AP 1019: How Do I Go from Coaching to Generating Passive Income?

About This Episode

Today I'm coaching Lisa, who's a parenting coach. Her website is BratBusters.com. Lisa has been working with clients in a one-on-one capacity for years, but now she's looking to transfer her knowledge to an online course, podcast, and more. She's also having trouble with the messaging of her online content because of the stigma of hiring a parenting coach. How can she create successful, passive online content with positive messaging for her business?

We start by exploring Lisa's current strategy and fine-tuning it. Over the course of the call, we identify ways Lisa can tie her coaching business to an online course, refine her messaging, discuss how she should price the course, and create a game plan so that she can pre-sell and finesse her course before she launches it.

What You'll Learn:
Learn strategies for converting a coaching business to passive income through a refined, well-marketed online course.

AskPat 1019 Episode Transcript

Pat Flynn: What's up everybody? Thank you so much for joining me in Episode 1019 of AskPat 2.0. This is a podcast where I coach an entrepreneur through a pain or a problem that they might be having and you may have that problem, too. So make sure you stick around because today you're going to hear Lisa, who is a parenting coach. Yes, a very important thing because often times kids and their parents don't agree. Lisa helps parents understand how to help discipline their kids while still having fun and keeping those relationships strong for the rest of their lives. So, really important stuff.

Lisa is having some trouble with the messaging of what it is she's offering related to . . . so she's been a coach for like eleven years, but she's having trouble with converting that coaching, which is very one to one, obviously, to more group or passive-type things, courses, those kinds of things. She's having trouble with the messaging of how to do that. We're going to walk her through that process today.

First, before that, I do want to give a big shout out to today's sponsor, which is FreshBooks, one of my favorite companies because, just like with parenting, right? It can be a struggle sometimes to manage the kids. I know because I have two kids myself. Same thing with your finances. It can be a struggle to manage your finances in your business, too. I use FreshBooks. I love it. They've helped me out for years. I'm stoked to share them with you. They can help you keep track of your income, your expenses and also your invoicing. They can allow you to create a really professional-looking invoice in literally less than thirty seconds. It's really easy to use. I've used it and I love it for all those reasons.

If you want to check it out for free for thirty days, all you have to do is go to FreshBooks.com/askpat and just make sure you enter “Ask Pat” in the “How did you hear about us?” section.

Awesome. All right. Now, here is the coaching session today with Lisa.

Hey, Lisa, thanks for coming on AskPat 2.0 today. How are you doing?

Lisa Bunnage: I'm doing great. Thanks so much, Pat.

Pat Flynn: Yeah. Absolutely. For everybody out there listening, tell us really quickly what it is that you do.

Lisa Bunnage: I'm a parenting coach. What I do is I do one-on-one coaching with parents and I teach them how to get respect and have fun with their children. It's time for money, which I'd really like to go in the direction of passive income, for a couple of reasons.

One, is obviously for my own benefit, but also I think I can reach more people out there if I'm providing courses and things where I'm not involved. I really believe my message is so important. Discipline is basically what I'm teaching, but it's mixed with a lot of fun. I think that parents often think you can't be tough and be friends at the same time, but you can.

Pat Flynn: Right. I've heard that phrase, “Parent first, friend second.”

Lisa Bunnage: Well, yeah. But you know, if you've got all the discipline down pat, then you're just going to be friends all the time.

Pat Flynn: Exactly.

Lisa Bunnage: I did that with my kids. It was very rare where I had to give them mum's look. You know that look, right?

Pat Flynn: Right.

Lisa Bunnage: Just straighten them right out. Because we had respect. They wanted to have fun. They didn't want to be reprimanded or disciplined or anything. Why would they? Why would they act out? Why would they not be respectful?

