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The Smart Passive Income Podcast

AP 1053: What’s the Best Way to Grow and Scale with All the Options out There I Could Do?

AP 1053: What’s the Best Way to Grow and Scale with All the Options out There I Could Do?

By Pat Flynn on

Jake runs successful sites called and, which is a membership site for worship leaders. He started working in the online space about three years ago now, and has experienced a good deal of growth. He has a lot of long-term plans and wants to continue to develop new content and products: What’s the best way for him to scale and grow even more? There’s an important lesson in this one, so make sure you listen until the end!

In this episode I mention Session 115 of The Smart Passive Income Podcast—”9000 Unread Emails to Inbox Zero: My Executive Assistant Shares How We Did It (and How You Can Too!)”—a great episode to listen to if you’re thinking about hiring someone to handle your communications for you.

Jake’s been in the worship leader space for over a decade, and got into online business three years ago after finding The Smart Passive Income Podcast. He describes how he built his monthly membership site helping worship leaders, which he’s full time with now. How can he simplify his systems, scale, and build a team? What’s his next best step? I offer Jake advice for discerning where he wants to be next, and Jake describes some of his long-term goals for developing content and products. From there we dive into an array of strategies and advice for getting more time back, communicating with site members, repurposing and optimizing content, managing his team, and focusing on the right strategies. I can’t wait to see how Jake continues to progress and grow!

What You’ll Learn:
Uncover tactics for optimizing your team, time, content, and more so you can scale your business to new heights.

AskPat 1053 Episode Transcript

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Pat Flynn: What’s up, everybody. Pat Flynn here and welcome to Episode 1053 of AskPat 2.0. This is a podcast where you get to listen in on a real life coaching call between myself and an entrepreneur just like you. And the goal is for you to listen to this and walk away with some new information, new ideas, new strategies, and motivation to help you grow and scale. Or perhaps even just start your online business.

And today we’re chatting with Jack Gosselin who owns, a recently launched membership site in the worship leader space, you know, the people who sing and they create a lot of energy at a lot of church gatherings and whatnot. And Jake is an amazing person. You’re gonna hear just how much he cares about his audience. But also he’s curious about, okay well now that he’s launched and got started like, what else can he do? And you know, one of the biggest struggles that we entrepreneurs have is looking at everybody else succeed and sharing strategies and you go, “Okay, well, I could do this or I could do that, or this.” Like there’s like, 50,000 things that we could do. How do we know what to do next? How do we grow our business after we’ve just gotten started, got a taste of success, how do we take it to the next level? And you’re gonna be pretty surprised about my answer at the end here because a lot of times . . . I’m not even gonna say. I’m not even gonna say. You’re gonna have to listen all the way through.

And often times this is the best piece of advice. What I offer for Jake is the best piece of advice I could give you, and sometimes that’s what you need to hear. So how’s that for a teaser? Make sure you stick around, hit subscribe if you haven’t already.

And I also wanna give a big shout out, before we get into the conversation with Jake, to FreshBooks. They are sponsoring this episode. They sponsored the show for so long now, and they’re amazing. Not just because of that, but because they have a software that allows you to better organize and remove the headaches in your business through the finances that you have. So income, expenses, and especially your invoices if you do any invoicing. You can create a really, really nice looking invoice in less than thirty seconds with FreshBooks. And you can completely change the game in your business because then you can focus on your business and growing it, rather than the weeds in the finances. [Full Disclosure: As an affiliate, I receive compensation if you purchase through this link.]

So if you wanna check out FreshBooks for free for thirty days and just see how awesome they are, they serve millions of small business owners. I’ve used them myself too. You can go to and just make sure you enter “Ask Pat” in the “How did you hear about us?” section. It’s gonna be awesome. All right, now let’s get to the conversation and call with Jake. Here he is.

Hey, Jake. Thank you so much for being here on AskPat 2.0. Welcome to the show.

Jake Gosselin: Thanks, Pat. I am so pumped to be on the show. Thanks for having me.

Pat Flynn: This’ll be really fun. So, Jake, why don’t you take a quick moment to tell everybody who you are and what you do.

Jake Gosselin: Yeah, my name is Jake Gosselin. I’m based here in Littleton, Colorado, suburb of Denver, with my awesome family. My beautiful wife, Kaylee, our twin 10-month old children, Amos and Galilee. So life‚

Pat Flynn: Wow, twins.

