AP 1125: I Feel Like I Have to Start Over. What Do I Do?

AP 1125: I Feel Like I Have to Start Over—What Do I Do? Chapin Kreuter

Pat Flynn:
What's up, everybody? Pat Flynn here, and welcome to episode 1,125 of AskPat 2.0. You're about to listen to a coaching call between myself and an entrepreneur just like you. And today we're talking with Chapin Kreuter from the Misfits and Rejects Podcast. You can check him out on any podcast app that you're on right now. However, we do need to talk to Chapin because he's been going through some stuff. In fact, he's going to give you the short of it at the beginning of the episode and it's pretty dramatic. I just want to let you know, however we help each other through it, we help him get some realizations so we can break out of this and not start over, but start better.

Pat:
Because we thought that things were one way and then they weren't. Anyway, I know I'm sounding very mysterious right now, but I think we should just get right into it, right? Because hopefully this doesn't happen to you, but if it does, you'll be better equipped because of listening to this show. So here we go. Chapin, welcome to AskPat 2.0. Thanks so much for being here, man.

Chapin Kreuter:
Hey, thanks for having me, Pat.

Pat:
So I hear there's some stuff happening that was quite unexpected, and I'd love for you to help us a little bit understand more about what's going on and we can do what we can to help and serve you. Tell us a little bit about yourself as well.

Chapin:
Awesome, Pat. Yeah, thanks again for having me. My name is Chapin Kreuter and I found you in 2014. I had been living in Nicaragua for about 10 years, came back due to some family reasons and really wanted to get back on the road. Smart Passive Income has been such a changing point for me in my life since I found you and online entrepreneurship. Anyways, fast forward to a year and a half after listening to your podcast, I had an idea for multiple years prior to that that after hearing your podcast, I realized that podcast would be a good medium to bring life to my idea, which was called Misfits and Rejects. It's a podcast about expatriates.

Chapin:
All these beautiful individuals I meet on my travels in these locations around the world that I reside, I mean, these people have some of the most incredible stories and I really wanted to bring it to the forefront of a conversation and hopefully inspire a lot of people who are stuck in life situations that they were unhappy in. So I did. I created a podcast four and a half years ago and did it through Squarespace because I was new to the online entrepreneurship game. Didn't really know where to start. And Squarespace's analytics has been notifying me every week, every month that I'm growing. I have growing audience exciting, 300, 500, 1000.

Chapin:
At the peak about a year and a half ago, I was at like 5,500 listeners per week, which in my mind napkin math, it's like 20,000 listeners a month. So I think I have an audience and I was doing everything that you said. I'm like, "Please hit subscribe," in my intro. "Hey, I'd like to get to know you as an audience." Like, "I'll give you a free t-shirt to the first five people who reach out and let me know why they listen, what they like." I've been doing that for years. And I was always getting crickets. And I'm just like, how does 20,000 people, like not one person gets back to me?

Chapin:
So three weeks ago, I tried to monetize it and I had to get a third party app involved. And so I chose Chartable because it was free. Chartable, once they brought in my data, basically said that I was getting less than 10 listeners per episode, which was a huge shock. I couldn't believe it, didn't believe it, still don't believe it. So I went to another third party app, Blubrry, and got their stats involved. I'm paying five bucks a month for that, got on the phone with their—I don't know if he was a CEO or whatnot—and basically said, "Listen, dude, your stats are telling me I have less than a 100, around 100 per episode. What's the deal? Because Squarespace is telling me something completely different."

Chapin:
He just basically broke it down saying, Squarespace is a blogging site. They don't abide by the criteria in which a lot of these podcasting sites do. So Squarespace is counting pretty much every download, if it's downloading say like five megabyte chunks, that's five downloads if it's a 25 megabyte file. So hugely inflated stats. And as it stands right now, Pat, I have on average, 100 listeners per episode, and it's a huge blow to the ego after four and a half years of doing this, following a lot of what you talk about and not seeing the results that I thought I was going to see at this point.

Pat:
Yeah, [inaudible 00:04:22]. First of all, Chapin, I'm sorry to hear that. I can imagine how you're feeling. You're feeling duped, you're feeling upset and just feeling like perhaps all of this was a waste of time, all those kinds of things and more I'm sure. So tell me a little bit more about where you are imagining going from here. What I can help you with exactly. Obviously I have some thoughts going across my mind in terms of where we can go, but I want to hear from you sort of, also what are your goals? Where do you eventually want to end up at?

