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The Smart Passive Income Podcast

AP 1022: How Do I Sell but Still Help People for Free?

AP 1022: How Do I Sell but Still Help People for Free?

By Pat Flynn on

About This Episode

This week I’m talking with Walid Azami, a successful photographer who’s photographed some people you’ve probably heard of. He actually left the industry for a while after becoming somewhat disillusioned, but now he’s back and wants to do it a different way, building his own brand and helping people. He’s built a significant Instagram following and an online site called He’s also written two ebooks (not yet released). He wants to monetize successfully, but he also wants to stay conscious of his followers who don’t have a lot of money. How can he do both?

In the episode, we explore Walid’s mindset around selling and pricing his materials, and I give him my perspective. We discuss methods for figuring out what content his audience needs, utilizing his email list, and strategies for launching his ebook and getting his name out there. Through the call, Walid develops a game plan for future online courses, personal coaching, and more.

What You’ll Learn:
Tactics and mindsets for launching ebooks, building your online following, selling with integrity, and monetizing successfully.

AskPat 1022 Episode Transcript

Pat Flynn: What’s up everybody? Pat Flynn here and welcome to Session 1022 of AskPat 2.0. This is the show where entrepreneurs like you who have problems, who need some help, who need some coaching and guidance—you call in and I help you out. You can apply right now if you go to There’s a little application button right there on the middle of the page if you’d like to get coaching like Walid got today.

We’re talking with Walid. He is actually a very successful photographer, he’s photographed some amazing people who you probably have heard of before in entertainment and in the news. I’ll let him tell you who those people are. He’s also somebody who left the industry for a while just because of how things were, and came back, and wanted to do it a different way, and wants to build his own brand and help people. He wants to help people for free, but he has this book, and he hasn’t launched it yet.

There’s a lot of things going on here, so we’re going to talk him through it right after I tell you really quick about FreshBooks, today’s sponsor and AskPat’s sponsor for all of 2018, which is awesome. I love FreshBooks so much. If you need help with your business finances and you want to make it easy for yourself I’d recommend getting FreshBooks because they do a number of things to serve us small business owners. I’ve used them for so long now and I can’t live without them. Not only do they, just through their service, keep headaches away from our lives in terms of finances, but things like, specifically, automatically keeping track of expenses, and printing out all the balance sheets, and the profit and loss statements that we need every single month to check on the health of our business financially, and the invoicing. Invoicing: In less than thirty seconds you can create a professional-looking invoice. You can send it out to your students, or the companies you consult with, or the people who you coach, and you can get paid rather quickly. You can also follow up nicely, because not only does it help you keep track of who has yet to pay you, but also who has even opened that invoice.

Seriously, if you want to check it out for thirty days for a free, full-featured free trial, just go to Just make sure you enter “Ask Pat” in the “How did you hear about us?” section.

Sweet, okay, now here is Walid. Let’s get to it.

Walid, welcome. Thank you for joining us here on AskPat 2.0. How are you doing?

Walid Azami: I’m doing great.

Pat Flynn: Why don’t you quickly introduce yourself and what you do to me and all the listeners.

Walid Azami: Sure. Well first of all, thank you for everything you do for the community. I’ve been listening for a couple of years and when I heard you accepting guests I had a weird feeling. I said, “You know what, just hit him up today.” So I screen-captured my phone so that I didn’t forget it—it was in my gallery. I went home that night and I’m glad that we connected.

A little about me. Let’s see if I can abbreviate this. My name is Walid Azami, I am a photographer, director, and creative director in Los Angeles. I’m one of those people that, I’ve seen a lot of success with my career as far as the portfolio that I’ve been able to build. Some of my clients, I guess many of your listeners would be familiar with: Madonna, Kanye West, Mariah Carey . . .

Pat Flynn: Insane.

Walid Azami: . . . The NFL. Insane people that I still, even right now when I name them I still have a wow moment, because Walid the little refugee from Afghanistan, that wasn’t supposed to happen for him that way.

