How do you create passive income as a coach who spends a lot of time teaching clients directly?
That's what we're talking about today with Maxine Shapiro, a coach with a customer experience podcast called Let's Talk About CEX. She's a former podcast boot camp student of ours, and through her show, she helps business owners create better experiences for their customers and employees.
Problem is, she's feeling like she can't branch out into passive income because the business revolves so much around her.
So we talk about some things she might do to expand her brand and start generating passive income. Can she get creative about how she delivers her knowledge or maybe hire others to help?
If you're also a coach who's wondering how to start generating passive income, this episode will help you get a sense of the opportunities you might have that you're not thinking about yet.
AP 1227: I'm a Coach, So How Do I Get PASSIVE Income?
Pat: What's up, everybody? Pat Flynn here, and welcome to episode 1,227 of AskPat 2.0. You're about to listen in on a coaching call between myself and an entrepreneur just like you. Today, we're talking with Maxine Shapiro, who has a podcast called Let's Talk About CEX or customer experience or she calls it CEX. Anyway, I love it by the way. She's a former podcast boot camp student with us and she's got this incredible show now where she from the heart helps employers help their customers and employees have a much better experience. So we're going to talk today about different things that she might be able to do to expand her brand and to start making passive income in some way, shape or form because a lot of what she does, she comes from years of experience of coaching and consulting and working with companies, keynotes, et cetera.
Pat: And a lot of the work that she does which is more improv based has to happen in person. So if that's the case, how do we generate passive income? So for anybody out there, who's a coach who most of your income is generated through one on one type stuff, where are the income opportunities? Well, we're going to talk about that today with Maxine Shapiro. You can also find her at maxineshapiro.com, and here she is, hope you enjoy.
Pat: Maxine, welcome to AskPat 2.0. I'm looking forward to having a conversation with you today. How are you?
Maxine: I'm terrific. I'm just so grateful to be here with you, Pat.
Pat: I'm grateful you're here too.
Maxine: I got this question. I wish I had a phone straight to you, like a bat phone. Pat's got the answer for everything.
Pat: Right. You know how there's like the bat signal, maybe the Pat signal we need one of those. Why don't you tell us a little bit Maxine about what you do and how you got there?
Maxine: So I train and do keynotes and coach on "collabrocate," which is collaborate, communicate, create these big bold solutions. So for years I have been doing keynotes again and this really great training, I take the application of improvisation and I bring it into business. And what I've been focusing on mostly now is customer experience, employee experience because unless it's improvised, it's going to fall flat. And because of you and the podcasting courses, two years ago I took your course and I went, "I can't do this, I just can't do it." And then you offered the bootcamp last year and I went, "I'm going to this." And if it wasn't for the support of, and Pat'll pay me later on this one... If it wasn't for the support of the group and your staff, I would've never done it but I just published my eighth episode, I have 825 downloads.
Pat: Let's go. That's awesome.
Maxine: I know. And it's all about, the title's cute but it's from the heart. You know, the acronym for customer experience CX, the acronym for employee experience is EX. So it's, Let's talk about CEX, C-E-X, the customer and employee experience.
Pat: I love it. That's so great. Well, congrats on starting the podcast by the way because I know that's a huge hurdle for many people. But before we learn a little bit more about you, how does it feel to now have it out there and you're connecting with these people and there's hundreds of downloads? How do you feel, I hope you feel proud of that?
Maxine: I do. And there's always this... No, I do. Because there was one moment where I went, "But Pat's got 300 million," but you've been on forever. So it does feel good more so I feel like I'm being of service, I really mean that. These people that are coming on are really coming and they're sharing from the gut. You know how it is, you ask the questions and I wouldn't pick people that want to give me this cookie cutter answer to, that's it. And it all boils down to, just talk to your employees, just talk to your customers.
Pat: Yeah. You had given me a little teaser about an episode that you had just recorded which sounds amazing. I'm not going to reveal what that is but can you tell us where could we go to follow you? You had mentioned the podcast name already all about CEX. Is there any website or social media where people can come and follow the journey with you?
Maxine: Oh, thank you. It is, Let's Talk about CEX is the customer employee experience, and that's on Apple and Spotify, et cetera. Maxineshapiro.com is my website and because of what I learned with you, I have speak what is it?
