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AP 1078: How Do I Build a Robust and Engaged Community That Translates to Sales Later?

AP 1078: How Do I Build a Robust and Engaged Community That Translates to Sales Later?

By Pat Flynn on

Katherine has a built a business and community around naturopathic health and wellness at She’s doing all sorts of things to expand her successful physical practice into the digital realm. There’s a Facebook group, a twelve-week online course to transform students’ gut health, and she’s now in the process of creating and producing the Shift Podcast to reach even more people. With so many balls in the air, she has some questions about how to make all the pieces fit together, and what to emphasize when.

What’s really exciting about this particular episode is just how prepared Katherine was. She has a ton of questions about a wide variety of topics, so there’s tidbits for just about anyone. We cover everything from how to build a community that helps itself to what kinds of offers are reasonable for affiliate marketing in her industry.

Building community is a big point of emphasis for Katherine. As someone who tells clients to spend less time on social media, she’s a little conflicted about driving everyone to a Facebook group to continue the conversation. We cover some alternatives, including one tool that I’m really excited about, Mighty Networks.

We also talk through how to make that connection between your podcast and some of your paid offerings. A lot of the time, it comes down to trusting in the fact that if what your built really makes a difference in your customers’ lives, you can lean on them to be your biggest advocates. We go over how to get them talking and the most effective way to frame their stories to win over even more fans. There’s a lot here, so be sure to listen to the full episode to hear how Katherine and I put all the pieces together.

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Pat Flynn: What’s up everybody, Pat Flynn here and welcome to episode 1078 of AskPat 2.0. You’re about to listen to a coaching call between myself and an entrepreneur just like you. Today we’re speaking with Katherine, who has a brand new podcast called the Shift Podcast, as well as a business clinic called and she helps people through wellness in her very special way. And she has a growing community, she wants to expand that community. She wants to make sure that the podcast and the community sort of speak well together and obviously, in the end, she wants people to go deeper into her various offerings and products. So that’s what we’re going to be talking about today. There’s some stopping points and some things that are holding her back. But what is really interesting that you’ll hear is that she came very prepared with a lot of questions and we dive into a lot. So this will be a fantastic episode and again, you should check her out at the Shift Podcast, this is Katherine Maslen.

And before we get to that, I just want to say, hey, thanks to everybody who has supported my upcoming book. It’s coming out in about two-and-a-half weeks from this point of publication for this podcast, and I’m really excited. There’s been a lot of people talking about it already. It’s called Superfans and, in my eyes, it’s the best way to grow your business. Not let’s get new traffic, let’s do . . . yes, those things are important to SEO. Yeah, that’s important. But you know what is better and more fun? Building superfans in your business who will help grow your business for you and bring warm people in. This is what this whole book is about and if you want to check it out, you can actually get it pre-ordered right now. And when it launches, if you pre-order it before launch, as soon as it launches, you’ll also get the audiobook for it as well. Already been recorded. It’s already available and it’ll be given to you after the launch, but you can pre-order it now if you go to Again, one more time, You can pre-order that and you’ll get the audiobook, whether it’s the Kindle version or the print version, but we’re going to have a massive launch. It’ll be exciting and I’m thankful for your support. So again,

Alright, now let’s get to the conversation with Katherine from the Shift Podcast and the Shift Clinic. Here we go. Katherine, welcome to AskPat 2.0. Thanks for being on the show today.

Katherine Maslen: Thank you for having me.

Pat: Absolutely. Why don’t you take a quick moment to tell everybody listening and myself a little bit about you and how you got to where you’re at today.

Katherine: So my name is Katherine Maslen. I am a naturopath and nutritionist by trade and I’ve been seeing patients for about twelve years. I’m also the founder of a business called Shift. Shift is a wellness company where we focus on offering people care to work through the journey of wellness. We believe that wellness is a journey that has ups and downs and it’s how we navigate that that determines the success that we will have moving through that. That’s what we do. I’m also the host of this Shift Podcast, which is actually going to be released today.

Pat: Congratulations. That’s awesome. Everybody should go check that out.

Katherine: Yeah, so this is really timely. Yeah, so that’s what I do.

Pat: That’s called the Shift Podcast. I’d love to know a little bit more about why you’re calling it “the Shift.” Is it, there needs to be a shift in the industry, is there a shift in a person’s mindset? Let us in on a little bit of the behind the scenes there.

Katherine: So whenever you have a big change in your life, whether it be health or anything else, really, there needs to be a shift that occurs. For some people, this might be a really big shift. For other people, it might be small shifts that lead to these big results. But one thing we know for sure is this shift or change needs to occur. So the shift explores the concept of how we make the shift: What information do we need? What mindset do we need? How have other people made the shift? So that we can then make our own shifts in our life. The first season we’re focusing on gut health and how to help people shift their gut health in the right direction.