I guess to give you an idea of what I do, I photograph album covers, magazine editorials, world tour posters. I also create video content for a lot of companies. My career has been about ten or eleven years long. Let’s just say I’ve seen things Pat, and I think that’s safe to say for every entrepreneur, but I guess the things that we hear about in Hollywood and about Hollywood . . . I’ve seen things. So I always was amazed from just the onset of my career how few people . . . Let me see if I’m saying that right. I guess the amount of people that wouldn’t help each other out. I recall starting out, asking people that I knew had the answers. They would just say, “You know Walid, I don’t know.” I got it early on. I was like, “Oh I get it, we’re not going to help each other and this is what it’s going to be.” I remember starting out very, very early and promising myself—I remember the exact little strip mall that I started my first ever internship for a documentary. It was a mockumentary. I went to go shake the producer’s hand and I said, “Hi, I’m Walid. I’m your intern for the day.” He looked at my hand, didn’t shake it, and said, “Can you go to Subway and get me a sandwich?” I remember walking down the street, walking in that strip mall and thinking, “When I make it I’m not going to be like this. I’m going to be different and I believe that helping others is the right thing to do.”

Fast forward about nine to ten years, and I have been very fortunate to make it professionally. Again, really nobody helped me; I never forgot that. But the past couple of years a lot has happened to the photography world. And artists, where they’re asking us to work for free for exposure—I lost the album cover for a major superstar because another photographer offered to do it in exchange for Instagram mentions. On top of that, I had a photo agent that started blaming the shift in the industry on things like, “Walid, maybe you need to lose some weight.” I’m by no means—

Pat Flynn: What?

Walid Azami: —heavy. Yeah, for real. I remember he had sent a personal trainer’s brochure with a Post-it note that said, “Think about it.” Now, I’m 190 pounds, 5’9″, so listen, I don’t have a six-pack, but I think that I’m fairly average. I remember thinking, “But I’m behind the camera.” It was all these different things, Pat. It was just, there was a lack of honesty and everything. I got so fed up with the industry that the worst thing that could happen to a creative—I actually hated photography, and I put my camera down for eight months.

I think that everyone is allowed to have a . . . I’m trying to abbreviate this Pat, sorry.

Pat Flynn: No, no please, this is all great, as far as understanding where your head is at.

Walid Azami: I think everyone is allowed to have a moment to fall apart, to have a tantrum, and then you got to get up and do something about it.

I had a very rich portfolio but I was like, “Oh my god, it’s like, what is happening, and there’s a shift in the industry and everything. I’m just not happy with the way that any of it is going and I’m unfulfilled.” In those eight months of not picking up the camera—it was dusty, I didn’t even touch the camera—I thought, “Okay, enough. Now be a part of the answer.”

I secretly started an Instagram account called How to Photograph. I just put myself out there with zero followers and I started helping photographers little nugget by little nugget with lighting tips, composition tips, business advice, how to talk to a customer, how to negotiate, how to get out of a heated situation. Everything that I learned over the past decade, I started feeding them little by little and they had no idea who this was. In about a year, year and a half, I grew to over 20,000 followers. Then with the convincing of a friend he said, “Look, you got to attach your name. You have a rich portfolio. People would probably listen a lot more if they knew that you photographed Kanye West or you’ve done these incredible clients.” So I did attach my name.

The weird thing is that I think your community is very much the same way, but I always tell people, “I have probably the politest community of followers ever.” They help each other. I don’t have to really even monitor it too much, but I make sure I answer every single person’s question, their DM, and I help them build a career in photography. This has been about two and a half—I’m probably about 28,000 followers now thanks to Instagram’s algorithm, that slowed things down. But, this has been one of the most fulfilling things of my career. It actually helped me pick the camera back up again and start going at a new, unprecedented pace, and start booking clients again and everything. It gave me back the soul that I thought was missing in my career.

After about two and a half years—I’m really skimming over it, but after about two and a half years I want to start monetizing the account little by little. Up until this point I really haven’t made any money whatsoever, but I’ve put a tremendous amount of time and money into educating people, even down to somebody asking me what kind of camera they should buy their son for Christmas. I do the research and make sure that . . . because I believe in providing value. These people are amazing and the DMs that I get, the comments that I get—a couple times it’s even made me emotional. I’m like, “Wow, you’re in Ukraine and I had that impact on you,” or wherever they would be.