Anyway, this is what I do. I really struggle with courses and how to set that all up and how to communicate the value of parent education, because I think that parents think that parenting should just come naturally. I often say, if we could get two chances at it, two different families, we'd probably do a lot better job on the second one. But we really only get one go at it. Usually, anyway, with one family. We can get that right and learn how to . . . sort of get a plan in place in how to go about it before we even have kids, that would be ideal for me, is to be able to teach brand new parents how to get set up and what to expect and not to expect things to be perfect, because they're not going to be. Parenting's often messy. Generally, how to have confidence and enjoy the process.

Pat Flynn: Love it. I think that's needed.

Lisa Bunnage: Yeah. So anyway, enough on that.

Pat Flynn: How long have you been doing that for, coaching other parents?

Lisa Bunnage: Eleven years.

Pat Flynn: Eleven years. How are you finding your clients right now?

Lisa Bunnage: Well, mostly through referrals. Child psychologists, because I have specialized in troubled teens. It is a specialty, but I also talk about newborns, too. It's whatever parenting suits. Just a lot of referrals. Clients are coming back to me year after year. They just want more direction.

Pat Flynn: That's wonderful.

Lisa Bunnage: And then also, for some reason I've been doing a lot of marriage counseling too. Because when people get comfortable with you and they feel like you know each other, and when they're having problems with their marriage, you know, often related to the children, then I do that also.

I love it. Listen, I just love my clients. I feel like I'm their mother and I feel very nurturing towards them and so it's truly a joy. I feel very lucky to be able to do this.

But, it is tricky because there's a real stigma attached to hiring a parenting coach. There's not many of us out there who are making a living doing it. It's a tough sell. People feel shame when they hire me and not so much when they're referred, but if they just find me on Google or something they feel like they've somehow failed that they need help, which I think is ridiculous. You haven't failed at all, you just need a boost or you need some help. I mean, it's not failure. But, yeah, it's a real struggle, I'll be honest with you, Pat, it's been a real struggle. If I didn't have the referrals and the loyal clients coming back and sending other people, it would be really difficult. I mean, more so than it already is.

Pat Flynn: What kinds of things are you trying right now to sort of diversify or move toward more of a passive or maybe group-type thing?

Lisa Bunnage: Well, here's my plan, and you tell me what you think.

Pat Flynn: Okay.

Lisa Bunnage: I'm going to be setting up a course. Now, I've had them in the past, but they've been with me involved. This is just going to be courses . . . I'm going to do video courses. I'm not sure what to do. Do I target toddlers or children or teens, or just do a more general “All About You”, like all about the parent, and how you feel, and how you cope with parenting? I'm not sure what course to start with.

Then when I do that, I have bought the equipment to start a podcast, because I love that idea. I'd love to interview parents and everything online. I'm hoping to do that and then on—Facebook seems to be the one I like the most.

But, I'm not sure how to bring people in. I'm not sure about my message. My message is really about leadership and . . . so, leadership parenting. I'm just not sure how to make it sound fun at the same time—and it is. There's a lot of humor in this, too. Like I said, parenting can be messy and funny and we're gonna mess up and make mistakes with our kids, but we hope not too many. That's normal. I want it to be a safe environment for parents to turn to. That's my plan. And you're the one who's good at this, so I'm hoping you can direct me.

Pat Flynn: Well, I have some thoughts, definitely. I like the direction of it, for sure. I think, more important than anything is I can feel and I can hear in your voice that this is really important to you. This is a passion of yours. You want people to enjoy the process and you love removing this pain for people, which I think you need that more than anything, and you have that, which is great. Now, we just need to connect that and what you can teach them with how they can find you and where they can learn from you.

In all of this, what would you say the real challenge is here for you? Because I assume that the real challenge isn't technically how to set up a course or the things to say. What is the real challenge here for you, do you feel?

Lisa Bunnage: The real challenge is the marketing, is the bringing the people . . . is the message that you should be proud of yourself that you're searching for help or searching for guidance. People are really proud of having a personal trainer. I want it to be along those lines. Instead of . . . it's the shame. I want to get rid of the shame.