Jake Gosselin: Yeah. Life’s been . . . They’re our first kids, so life’s been really exciting and awesome this year, having them in our life.

Pat Flynn: That’s awesome.

Jake Gosselin: Yeah. It’s been a huge game changer. And my professional background is in the church world, as a worship leader. And basically what a worship leader does at local churches is we’re the ones responsible for planning and preparing and leading the worship music that you’ll hear or sing at churches. And I’ve been doing that for over a decade.

And basically the CliffsNotes version of kinda what happened and what got me into online business, was about three years ago I was working full time as a worship leader. And really loved it. Felt like my dream job, like working my dream job because I just graduated from seminary. And . . . Yeah, just really loved the opportunity to have that position, but I felt like there was just . . . I felt like I was wired for something different and that’s when I discovered kind of a love for entrepreneurship. I had been doing freelance videography, been enjoying that a lot.

And then I just realized, I kinda got to the place at the church I was working at that it just wasn’t a great fit for me and the way that I’m wired and my desire to build things and move things forward. And as I discovered my love for entrepreneurship, I was browsing Apple podcasts one day to learn more about entrepreneurship from podcasts and I came across The Smart Passive Income podcast and kinda the rest is history. That’s what set me on track to build an online business that really centers around my passion in helping people in the worship-leading space. So that was about three years ago I came across your content. It’s been so helpful. So grateful.

Pat Flynn: Thank you.

Jake Gosselin: Like you have no clue . . . I mean you probably hear this all the time, but the impact you’ve made on my life has just been incredible. And, yeah, it was three years ago I came across your podcast and then it was about two years ago, that’s when I started to really take the online business thing seriously. Because I had quit my full time job, decided to take a break from full time ministry. But I still wanted to help worship leaders and I wanted to build this business. So I started creating content and I was able to quit my job because I had . . . I did a lot of freelance video work so that kinda gave me the flexibility to really build this business over the past two years.

And then I’ve basically arrived at a point now where I can say just in the past couple months here I am pretty much full time with Churchfront. So that’s the name of my business, you can find it at, that’s the brand that I’ve built. And it’s really an online resource that exists to equip worship leaders with practical training that helps them lead gospel centered and tech savvy worship. That’s my niche and the people who I serve.

So it’s just been kind of mind-blowing when I reflect on the past couple years and yeah, and just see how far a lot of this stuff has come. I still have a long way to go, that’s why I’m here and that’s why I’m excited to chat with you. But as far as the nature of the business right now, my primary product is a membership site called Worship Leader School. There I have an online course library for worship leaders to work through, yeah, just different courses I have around worship-leading. And I also have the online community there. We have a dedicated forum and I host a weekly office hours call. So that’s like, my flagship product.

Pat Flynn: Yeah.

Jake Gosselin: That’s as monthly subscription, or annual subscription. I have a smaller digital product. They’re ambient pad sounds that you can play underneath you when you’re leading a worship band or even if you’re just solo. And then I also have just affiliate income from Amazon. So that’s kinda the current status of the business.

Pat Flynn: That’s really cool. First of all, just thank you for sharing the journey. I’m so incredibly grateful that you had mentioned that I was able to in some way shape or impact what you’ve done. But it’s mainly you taking action and doing this. And imagine like, I mean wow. You have this business, you have the freedom now that you didn’t have when you were working full time at your job. And now you have these twins that you can help take care of at home. And that’s just beautiful, man. I mean that’s . . . Hearing that is exactly why I do what I do. So bless you. Thank you. I appreciate you so much. And I love that you laid out your business and your model already and all the things that you have going on.

So related to that, kinda what’s on your mind right now? Where do you feel like things can be improved, and how can I help you?

Jake Gosselin: Yeah, so this spot I’m at now, I’m excited because like I said, I’m at a point where I can fully live off of my online business. And I’m actually still, now I’m a part time worship leader at a church plan, a new church here in the Colorado area. So I’m still able to actually be a practitioner in these things as long . . . as well as equip people. But anyways, I’m in this awkward place where I’m excited that I can live off this and it’s growing. And it’s going well. But I also feel like I’m like, okay, what’s . . . I’m asking myself like, “What’s the next step in terms of just bringing this to the next level?” Because I have pretty huge dreams. The market and the amount of people out there who I feel like I can help, it’s pretty massive. There are like . . . I think there’s like 300,000 churches just in North America. A lot of my customers too are actually around the globe as well.