Pat: SpeakPipe, right? Like where people can ask questions?
Maxine: Yeah. Or just tell me their stories, I want to hear stories. People are telling me stories about companies because I'm asking, when was your mind blown by a customer experience? And from See's Candy to Patagonia, people are leaving me their stories and I'm sharing them. And then I got into an interview and it's not with the people that are on the stories but so there's a little microphone and I'm maxineshapiro.com. Let's talk, just click it and I want to hear from you.
Pat: You've got it down. I love it. Oh, I'm so happy to hear that. Congrats. And again, I'm proud of you. Let's talk about not CEX today but let's talk about you. What can I help you with what's on your mind?
Maxine: So for 15 years plus I have been doing this, I was a financial commentator on NPR, I was at Marketplace. I had my own financial radio show. Never really caring how am I going to, I was in this for fun. I've always liked to do things because of the fun of it. And people would go Maxine... And people are putting out books and webinars and then people say, "No, Maxine, you are the product," and I'm going... So I have no passive income whatsoever. And who better to ask than Smart Passive Income. So I need help because how do you teach improv on a webinar? So even though I'm with a slew of people that the applied improvisation network but I, so help.
Pat: Yeah. This is a great question because in many cases the work that you do is so unique that it can only happen in real time and with those people. And I'm sure that through a lot of the conversations and the consulting and the workshops that you do and the live stage stuff that there's a lot of new discoveries that these people have. This is transformational stuff that you are helping people with, am I right?
Maxine: Yeah. Even if I had just fun, I will never do another air quote again. Even if they just have fun, that's huge in this world right now.
Pat: Oh, for sure. I mean, if the bonding that can happen during that time, incredible. But instead of thinking about how do I turn that into a passive income situation, I mean, first of all there are passive income things that you could do whilst sharing those stories on your podcast. For example, you could have eventually advertising and sponsorships. Companies could pay you to get in front of those audiences and that's one way to do it. However, obviously it's going to take some time to get there and to attract those advertisers and sponsors. There's also of course, affiliate marketing which I know you are familiar with. There might be through these discoveries that you have with these companies that you're working with different products that you can offer to help them. You might discover that they have a particular area where they need help and if they were to solve that then things would be much better.
Pat: Well, here is the product that can help you do that. It might not be your product but it could be a product that already exists that you could share and you can create affiliate conversation with them. You could have a rev-share deal or a partnership and it could be even one where maybe they do both. They are a sponsor of the podcast and they're also allowing you to have affiliate income; that's the double dipping of affiliates where you can have both at some point. So again, you can find one or two companies, you might already have some ideas of companies in your mind that you could potentially start a conversation with to do that. But ultimately, the affiliate marketing is relatively easier because you don't have to create those products. You could have that injected into your podcast yesterday but ultimately, creating your own products of sorts would be ideal for passive income of sorts.
Pat: And I can imagine a few things in your future. I do imagine that there could be a book coming your way. That can help you bring more people into your ecosystem. I imagine that the book, although the book is not going to bring millions of dollars in, it will bring millions of potential eyeballs and ears to your show which could help with those other things that we just talked about, of course. And you can get a royalty or you can get payments from those books as well. The audio book, I imagine could play a big role because this is going to be more of an experiential learning process versus a reading learning process, perhaps. And I will tell you that an audio book actually, in my experience makes more money than the physical copy of the book. So again, the book having two purposes, one to make some money and again, you have Amazon as an engine to work for you.
Pat: A book is a great way for you to get on other stages or get on other podcasts. It's a great way for you to build these relationships and bring more people in. The book could also support any products that you do have in the future too. And the beauty of books today is you can easily insert new chapters or change things especially, if it's self-published and then anybody who purchases the next copies has that new thing. So I imagine that there could be a course in your future but you might be like, "Well, I can't teach this stuff I'm teaching in a course or a webinar. That's going to be very difficult." I want to challenge you on that. I mean, you were part of the bootcamp experience so you know what it's like to have a virtual setting to do this and yes, it was live but it was live for many people at once. And although it's not purely passive or a hundred percent passive, it was more passive than one on one, it was one to many and that's sort of like a nice next step.
