AP 1173: I Offer Something for Free, but How Do I Make More Money?

AP 1173: I Offer Something for Free, but How Do I Make More Money?

Pat Flynn:
What's up, everybody? Pat Flynn here and welcome to episode 1173 of AskPat 2.0. You're about to listen to a coaching call between myself and an entrepreneur just like you.

Today, we're talking with Chris from Doobert.com. Doobert.com is really cool. It's D-O-O-B-E-R-T.com. Think about it kind of like an Uber, but for animals and rescuing animals. It's helping you help animals, essentially. It's really neat. You'll hear Chris describe it in just a minute, he does a much better job.

What's really cool is we spend the time just brainstorming, going back and forth on different ideas on how he might be able to begin to start really turning this into a business. Because right now, it's pretty much just full on passion project here to help people. And it's working, but it's not working in the sense that, well, there's not a ton of income coming in, and there's people to support, and that kind of stuff.

We brainstorm, we find some ideas, and we make it rock. You'll hear Chris get really excited about a lot of the ideas that we come up with together here. So sit back, relax. Maybe you'll share these same ideas. Maybe you'll have some new ones, and you can pass them over to Doobert. Yeah, Doobert.com. Here is Chris Roy.

Chris, welcome to AskPat 2.0. Thanks so much for being here.

Chris Roy:
Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Pat:
I'm excited to learn about you too. Why don't you start off a little bit about who you are and what you do?

Chris:
Yeah. I'm Chris Roy. I'm the founder of Doobert.com. The best way I can describe Doobert is it's kind of like a volunteer Uber and Airbnb. It's targeted at animal rescues. We have lots of volunteers, over 30,000 volunteers across the US and Canada. They sign up to be transporters, so hence the Uber side of things, and also to be foster homes for animals, hence the Airbnb side of things.

They are a part of the software. Then we also have animal shelters and animal rescues that are on the other side of the platform. So a multi-sided platform. They have tools and things that are engaging those volunteers. They can plot a transport, it'll automatically notify the right volunteers, help them sign up, et cetera, et cetera.

Pat:
That's so cool. How'd you get into that?

Chris:
I stumbled into it myself. One of my other passions is aviation. I'm a pilot. Somebody asked me one day, probably about 10 years ago, "Would you go pick up these animals, fly down from Milwaukee, where I'm at, to Kentucky?" It was an excuse to go flying and I get to play with dogs. Sign me up.

That was my entry into this. Then I learned more about the problem. As a tech guy in my day job, I decided to try and make this a little bit easier.

Pat:
Cool. That is so awesome. How do you spell the URL again, just so we can all find it?

Chris:
Sure. Doobert.com.

Pat:
Head there now. Cool. That sounds great. This has been up for quite a bit of time, you said, I think. How can I help you? Where do you feel I can provide the most value for you today?

Chris:
Yeah. One of the things I've really struggled with is we've done a great job signing up volunteers. It's always that chicken and egg, right? We started with zero volunteers or organizations. Like I said, now we have 30,000 volunteers and over 5,000 organizations that have signed up.

One of the things I'm trying to do, as I start to scale this, is to figure out a monetization approach strategy that works. We're trying to do a little bit of SaaS on the organization side, just to offset some of our costs. But the tricky part with volunteers is they're already doing you a favor, they're already helping you. I've struggled with the volunteers to figure out what's the best strategy here.

Pat:
Yeah. One more time, can you run down all the different ways that you've tried? Because I think that's important to know, because oftentimes those are like, "Okay, well, let's steer away from that," because I think ... I have some ideas. I just want to make sure we haven't tried them yet.

Chris:
Yeah, for sure. We have Google ads that run on the site that brings in like $40 a month. We just, we don't get enough transactions. There's just not enough hits on the pages.

We've tried monetizing it by charging. There's a mobile app that we have. When all the mobile apps were given away for free, and everybody was charging a premium instead, we had to scrap that.

We've tried selling products, so allowing the shelters to sell products, and even selling some of our own products. That really hasn't gone anywhere either. I can't say I've really tried doing a course. We've dabbled in a little bit of things like that, but nothing really serious, because I couldn't really figure out a course that somebody, as a volunteer, would want to pay for.

Pat:
Right. That would make sense. It almost feels forced, or you would get a very small percentage of people who might take you up on it. We want to go for something that's maybe a little bit more leverage here.

There's a couple things that come to mind, Chris. Number one, if I were to help transport an animal, do I get paid for that from the person who's trying to transport those animals? Is that how the service works?