Pat Flynn: Right.

Lisa Bunnage: I can kind of see it, actually. There's nothing as personal as parenting. Even weight isn't as personal, because those children are a huge reflection on who you are in every way. I want to remove that shame. I want to get across the fun, because humor . . . Actually, I'll be honest. I was either going to be a parenting coach or a comedian. Humor is really important to me and it's my tool. It's my weapon of choice when I'm dealing with kids and real problem teens or whatever. It's worked really well for me.

I really want parents to understand that this is a fun process and you're going to not only learn more about your children, but you're going to learn a lot more about yourself. It's a real self-awareness transformation that I take parents through. They learn so much about themselves. How on earth do I get that message across?

Pat Flynn: Well, there's a couple things. Number one, I'm immediately thinking of the therapist industry and how there's this negative stigma in the same way of, you know, you need therapy, something must be wrong with you. Or therapy is sort of a reactionary solution to something versus a proactive prevention type of situation. And there's a lot of people out there teaching and doing therapy online. That might be a great place to start in terms of research to see how they're doing it, how they're positioning it. You can find one that kind of jives with your style to just use as motivation and inspiration for how you might be able to structure something and how they're marketing versus how you might be able to market it. I'm just trying to tie in an industry that there may be proven routes on this already, just in different forms. That's number one.

Number two, I would actually encourage you to go back to your customers and your clients—and this is a great exercise that all of us can do every once in a while, that is to have them answer the question: Why are you here? It could be phrased in different ways. When you hear from your customers why they came to you and those kinds of things—you likely know a lot of those answers, already.

Another great question to ask is: How would you convince somebody that this is something they need? That way, much like your clients are helping you get even more clients through referrals, it's essentially a way for them to give you their referral words so that you can convince a new person who is coming across you for the first time that this isn't a thing to feel shameful for.

I would imagine that you are already, on your sales pages and the moment people find you in whatever way online through organic search or links to your website, whatever, hopefully the first message is: It's okay. This is nothing to be shameful for.

Are you practicing those immediate things that you told me, to new people who are finding you?

Lisa Bunnage: I'm not sure. I'm kind of redoing all that. I'm re-branding. I'm kind of a little bit up in the air about that, because I worry about pointing out that they might feel that way. Do you see what I mean? I don't want to say, “It's okay that you're here.” In other words, they might think it's not okay: “Why are you thinking it's not okay?”

Pat Flynn: Right.

Lisa Bunnage: I try to make it positive. I don't tend to address the negative. Maybe that's part of it. I'm not sure.

Pat Flynn: I think it can be helpful, but you don't have to have a sales video that's super dramatic in the beginning with dark colors, you don't have to go don't that route. If it's not you, don't do it. I think it's important to also tie into what happens if you don't fix this. The amplification of that problem, if you will.

I also think that you can solve the problem of just who this is for and making them feel welcome by addressing it from all angles. You can address it from the positive angle and the negative angle so that you kind of capture both sets of people, no matter how they're finding you. “Hey, this is for those of you who might be struggling with parenting and you know, you might need some help. Or maybe you're on top of it and you just want to make sure that you are continuing to keep that moving forward into your life as a parent.” I think those small tweaks can help you with this thing in your head that's saying, “You know what, I don't know if I'm actually portraying what I need to portray to the right people.” That's just a small thing.

Going back to what you were saying earlier about courses and whatnot. I think a course is a great idea. Have you ever considered pre-selling it to help you with the messaging, and just to understand that this is something that you should dedicate time and effort into?

Lisa Bunnage: I'll tell you why I don't see myself pre-selling, and I may be wrong. I get so caught up in details. And I get . . . technology just freaks me out. I get so caught up in it that I worry that doing a pre-sell would take so long that I'd never actually get the product out there.

Pat Flynn: Why do you think that?

