser, it's taking people away from your site. Here's the thing: Once you come out with that podcast episode, it's there until you end up changing it in the future if you wanted to, but most people don't. They just keep it there. So, that's why people love podcast advertising as advertisers because they know that that show's going to be on there evergreen for a long time. They might be just paying for one spot, but that's spot's going to be there for good. When they get new listeners, when their show starts to grow, I mean, there's going to be more people coming in and hearing that spot. So, you got to make sure you charge a premium for that spot, especially if your targeted audience is there.

So, Jordan, thank you so much for the question. I think I said, “Joshua,” earlier. Sorry about that. Again, it's late. Anyway, Jordan, thank you so much for the question. I appreciate you. I want to wish you all the best, and keep me posted on how this goes.

And hey, just thank you so much for this question. I think it's going to be really helpful for a lot of people and there are going to be a lot of resources out there for podcasters. I'm actually creating one myself and it's called Power-Up Podcasting. It's for those of you who haven't yet started to podcast, but you want to get started on the right foot. You can actually check that out at PowerUpPodcasting.com. It's coming out in two weeks actually. So, make sure to sign up for the wait list there so you'll be the first to know.

Anyway, I also want to give you that clue. A lot of people I think are listening to this show because they know that there's a clue that's going to happen and that clue relates to a bigger picture, which then helps you enter a drawing later on if you get the right answer. So, these clues are all going to add up over time. You're not going to hear clues in every episode of AskPat from this point forward, between now and Episode 1000 or actually Episode 995, because the last five episodes are the ones where I'm going to give away the thousand dollars per episode.

Anyway, first let me end this episode with a quote. Here's that quote and that is, “Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.” And your first clue leading up to Episode 1000, is the author of that quote. Thanks so much. I appreciate you. Write that down if you know the answer to that, the author of that quote. And I'll be adding some more clues in future episodes of AskPat leading up to Episode 1000.

Guys, thank you so much for being here with me today. I appreciate you, and I look forward to seeing you in the next episode. Bye.