Chris:
Nope. It's all volunteer based.

Pat:
All volunteer. Okay.

Chris:
Yeah.

Pat:
Okay. Because I was thinking of Uber and Airbnb. Of course, those transactions happen between the Uber rider and the Uber driver. Of course, Uber, as a result, gets a small percentage of that. But without any money coming in, then obviously that's not going to necessarily help, because a percentage of zero is zero still, right?

Chris:
Exactly.

Pat:
There could be ways that, perhaps there is a way for either tipping to happen, I don't know if that's something that you could potentially involve within a transaction, because volunteers, although they're doing it for free, somebody might want to ... I would absolutely potentially tip both the driver and the service for this to happen, if possible.

I'm also thinking of different kinds of ways to monetize that maybe ... I feel like there might be some creativity with relation to getting some grants or funds. I don't know if you've explored that route with relation to just how much of a service this is for public and for the world. There's potentially grants and other governments and organizations that might be able to lend a hand. That's oftentimes a solution for free services, similar to nonprofits. Have you explored that at all?

Chris:
Not really. It's one of those things, when I structured as an LLC, so it's not structured as a charity, but it's been tricky. I've tried getting people, not to tip, but to show Doobert some love, give Doobert a little bit of help, because it does cost us to run things.

I'm in that weird thing where it's really a social enterprise. I'm not intending to quit my job and do this forever, but it's got to offset the cost. If it's not a charity, then most of the time, I struggle to get any grants. That's why I'm kind of like, do I just donate the whole thing, turn it into a charity, and go that route? Or is there something here that I'm missing, maybe a different way to monetize?

Pat:
Yeah. Let's keep jamming. I think this is a fun problem to potentially solve. Hopefully, we will. I'm thinking of Wikipedia right now. Wikipedia is a free service. Yes, it's online. It doesn't involve necessarily people in the way that yours does, but it does involve the fact that there are volunteers coming in and editing and creating these articles that then get linked to each other. Oftentimes, they rank really high in search engines.

I know that this happens once or twice a year: I'll see a notification on the homepage of Wikipedia that says, just very honestly and authentically, "Hey, we are asking you to help donate, because this is what keeps the service available." I know they make quite a bit of money that way from usually a large dollar amount from a small number of people versus more of a collective whole, in which case, that can help you find some of the supporters in your communities and the organizations that you've worked with who might want to offer help, knowing that this is the time of the year to donate.

There's a lot of psychology around this. I think a lot of people would worry about doing this, because it almost feels like you're holding out a cup, like, "Hey guys, please help me," kind of situation, versus a, "This is our bi-annual fundraiser to keep this going. We enable animals, which is why we're here, to connect with volunteers to help transport and move. If you can't support, that's totally okay. But if you want to show some support for the organization, to keep it running and to keep it going and supporting the team here, we very much appreciate it."

Kind of like a telethon, but more with the available tools that you have today to go live. Maybe you bring some guests on. You have perhaps some stories that are told and some giveaways. You have maybe sponsors come on and offer ... Maybe they can't offer monetary support, but they can offer some of their products for you to give away during that day. That becomes a neat way to, number one, bring awareness to the company, but number two, throw in the occasional, "Again, remember today, we're doing a fundraiser to help support the company. We don't do this very often, because this is all for free. Any support that you can offer ..."

Heck, if I was using this service and I saw that, and I loved it, and it was a great experience, I'd offer monetary support, even if it was a little bit. A lot of those can go a very long way.

Chris:
Yeah. No. I really like that idea. It's something I hadn't thought of. It gives it a very specific event, and like you said, it raises awareness and hopefully raises some money at the same time to just fund the operations, to keep things going. Like you said, I could see bringing on different people, different stories, just sharing what that experience is like, and how it helps the people that are helping the animals.

Pat:
Exactly. I could even imagine you getting tied into different organizations with relation to animals that aren't the same as yours, but perhaps complement it.

I remember watching something, I can't remember ... I think it was the Puppy Bowl. I think it was actually the Puppy Bowl, where you could actually adopt those puppies that were there in the Puppy Bowl. It might be interesting to have a puppy or a cat adoption flavor to it as well in some components.

There could even be a really interesting ... a zookeeper for the kids to come on and watch, like, "Hey, if you have families, at this hour during this telestream," or whatever, "we're going to have a zookeeper on. They're going to bring some really interesting animals on. This will be some fun education for the kids. Again, we're all doing this because these people all volunteered to help out and support Doobert today. We're doing our fundraiser to hopefully raise some funds to keep this operation going for you."

