Julia has a niche site in the traveling healthcare professional niche. Her blog is performing well so far and she's earning enough to live on, but she wants to go one step further by diversifying the income she receives from the site, specifically by creating partnerships from her affiliate relationships. Today we're going to break down some strategies for doing exactly that and more. Find out more about Julia at TheTravelingTraveler.com or on her Instagram, @TheTravelingTraveler_.
In this episode I recommend reading Will It Fly?—a book I wrote about idea validation and testing your ideas before you go all in with them.
Julia kicks things off by describing where she is in her business journey so far, with her Facebook group and other strategies. She also describes some of the rejected strategies she's attempted to pitch so far to potential partners. I give her some insight into the situation from the perspective of the companies, and offer a few potential alternative solutions, one easy, one medium, and one hard. I describe a few tactics, like creating launch events with her affiliates. We pivot to talk about some ideas Julia has for creating proprietary products, like an online course, and I give her some guidance on developing some of those ideas. I recommend strategies like pre-selling, and present her with a game plan that puts her in control of her products in a stable way. I hope to bring her back on the show in the future!
What You'll Learn:
Learn strategies for diversifying your blog's income through affiliate partnerships and creating original products for your brand.
AskPat 1054 Episode Transcript
Pat Flynn: Hey, what's up everybody? Pat Flynn here and welcome to episode 1054 of AskPat 2.0. This is a coaching call that you're about to hear with a real entrepreneur just like you who needs a little bit of help, and I'm here to help provide that help to them and also to any of you who may have, or come across eventually, similar issues.
Now, before we get into the conversation today with Julia, I do want to thank today's sponsor, which is FreshBooks. FreshBooks is an amazing cloud accounting software that's going to help you organize your life in so many ways that you didn't even know you needed, especially related to the business, and the finances, and the invoicing, and how you deal with other customers, and all those sorts of things.
And what's really cool is they're offering a thirty-day free trial access to all their features. I'll tell you about one in just a minute that I love, but thirty-day free trial. All you have to do is go to FreshBooks.com/askpat and just make sure you enter “Ask Pat” in the, “How did you hear about us?” section.
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All right. Now let's talk about Julia really quick. So we have Julia on the show. She's going to be sharing with you about her website called The Traveling Traveler. You can find her at TheTravelingTraveler.com. It's a resource, and inspiration really, for a lot of healthcare travelers. She's found this really amazing niche and she works with some amazing partners. She's making affiliate income, but she wants to partner with them in different kinds of ways. And you'll hear in this conversation that there is a turn in the middle of it where there is light bulbs firing off for where she thought she was going to go to where she is going to go, and what she can offer. So let's just get right into it. Here is Julia from TheTravelingTraveler.com.
Hey Julia, welcome to AskPat 2.0. Thanks so much for taking the time to be here today.
Julia: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited.
Pat: Thank you. How about you spend a couple minutes telling us what you do?
Julia: Well, my name is Julia and I'm the blogger behind The Traveling Traveler, which is a resources and lifestyle inspiration guide for traveling healthcare professionals. So I myself am a traveling speech language pathologist. I take thirteen-week contracts at different hospitals and rehab centers across the US, working mostly in adult neurogenic rehab. And I started doing that in 2010.
It's kind of like a crazy lifestyle to live. And so a couple of years after that in 2014, I mostly just wanted to connect with other people who did the same thing. I started a Facebook group for traveling therapists and that group has now organically grown to almost 9,000 people, which I've become the leader and expert in this group. And in the midst of all that, I started my blog, which has resources on how to travel, where to go, what to do.
And in starting that, it became such a big passion for me. I love it. So I had to monetize it because it was taking up a lot of my time, and I became super successful with affiliates in this small niche space that I'm in. And so now I'm coming to you today because I want to know how to turn those successful affiliate partnerships into more like a sponsored or partnership opportunity with these brands.
Pat: That's really cool. Well first of all, congratulations. It almost seems like you kind of accidentally fell into this and here you are as the leader of this amazing tribe. And now it's monetizeable and that's not always easy to do. So congratulations on that.
Julia: Thank you. Yeah, I love it. It's definitely my passion.