Chapin:
At this point in the last three weeks, I've been reaching out to my network of people. I think you know them, Dan Ian from the Dynamite Circle, that whole group has been tremendously helpful for me, refocusing, getting motivated. And I think I'm going to focus on YouTube. I think I'm going to take this onto YouTube, give it a more visual aesthetic I think. Because again, I'm in a lot of beautiful places, again with some very interesting, sometimes very eccentric people. If I could capture that, I think that would capture an audience. Some of the people that I've been corresponding with have made some very good points, which we can talk about, but I'm here with you to just be like, what have I done wrong, dude?

Chapin:
How did I miss the mark on this? What should I be doing better? I'm here to just like, I'll do whatever you tell me, dude. I'm here to just throw myself at the mercy of the podcasting court and say like, "help me please, help me be a better podcaster."

Pat:
Yeah. And again, it's unfortunate because we rely on as many analytics as we can get our hands on to understand what we can do differently or what we can do better. And the fact that you didn't know that you only had such a small pool of people following you, you probably would have taken action sooner, right? Perhaps gotten on YouTube sooner. Perhaps done other things differently knowing within the first year you were getting smaller numbers. And to think that you were growing is tough because, again, you weren't like you thought, and then therefore you weren't able to take the actions required to grow.

Pat:
And so what we can do is almost essentially think of where we're at now as like a new starting point, right? You're not starting from scratch again, there's a number of things here. And I love what Dan Ian and I are saying about going to YouTube. I think that the beauty of YouTube especially is the visuals. And if you're talking about doing these interviews in different places, that's really exciting. You can use that backdrop to really get people excited and interested in these podcasts that you're doing, video podcasting much like how Joe Rogan and MKBHD and Peter McKinnon are doing right now are on the up and up, right?

Pat:
That's a big trend that's happening right now. And thankfully, this four years of experience has allowed you to grow your network. So not all is lost there, right? It's allowed you to become a better communicator I'm sure, which is just an amazing byproduct of starting a podcast. And although it's not 20,000 per week or per month, and it's 100 people, I mean, 100 are people still worthwhile to dig into and learn about who they are and exactly, I don't know if they're on your email list or what, but any sort of conversations that you can have with those people can hopefully bring back to light the reason why you're trying to do this in the first place.

Pat:
And then now we're going to pivot and make decisions on, okay, well, what's going to help us get out there? I don't know if you've been doing a lot of podcast interviews on other people's shows. A lot of podcasters love interviewing other podcasters. And an experienced one at that, you'd have a big pool of resources and information and knowledge in this field that you're in to share on others' shows and perhaps grow your show faster. And in fact, that's the number one way a lot of my students are growing their podcasts nowadays is getting on other people's shows versus thinking 100 percent about who can come on their show.

Pat:
I don't know if you've thought about how you might take this experience and plus this story is just such a relatable sort of like we can all feel for you, right? And this is something that is worth sharing and potentially can get you on the map in other spaces that other people wouldn't have normally found you—like here on AskPat people are hearing about this. And so one more time, what's the podcast name and where can people go find it?

Chapin:
It's called Misfits and Rejects, and you can find it on iTunes, Spotify, my website, misfitsandrejects.com, anywhere basically.

Pat:
Cool. Yeah. So all the places. So it's not like you're starting from scratch, but you are going to have to really hone in on, okay, well, let's figure out what we can do from this point forward to grow. I think YouTube is a great strategy. And I think getting on other people's shows, if you haven't done that already is worthwhile to do too. Also, infiltrating and getting into different groups where your podcasts would likely be of value to them. For example, I'm sure there's some Facebook groups and other programs and places that you can go and actually add value to, but you don't want to go in these groups and just start promoting your own stuff like, "Hey, come follow me."

Pat:
You want to actually do what you can to perhaps feature, and this is a strategy that I teach a lot of my students as well that's working really well for rapid growth. And that is, finding groups out there on LinkedIn and Facebook and inviting them on your show, like the admins or the moderators to have them teach and tell their story or become a platform where they get a chance to shine a little bit. And then they're going to take that and go back to those groups and share that show in front of everybody else. And now it's getting endorsed by the leader of those groups versus somebody coming and just, sort of on the outside coming in and sharing their own stuff, which can come across as spammy and whatnot.