So I guess my reason for reaching out now is I love this account. I still am photographing my clients. I still am doing creative directing and directing videos, but this is such a passion now. I’m looking for ways to start monetizing it. I’ve written two ebooks that I’ve not yet released, and the ebooks are a Part One and a Part Two of how to set up an entire fashion shoot and book an agency model, and hire your team, and stay in control, and execute your vision from the idea, to the mood-boarding, to everything. Then Book Two takes you step by step to delivering the images to the client. It is the book that I wished was around when I started. I compiled basically over a decade’s worth of knowledge and information, and I put it together in a book that kept growing, and growing, and growing. That’s where I’m at Pat, is that I want to start monetizing this.

One more thing to add to the wrench in the spokes, is that I’m very sensitive, I think maybe because of the way I grew up. We really didn’t have any money, especially as refugees in America. I would say about 40 percent of my audience are from countries that, let’s say India, Singapore, countries that don’t have a lot of money. I want to be able to monetize, but I also want to be very, very conscious of still being able to help these people that may not have the same access to the money that we do in the United States.

Pat Flynn: Sure.

Walid Azami: That’s my puzzle and that’s why I reached out.

Pat Flynn: Well thank you Walid. First of all, just, I appreciate people like you because you’re doing it right.

Walid Azami: Thank you.

Pat Flynn: You had gone through all this experience of not being treated well and not being . . . Even though you’re helping you’re not being recognized for that. Here you are now doing it differently and giving the industry really what it needs. I think the Instagram growth, and the DMs, and all the following that you have now, the tribe that you’ve built, is a reflection of really who you are and the work that you’ve done to make change in the industry. I think that’s really huge. I think a lot of people can follow your example. It wasn’t easy obviously, but you did it and I think the reason your audience is so kind is because you are kind. I teach this to my kids, I go, “What you give the world the world gives back to you.” You’re receiving back what you have now allowed yourself to give. I would encourage you to keep building that audience and to keep treating people that way, and to keep serving first, and I can feel it and I can hear it in your voice. You will be wildly successful, and you are obviously, but in this realm, continue down this route and you will be successful in this realm too.

Let’s see if we can jam and talk a little bit about monetization. Obviously, and you know this, I can already tell, monetization is a result of how helpful you are to your audience, right?

Walid Azami: Right, right.

Pat Flynn: To your concern about those countries, the 40 percent of countries who you feel just don’t, maybe don’t have the income: Number one, you don’t know that for sure.

Walid Azami: Right.

Pat Flynn: I think we have this perception of countries and how it might be there. Yes, there’s likely a number of people in all countries who cannot afford whatever it is that you’re going to offer. In that sense, that was a big issue with me related to building online courses. I was worried that by building online courses I was going to leave a lot of people out and still not be able to help them, the exact same concern that you had. If you create programs, if you release ebooks and they require a payment, are you taking anything away that you’re already doing? Can you still help those people through the content that you’re already sharing?

Walid Azami: Great question. Yes, I still can. I think it’s basically, if you buy an ebook you’re setting it all together organized at once versus drop after drop over months and months.

Pat Flynn: Yeah, absolutely. People pay for convenience if they can afford it and if they cannot they still have the means to find that information, and they want to get that information, whether it’s paid or free, from you because of the kind of culture that you’re building around your brand and your business. Whoever gave you that advice to put you into your Instagram, I think you owe them something because your name should be there. That’s number one, and hopefully that helps defeat that demon in your head about, “I’m going to be upsetting people by doing this,” because that’s a limiting belief and I think that’s a stigma that we all have from how we grew up and other people have taken advantage of us. So you’re different, and you should remember that.

Number two, in terms of monetization, the best way to do it, and you have this advantage now because you have this large audience who is communicative with you—have you done any asking, of all the things that you’ve talked about, what they need help with the most? You can maybe gauge based on the Instagram posts that you’ve had, since they are very specific to certain things, which ones are more popular than others and the kinds of information that they want. But I’m curious, have you done any surveying or have you asked around? Are your ebooks that you haven’t released yet, that we’ll get to in a second, were they a result of requests or was that kind of just, “Here’s what I’m into right now?”

Walid Azami: Great question. I think the ebooks are definitely a result of a lot of requests. It’s because, even if I go do a photo shoot, this is for a magazine or whatever it is, I take them with me. Do you know what I mean? They, a lot of times will say, “Oh my God, how do you book this,” or, “I wish I could shoot models,” or, “I don’t live in New York or LA.” It’s all their comments and DMs as a result, but I have here or there . . . Now, I haven’t sent out a survey. I haven’t done any sort of polls. Once in a while I’ll do a post like “Your Biggest Frustration as a Photographer is:” and then it’s just—

Pat Flynn: That’s perfect. That’s all you need. That’s perfect.