Pat: Now, is this your full time gig? Did you stop your speech language pathology traveling or are you doing that as well still?
Julia: I'm still traveling and that is one of the nice things about being a temp employee, is that I never had to have like a big kind of, I'm exiting full time work to work on my blog. It's like okay, I'm stopping a contract. I'll work on the blog for a couple months. But then I've always gone back to working. So I'm probably at about a part-time, half-time status with the blog.
Pat: That's really cool. In terms of monetization and your business model with your tribe and this blog that you have and the Facebook group, where are you at with that? You don't have to give us specific numbers, but if you could somehow allow me to gauge where you're at so that we can figure out like, okay, well how much further could we go? That would be super helpful.
Julia: Money wise? I do make enough gross off of the blog to pay my bills, to live. I'm actually making more off of it now than when I was full time as a speech therapist.
Pat: Nice. Good for you.
Julia: It's probably coming up on . . . in 2019, it definitely could be six figures. So it's definitely going well but about 90 percent of that is affiliate income, which is thanks in large part to you and Smart Passive Income. I learned a ton from you. So I guess with that I'm just a bit concerned that that money fluctuates.
In 2018, I've had months where I'm making lower amounts versus I kind of closed out the end of the year making more in Q4 than I made the entire rest of the year. So I guess it's a bit unstable and that's one of the reasons why I'm thinking of doing more like, sponsorship opportunities because I would see that maybe as a little more stable income.
Pat: Sure. It's kind of recurring and you can plan for that versus who knows what can happen with affiliate marketing? And I think another important part of this talk is the fact that affiliate marketing is great, however all of your business is coming in as a result of your connections with these other companies and these relationships that you have. And for me, most of my income for years was coming from affiliate marketing as well.
Somebody had once told me, “Well, what happens if those affiliates go away, or maybe those companies get bought out, or they remove those programs that you're promoting?” And that was a little bit scary to me because I wasn't really diversified. So I think this conversation on how we can sort of diversify your income and make it more stable is a very important one to have. So thank you for bringing it to the table.
What have you thought of in terms of solutions for this? So you said one of those things was sponsorships. Give me an idea of what you're thinking along those lines and how that might work.
Julia: So what I've been thinking—and to be honest, these are kind of the ideas that the companies have kind of rejected in the past. But what I was envisioning is that I'm a successful affiliate for these companies, I create a lot of content for the affiliates, and that brings them a lot of brand awareness and a lot of marketing that doesn't necessarily get attributed to my sales.
So I was thinking that I could pitch companies and say, “Hey, over a three-month period of time, you could pay X amount of dollars for so many blog posts a month, so many social media posts, and this in turn would be good marketing. And also I could work closer with you.” Because I've found that any time I've really worked closer with a company, and we've met, and we've consulted, and they've shared their ideas, and I've said, “Hey, well this is actually what I see on my end being the therapist, being the one buying and selling,” we've gotten better.
So I picture a sponsorship is being maybe some consulting and partnerships mixed in with content creation. And that's what I pitched in the past and those pitches have come back either rejected or cut down to like one tenth of the size that I proposed it at. So that's kind of where I am.
Pat: Well I'll give you some insight on probably why they are reacting that way. For one, you are already producing some great income for them without them having to spend any money with you.
Julia: Exactly, and I do the content to make that money. So they're getting it from me already.
Pat: Right. So if I was the company I'd be like, “Well, everything's great. Why would I need to change anything and pay you more than what you're already getting when you send customers over? I don't lose anything if you are only paid when you send me a customer.” And that's really what's going on in the heads of the companies that you might be working with.
So there are various ways to work with companies though. First of all, I commend you for asking. That's always step number one because that's the only worse thing that can happen is they'll go, “No, we don't want to do that, but we'll continue what we've done.” So that's great because you never know until you ask.
Julia: No one's ever been negative or mean, so it's fine.
Pat: Yeah, and I want to offer a few different potential solutions for you, one related to these affiliates that you already have relationships with. And I'm so thankful that you've already reached out to them, you've got to know them. That's always what I recommend, and I teach this in my course, 1·2·3 Affiliate Marketing. Try to build real relationships with these companies because that's a way for you to stand out, it's a way for them to give you access to new things that might be coming out or special deals, and it's always good to have some really good rapport with those companies. So you're already doing that.