Pat:
But if I were you, I would try to get on a call with these 100 subscribers of yours and to try to get to know them. I promise you, it's going to at least give you some motivation in terms of, well, there are some people here, some real life human beings who are getting value and do need some help and do have questions and can fire me up to take this next step into the next arena. Because you've been playing in an arena that you thought you were in and just wasn't working out. So that's where I would start just to kind of re-motivate you in terms of why you're doing this and who you're doing this for. And then let's try to find other people like them out there in these other spots.

Chapin:
I like it. Yeah. I think that came up in one of my conversations with somebody in the Dynamite Circle and he made a good point. It's like, am I reaching my target audience? And like, I don't know. And even the 100 people that follow me, I don't know why they follow me. I have a conversation with one on Friday and I have started reaching out and trying again and again, I'm making a special extra podcast this week to my audience which is, it's this exact same conversation we're having to those 100 people. Like I know you're out there. There's 100 of you. I want to hear from you.

Pat:
Can you define for us who your target audience is? Let's play around there for a little bit.

Chapin:
Absolutely. So my target audience was the person driving on the 405 every morning to Los Angeles, going to a job they hate, imagining a life that they've always dreamed of outside of America possibly, or taking that first trip that they've never taken because they're afraid due to the sensationalization of the outside world on American media. And really trying to give that person the courage to take that first step through these stories. The stories I bring on are just so vast. I'm always just trying to have my one audience member connect with one aspect of the person's story.

Chapin:
Whether it's like, I just interviewed a guy who has really bad diabetes and it's like, but he still travels. He has a family, he lives outside of America in India where it's like, he needs a specific type of insulin, but he's still rocking it and a very successful online entrepreneur with his family living on the road. And it's like, if someone can connect with that story and be like, "Well, if he can do it, I can do it," then that's who I'd like to touch and connect and motivate. And that's kind of who I've always thought was listening basically.

Pat:
Let's say there's somebody who you believe fits that description listening right now, talk to them. How would you tell them about your show? And I'm going to play that role and perhaps ask you some questions and dig a little bit deeper so we can really nail that. Because I think that that's a really important aspect that we need to nail, absolutely nail upfront such that it's so obvious that if I'm in your target audience, that you are the guy that I need to be listening to, that I need to hit subscribe right now and I'm going to binge listen to your show. And this is something that's always possible, but we have to have a connection.

Pat:
We have to have that messaging be very clear because now that podcasting is growing in popularity, I have a lot of options, right? And there's a lot of other people who want to help the person driving on the 405 who is struggling. And I need to know a little bit more about what's unique about your show. So why don't you speak to the listener or to me and just tell me why I need to listen to your podcast.

Chapin:
Great, Pat. I mean, you're so intuitive, man. This is where my head's been at as well. So it's like, my tagline is essentially like, Misfits and Rejects is a podcast about the lifestyle design of expatriates, travelers, entrepreneurs, and adventures, full stop. And I thought that was going to hook somebody. But where my head's at, just like yours went naturally is like, I'm maybe not articulating it correctly. It needs to maybe be something else, which is why I think these are going to be helpful conversations.

Chapin:
That's what I had always been thinking was the right tagline. But it sounds like maybe I need to rework that and maybe it's got to be something else like, Misfits and Rejects is a podcast about setting yourself free from the nine to five, or something like that.

Pat:
That's even more clear in terms of just, I can understand, okay, I have an nine to five, therefore I fit this bill and I'm also not liking it. And let me see what Chapin has to offer me. Now that's more clear versus some people who are adventurers might not consider themselves an adventurer, right? And this term, lifestyle design, has also been thrown around in a way where it sort of just has a much more general meaning now versus like you said, hey, if you have a nine to five and you hate it, this is the show for you. And it's just much more clear for a person to go, "Oh, that is me." And also on the other end, "Oh, that is not me. I'm out."

Pat:
Or, "Hey, I know somebody, I'm not that person, but I know somebody who is that, let me feed this podcast their way." And that messaging, although I like the tagline in terms of its eloquence and it's well written, it doesn't necessarily hit home. We need a "hell yes" response. So sometimes when you get more general like, "Oh you could be this, an expat, a traveler, or an entrepreneur," it's like, well, I'm an entrepreneur, but I don't travel. So that doesn't fit. Or, I'm an expat, but I don't feel that adventurous, I just want to settle. Well, then I don't fit either.

Pat:
So although you're trying to capture more people with a wider net, I think it's more about emotion and ultimate goal versus maybe who they are. I don't know. I'm just kind of riffing with you here. Where's your head at?