So there’s just such a massive amount of people who I feel like I can help and it’s just, how do I bring this to the next level in the terms of simplifying my current systems, in terms of lead generation and sales and you know, ideally getting them into Worship Leader School, being the best product I believe I have for them? And then also scaling in a sense from going . . . being like, a solo entrepreneur to building and growing a team so I’m not doing everything. Yeah, because I’m already like, feeling after two years of pretty much doing everything—it’s like getting a little burnt out and stretched a little bit thin.

And then the other thing too, is within my market there’s a lot of different ideas that I have for future products. And I think in the past few months I’ve been able to do a better job of focusing and really focusing on okay, Worship Leader School is like, my main information product I have for people. But man, there’s so many other things like, within this space, whether they’re certain creative assets that I could create and distribute or things like that. So, yeah . . . So to kind of sum it up, it’s like how do I . . . I have a functioning online business now. It’s like, what do I do next? What’s my next best step?

Pat Flynn: Right. Now I think a lot of this is gonna be based on, what do you want? Where do you wanna go? Because there are obviously, you’ve already laid out like ten different things that you could do. And I think that prioritization is really important because if we try to do all of them at the same time then none of them are gonna be to the quality that you would likely want or be done. Secondly, you know it’s almost like putting the address into your navigation menu in your car. It’s like, you could drive the car, you could go and find your way to where you wanna go. Or you can have that address and know exactly where you wanna go so that you have the right directions to take in the least amount of time with the least amount of energy. And if you get off course, well, you know that you can get back on course.

Versus what most entrepreneurs do, especially at this stage, is they just push harder. And they end up in a place where—and this is where we don’t wanna go—where you’re just hating what you’re doing. Like you’ve built something amazing and you’ve gotten it to a point, without you even realizing it, that it’s like, back to how it felt before you quit and became an entrepreneur. Right, it’s like . . . The craziest thing that I find in my business and when I talk to others who are entrepreneurs is like, when they’ve built something successful on paper and they have employees and they’re making money, but they’re still unhappy. That’s . . . You could’ve created whatever you want and you’ve built . . . you’ve built a monster instead of building what it is that you want.

So if I were to ask you just plain and simple like, in your vision, what do you want? How would you answer that?

Jake Gosselin: I guess I would love to see Churchfront and what I’m building, to just become really just the go-to place when people think about, man, like I wanna become a worship leader. Or I wanna develop this new skill around worship ministry or learn like this particular software that I teach worship leaders on called Ableton Live. It’s like, I kinda wanna become the go-to place for that and just kinda the no brainer of like, “Oh, yeah, I’ll just go subscribe to Worship Leader School.” And like, again, I think that there’s such a large amount of people. So if I were to put metrics to these things, I mean some of the goals I have is right now, I’m at 170 subscribers for Worship Leader School. So it’s like, how could I get that 1000 subscribers within, I don’t know, by 2020, by the end of next year?

And when I think about lifestyle-wise, like I definitely love the idea of having an online business, and currently right, it’s like I have my office here that’s like a block or two away from my house. And I don’t have to do much traveling or anything like that. I can really be with my family a lot. So I mean those are kinda . . . I think I remember from reading Will It Fly?, like you talk about what are those lifestyle choices you want, and build your business around that.

Pat Flynn: Yeah.

Jake Gosselin: So I definitely, yeah, I’ve been thinking about those things. At the same time it’s like I do have pretty ambitious goals. I would love to get to a point where I have a team of maybe like, I don’t know, ten or a dozen people. I think I can make a huge impact with just that amount of manpower creating free content as well developing out my products.

Pat Flynn: Yeah. No, that’s good.

Jake Gosselin: Yeah, so I don’t know if that kinda helps clarify that for you.

Pat Flynn: No, it does. It does.

Jake Gosselin: Okay.

Pat Flynn: Because it would’ve been different if you’d said that you want to, for example, your goal would be to—and maybe this is something that could happen. But if your ultimate goal was, for example you want to have your own television show, right. Then we would have a little bit of a different sort of path to get there. Or if you wanted to be a nine-figure earner, you know, within two years, then that’s a whole different set of things that need to happen. Versus what you mentioned was okay, very clearly, 1000 members of Churchfront, or Worship Leader School, at the end of 2019. And now we can go okay, well how many do we need per month to come in? What does sales and how many leads do we need to do that? So now we’re starting to get clear with, okay well what would that path actually look like to get that?