There's an easy way to begin to increase your income with the affiliates you have and the easiest way is to go to those companies, and this doesn't always happen, meaning it doesn't always work, but it's again, one of those things that you could potentially ask. And I've done this several times in the past and it has worked and it has given me an immediate bump in income.
And that is simply asking, especially with those that you already have a relationship with, you've already been helping them out, making them lots of money over time. You go to them and you ask, “Hey, is there any way that you can increase the commissions?” And it's as simple as that.
Julia: I was totally thinking about doing that too.
Pat: It's as simple as that.
Julia: That's a possibility?
Pat: Absolutely. That's sort of the easy level. I'll give you an easy, I'll give you a medium, and I'll give you a hard. The easy is just simply asking that because again, what's the worst that can happen? But also, they want to keep you on as an affiliate. Plus, if you position it as not just, “Hey, look what I've done for you,” but, “Look what I'm going to do for you with this extra income that comes in.”
Maybe it's, “Well, I'm going to spend a little bit more money on the design of the website so I need some additional income to come in to support that so that we can better support your company.” Or, “We're going to be running some Facebook ads in the future to a lot of these articles and we're looking to work with our partners on this so that if we have an increased commission, we can put more resources into the Facebook ads and get even more people into the ecosystem.”
So those kinds of reasons that kind of justify the commission, in addition to just the fact that you've helped them for so long over time, can lead to a conversation about an increase in commission. So that that would be the easiest thing to do for one. Number two—
Julia: Okay. And that's totally possible. Yeah.
Pat: Yeah. And there are some companies that I've worked with where every couple of years, like I literally have it in my calendar planned two years ahead of time to go and ask to see if there's any room for a commission increase. And it's just, obviously if you ask every day it's not gonna happen, but every once in a while just based on your gut and your common sense, it's worth asking because you don't get it unless you ask. That's for sure.
Julia: I even have one company where I'm starting 2019, and they have a sliding scale. So they start at a certain percentage and you can go to a certain other level after you do, I think the highest level is after 100 sales. So I've done 100 sales in 2018. I was making the highest level and now I'm getting bumped down again in 2019. I was actually going to go to them and say, “Hey, can I start out at that higher level because of the sales I've done last year?”
Pat: Yeah. They have that sliding scale system knowing that it helps incentivize people to promote. And you reaching out to then shows them that you are incentivized to promote. I think that's a great place to start. That might be just step number one actually, for you.
Now, another thing that you can do to increase your income with the affiliates that you have is to look at how people are coming to your website and how they're getting involved with these affiliate companies that you're promoting and optimize that process. Meaning, perhaps it's some of your most popular blog posts. Are people who are coming into your website seeing those? Are they are organically finding them or are you actually like putting it in front of their face?
For example, on your homepage, are those things listed on your homepage, on a start here page, or in your email? Or on the Facebook group, are there moments during the month where you mention your top resources and articles that support them to, again, get people in front of them if they haven't seen them yet? So just optimizing how often and what people see related to those affiliate products can give you a nice bump without you having to do much additional work.
Julia: That's a good one. Yeah, definitely.
Pat: And then the hard one would be to, again with the same affiliates, would be to, with those relationships in mind, create special events. I've done this a few times in the past, especially with like, ConvertKit. So ConvertKit is an email service provider who I am an affiliate for. I'm also an advisor for them. And what we do every once in a while is we'll run a big event, meaning we do a webinar and they come in as sort of guest co-hosts to this webinar. [Full Disclosure: I'm a compensated advisor and an affiliate for ConvertKit.]
We teach them a lot and we promote it. And we give everybody who's on that webinar and people on my email list a special limited time deal that I work out with ConvertKit beforehand that is a deal that nobody can get anywhere else during that time. It's limited, which is good, because that means it's not always and forever. So that company doesn't lose money over time.
But if you were to have a special deal with one of these companies for a week long period and you really make a big deal out of it, it really incentivizes people to, if they were on the fence, to get it right then and there because that deal would be going away, or that bonus would be going away, or that discount would be going away, or whatever it is you work out with those companies.