Lisa Bunnage: I think I'm kind of uncomfortable with it, to be honest. And then there's this pressure. You pre-sell it . . . to be honest I've already got all the information, I just have to package it up at this point, but I would worry about pre-selling it and then what if I get sick or something and I can't get it out there? Just the idea of it kind of makes me stressed out and I don't know . . . is the benefit of pre-selling only to get money upfront, or is there some other marketing—

Pat Flynn: No. That is a benefit, but that's like the third or fourth benefit. The real benefit is A, understanding that this is something that people want. So that if you share that pre-sale sales page and you send the emails out and you get people in there and they're not buying, well good thing you didn't create it, because we need to first work on the messaging and the positioning of this course. That way, you can fine-tune that before you move on to actually creating this thing and positioning it in a real course setting.

Number two, you're allowing those people who can get in early to feel a little bit more special because now you are building it with them, and you're able to have them have a little bit more access to you up front when you are building this and you're coming out with the modules every week or whatever, or even having calls live with them that then get recorded and then put into your course.

You're building it with your customers in a way, such that you're not building this . . . a lot of people that create online courses, they have the information in their head and they put it into this course and it turns into that universal remote control that we have with our DVR that has five thousand buttons on it. We actually only use four of them. This allows you to make sure you structure the course and have the material that only you need to help and not everything else that you think they need that would then turn it into a more overwhelming process or give them information that dilutes the true power of that course. A lot of people like it also, because they can have that feedback along the way as they are coming out with the modules. It's less pressure.

That's what I would recommend for many people. Not necessarily saying this is what you need to do, but I'm just presenting this as an option, instead of building the course and having the technology created, and then it's there and it's packaged and ready to go and then you sell it. You can have all that information ready to create and put into a course after you get people who essentially voted with their money, “Yes, I want this thing.” And you can give them a discount for coming in early. You can only limit it to a certain amount of people so you can make sure it is great and is something you want to do.

If you don't get a lot of people—maybe you get two people who buy it and you're like, “that's not enough”—you can just refund those people. It really adds a layer of protection and safety versus something that you have to worry about it.

Lisa Bunnage: So it's testing the market.

Pat Flynn: It's testing the market. And testing you—is this something that you actually want to do?

Lisa Bunnage: Yeah, that's very clever. I like that. Also, you said something that I'm a little bit confused by, is you said that I could be asking them questions. Are they aware that they're building this with me?

Pat Flynn: Yes. Yes, you want to be honest about that.

Lisa Bunnage: Oh, okay.

Pat Flynn: Essentially, you frame it as, “Hey, we're going to do a four week or eight week course together and this is for the first go around.” That way, they're there with you and you should tell them, you know, “I will be packaging this into an online course after this is complete. But the benefit of coming on now is, you get a little bit of access to me along the way so I can make sure I plug in all the holes and you get all your questions answered,” which benefits them obviously, but benefits you because now you're building the course with those holes being filled in along the way.

Lisa Bunnage: Oh, that's very clever. I like that.

Pat Flynn: So again, it just kind of creates a layer of safety and a layer of just making sure you're giving them all they need, versus you selling this course and then all of the sudden you get a barrage of questions—”but what about this, but what about this?” Now, it's all filled out. And then by the end of it they've gone through this more hand-holding program and process with you, at the end, you will have made change in their lives.

You will have people who would be likely very happy to leave you a testimonial so that when you launch this for real as an online course, now you have real life case studies and real life people who have gone through the process, who are likely going to give you amazing feedback that will help convince a person who is unsure, who is thinking to themselves, “I don't know if this is for me. Oh, but here's a testimonial from Lisa, who said that now she has this amazing relationship with her kid because she went through a program like this. Well, yeah, I think I should do this.”

Lisa Bunnage: That's very clever because you're right, when you're the expert, you do tend to tell them what you think they need to hear, but they don't necessarily want to hear it. Or they don't know they need to hear it.

Pat Flynn: Exactly.