Pat: Love it. So important. So the Shift Podcast—do you have a website that we could direct people to as well?

Katherine: Yup. It’s

Pat: Alright. The last question I have before we dig in a little bit is about the business itself. What’s the business model there? Is it mostly coaching or are there courses? Let us in on that a little bit.

Katherine: We do virtual memberships. We service people anywhere in the world and we primarily use naturopathic care. So we’re doing one on one consultations with people guiding them through the wellness journey, as well as things like hypnosis counseling and emotional wellness because we have a really big emphasis on that. I have a physical business in Brisbane, Australia where we do that as well. And then we’re beginning to build out some online products too.

Pat: Fantastic. That sounds like a well-rounded business there and I’m excited to dig in. So why don’t we get started, just tell me what’s on your mind right now.

Katherine: What I wanted to have a conversation with you about is, this is the first time I’ve launched a podcast, but I’ve been talking about it for a while, but it’s happening. One of the focuses of the Shift is I really want to build a powerful community that’s well engaged, where we can really help people and help each other to make that shift. And then how does that then flow through to the product side? So building this robust community where there’s a lot of love and there’s a lot of stuff going on there and then moving into offering people products to help them on the back of that.

Pat: Perfect. Well, a podcast is a great way to support a business like the one that you have. Before I share some of my ideas for community—and getting people from the podcast into the community, into the products—I’d love to know a little bit, from your end, in terms of what you think the podcast is going to help with overall in your business. I mean, why are you even creating this podcast in the first place?

Katherine: I’ve spent six months creating this podcast. I’ve thought about it a lot. And really what I want to do is open up new channels, business-wise, new audiences, be able to reach more people, but also there’s twelve episodes in season one, and they’re all going to be released today at the same time. And it takes people on this journey. So it is a highly produced podcast. It’s sort of an audio documentary style, I guess.

Pat: So cool.

Katherine: Yeah. My hope is that by the end of that they really understand what they need to do to make a shift. They really have some self-empowerment stuff, but I want them to be ready to take that next step and take personal empowerment for their health and do something. And that might be taking the advice that we have in the podcast. It might be jumping in the group and getting support, but for a lot of people, they will want to work with us and actually get medicine and be guided through this process. So we have a product called Gut Shift, which is an online, automated, twelve-week product, where they get some group support, etc. And then we have our virtual memberships. My hope with the podcast is raising awareness, getting it out there, but also really, by the time people work with us, I want them to really understand the why behind what they’re doing. And I think that the podcast will achieve that really well.

Pat: I think so too. Is the main call to action into this gut program coming from the show or are there other means of working with you or taking action with you from it?

Katherine: There’s a few levels. We have a group. In the podcast, there’s a few promos. There’s one that getting people to join the group. There’s one asking people to take a quiz that we have, so they can do that for free. And then from there taking further action, so potentially doing the online product and, if they need something a little bit more, then the virtual membership, which is a six-month membership.

Pat: Got you. Is the group free to join?

Katherine: Yes.

Pat: That’s fantastic. So that’s where community will likely start to really form. What kinds of things are you going to do in the group that work with the podcast and keep it on top of people’s minds?

Katherine: It’s going to be managed by myself and our other naturopaths. I guess because I’ve been doing a bit of research and looking at a lot of other online groups and what I find is there’s a lot of these groups where they’re just not managed very well from a health perspective. There’s a lot of people giving erroneous advice and that type of thing. So I want to make it a group where people can get advice and the right advice. I want to do quite a few live Q and A’s. So live videos, getting people on that and just offering up great content I guess.

Pat: Yeah. No, that’s great. I mean, we’re off to a great start here, because really, community—you think of the word community, communication is a very similar word and in order for a thriving community to really form, you need communication and you need proper communication. So for you to go in there and share the right material and come at it from a perspective of actually wanting to help people is great. Allowing for people to speak up and ask questions and then you showing up as the host and the leader, that’s great. Okay. Every community needs a leader and when the leader doesn’t show up or the leader isn’t very present, it’s a lot more difficult. It’s not impossible, but it’s a lot more difficult for a community to thrive without that sort of leadership and that go to person, who can help inspire and educate everybody else. The other part about this that I hadn’t really heard yet, is how are you going to involve and encourage communication with each other? Not you to the group and the group to you, but the group to each other? This is the magic formula of communities is when groups are encouraged to share with each other. Have you given any thought to this? I have some ideas, but I wanted to hear from you first.

Katherine: I have thought about it and it is that one key too, because I want them to be able to help each other, but also I’m aware with Facebook that it can take—because this is where we’re going to build it, to begin with—is it can take a little bit to get that engagement happening because of logarithms or whatever’s going on, but I don’t know, actually, I would love to hear your suggestions around this.

Pat: Yes. Great. This is a great topic because actually, we’re . . . and this is a Facebook group, right? Not a Facebook page?