And that takes a little bit more coordination. But having an event like structure to it and having that sort of excitement and the deal that goes away, it really adds to the quality of your sales during that time.
Julia: Yeah, that's definitely something I've thought a lot about. And I've done some kind of smaller events, but I want to put more time into really optimizing what people want and what could really sell in that shorter amount of time.
Pat: And the big caution I would have for you related to those things, especially because they're treated like live events essentially, or periods of time during the year, is to plan out the whole year or at least a few quarters ahead so that you can understand, “okay, well during this month, this is when we're going to go pretty big on supporting this particular product. And we'll make sure to not do it again with another product immediately after.”
So you space it out a couple of weeks or a couple of months or what have you. And that way you can start to see this the whole year ahead of you and what to plan for. And the benefit of that is from a content point of view, is that if you know that for example, four weeks from now you're going to promote your top product and you're going to have this event with a discount and all that stuff, maybe three weeks from now, a week before that promotion you have blog articles come out and discussions happen in the forum related to that particular problem that that particular solution solves.
Julia: Oh okay.
Pat: So you're able to kind of use your content for the support of those launches of other people's products and those recommendations.
Julia: Yeah. So it's not just coming at them as almost like a surprise.
Pat: Exactly, exactly.
Pat: So you're kind of telling a story during the whole time and really focusing on what the problem is, different solutions that are out there, and then you essentially end up on the best solution you found with proof. And a lot of your own community members have probably already used these things so they might step up during this time to talk about that thing as a solution. And then there's a special deal on top of it. It really becomes like this nice choreographed sort of lift for that product. Is this all making sense?
Julia: Yeah. This is all making sense. So I'm more or less optimizing and growing closer, more beneficial relationships with the affiliate companies, growing more income without necessarily asking them to put out maybe money upfront or something like that, but still growing the partnership.
Pat: Right. You're taking what's working and making it work even better.
Julia: Optimizing it, yeah.
Pat: I know this doesn't address your initial concern about more stable income, however, number one, having these launch dates and these events and better sort of commissions, that obviously will help cushion any sort of worry that you might have and also give you a little bit of sense of, well during this launch, we might see an influx and that can really help out and and so on and so forth. But the second part of this conversation I want to have is, have you thought about creating your own products ever?
Julia: Yeah, I have. That's a whole other probably Q&A, but I've definitely thought about creating my own products. Are you interested in hearing about what I want to create?
Pat: I would love to learn everything that's going on in your brain around this, because if you want to talk about really getting solid on money that you control and that you can have control over, your own products is really where it would lie.
Julia: Okay. So I definitely feel that way. Actually, as I talk to you now, I'm on my last week of a work contract, meaning that when I go home next week I'm essentially just employed as an independent contractor. So the idea of having my own products is definitely on my mind, and really my first thing to do when I get home and I'm working on the blog full time.
And I have product ideas basically for different sides of my audience. So part of my audience, they are speech language pathologists like me. They might never want to travel in their life, but they like the resources information that I bring to them as a speech language pathologist. So I was considering making basically printables, like PDF packets for speech therapists to take into treatment sessions with them to use with patients.
Because of all the traveling I've done, I've become very minimalistic of a clinician. I can go into a room and kind of do therapy without bringing a whole wagon worth of this stuff with me. So one thing I wanted to do was sell materials that other people could use and be more minimalistic but still have high quality materials. And I was thinking about selling them right off my website, like WooCommerce.
Then another product I was thinking about was doing a course on how to travel as a therapist or healthcare professional. I actually bought a Teachable subscription last year and I've been paying for it every month purely to make myself put up a course and I haven't put up a course yet. So that's a number two goal, is to get a course. [Full Disclosure: I'm a compensated advisor and an affiliate for Teachable.]
Then the other kind of far fetched product that I've been thinking about is to run a group tour. So a lot of people come to me and say, “Hey, we love the way you travel. You travel for work, but you also travel to Costa Rica for a month by yourself and I'd love to come with you.” So I've also thought about organizing group tours, like ten people in a tour and doing a trip to Costa Rica, like a retreat.