Lisa Bunnage: But you can format that in such a way that you can ease them into it in their own language and their own path. Yeah, I like that, actually. I really like that.

I was just going to say, I'm definitely going to have to look more into pre-selling because I did see it more as a discomfort, but you're right. If it doesn't work out, I could just refund their money anyway. So what's the big deal?

Pat Flynn: Right.

Lisa Bunnage: Right. Right. I never thought about that. Okay, I like that.

Pat Flynn: And my goal with teaching online business and coaching people is just, essentially take the guesswork out and remove as much work as possible that may not be necessary. That's kind of what we're doing here.

You had asked a question earlier about podcasting and getting exposure. From what I'm hearing from you, and the voice and your stories, and you say you're a comedian and I can sense in your teaching—just very entertaining, value-tainment, or edumatainment, or whatever those words are now. A podcast might be a great platform for you to build that relationship first, to help people realize that they should learn more from you.

You can obviously offer tips and strategies and have parents come on to talk about their own situations, which would likely trigger a person to go, “Wow, I'm just like that person,” or “that tip was really helpful. I need some help. I'm looking for a program and I know Lisa now and she's really helpful. I think that she's the person I should go to. And, wow, she has this course or this program now where I can get more from her and I like her already.” It's not you talking and selling to a stranger. It's you essentially offering a solution to people who know you for you and who like your style.

That's what a podcast has really done for me, is allowed me to build a relationship before any sort of transactions happen, whether it's an email transaction or a paid transaction. There's obviously—you can't just snap your fingers and create a podcast, but there are . . . I think the purpose of the podcast is really what should drive you more than anything.

Can you imagine doing a podcast, and how would it feel if you had that available as a buffer between when people find you, you're able to give them value, and then they can now see that you are the expert that they should go to?

Lisa Bunnage: I think I would really enjoy that. I've done a lot of TV and radio throughout the years. I definitely prefer radio because you don't have to worry about how you look or anything. You just talk. I love that idea. I love the idea of providing free content for people, too. I think if you really have your heart in your business and you really care about people, you're going to give them all your information for free . . . it's out there, it's just that when you sell a course, you've packaged it up for them.

Pat Flynn: Right.

Lisa Bunnage: I like helping parents without them even having to pay, too. To me, that would be—I could offer free coaching. Well, like what you're doing with me, right? You're making me part of a podcast and it's a free coaching session for me so it's win-win and what am I going to do after this? I'm going to go out and rave about how great you are and so a podcast is just such a . . . I think it's a really warm, safe environment. TV is different, video is different.

Although, do you think—I don't know if you do this actually. I know you do it with some of them—do you think it's wise to do every podcast, turn it into a YouTube video and a blog?

Pat Flynn: I think turning it into . . . It should be on your blog, for sure, as show notes. It's findable in Google; there's a lot of value there in that. Some people don't have the time to listen, so they could read the transcript or see what you're talking about on the blog.

YouTube, though, taking an audio file directly from a podcast and putting it into YouTube, I wouldn't recommend that. I would take bits and pieces of it because YouTube is for more chunkable pieces of content that are related to specific things. On a podcast, often you're talking about many different things.

I think—unless you have a name that's very well-known where the name alone can keep people listening no matter what's on the screen—where a lot of YouTubers struggle is they don't realize that if a person watches a video and then leaves because there's nothing visual there, they're not enjoying it. They're just looking at a talking head the whole time or whatever—it sends signals to YouTube that, “Hey, this content isn't valuable for these keywords. This channel isn't valuable for that topic”. Watch-time and keeping people on for a long time and watching all the way through a video is more important.

You can take bits and pieces of it and turn it into a really high-engaged video with some slides on top of it. It would take some additional work to do that. You can repurpose it, for sure. I know some people who do that. I know some people who actually go live and answer questions in person and then take a lot of that content, put it into an audio file and then turn that into a blog, too. There are ways to do that.