Chapin:
I agree 100 percent. And I'm apprehensive and fearful even though I will progress with it, I think it's good your audience knows where my head's at. It's like, just that change sounds drastic. It's going to change my intro, the music will be the same, but obviously the verbiage will be different. And I have that little gut, like, oh no, this could really send me in a direction that is even worse. It's like...

Pat:
Yeah, but I mean, it hasn't been working out the way you thought and change does not mean permanent change; change means just, let's try a different way to pivot around this brick wall that's in front of me. I tried going through it, it's not working. Let's try going above it. Let's try going around it. And this is just one example of a different way you could approach it. But these conversations, I think your head's in the right space in terms of how important they are. I'm thrilled that you've already scheduled them. And you want to ask those deep questions that probably have answers that maybe you don't want to hear.

Pat:
I know there're so many different ways that you could go. I mean, I would definitely ask questions in terms of like, how did you find out about the show? What attracted you to the show and what is your favorite kind of content that you enjoy listening on the show? What is something that's missing, that's not here? What is something that you worry about with me as the host and the show? And just like all these kinds of questions can really bring into light, especially when you hear it from a person who listens to you, it's just that much more meaningful, even more meaningful than a survey or reply on an email.

Pat:
So although it sucks that we are feeling like we are starting over, I feel like essentially it's just a pivot. It's a pivot point. And that's exciting because when you pivot and you learn, you can't help but move on to the next phase. And I don't see it, as long as you have the idea of always making it more clear for your audience and providing more value to them, if that's at the crux of these decisions, I don't think there's any way that it could change for the worse.

Chapin:
No, agreed 100 percent. Yeah, I will continue to push forward and make those minor changes and tweaks.

Pat:
What else are you worried about?

Chapin:
I mean, this has really just lit a fire under my butt to like figure it out. And I'm not per se worried, but yeah, change is always uncomfortable I guess. And I want to nail it, dude. I've set my goals and bar even higher now. It's like, I want to get 1,000,000 YouTube subscribers in the next year. And if I hit 100,000, then yippee. But it's like, I mean, that's where my head's going. And so it's also, it's one of those things that this doesn't come naturally. I'm not intuitive with any of this online stuff. So it takes, for me, it feels like extra long, which is always frustrating.

Chapin:
I mean, I wasn't going to quit after this happened. I was going to keep going because I love these people. I love all these beautiful misfits and rejects in the world. I'll put the microphone in front of anybody I think is interesting whether you're listening or not.

Pat:
And when you combine that with understanding who is listening and what they want, I mean, that's a match made in heaven. You're doing all the hard work. Now we just need to connect you with the audience that's out there. You know people want this, you know people need this, right? And that should be the big driver here. I mean, or else you wouldn't have done this for four years, and I just want to encourage you as well. There's a lot of creators who I know who have spent years on their craft and getting better and that hard work can eventually get to that inflection point where boom, it starts to feel like it was worth it.

Pat:
It might not feel that right now, and oftentimes you hear about this thing called the dip, like what Seth Godin talks about. It's just like this low point that can happen right before the big growth eventually can start to happen. It's like a dip and then a huge rise or a hockey stick like curve. And we're seeing this right now on YouTube, especially with people like, think of MKBHD, who is a big tech reviewer. His first 100 videos for his first two years of his YouTube journey were for just a 100 subscribers only. In fact, that's something he mentioned in an interview. His first 100 videos were for his first 100 subscribers.

Pat:
And now he's at 11 million subscribers. Even Mr. Beast, I don't know if you know who Mr. Beast is. But he's this big YouTuber who last year after doing this for like eight years, last year he gained 15 million new subscribers because he found his voice, he found his audience, and he knows the formula now. And it took him years to get there. For a while it was just him shooting Minecraft and video game videos. But now he does these really big challenges with big, giant giveaways. And he just knows who his audience is and how to talk to them and how to get them excited. He also, and MKBHD, and a lot of these creators are starting to understand, especially on YouTube, but also for podcasting...

Pat:
It's just as important to think about the algorithms and the things that are at play that could help support you. So the hook at the beginning of your podcast episodes or the hook at the beginning of your videos, you have a little bit more time on a podcast. You have like 30 seconds to a minute upfront to let people know why they need to listen all the way through and hopefully encourage them to the point where they either join your community, subscribe to your email list, or reach back out to you. And on YouTube, you have even shorter period of time. You have about eight to 10 seconds in the beginning of a video to really hook people in.