So those are kind of the three products that are on my mind going into 2019.
Pat: I love it. You've already thought about this.
Julia: Oh yeah. Yeah, definitely.
Pat: You bought Teachable. I think there's still something going on here. You bought it over a year ago, but you haven't created your own course yet. You've been thinking about this for awhile. Tell me why you haven't created your own course yet.
Julia: To be honest, I think I just don't have the confidence in myself. I need to get over that. To me, I'm giving away all my resources on the blog. I give away as much as I can for free online in the group. So I'm thinking like, how can I market selling a course? What's gonna be the value in selling that? So that's where I'm stumped.
Pat: The value that comes in selling a course—and don't worry, you're not alone. Number one, you're not the only person to buy Teachable and not put up a course. But more than that, you're definitely not alone in that you don't feel like there's value there with what you have to offer. And I think this is just a story you're telling yourself and it's a story a lot of us tell ourselves based on whatever it is.
But I think we know that's not the truth. If I were to ask you, if you were to put together a course, would you make it valuable to those who bought it? I already know what your answer would be. It would be a resounding absolutely.
Julia: Yeah, absolutely.
Pat: And so there's literally no proof, there's no truth to the idea that you wouldn't come out with something that wouldn't be useful and valuable. So that's number one, just kind of rewriting that story in your head. And I think when it comes to the kinds of things that a course can offer people, number one, it's organization, it's commitment, investment, it's access to you. It's access to just only what a person might need for that transformation. It's access to a sort of more refined community within your existing community.
There's so many positive things that come with courses and this is coming from a person who for eight years didn't create his own course even though people had been asking because I thought affiliate marketing was just enough. And when I got my first round of students and I was able to see the results that they were having, it blew my mind. And it made me realize just how much I was in my own way.
And so what I would offer to you is to think about each of these things, actually. Even go as far as outlining each of them just to kind of see how they would materialize and what they would look like, what they would feel like, actually see what it might take to plan out a retreat, and actually create the outline for your speech pathology course, actually create the outline for the traveling healthcare professionals. And see which one excites you most.
And then you can begin to test it. You can begin to start talking to some of the people in your audience. Perhaps you know a number of people in your group who are more outspoken, or more fans, or more sort of just involved. And you can almost kind of recruit them as sort of how much you say, just kind of early users for this thing as you create it, which maybe you give them free access to it once it is created, in exchange for just the feedback along the way to make it something great.
I'm a big proponent of, when I'm thinking of creating a course or anything, is to pre-sell it, but even before pre-selling it, collecting payments even before you create it to validate it.
Julia: Oh wow.
Pat: This is what I talk about my book, Will It Fly?, and I know a lot of people when I tell them that they go, “Really? I couldn't imagine collecting money for something I hadn't made yet,” but there's a lot of benefit to that. And when you think of places like Kickstarter, that's exactly what Kickstarter is for. You pay for things that are just ideas to sort of vote with your dollars to see, and if it reaches a certain level, then the company makes it. And as long as they're transparent and communicative along the way, then everybody's fine and you'd be the same way.
You wouldn't promote it as if it was live and then tell everybody, “Sorry, I don't have it for you yet.” You would tell people, “This is something I'm thinking of creating. Here's the outline for it and here's why I'm creating it. If this doesn't sound like it's something you're interested in, don't worry about it. I'm not taking anything away from you. All the free content's still gonna be there, but I wanted to put something very streamlined and high level for you with accountability included so that you can achieve X, Y, and Z.
“And if you're interested in this, here's the pre-sale page. And if I get twenty people to sign up, I'm going to build it with you. You're gonna have a lot of access to me during the creation of the course and I'll deliver a new module to you every two weeks. And then by the end of six weeks, you'll have everything you need.”
And what's cool about that for you as the course creator is number one, you won't have to create the whole thing worrying that people are going to either buy it or not after. You can validate whether or not this is actually something people want beforehand. So you learn that quickly upfront, versus after you build a thing, which is a very depressing time to learn that nobody wants your thing.