I agree with you. I think what's cool about this, is if your podcast becomes your thing for free content and the thing that you basically point people to more than anything, they listen to you. They get to know you, they might—that might be it for them, but you're still helping them. They get to know you and maybe they have a friend who wants more information and they go to you. Maybe they buy. But here's the thing, now you have, when people find you, you have something for free they can download and consume that gets them to know you. Then you also have the mid-level item, which is the course. “Hey, you got this free stuff, let me walk you through the entire process. All of the stuff you need conveniently in one place, it's going to . . .” The biggest thing with a course is you want to make sure there's a very specific outcome. A lot of course creators struggle because they don't—they haven't nailed down that promise and that transformation.

When a person can realize, when they go to that sales page when you pitch the course, what they're going to get on the other end of it, it's very clear in their head, “I need this,” or, “I don't need this.” It's very clear for you, “Here's what I'm going to deliver. Here's what it's not.” I've struggled with that before, in trying to create something a little bit too—tries to capture too many people and it actually doesn't help anybody.

Then, you also have, likely, your high-level coaching, where you charge a premium price. What's cool about this is now you have people who come in and they see all these offerings, and maybe they want the coaching, but they can't afford the coaching so now you have the course to help them. You're likely going to have people take the course and go, “You know what, I love this but I need some more help. I need more one-to-one time with Lisa.” Now you have your coaching.

I would probably recommend even increasing the pricing of your coaching if you want to actually start filtering people out of that into your course, and it would essentially anchor the price of your course offerings, and even provide more value, give a sense of more value being provided on the course. All those things work together. This is a very, very common, but very powerful structure in terms of free, course, and then coaching. That's a great plan, I feel.

With the course specifically though, the last thing I want to touch on is, you asked about, should it be for toddlers. Should it be for teenagers? Should it be for parents who are pregnant? I would select one of those and have that to start. Then, potentially you can release other courses later for the other ones. I would assume that parenting a toddler is very different than parenting a teenager and there's, although similar aspects that you teach of leadership, the methods and the strategies and the experiences are going to be a little bit different.

Lisa Bunnage: Yes. Can I just ask you quickly, how much do you think I should charge for a course? Let's say it's going to be video, so let's say it's twenty hours. How much, would you think?

Pat Flynn: I would say the number of hours of videos is irrelevant, number one. Which is good. Actually, the less number of hours that people have to watch, the more valuable it is because they can get that solution in a quicker time period.

In the past, the trend was, “Let me put 250 hours in here because that shows that there's more stuff in here and that's good”. Now people don't have the time to watch 250 hours. My favorite course is one where literally there's five videos that are twenty minutes each and it's the best course I've ever taken. I pay for it every single year. If you could provide it in a shorter period of time, it's actually going to be more valuable. Just be aware of that.

I think what you have to pay attention to, is what is the outcome going to be? How are people's lives going to be changed and how much is that worth to somebody?

One place to start with pricing is to look to see what other options are out there and to compare yours to theirs. That gives you a sense of how much the market is paying for such items. Although yours will obviously be different, potentially higher value, you can charge as such.

Also, compared to your coaching, essentially coaching can be three to four times more than the course. If the course, if you do the math, doesn't seem like much, then maybe that means you have to increase the price of your coaching. I don't know how much your coaching is but then, like I said, it's going to take some experimentation, too.

From my perspective as a parent, depending on the kinds of things you're going to teach me, I would pay for a course where I have a video from a person I trust to help me solve my parenting problems. Especially if it's a teenager who's just, “I cannot anymore.” I would pay $1,000 easy, if I knew that after three weeks I go through this, implement, I see results. To me, that's priceless. I would definitely not charge $27 or $97. That, to me is just like, “Oh, this is a cheap course that's not going to do anything for me.” I would definitely charge a premium for it.