So I’m so happy that, in addition to the sort of lifestyle stuff, which is really important, and that can definitely influence okay well what is your team gonna look like and how would you manage them, and all those kinds of things. I mean those specific numbers are really important too. So I love . . . I mean, it’s no surprise to me that you have already become successful because you’re already thinking about the right things. So congratulations to you for that.

So number one, let’s talk about team related things. I think you are at a point in your business now where it makes sense to have at least a person to help you with a number of things that you could possibly do so that, A, you could either focus on—and I’m gonna be asking you some questions about how you got those 170 members in just a moment, and perhaps a lot of that is gonna be based on things that only you and you can do alone. And there’s a lot of time that could be used for more of that to get to those 1000 subscribers. And you’re likely spending a lot of time on administrative systems and other things. So if I were to ask you, what would be your first hire and what would they be doing, what would you answer?

Jake Gosselin: So I do kind of have a small team right now. And so that’s where . . . And that’s where I’m having to make these decisions. And the first kind of team player I have is actually my wife, Kaylee. She’s also a worship leader, that’s her background as well. It’s kinda how we met.

Pat Flynn: Oh perfect.

Jake Gosselin: And we’re both passionate about it. And she helps a lot. And this is important I think, especially with my subscription business, is the community aspect of our membership site. She’s much more wired and relational than I am, and excited about getting to know people and ask them random questions that I just . . . I’m not wired to think that way. So fortunately she’s able to help even, because she stays at home with the kids, but she can still hop on the laptop, you know, an hour or two here or there each week and help me with the community management, and help with retention.

And then as far as like, some of the other administrative stuff, like video editing, that’s like a huge one where . . . And again, I’ve actually started to get some help in this area as well, but I create a lot of YouTube content. That’s one of my best social platforms for just building my audience.

Pat Flynn: Super smart.

Jake Gosselin: So I have . . . yeah, so I have a younger guy, his name’s Ashton, he just graduated from high school and he’s kinda figuring out what he wants to do vocationally. He’s actually interning for me at our church, learning about worship leading. But then he also is really interested in the online world and creating content. So I’ve been hiring him as well, just as like, a contractor to edit stuff for me, like YouTube videos for me, and even some of my course videos. So that’s been super helpful.

Pat Flynn: That’s great.

Jake Gosselin: And then I have just recently, like a week or two ago, just a random old friend connection. Basically I have a copywriter helping me out. He’s based in Orange County, down there in California. And he’s helping me transcribe a lot of my YouTube content to blog form, so I can really . . . My website’s been performing really well too and I wanna like, double down on that. So, of all the things, like I feel like I’m offloading things. But I still feel like I’m . . . I don’t know. I still feel like I’m so stretched in terms of man, maybe I shouldn’t be doing this random stuff.

Pat Flynn: Right.

Jake Gosselin: Like you know, having . . . because I get so many things like . . . Just like so many random emails I get now from people who, you know, just send emails to my generic support email address I have on my website. And it’s like, I just don’t have time to help them right now. And these people could be a potentially good, like they could . . . I could . . . If I had an email conversation maybe that could lead to them also even being a customer, but even just like wanting to have good, establish goodwill with people and helping them out when I can. So I think that’s an area that the random little communications that come in and out, like you know whether it’s . . . I think for customer . . . Right now I’m at a point where if it’s a customer, like a Worship Leader School member, then I’m there, I’m replying.

Pat Flynn: Yeah.

Jake Gosselin: Because I have to. But if it’s the random stuff, that’s where it’s more difficult. And that’s probably where I need more an administrative assistant or someone like that.

Pat Flynn: Yeah, I mean, that’s one way to handle it. And you know, I hired Jess on my team to help me with emails specifically and I had her on Episode 115 of the SPI podcast to help me through that and help others who are dealing with that. So that would be a good episode to listen to as far as like, if you wanted to hire somebody for communication purposes. But I’ve also met a lot of people who have in a very smart way been able to control their time a little bit with communication and yet still show up and be helpful. And what I mean is by having a public—I know you do private office hours for your people, but if there was a moment of the week where everybody knew and all responses were, “Hey, by the way if you have a question come join us live on this time,” and that way you’re also building the community. You’re also interacting, they’re getting a feel for you. They’re hearing you in person. They get a feel for what it might be like in the worship group.