I could see you doing it with grace, and I could see it not feeling like it's asking, but more just allowing for people who want to support to give back to you.

Chris:
Yeah. I think that's important. I like that you said that. Because I think that's been my challenge. Like you said, I don't want to be going out with a hat in hand. That's not the goal. I want them to want to support it, because their support helps us to keep the lights on, and to fund additional development and more things that are actually going to help.

So I like that idea where it's more of a celebration, if you will. At the same time, if they're interested, we make it simple for them to contribute to our ongoing success.

Pat:
Yeah. The celebration, that's a great word, Chris. I love that idea. It could be maybe a milestone celebration that you celebrate, or just years of operation. There could be a whole number of reasons to celebrate, for sure, and then have that really good feeling. When people feel good, they are more likely to support.

There's another thing that I was thinking of. There was a person I interviewed a long time ago who ran a business. It was a completely different business, but he added in something into his business because he was struggling with monetization. He was not sure if he was charging too much, or if he should just give away everything for free.

He ended up putting a, "Pay what you want," button on his website. He said, "You know what? There's a recommendation, but you can do it for free." It's still volunteer.

It's almost like when you order from DoorDash. Yes, that's obviously a payment between the restaurant and yourself. But then the Dasher is there, the person who's transporting the food, and I can always choose to offer that person a tip. I always do, because ... And they have a recommended tip.

But I think in this case, you can say, "Hey, by the way, before you complete this transaction and you get all the information, might you want to support Doobert with a $5 donation today to help keep it up? If not, just click here. No worries. Everything else is the same." Having just ...

I know you have an app too. That could be a very simple way to maybe even test on one day, just to see what would happen, and get some feedback on it, and see if it was too invasive or even not even a person's second thought on it. It could be an interesting way for you to just start actually getting something coming in, in a way that, again, is not an alert, but more just a, "Hey, by the way."

Chris:
Yeah. No. I like that, because it's not intrusive. Like you said, it's not demanding. It's just a simple, "Hey, by the way, if you'd like to be a part of this and help us continue to grow, here's how you can do it." Like you said, "If not, no worries," and you can easily dismiss the notice.

Pat:
That's also making me think of different ways that you can have ... Let's say somebody does donate $5. Maybe then they now have a special part on their profile, like a badge or something, kind of like ... I don't know if you've seen those cars that have the license plate that says like PBS Member.

Chris:
Yeah, exactly.

Pat:
You can create something like that, where you're a Doobert member, and with any amount that you pay, you get a license plate or something, or a patch. Maybe they also get a quarterly email that has some news and a newsletter, or even a printable one that gets sent out just to those people who are members. By being a member ... I know people aren't members of PBS because they are actively in the community talking about PBS, they're just doing it to support.

Chris:
Right. Yeah, I like that idea. We call our volunteers Dooberteers, because they are.

Pat:
I like that.

Chris:
Yeah. So I like that idea where it's almost like you're getting recognized, you're getting some exclusivity. It's almost along the lines of the Patreon model ...

Pat:
Yes, yes.

Chris:
... where people are paying to sponsor. I could see being able to do things that gives you exclusive content, where it might be videos or live chats with me or things like that, that make people feel like they're part of the inner circle.

Pat:
For sure. You know, and when you get people to feel like they belong to something for a greater good, that's when they bring other people in. It can feel really neat when it's done that way.

Do you mind if I share more ideas? I'm just dumping it all on you.

Chris:
Yeah, please. I love this. This is great.

Pat:
You don't have to do all of them, or none of them. But the other thing that I was thinking of is you could potentially ... You said you have ads on your website. Was that true?

Chris:
Yeah. We just got the Google ad code out there.

Pat:
Okay. There could be, for example, I could see you working with, just for example, throwing it out there, Nationwide. Nationwide has some of the best pet insurance. You could reach out to somebody at Nationwide and say, "Hey, every month we have 4,000 people who transport animals. It's all done for free. We would love to work with you to see how we might be able to place an ad during a volunteer transaction to transport."

Maybe an ad shows up in the app when a person is transporting. Maybe an ad shows up during that process or whatever the process is to figure out who it is that you're transporting next. It becomes essentially a flier, but within the app, for perhaps a certain number of impressions.

I could imagine a company like that, especially, they're doing ... Who is it? Peyton Manning's on their commercials. They got some money to spend. What better way to spend some money than helping out the very animals that you're trying to protect with the insurance that you have.