Pat:
"Hey, this is what you're going to learn in this video. This is why you need to stick around. And this is what you lose out on if you don't." So same thing with your podcasts, very quickly up front in a video especially, help people who are just tuning in for the first time. Imagine they don't know anything about you or what's going to happen. You need to tell them what's in it for them. And I don't know, I haven't listened to the episodes that you have and the intros, but the quicker that you can get to showing and sharing that you have something worth sticking around for, everything starts to happen from there, right?

Pat:
Because you've hooked them in, they've put that phone in their pocket and they're ready to start running. And then they're listening to you as they're doing so. And of course with longer watch time or longer listen time, people can't help but build a relationship with you or want to share your show with other people and talk about it at dinner, all that kind of stuff. And then the final thing I want to share is, what, there's a lot of people targeting the same audience as you. I would consider, what's the thing that Chapin is going to become known for related to this space. So you do interviews and you help inspire. Cool. Other people do that too.

Pat:
But what is it about the way that you do it that can in just a sentence, blow my mind in a way that makes me go, whoa, or helps me share this, "Hey you all, if you are wanting to leave your job, you got to listen to Chapin because he's, out of everybody who talks about this kind of stuff, he's the only one that blank, right? Whatever that blank is. And you as a creator can put whatever you want in there in that blank. Maybe it's, you got to listen to Chapin because literally in every episode, I end up crying and it's so emotional. I just get so involved in his stories. Or, he's the only one that really like, he's just so funny in each of them.

Pat:
He takes these really deep things and he makes them enjoyable and interesting and helps me learn through jokes and laughing. I don't know what your thing is, but you have to have something. And it doesn't necessarily mean you have to have like a shtick, you have to put comedy into it, don't force it. But we have to have whatever's inside of you come out and show up and be obvious. And you can even own that like, hey... Like, for me, for example, I know that I own the entrepreneurial space in terms of combining entrepreneurial strategies with raising a family at the same time. I know and I've leaned into that.

Pat:
This is why you see me on my Instagram and on Twitter talk about my family quite a bit, or the fact that I want to start schools in the future. That's become a part of who I am and what my voice is, and that's unique to me. So other families out there go, "Oh, you got to check out Pat Flynn because he's like one of the only ones out there that talks about it in terms of making money so that you can spend more time with your family." And that's not something I learned upfront, but through these conversations, I started to notice these patterns.

Pat:
So let's find out what you can lean into. You're not going to know this right now. Through these conversations or a lot of internal dialogue or conversations with other friends of yours, colleagues, this can surface and find that thing that you can lean into would be my final point here.

Chapin:
No, that's a beautiful dime you just gave me. Thank you, man. And it's so funny because I've listened to you a long time, I never would have pegged you as being that person that was doing that on purpose. It just seemed natural.

Pat:
Oh totally. People started telling me when I started putting Back to the Future in my stuff, you know me for being a fan. I mean, I was like, that's weird, but I'm going to run with it. And I am a huge Back to the Future fan and I put that in a couple of things just because that's part of who I am. So that in of itself allows me to connect because that's stuff you know about friends, right? Like those random facts, but that's just become something that I've noticed that my audience really knows me for for whatever reason. And so I'm listening to them now.

Pat:
And so now when I just am doing a live stream, I might drop in, if I'm going to go, if I'm going to mention like I'm going to go back into time to talk about something I wish I would've done differently, I always add in, "I'm going to go into the DeLorean and we're going to go back into time and talk to my younger self." Or I have t-shirts or whatever that's just like, [inaudible 00:23:31] and I don't mention it explicitly every time either. It's just something that you get to know about me over time.

Pat:
And so these little things about you that perhaps your audience can get to know you a little bit more with can be great to sort of include too. Like if I were to ask you, Chapin, what's one thing outside of the podcast that is of interest to you, tell us really quick, what's unique about you or what's your hobby or what's some fun thing that is pretty unique to you?

Chapin:
I mean, surfing, I guess is a huge part of my life. I've been living in Nicaragua for 10 years and running surf tours. And that was my first online entrepreneurial adventure, trying to start an online surf instruction business, which-

Pat:
That's dope, I was at the beach yesterday and I know a lot of people like James Schramko from SuperFastBusiness who is also an avid surfer. So now you could perhaps go to one of his events in Bali or wherever he does it and do a surf thing. He combined surfing with entrepreneurship too. I mean, you can have a connection there through these little fun facts. And so anybody else out there who surfs too will be like, "Oh, dude, I like Chapin. He's a surfer just like me." It doesn't mean you're leaving everybody else out. It just allows people to feel more included in who you are.