Walid Azami: Okay, okay. They’re very eager to share.

Pat Flynn: Yeah, that’s great. That’s awesome. That will give you some insight on what people are looking for. Then, you create those solutions. If this ebook is a solution to some of those problems that your audience has, then my big question is, well why is it just sitting there dormant? What’s going on?

Walid Azami: Part of it is, which I don’t want to admit, is a little bit of paralysis by analysis—is that the term, or no?

Pat Flynn: Yeah, I think that’s right, or analysis paralysis or whatever.

Walid Azami: Yeah, sure.

Pat Flynn: What are you analyzing?

Walid Azami: Is it perfect enough? Is it good enough? I’m attaching my name. Because my whole career has been “it has to be perfect,” and so basically the book that was supposed to be . . . you know it’s for ebook, so for Kindles and stuff. I thought it would be twenty pages, plenty of information. Now I have, combined, about ninety pages, actually a little more than that even. I keep adding and adding.

Finally, I just realized, “Stop. There can be future books.” I actually was going to release it this week and then I got so excited about speaking with you I thought, “Well I’ve delayed it this long. I want to talk to Pat first and then release it.” Now it’s like researching, do I just put it on Amazon and my website? Do I just do my website only? Everything, my whole career including this—and I think everybody is about being self-taught . . . It’s such a huge flow of information that every day I’m trying to learn something about doing this the right way. I’m kind of making excuses too, I just realized as I’m talking to you.

Pat Flynn: So what should the answer be then?

Walid Azami: The answer is, I think I just wanted to be so great and so helpful, and I know that it is because there is no other book like this out there. But it’s my first product and I just want it to be received well.

Pat Flynn: What are you scared of?

Walid Azami: That my intentions don’t come across.

Pat Flynn: How might they not come across the way you want it to?

Walid Azami: How might it not?

Pat Flynn: Yeah. You’ve, I’m sure, talked about, in the book, why you wrote the book.

Walid Azami: Yeah.

Pat Flynn: So where might a person misunderstand you, if you’re being so clear about those intentions?

Walid Azami: Well . . . good point, Pat.

Pat Flynn: Again, this is just . . . Don’t worry Walid, this is so common. We make up our own excuses, excuses that when you really think about it shouldn’t even exist. So just dissolve that in your head right now.

Walid Azami: Okay.

Pat Flynn: That intention, based on the conversation that we had today and based on your history, and based on what I know that you put into this, that’s not going to be a problem. In terms of monetization I think, number one, release book number one now, that way it’s out there, that will help build your name and authority. I like the idea of you had mentioned that these people might not be able to afford it, but if it’s on Amazon it’s likely affordable.

Walid Azami: Right.

Pat Flynn: And you’re not charging hundreds of dollars for it. Now, I will say that putting a book on Amazon isn’t going to make you a ton of money.

Walid Azami: Sure.

Pat Flynn: But it’s going to get your name out there and potentially and indirectly make you more money down the road, because now people are going to go deeper with you. They’re going to want more from you. I assume this might happen, this is very common, especially with how-to type books, they’re going to read this and they’re going to go, “Yes, I want to hire Walid to help me do this,” or, “I want something more in depth,” or, “I want coaching from him. Is there a workshop I can go to?” I would encourage you to think of maybe, if people wanted more what would that mean? That has to come from you and how you want to do it. As an entrepreneur, you have the freedom to create whatever you want and if you promise that outcome, that can be framed in all kinds of different ways, whether it’s an in-person workshop, a virtual workshop, maybe it’s a summit you put on, like a virtual summit, or a more in depth online course perhaps. That’s kind of cool. I would encourage you to pre-sell those things. It’s a little bit easier to pre-sell an event in our heads because you always charge upfront for tickets before an event. For information, for coaching, that stuff can be charged upfront too and then you have to obviously deliver that.

A book is just step one, and actually before we even launched the book I would ask you, is there any way that you are collecting a person’s information, i.e. email address, through that book that they’re going to read?