Number two, by building it with your beta students, if you want to call them that, or your champions, your early adopters, you're building it in the way that it needs to be versus what you think it should be, and they're able to help fill in the holes for you that you might not even know exist. And then finally, by the end of the six weeks or however many weeks your course might take for them to get all that content, you have real people who've gone through it with real results hopefully, if you've taught them everything that you taught them.
And I'm sure it would be great and they would take action because they're going to be early access users. You'll now have testimonials so that when you actually go live with this thing and remind everybody, “Hey guys, we just ran through the beta group. Now it's live for you. Here are the testimonials from real people.” That's the big struggle with a lot of course creators is they create courses first, they push it out to their audience, and they go, “Okay, well this sounds interesting, but prove it to me. Prove that this works.”
“Well, nobody's taken it yet, so I can't prove it to you.” So that's kind of the big conundrum there. And so this is the process I teach in Will It Fly?, in my book. And if you haven't gotten access to that yet, I'd love to send you one. So after this call, if you haven't gotten it yet, I'll just send you a copy for free.
Julia: Oh, that would be great. I'd love that, thank you.
Pat: Great, we'll send that over. And how is this all feeling to you? Is it overwhelming? Is it exciting? I want to know what's in your head right now.
Julia: It's exciting. Actually, it's less overwhelming than I thought the call might be because actually, I think we kind of changed the direction a little bit as to what I initially thought. And you kind of put things a lot more in my control as a creator and producer.
Pat: That's awesome.
Julia: And I can handle that. I can create my own products, which I think will in turn give me that sense of more control and stability if I'm creating something versus, as I said in the beginning, I'm nervous about essentially relying on affiliates for my income because that can change at any time.
Pat: Right. And we were discussing new ways to work with those people, versus now you're just creating for yourself. And like you said, I didn't even realize this, now you have even more control because it's you that's in charge of when you launch it, the price, and special deals that go along with it. And as you create more products, then you'll start to see there's a lot of overlap between your customers, your best customers or your existing ones.
Likely, people are going to be buying your speech pathology course, and then also your travel course, and then also want to go on a retreat with you. It's pretty amazing how people find people who do that.
Julia: And we're optimizing the affiliates so maybe they'll buy something in one of those launches too.
Pat: Yeah, exactly. In terms of which one to start with to finish off, it's really going to be more so your decision. It might be based on a survey that you do or conversations that you have. I can't imagine, like you said, people who buy the speech pathology one, because we have a lot of them who follow you, who wouldn't be interested in the travel one and vice versa. So I wouldn't worry about leaving the other group out because you are creating specific solutions for specific people with specific needs.
And if a specific solution you're creating does not match up with a certain group of people in your audience, well then great. They don't have to follow that sales process or they don't have to really be concerned about that right now because that's not them. You're building multiple solutions for multiple kinds of people and it starts with one. It starts with one and I'm really excited for you, Julia.
Julia: Thank you.
Pat: I'm just very encouraged by what you had just said and that this, yes, it did go a different course, but I think often we just need a little bit of help on the outside to steer us in the right direction. Hopefully that's what I've been able to provide for you today.
Julia: Absolutely. Thank you. I am really excited about the future now.
Pat: Yay. Awesome. Can you tell everybody before you go, where can people read about what you have going on and find you?
Pat: Thank you, Julia. I appreciate you so much for sharing this and being open and vulnerable here for us, and looking forward to hopefully connecting with you in the future after your first course is done and we can talk about it. Would that be okay?
Julia: Yeah. Thank you. That would be amazing.
Julia: Thanks, Pat.
Pat: Keep up the good work. Take care.
Pat: All right. I hope you enjoyed that episode with Julia. Again, you can find her at TheTravelingTraveler.com. She's done an amazing job of creating this amazing group of people who have been following her and who care for her advice and who want to just take her recommendations. And as you might remember, the conversation started out with, well, how can she create these more interesting little promotions with the partners that she has?
And we've uncovered many new ways to not just work with those partners in much easier ways with much less friction, but other offerings that could be added on top of that too. So I'm really excited to chat with Julia in the future. We will likely bring her back on the show at some point to talk about how things have gone and hopefully you've gotten inspiration from Julia and myself here today. So thank you so much for listening and I appreciate you.
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