Pat:
So yeah, a lot of things here that I think that, and it sounds like you're inspired from this conversation and you have some idea of eventually where you want to end up after this, which is great. That was the whole point of this. Tell us maybe a recap of some of the things you've taken away from this.

Chapin:
You've been a huge help, man. I mean, I love what you just said with the family thing and the conversation I'm having on Friday with a woman in Virginia, I'm going to go through this episode. I'm hoping you can send me this clip and I'll write down all those questions I can ask her and start digging into what that special part of me that I can really add more and give it a flavor. I always thought that just my empathic disarming way which allows people to open up in a way that they normally don't was my super power, which it is, sure. But it's not as in your face as like something else that I can offer.

Chapin:
So I think that's going to be a huge turning point for me when I start injecting more often those things.

Pat:
Yeah. We'll send you this clip. I mean, it won't be live until later in the year, but I will have Jess send you a copy of it so that you can have access to that before Friday. But anyway, Chapin, good luck to you, man. Thank you so much for opening up and being vulnerable here, and thanks for the heads up on Squarespace and their podcast analytics. That's new and definitely something to worry about. So one more time, where can people go to subscribe and check out your podcast?

Chapin:
Please head over to Misfits and Rejects on iTunes, Spotify, whatever podcast player you're listening to this on. And you can check out my website, misfitsandrejects.com.

Pat:
Thanks, Chapin. I appreciate you again. Good luck.

Chapin:
Bye Pat. Ciao. Thank you.

Pat:
All right. I hope you enjoyed that coaching call with Chapin. Again, you can find him at Misfits and Rejects. And just a crazy unfortunate situation with Squarespace and statistics and whatnot. And I'm hopeful that, and I expect that a lot of the stuff that we talked about today is going to be extremely helpful for helping Chapin move forward with growing his show, finding the right people, connecting with the right audiences, and having the success of a show that he thought he had, if not even more. So thank you so much for listening in. I appreciate you.

Pat:
Make sure you hit subscribe if you haven't already, because we have a lot of great episodes coming your way. We're over halfway through the year. And again, remember at the end of the year, we're going to back some people who were featured here on the show—maybe Chapin will be one of them. I'm not sure. You will have to see. Also, if you'd like to get coached by me here on the show, all you have to do is go to askpat.com. And when you go there, you're going to see a link to record, actually fill out an application as well as record a little voicemail for me so we can see if this is going to be a good fit.

Pat:
And I cannot possibly choose everybody, but guaranteed, I will not choose you if you do not do it. So if you want to get coached just like Chapin or Sandy next week or Amanda the week after, we got a lot of great people coming your way with a lot of great knowledge and a lot of big breakthroughs, hopefully we can break through for you too. Askpat.com is the place to go. You can also see the rest of the archive there. And also wherever you're listening to this, you can find the rest of the episodes too. We've got over 1,000 of them you all, and they're here to help you.

Pat:
You can even do some AskPat keyword research on the webpage if you'd like to get specific with certain things that you have going on in your world. Also, by the way, I don't know if you know this, I don't know if you know this, but let me just verify since we're here. Okay. Yeah. This is going to happen. If you go to smartpassiveincome.com/pro, all one word. Smartpassiveincome.com/pro, you're going to see right now at the time of this recording or at the time of this recording coming out, an application to join and become one of the first 500 founding members of our very brand new membership platform.

Pat:
That's right. A membership platform called SPI Pro for people who are committed to building their business, who are committed. These are committed people. That was like a safe place for committed entrepreneurs. That's what we wanted. Because we don't want people in there who are just going to come in and not take action. We also didn't want to have people coming in and just take information from everybody else either. We want a community and we're really excited to open this up for the first time ever right now. And we're taking applications. We're going to let some people in, first come first served depending on applications.

Pat:
All you have to do is go to smartpassiveincome.com/pro. You can learn more there about all that you get, all that's inside. It's not a content play either. It's not like hours and hours and hours and hours of content. It's community. It's gathering. It's application. It's accountability. And it's connection to me, the team, other players in the space. I think you'll love it. Smartpassiveincome.com/pro. No spaces, no dashes. Hope to see you in there. I appreciate you. And we'll see you soon. See you next week. Bye.