Walid Azami: In the book yeah, there is a . . . I actually do a, on my blog for, at the end of almost every single article there will be newsletter form that they could sign up for. I do try to collect. It’s not a huge number, but it does sort of grow. You know what’s interesting Pat, is I’ll get a lot of signups on my Instagram Stories and this is what’s fascinating, is that—or to me it is, is that I’ll say, “Hey guys, for my next shoot I’m actually hiring one person. One of my assistants is coming straight from the newsletter from that list.” So I try to give them these experiences that they can’t get any other place.

Pat Flynn: Do you talk about that when people are signing up for the list, or only after people are on the list?

Walid Azami: Well I’ll say it, like actually I recorded the video last night and I’m putting it out today of, “Hey guys, I’m doing an eight page magazine editorial with a famous boxer. I want to invite one person either as hired help, or if they don’t have the abilities at the moment, to come in as a guest and watch.” I tell them that, but when I offer those sort of things the signups surge.

Also, it surges sometimes when I get a little bit frustrated and I say, “Look guys, I’m doing everything I can to help, so those people that want to be helped you’re going to sign up, but I’m not going to keep begging for signups on the newsletter. When I give them a little bit of tough love, then the signups surge. It’s the weirdest thing. If I say, “Hey guys, I’m gibing a freebee, I’m giving an exclusive tutorial on this. Please make sure you sign up for the newsletter,” it won’t move the needle very much at all until they really feel like they’re getting a little bit of tough love.

Pat Flynn: Interesting.

Walid Azami: Yeah it’s very interesting to me. I was like, “Okay, I guess that’s what they respond to.”

Pat Flynn: Yeah well, I mean they’re responding to you. The reason I bring this up is because most of the time, not always, it depends on the brand, but most of the time if you just offer an exclusive newsletter you’re not providing enough incentive. Because a newsletter is essentially telling people, “Hey, I’m going to send you more emails.” Nobody wakes up in the morning and says, “I want more emails.”

Walid Azami: True.

Pat Flynn: People wake up in the morning and go, “Man, if only I had the opportunity to shadow somebody who can help me in my career.” I would make that more prominent. Like, “Every month or every once and a while I select one of my email subscribers to come shadow me at a job or whatever, and you’ll hear more inside the email list and you also get a freebee,” or something. Anyway, the email list thing is not a huge deal because you already are building your audience and you’re utilizing Instagram and such, and I think that’s great. But I just wanted to make sure that the book had mechanisms to help you understand who is reading the book and, if possible, maybe have something closer to the top of the book versus the bottom to do that.

Walid Azami: I like that, okay.

Pat Flynn: Because now you have people who are starting to read the book who could be a cohort of people who might want more help, or maybe get frustrated by reading the book and they’re like, “This is too much work. I just want somebody to do it for me, or do it with me.”

In terms of next steps, I just want to ask you before we finish up, do you have further goals for how you want to monetize? A book is a great step one, but what might step two or three be for you? What do you want to do?

Walid Azami: I love the idea of workshops. I haven’t gotten to it. So when you mentioned it, I love workshops and I do coaching a little bit here and there, so I would love the idea of, just like right now, setting up Skype calls or whatever and coaching people with their photography career. That’s I think the next thing immediately after the book. Of course, I want to keep expanding the brand, but online workshops I think, and coaching abilities would probably be the next thing on the radar, which are all, by the way, things I’ve learned from your podcast, even the newsletter and all that. I didn’t collect emails before your show.

Pat Flynn: Well thank you, you’re too kind continuing to credit me, but you’re the one that took action. Have you ever seen those ads on Instagram and on Facebook for those famous people who go learn directing from Ron Howard, or those Master Class ones?

Walid Azami: Yeah.

Pat Flynn: People go gaga over those because they want to learn from those people who have that experience, and you have this amazing, unique ability that many other photographers who are teaching photographs don’t have, which is you have this experience in the industry. You’ve done photography for these mega stars and people want to connect with people like you. If you were to just simply offer, “Hey guys, I’m going to be coaching X number of people, apply here,” you’re going to get a flood of people who want to apply. That’s something that you could potentially charge a lot for. The book is even something that you could potentially, after it’s out there, you could potentially get it down as essentially just a lead generator for that. I think you could even charge it for ninety-nine cents, or every once and a while even give it away for free, which surges the people who read the book who dive deeper into you and your story, and your teaching. Then they’re like, “Oh I want more. I wish it was just coaching.” Then boom, through your email you go, “Hey, next month I’m opening up two coaching spots. I’m taking two students for $1,000 a month to help you further your career in photography and we’ll talk directly every week,” or something like that. You can develop the price points on your own, but I mean, that’s high level stuff. To connect with somebody of your caliber, you should be charging a premium for that.