So instead of answering one off emails you could have a, for example, a generic response that says, “Hey, I’m sorry we are unable to get to questions right away, however, if you wanted to join us on Worship Live on Fridays at this time we’d be happy to potentially answer your question there. And you can meet other community members too.” And that way it’s like, all questions are only answered during that time. It allows you to control your time a little bit more in a public way that allows you to give a taste of what it might be like to be in your membership at the same time. So you kinda do two or three things at once with that. And I’ve seen a lot of people do that very successfully. It may or may not fit for you, but I just wanted to offer that as a potential strategy.

Jake Gosselin: No, and I love that idea. Because I actually I feel like I could and should be doing more livestream stuff, but sometimes I . . . Going into a livestream it’s kind of like, “Oh do I have any really content prepared to share right now.”

Pat Flynn: Sure.

Jake Gosselin: Whereas like the whole Q&A format . . . I do like that because then I can actually feel like I’m helping the random inquiries that come in, like in a more intentional way. But then also create some great content out of that in a livestream format.

Pat Flynn: Yeah, and you could also repurpose that content for your YouTube channel. And again everybody who’s seeing you in this sort of free manner is gonna be excited because you’ll likely be able to mention your worship school. “By the way this is the kind of stuff we talk about and teach in Worship Leader School all the time, and you know, as we’re waiting for my questions to come in I want to tell you about you know, Jessica who’s one of my students and this really amazing thing that happened to her last week that you’d be . . .” So you can tell stories about your existing students. Like, if you have any courses or any customers telling their stories, making them look like a hero in front of others will make them wanna join. And so those are some really cool ways that you could also essentially double dip and be able to not just answer these questions and save you time that way, but also potentially get more members who come into your school, to help with the leads and the sales generation. So that could be a really interesting way to go about it.

How are you getting your . . . Or how did you get your current members for your group, generally?

Jake Gosselin: Yeah, yeah. So over the past two years I built an email list that’s up to like 17,000 people. And then the YouTube subscriber base, all of the social accounts, all that stuff. Like so, that’s the audience that I kind of was building over the past two years. And then back in July, that’s kinda when I came up with the idea of this. I was actually searching like, Pat Flynn membership sites, seeing what content you had out on it. And I found a guest post you did for Mike and Callie over at

Pat Flynn: Yeah, yeah.

Jake Gosselin: And so anyways, it was like okay, cool. So I kinda got into their world and learned a lot of helpful stuff from them. And worked on the prelaunch sequence. Basically tried to do a lot of what you talked about in Will It Fly? and just pre-validating ideas. And I experienced that before. So this wasn’t my first information product. I had a product that I launched back in February this year and I basically pre-sold a course and had people pay like, I think it’s fifty bucks a pop. And then I delivered the course over the series of like two months. So I wanted to do . . . I don’t know. I felt for a membership site, I actually had courses that I already had ready to go in there, but I still wanted to like, validate the idea as good as I could. So basically I just created like, hey . . . I just made a YouTube video. Like, hey I have an idea. That was the title of the video and like, I don’t know, for some reason random videos like that perform decently well sometimes.

Pat Flynn: Yeah, it’s funny right.

Jake Gosselin: And, yeah. And then a lot of them watched it. So I started building lots of brand awareness and then once I kind of felt and like . . . I probably had over 100 people join the waitlist for Worship Leader School within that first week. And then that was like, okay, I think there’s enough to keep going with this. And what I started to do is all of my content over the next couple months, I always basically plugged the Worship Leader School, like this thing that didn’t exist but they would go to the landing page and join the waitlist.

Pat Flynn: Yeah.

Jake Gosselin: So I had . . . I had like over 500 people on my list who were just on the wait list for that. And then when . . . or no . . . yeah, October came around … September I created a few more courses getting it in there, and the beauty of this is the product, and Worship Leader School will keep growing and keep getting better. But in October I just did a traditional Jeff Walker product launch formula-style launch over a week to . . . to my list basically. And I had a discounted incentive, like they could join at $29 a month during launch week. Had some, also like, I did like a bonus coaching call if you signed up, like the first couple days. And then anyways, yeah. Just kinda did that discounted launch week.

Pat Flynn: Yeah, that’s great. All the right things.

Jake Gosselin: Yeah, and now it’s at $49 a month, or $497 a year to join.

Pat Flynn: Have you run another launch-like sequence since then?