Maxine: I love that. I really do because that's what I do. I rarely have open workshops. Usually, a company will call me in or an association and especially, because of the pandemic. Yeah, it went online.
Pat: Right. We're all used to it now.
Maxine: Oh, my gosh. It was for years I think, I can't believe how many clients I may have turned down when I, now what I do has to be in person. And then with the pandemic it's like, "Whoa, I love this thing I'm working with." And it was fun and I know how to work with and go through the breakout rooms, et cetera.
Pat: Right. Exactly. Now, imagine you have several companies working with you at the same time and you're even doing some cross-company things that couldn't happen in person, actually. There's actually, some benefits to doing it in this bootcamp style. Now, like I said, it will still take your time especially, the first go around. But one of the bootcamps I did, I wasn't actually there most of the time because I had the right people and you know those people, I mean, they worked with you so you could potentially hire people to fill in those gaps that you would normally fill thus making it more passive and rewarding those people and giving them an opportunity.
Pat: There's a lot of ways to involve, the ideal scenario would be, or not ideal, but the biggest example would be somebody like Dave Ramsey. He's a guy who teaches financial freedom. He's got thousands of people who teach his program. It's still Dave's name on it but he's able to magnify his reach through other coaches that he's hired. How does that sit with you? I mean, we don't have to get to thousands of coaches level but what if there was one or two to help manage these boot camp like situations for you and the companies that come in and maybe the companies could pay you more to get you or they can pay a little bit less to get one of your coaches.
Maxine: I always say, I'm open. Boy, do I feel like blocking? And you were like, what? That means it's going to be extra work. I think part of what I love to do is that I get to be spontaneous, I get to improvise with when I'm there and I like this, I do. And I think that the fact that I'm on a podcast here and this is a nice conversation, thank you very much. And I'll go back to what I'm doing. I think part of the other thing is that I want a little accountability on this. I mean, I know people are watching and listening to you. I'm going to stand up for all those people that go, "But I don't want to do that."
Pat: Right. I mean, this is just an option because you might find that it just doesn't work. I mean, you could find one person, try it once. Well, at least you tried it and you now know that's not going to work. It has to be me, so therefore, how do I make it the least amount of me as possible? Or you might find, "Wow, that was actually, really incredible. Let's double down on that." It's just an option and something to explore but I appreciate you saying that you're in your mind, you have these like pushback feelings already because that's what we all feel. That's the immediate response that we all have to change and things that are new.
Maxine: Yeah. It is. And I'm open or else I wouldn't have asked if you could help me. Because I know you speak to a lot of coaches too. Some of the coaches that I coach also have A, B, C, D, E, F kind of thing and what I do. It's all about, "Are you coming from the heart, are you really asking, how can I be of service?" And yet why not? I'm not comparing myself to this woman at all but Brené Brown doesn't talk to everybody individually so these things can be done.
Pat: And she's very from the heart. I mean, we know this. She's wrote books that express that feeling for sure. So I love that you're finding, this is exactly what we need to do when you are immediately pushing back and creating that story you go, "Wait, is that actually true? Are there other people who are actually doing it the way that I would want to do it?" And you had just mentioned Brené Brown and there's so many others and I love that. Now, you'll have to find your own style. And the other thing is that as long as you find the right... If you have the opportunity to find other people, you want to make sure that they are extensions of you. You don't just find a random person to run an improv thing with a company. You find another heart centered person that is like a clone of you, who you know you could rely on, who may even do things in a way better in some fashion or they have their own superpowers that they could bring to this as well.
Pat: And you can run different groups simultaneously. Now you're able to affect more people or you go back and forth one day at the beginning of the week, it's you and the second half of the week, just like with the boot camps. It was me teaching on Mondays often and then Thursdays, it was the other team members leading things. And because they were heart centered as well just like I am, it fit and it worked perfectly. So there's probably, a way to do it and the fact that you're just not discounting that now is a great sign. But again, there are many other things you could do as well. I imagine that there's a lot of follow up opportunities with companies that you work with. There's the session that you do with them, but there might be ways for something to be included that you create whether it's... Maybe it is a course or something that is a part two, right?