Here’s what a few people do who are in similar situations. They don’t want to coach, but they still offer the coaching at a really premium level because they have a number. Like, “Yeah, I’ll coach somebody for like $3,000 a week.” Then they position themselves as that, and that anchors that price there for them. People go, “Oh wow, $3,000 a session, that’s way too much. But they have this online course though, and it’s only $200, wow okay that’s kind of a steal. I should totally get that because I can’t afford $3,000 per session, or per month, or whatever it is, but I can definitely afford a premium online course that’s likely going to give me the same information, just not access to a lead, but here’s all I need.” That could be a later phase, or just kind of planting seeds for what is available. You’ve definitely opened things up for yourself.

Walid Azami: I love that. Okay. No, I love that idea. Thank you. Sorry, I didn’t mean to cut you off.

Pat Flynn: No, no, that was the end of it. I want to hear from you what the biggest things you learned were from this conversation, and if you could tell me and everybody else what your next steps are going to be, I think that might help hold you accountable.

Walid Azami: Absolutely. Can I ask one quick question on the ebooks though?

Pat Flynn: Yeah.

Walid Azami: Because I love what you said about possibly offering it for free or for ninety-nine cents as a lead generator. Book one and book two, they basically take you from pre-production to post-production, so you need both books. Should I offer the first book for free as a lead generator, and then if they choose to buy the second book, should book one always be for free to build up the email list, or just here or there?

Pat Flynn: No. What you could do to help build the email list is take maybe chapter one of book one and give that away.

Walid Azami: Okay.

Pat Flynn: That would help people want to get the book and you’ll get the email. It’s a lot easier to go from email in a little snippet and preview essentially, like when you go to Costco and they’re like, “Here, free sample.” Then you’re like, “Oh my gosh, this dumpling is so good.” They’re going to want to get more.

I would have the books on Amazon. There’s some authority here with that, and the algorithms will help you as well. Just like with Instagram, there are algorithms and they can definitely work in your favor once you get some surge in traffic. There’s SEO, search engine optimization, but there’s also, “people who bought this also bought that,” and that gives you some additional exposure too. I would release book one, make a big deal out of it. Talk about how it’s at a low price point right now, maybe it’s $4.99, and then say, “Guys, next week I’m going to be bumping up the price to $9.99, which is going to be the normal price point, but for this week only it’s $4.99, so this is your time to go and get it now.” That will help you with the rankings. That will help you get more exposure and give Amazon like a, “Oh, this book is one I need to pay attention to and recommend.” Then of course, when you increase the price point, then that becomes something that can produce money for you.

Then you have the second book and then maybe you can, during certain times of the month or during certain holidays, you can always lower the price for a short time period to bring people in. Like I said, people are going to be in your ecosystem, they’re going to want more from you and then you can begin to offer more things down the road. But yeah, I think Amazon is a great play for you. It sounds like you’re excited about coaching, and perhaps online courses and things like that. That’s a perfect play. You’ve already built the thing, so I would say just tweak it a little bit and launch it.

Walid Azami: Awesome. Thanks Pat. I guess then when you said, “What did I learn,” I learned a whole bunch, but if I could just bullet point it real fast: Release the book, stop making excuses. So that’s number one. I never thought about, don’t assume someone’s price point or the size of their wallet. That’s what’s really important for me to remember, is that if they are not able to afford coaching workshops or an ebook I’m not cheating them out of the information. They still are getting it, it’s just at a slower rate. So everyone still has access.

Pat Flynn: Here’s the other thing about that, I was just thinking about out loud, or I am thinking out loud, is they can afford a camera.

Walid Azami: Yeah.