There's probably several companies, pet food companies, other companies that would sponsor. This would mean direct advertising versus just the Google ads. That could be inserted into different ways.

I don't know if you, for example, send out a pamphlet to those who are going to be volunteers so that you train them a little bit. Maybe there's just an extra three pages in the back with ... kind of like a program at a concert. You see at the end ...

Chris:
Oh, the sponsors. Yeah.

Pat:
Yeah, all the sponsors, because, or else that program would have not been able to happen. That school event wouldn't have been able to happen. They get a little bit of love in that way. There's a ton of companies, in the pet space especially and other animals, that I'm sure would love to work with a company like yours.

Chris:
Yeah. No. I like that. It really does make it ... It gives them the ability to invest in something that they're trying to reach our customers. They're trying to reach our Dooberteers, because if you're passionate enough to volunteer your time and your money and your car to transport animals, then you're probably somebody that they want to reach, because you're spending money on your animals.

Pat:
Yeah. I love that. You know what? As a result of also sponsoring, and being a part of Doobert, and paying you X amount of money, I can imagine thousands of dollars for specific campaigns, they also get access to a 15 minute call with somebody at Nationwide on your Doobert live stream that you do to celebrate. Now, you start having different pieces that can all mix in and mingle together.

Chris:
Yeah. I like that, because that's the way I look at is, the corporate sponsors, what do they want? They want to reach my passionate customers. If I can provide that mechanism, it's worth money to them. They're out there spending money on ads, and I've got all the people right here. I just haven't figured out what to do with them.

Pat:
Yeah. They need you more than you need them in a way, because they're looking for people that you got. Don't forget that.

Yeah, Chris. I hope this ... This was a fun exercise. It was a fun challenge. It's a little bit different of a business. I think that after this, sitting down and maybe weighing them all against each other, or coming up with your own version of each of these ... I would actually recommend having conversations with other people who are involved about these ideas to see what their gut reactions are too. I think some cool things will happen from there.

Chris:
Yeah. Thanks. No, I really enjoyed the brainstorming and the ideas, because it's hard. When you've been after this for X number of years, and you just can't seem to crack the code, it's really nice to get an outside perspective, because it is a little bit different than, I think, what others are experiencing. But we're still after that same thing, we're trying to get people to be passionate and want to support what we're doing.

Pat:
For sure. Chris, I'm looking forward to hearing about how this all pans out. I would love to chat with you again. Maybe we can catch up and see how things go after a while. Is that something we could do?

Chris:
That sounds great, Pat. Looking forward to it.

Pat:
All right, Chris. One more time, where should people go to find Doobert?

Chris:
Real easy, just go to Doobert.com. They can be a volunteer and get involved and help save animals.

Pat:
Yeah, it looks really amazing. 33,419 registered rescue volunteers, 10,267 animals rescued, over 5,000 completed transports. Thank you for what you do. I'm an animal lover as well, and I did not know this existed, but I hope many more people eventually find it like I just did today. So thank you.

Chris:
Thanks, Pat.

Pat:
All right. Man, that was fun. I love a good brainstorming session. Sometimes you need two or more people in a room to just really go back and forth and get those wires fused in a way where ideas really start to happen. I really love that. This was a great episode.

Thank you, Chris, for coming on. Everybody check out Doobert.com, where you can help rescue animals. You can be of service to communities around you to help transport and take animals from one place to another, and rescue them. So check them out, D-O-O-B-E-R-T. That sounds like a wrap for you and me. Anyway, if you'd like to ... Sorry. It's late. I'm recording these late today.

If you would like to potentially get coached, just like Chris did here today, all you need to do is go to AskPat.com. You can find the application button there where you can apply, send us a little voice message, and we might reach out to you.

If we do, we'll get on a call, we'll schedule it, make sure our schedules align, and then I'm here to help you. By you allowing us to share this with others, I'm happy to do that for free. That way, we help as many people as possible. That's what this is about.

Thank you so much for listening in, I appreciate you. Make sure you hit that subscribe button if you haven't already. We've got a lot of great guest interviews and coaching sessions coming up for you.

I appreciate you. Thanks so much. Hit subscribe and I'll see you in the next episode. Cheers and as always, Team Flynn for the win.

Thanks for listening to AskPat at AskPat.com. I'm your host, Pat Flynn. Sound design and editing by Paul Grigoras. Our senior producer is Sara Jane Hess, our series producer is David Grabowski, and our executive producer is Matt Gartland.

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