Jake Gosselin: No. So that’s . . . And that’s a thing where I’m trying to figure out like, how to . . . So membership site, I’ve never been so excited about a product I have to offer now, because I feel like it delivers people such massive value. But I feel like membership sites are harder to . . . to provide. Like, I don’t know to articulate an offer for an audience, because you kind of like are offering so much it’s like, oh what’s the specific transformation they’re gonna get? So the past couple weeks I’ve been really . . . What I think I’m gonna focus on, and it’s been working pretty well in the two times I’ve done it, is focusing on just doing a weekly live webinar that really hones in on one of my flagship courses. It’s about how to use Ableton Live in worship. Really a lot of people are . . . Lots of worship leaders are really interested in it.

And right now the plan going forward is like, do a live webinar every Thursday, so from Monday to Thursday try to create leads for that webinar, get people registered, host it, and then have like, the limited time bonus for the people who register for the webinar that like, they can get a discount on the annual membership or if they get the monthly they’ll pay regular price . . . Or if they get the annual, like, either one of those options they can also get a half hour coaching call with me if they sign up.

So that’s kinda like the promotional framework, or bonus I’m trying to get to them with the webinar. So . . .

Pat Flynn: Yeah, I like that.

Jake Gosselin: Yeah, and honestly I think it’s gonna work. And I think it’s a process . . . It’s a matter right now of perfecting that and try to get as many registrants, quality registrants as I can without too much ad spend and stuff and . . . So yesterday, yeah, like yesterday I did it and I had two annual sign ups and two monthly sign ups. And I had sixty people live at the webinar. So . . .

Pat Flynn: Yeah, no, that’s great. I mean you’ve created a foundation that now you can build off of. Which is fantastic.

Jake Gosselin: Okay.

Pat Flynn: I wouldn’t say you need to, for the growth of your business, do anything like, new or outside of the box right now. Like I would . . . Like you said earlier, focus on what you were doing and optimize those systems. You’ve started a great process, you have this foundation. With these webinars, continually see how you might be able to improve them in all different kinds of ways. How can you improve the presentation and the conversions from people on there into the membership? How can you better convert people on your website into the webinar? And just go all in on that, in like the first quarter of 2019, and you’re gonna see some amazing results when you literally focus on just like, how can I best improve that process.

And then when it comes to the team . . . So number one with that is like, you need to keep track of all the things that you do and see where you can optimize and how things are going. A lot of times entrepreneurs get into the process of like, doing webinars and selling and they don’t keep track and they aren’t conscious about like what worked and what didn’t. They just go and they keep doing and it’s just like, you can’t improve what you don’t track. So it sounds like you were already going to do that and you’re just at the start of that. So that’s great. I would encourage you to push through and continually optimize that.

With your team and the team that you’re gonna build, and the systems and the other things outside of the webinar that you do, very same thing. I would actually consider . . . Because you were a little bit hazy with exactly what you could potentially hand off. So what I would do is actually write down like in a certain week or even a day, all the things that you do. And it’s gonna be really scary to see all those things. But what’ll be nice is there will be certain ones that you can circle and go, “Why am I doing that? I shouldn’t be doing that. Somebody else . . . or I could hire somebody else for that. Or we don’t even, like why is this even happening? Like this doesn’t even . . . This isn’t even moving the needle at all. Like let’s get rid of that.”

So when you can write things down, then you can start to deal with them. And I would do that with sort of all the things that happen in your business, including what you wife does as well, and see, are there areas that we can do these things in half the time. Are there areas that we don’t need to do any more, or where should we put more time into?

And then really focusing in on that goal per month, related to trying to get to 1000 subscribers. And I think you’ll be set, man. Like there really isn’t anything huge that you need to do outside of what you’re already doing. It’s more of just like, a let’s fine-tune now, because you started off really good. And I think you know, perhaps you can use this call as validation that like, A, you were doing the right things. But, B, let’s just like . . . let’s just like, commit to that for the first quarter and hone in on those optimizations. And I think you’re gonna find really good success in that way.

Jake Gosselin: That’s . . . I mean that’s really encouraging and helpful because I . . . Over the past two years, one of the hardest part about building online business I feel like, is there’s so much like noise and strategies and ideas and techniques.

Pat Flynn: Yeah, for sure.

Jake Gosselin: And I’m like . . . I’m like, am I missing something? Like I mean, I feel like I’ve been trying to learn as much as possible, but at the same time now, I’m at the point where it’s like, I think I found something that’s working, I just need to hone that in.