Lisa Bunnage: Mm-hmm. Well, I do see it as a transformation, I don't see it as just a couple little tips. It's going to be a ton of stuff put in there. Like you said, I've got to be careful with that because I don't want to overload them either. I'm very aware. When I first started coaching I used to just tell them so much in the first session. I thought, “slow down.” I have so much information to share, but I realize, they have to absorb that and be able to implement it week to week.

Listen, Pat, that's amazing. I love . . . I would say, my takeaway from you in this would be about focus on the outcome. That is so important. I've heard that before, but it's everything, isn't it? I think, you're very good at that. I've watched you—and I'm always analyzing everyone—I think you're very good at that.

Pat Flynn: Thank you.

Lisa Bunnage: I'm going to take a look at your website, too and check it out more, because you're exceptionally good at getting me going, “Yeah, yeah, I get that. I relate to that.” That's a real gift. Not everyone can do that.

Pat Flynn: Oh, I'm sure when you coach, you get those head nods, too. Like, “Yeah, I know I should do that.” Or, “Yeah, I probably shouldn't have done that.” That's what good coaches do.

You're changing people's lives, and literally, the relationship that you are giving to parents with their kids is so invaluable. I know we're in the nuances of coaching and courses and stuff, but just don't forget, like I said, exactly what kind of gift you're giving to people. It's worth so much, Lisa.

Lisa Bunnage: Yeah. That's how I . . . I'll be honest, that's how I feel after all these years.

Pat Flynn: Good.

Lisa Bunnage: I feel really proud. I'm really proud of the work I've done with these parents. I just love them, I really do. When they contact me years later and tell me what a difference I've made, or they just want to connect and say hi, it's just beautiful. I feel very fortunate to have found what I love to do. It's just a matter of getting out there and helping more people, basically.

Pat Flynn: Yep. This course will allow you to do that, for sure, in a scalable way, and give you an offering that you can offer people who can't afford your coaching.

Lisa Bunnage: Yeah, that's true.

Pat Flynn: It's a great thing.

Lisa Bunnage: That's important. And that's important, too: There's lots of people out there who need help but can't afford to hire a coach. It's important to reach everybody.

Pat Flynn: Well, Lisa, where can people go to get more information about you and what you do? Maybe they need some parenting help. Where should they go?

Lisa Bunnage: Well, my website is called BratBusters and that name was actually made up by a troubled teen I was coaching. They said, “You're always busting brats, so call yourself BratBusters.” I said okay, because I liked him and I trusted what he said.

Pat Flynn: Yeah, yeah.

Lisa Bunnage: So, BratBusters, and I'm in Vancouver, Canada, but I coach people all over the world via Skype. It's very interesting, actually, when you coach different cultures. It's wonderful. I'm very fortunate.

Pat Flynn: Well, congratulations, Lisa.

Lisa Bunnage: Thank you for this time, Pat. You're a wealth of information. I'm going to absorb and take more notes after this, and definitely going to focus more on the outcome because I agree that's extremely important.

Pat Flynn: The outcome. And do what you can to take the guesswork out of it, too.

Lisa Bunnage: Yeah, yeah. Okay, well thanks so much. It's been wonderful.

Pat Flynn: Yeah. Thanks, Lisa. Take care.

Lisa Bunnage: Thank you. Bye now.

Pat Flynn: Bye.

All right. I hope you enjoyed that coaching session with Lisa. Lisa, thank you so much for coming in and being open and vulnerable and being awesome. Like I said, I encourage everybody to go check you out if they need help with the parenting stuff, because that's super important.

Thank you so much. Thank you to all the listeners out there and for sticking around. I appreciate you. And hey, if this is a show that you like, if you like this format and this is your thing, hit subscribe on your device right now. Really quick. Just pull it out of your pocket. Make sure you hit subscribe, because we've got more episodes coming your way.

Again, big thanks to FreshBooks for sponsoring the show. FreshBooks.com/askpat for that thirty-day free trial.

Then, finally, hey, I appreciate you guys. Thank you so much and I look forward to serving you in the next episode. Cheers.