Pat Flynn: It’s not like you’re targeting five year olds who literally don’t have money. You’re targeting people, young adults and adults most likely, who want to get into photography. They obviously know that there’s going to be some sort of investment, especially when it comes to equipment. If they can afford the equipment or be able to rent it, they’re going to have a lot of value coming from you and would likely be able to afford you as well.

Walid Azami: Solid point. That’s a solid point for sure. I got it, it’s common sense. So there’s that. Then of course I love what you said about maybe putting the opportunity to sign up for the mail list earlier on in the book, so that—as they become frustrated or if they are overwhelmed they may not reach the end of the book. I love the idea of putting that in the front end to sign up for something, and then potentially very soon after, up-sell on coaching or workshops.

Probably one of the biggest points from today is maybe I downplayed the effect of being able to shadow me on a magazine shoot or a commercial shoot. I would just mention that as a by the way, but I really have never written it down on the website or bullet pointed it. I think that might be a huge selling point to sign up for further information.

Pat Flynn: Yeah, dude it’s a huge opportunity. If you were starting out in a career you would bend over backwards for that.

Walid Azami: I would kill for that.

Pat Flynn: You could try this out too, I don’t know the legalities of it, but you could potentially offer a spot as an Instagram ad to get more Instagram followers.

Walid Azami: Okay, so I’ll look into that.

Pat Flynn: I mean, I’m just brainstorming, but the fact that you’re letting people do that is huge. That’s something that could potentially turn into content too on a blog, or behind the scenes on your Instagram channel, and a video—that’s just bonkers.

Walid Azami: Okay, yeah. No, I love that, thank you. I’m happy to hear you say that at least I’m on the right path, I just need to push myself a little bit more and to not be so shy about asking for their support. I will look into that Instagram ad idea also, in exchange for more followers.

Pat Flynn: How can we, as a community here, make sure that you take action on this? How can I help you more?

Walid Azami: I would love to just—if possible, I would love to set a deadline where I can even email you and say, “Pat, I promised by this date the following things would happen and here they are delivered.” I just am maybe being held accountable, but I’m so open to if you have any suggestions of how I could maybe receive the help too. I’ve always been huge on doing it myself and never asking for help, which is a huge downfall.

Pat Flynn: What’s your Twitter handle or Instagram?

Walid Azami: On Instagram it’s @HowtoPhotograph.

Pat Flynn: Just literally, HowtoPhotograph is your username there?

Walid Azami: That’s it, yeah.

Pat Flynn: I see it. All right guys, if you are on Instagram right now and you’re hearing this, and you want to help Walid take the steps to make this happen, find him, @HowtoPhotograph, and just send him a quick message of encouragement. What I would recommend to you Walid, is also take some time today to consider all the things you want to do and send me an email later, within twenty-four hours, with that date and that deadline like you talked about. That way I can just plan my schedule, a quick reminder to go and message you on that day to see how things are going. So knowing that’s coming can help you push forward.

Walid Azami: That’s amazing, Pat. Thank you.

Pat Flynn: Well man, I got you. We got you. @HowtoPhotograph on Instagram, approaching 30k followers. Great job, man. Thank you for being vulnerable and for sharing all this today. We wish you the best.

Walid Azami: Thank you so much. I appreciate it, and thank you, just for everything you do. I learned so much.

Pat Flynn: That’s why I’m here.

Walid Azami: Yeah, thanks Pat.

Pat Flynn: Hey Walid, thank you so much for being so genuine and honest. I cannot wait to see what you do with this information and how you use it moving forward. We’ll check in with you in a little bit.

But hey, thank you all for listening in. Thank you FreshBooks for sponsoring the show again. If you want to get that thirty-day free trial, all you have to do is go to and enter “Ask Pat” in the “How did you hear about us?” section.

We are coming up to the end of June here, June 2018. You might be listening to this in the future, which is okay too, but I haven’t asked for this in a while: If you have a minute it would be super helpful if you went on iTunes and left a review, an honest review for AskPat. That would help out the show quite a bit and it doesn’t take that long. If you haven’t yet done that, please do so. I just want to thank everybody who has done that in the past. I appreciate you so much and I just want to wish you all the best.

Thanks guys for listening in. Make sure you hit that Subscribe button if you haven’t already either while you’re there, because we got more stuff coming your way. Cannot, cannot wait to share it with you. It’s going to be awesome. Cheers guys, take care, and keep crushing it. Bye.

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