Pat Flynn: I think you’re good, man. I think you’re good. So I would just .. . I would just focus, is really more than anything. And not worry about the other strategies. This is the other big problem that a lot of entrepreneurs have is, especially when you start listening to my show a lot, you’re gonna hear a bunch on entrepreneurs come on and talk about like, all these new strategies.

Jake Gosselin: Yeah.

Pat Flynn: Just focus on the strategies that relate to what you are doing next. And maybe this involves like, okay now you have these webinars happening, every once in a while you can go “okay like, how can we get more webinar registrants? Maybe it’s Facebook ads, so let’s focus in the next two weeks on Facebook ads and let’s test that and see if that actually increases how many people come up to the next webinar next month or something like that. And that way your strategies are still related to everything that you’re already doing because that’s part of the optimization process. Versus, “hey, you know what, I think I need to start another YouTube channel because,” you know, and that’s just like, a whole rabbit hole that would just waste time for most people, because most people need to just continue and double down on what they’re already doing.

Jake Gosselin: Exactly, yeah. No that’s super helpful and yeah, it’s kind of a good, just really helpful reminder to just like, yeah, keep focusing and focus better and that’s such a hard struggle being like, having ideas and stuff. But you’re right, you’re right.

Pat Flynn: And, dude, I mean I’m . . . Like, you had just mentioned what, like a September or October launch, you already have 170 members. Like, you’re gonna get to 1000. And you’re gonna find the ways to do that. You’ve already proven that you can do this. So just keep on keeping on, is the big lesson here. And I think a lot of us need to hear that sometimes, and for those of you listening, you know, consider maybe that’s what you need to do. You’ve already . . . You’re already doing the right things. Is it your squirrel syndrome, that bright light syndrome that’s trying to distract you and take you away from the work that you need to be doing? And you know, I didn’t hear too many signs from you, Jake, as far as like, “here’s the next big thing that I wanna do,” that would actually take you away. Like, you know what to do and I’m excited to, if you don’t mind, have another conversation with you later in the year to see kinda how things are going and growing? Would that be cool?

Jake Gosselin: I would love that. Yeah, of course.

Pat Flynn: Awesome, man. Well hey, one more time for everybody, can you mention the links and all the places that people can go and find you?

Jake Gosselin: Yeah, go to, that’s where my main website is. It links you to my blog, YouTube channel, podcast. And then go to if you happen to be a worship leader listening and you’re interested in the training and community we have for you there.

Pat Flynn: You’re awesome, man. Thank you so much for coming on. I appreciate you and good luck.

Jake Gosselin: Thanks, Pat.

Pat Flynn: All right, I hope you enjoyed that episode with Jake from Such a cool guy and I cannot wait to see, Jake, the progress that you make moving forward. And I think a lot of us need to hear the same advice that I gave Jake which is like hey, you’ve found success, now let’s continue to do what you have been doing. Let’s not consider this success a time to now start changing direction. And I think it’s very common for us, especially with everybody sharing all these ideas and a lot of success stories coming out, a lot of people teaching entrepreneurship.

Sometimes we just need to continue to do and double down, triple down, quadruple down on the things that we’ve already started and just learning how to optimize those things, versus trying something new and taking energy away. And it’s hard because we’re entrepreneurs. We like to try new things. We love the excitement and the what if, and the gamble, if you will, for trying new opportunities and new strategies. But hey, you’ve proven yourself, so let’s focus and double down on that.

So, Jake, best of luck to you. Cannot wait to bring you back on the show in the future to see how things go and progress. And congratulations on building an amazing school, it looks like, and serving others who also serve others. Which is great. You’re creating an amazing ripple effect. So keep up the great work. Thank you all for listening in, I appreciate you. Make sure you hit subscribe to the show if you haven’t already. Wherever you’re listening to this, I want you to make sure you don’t miss when Jake comes back and all the other amazing people that we have who we’re coaching here on the show.

And by the way, if you wanna get coached just like I coached Jake today, to give yourself the opportunity to do that all you have to do is go to, scroll down a little bit and then you’ll see a button to apply. Fill that out. Fill out that application. You’re gonna answer a few questions for me so I understand a little bit more about you. And no, I cannot possibly select everybody, I wish I could. But I can’t select you if you don’t apply. So I may reach out to you in the future and it may not be right away. Some people who I’m reaching out to for calls this year applied over a year ago. So it may take some time, but hey, I appreciate you so much. Thank you for listening in. Apply there and hit subscribe if you haven’t already.

You guys are amazing. Thank you so much. Team Flynn for the win.

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