Maxine: Yeah. Oh, my gosh. So I always send a recap of what we did, particular to that group because it is always different. And when you're working with improvisation it just is and that's the beauty of it. But I just thought, what if I did a video of it? They may read it because a lot of these things you go and that's why I don't give people handouts because there're going to put it on their shelf and it will never be seen again. But what if I did it as a video instead?
Pat: That's a great idea.
Maxine: So that they actually do watch it. It's like, okay, this is the first minute. And now that they have... And I don't know when this started but I'm watching on YouTube where you get to put the time, like we do with our podcast, what is that called?
Pat: Yeah, chapters.
Maxine: Yeah. Chapters. And thank you. I mean, serious... I'm going to share my client is just the hotel at Yosemite, and I'll be going there next month. It's a three days of workshops and I think, "Oh my God, I come back and no one reads what I wrote. I love what I wrote but nobody reads." The person that hired me reads and goes, "This is great." But I go, "Your people are not going to read it, come on." But if I did it as a video, playful Maxine and from the heart... Yeah, that's great. And you have been an example of that. I am going to say that because your staff is, that's why I joined this because I could be very cynical when people go, "Hey, I'm going to sell you a course and it's going to change your life."
Maxine: You aren't that, nor are your people. And that's why I'm hanging out here, seriously.
Pat: Thank you Maxine. I do appreciate that a lot. I love the idea of incorporating video. That is a huge value add because you don't have to do that but it is of use, it is value to people. You could charge more for that, that could be included in your package, that could be just a bonus to get people to go, "Wow, this was... You do this for us, wow." I mean, if you want to talk about customer experience that can definitely, add to that. So I love that idea and perhaps, you could do something like, "Hey, for the full video, the full raw video is there for you if you want it and that's just included." But with an extra couple hundred dollars or 500 or however much you want to charge, I'll break it down for you so that these little clips are available and it's going to be more like a library for you.
Pat: And then you don't have to do that. You can pay somebody to chop it up, to turn it into something that becomes a better resource than just a full video that actually, has teaching that can be used for further employee development down the road, perhaps. And that could be inserted into their brand in an interesting way. So again, I'm just brainstorming with you on different ways to add value and perhaps, add product to what you're already offering. A step one is working with you, but here's step two and here's step three and five to 10 and some of these products are mine, some of them are not, some of these things are just bonuses. You could probably, go miles deeper with the same exact company.
Maxine: I love it.
Pat: Awesome. Well, Maxine, this has been really great. I hope that everybody will go check out your podcast all about CEX.
Maxine: No, Let's Talk about CEX.
Pat: Let's Talk about, yes, that's right. And checks out your website, maxineshapiro.com. And I'm looking forward to seeing where this takes us because I know that you are much like many members in SPI Pro. You are an action taker, you are somebody who loves to learn on the go. And that's just what I appreciate so much. And so thank you for being here and opening up for us and I want to wish you the best of luck.
Maxine: Hey, thanks for the brainstorming session. That was beautiful.
Pat: Of course, my pleasure. Take care.
Maxine: You too.
Pat: All right. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Maxine. Again, you can check out her podcast, you can check her out on her website, maxineshapiro.com. And just such a joy to talk to her. She's also a member of SPI Pro and if you want to join us and all the conversations we have within SPI pro, go ahead and go to spipro.com. You can apply there, we have enrollments coming very soon and I look forward to just offering that opportunity again to another group of students in there.
Pat: So you can find out if it's the right fit for you and if we are the right fit for you over at spipro.com. Maxine, thank you so much. I appreciate you and I look forward to hearing more about your journey here and everybody else. And speaking of everybody else, we have a lot of amazing episodes coming up. So make sure you hit that subscribe button here on your favorite podcast app if you haven't already. Thank you for all the reviews that have been coming in this year, I appreciate you and look forward to serving you the next one. Until then cheers, take care and as always, team Flynn for the win. Peace.
Pat: Thanks for listening to AskPat at askpat.com. I'm your host, Pat Flynn. Our senior producer is Sara Jane Hess. Our series producer is David Grabowski and our executive producer is Matt Gartland. Sound editing by Duncan Brown. AskPat is a production of SPI Media. We'll catch you in the next session.