Katherine: Group. Yes.

Pat: Okay, perfect. Because we’re starting to hear now a lot of social media moguls talking about where social media is headed, especially Facebook with a lot of the recent news and the privacy issues and Mark Zuckerberg’s recent F8 keynote, talking about how the future is private. Actually, a lot of our public social channels, like our pages and our regular profiles are going to be seen less and what Facebook is wanting to encourage is the groups and privacy and messages. So you’re actually doing all the right things. I don’t even know if you knew all this stuff was happening, but all that to say you’re heading in the right direction, which is great. And really, like you said, it’s going to take some time for people to get used to seeing this as a place to go to because people want to be with other people just like them.

And there’s some amazing things you can do in groups like this such as . . . I only do it on a small part. I know I could even do a little bit better in my Facebook group, but for example, we have every Friday, the ability for people to, in my space of entrepreneurship, have a place for them to share their thing, whatever their business is. We have a post that goes out on Friday that basically gives them permission to spam, if you will, but it’s a really cool thing because you start to see everybody’s stuff and everybody starts to share everything with each other. Other groups that I know of, that I’m a part of, encourage wins. So they have like “Wins Wednesday.” Every Wednesday, everybody, you’re going to share your latest win with everybody and that really encourages the group to share with each other and they go, “Yeah, great job Rachel. You’re amazing.” People start to follow along with each other and they even connect privately inside the group through messages. I mean, you as the facilitator of this group are able to start seeing relationships form there, which is really amazing under you and that only heightens your brand and you being the common factor. It just elevates the brand.

What happens when you have the group talking to each other and they start finding their people there, is they’re going to invite other people like them into the group, too. And this is why this is so important. Welcoming new members in a way that makes them feel special. Right? One thing that you can do with your admins that you have in there, or maybe over time, you’re going to find some power users in the group. It’s important to reward them for being very active, right? Because they’re going to continue to be active and they’re going to continue to feel great about being a part of almost the kind of group leadership, if you will. One thing that I am going to start doing in some of my groups is having a welcome committee. Some way to recognize people who are brand new to the group and giving them a shout out or allowing them to sort of share a little bit about themselves. This is something I do in my paid groups, where I encourage people to go in and introduce themselves and share a little bit about themselves. And I encourage everybody who’s already in the group to always welcome and make those members feel welcomed. I think that’s sort of “level one” of getting the group to communicate with each other to make each other feel welcome. Are those sparking any ideas for you?

Katherine: Absolutely. I think that’s a really good idea. It’s funny you said that about the future of social media, because I just feel like something’s going to change and almost I have this fear around Facebook, and I’ve even been looking at paid platforms or getting my own app designed and taking the community off Facebook completely. What do you think about that?

Pat: Great question. I think that a lot of people are in the same camp as you, just a little bit worried, right? I mean, I think groups are here to stay, especially with Facebook, obviously not going anywhere tomorrow, but who knows. MySpace was the thing for a while and now it’s gone. Right? I think that a lot of people are looking for other options. I still think Facebook groups is the number one place to have a community right now. But thinking ahead and determining, okay, well what if it were to go away, where can we bring people? And this is really exciting because we’re seeing other platforms where we have a little bit more control pop up. If everything is headed toward privacy and close-knit groups and your own communities, it makes sense that these companies are popping up now.

There’s one in particular that, potentially, you could look at for the future. It’s called Mighty Networks. It is from a woman founder who also founded a company called Ning, N-I-N-G, back in the day. It was actually a place where you could essentially create your own Facebook, in a way. It was pretty cool but it was a little bit clunky and she sold it off. I think Mighty Networks is her new big thing. Somebody who I follow and admire, Dan Miller is building his community there now and I’m hearing a lot of great things about it and new features are coming out and I would definitely recommend exploring it. It seems like if you know that you’re going to have a tight-knit group of people and you want to have control over how communication is done there and you don’t want the sort of outside influences of being on Facebook, the algorithms and all the political stuff that’s happening there and the other messages. If you want your own community, Mighty Networks right now is the place that I think would be worth researching, at least to start.

Katherine: Thank you. That’s really good advice. Because I guess the other thing is part of our programs is we are trying to get people to unplug from social media a little bit, for their mental health and trying not to be exposed to negativity. So it is that sort of values misalignment a little bit to be like, “Stop using Facebook but be in our group.”

Pat: You’re right, you’re right. My team and I, we actually had that, literally the same discussion about encouraging people to focus more on their own communities versus getting on social media, which is pretty toxic and can waste a lot of time, and you can fall into these traps there and waste a lot of energy and time and frustration. We are looking at Mighty Networks as something for, potentially, the future too. You’re right. Encouraging people to go, “Hey you know what? You have your health and your mental emotions to think about, come into this place, it’s safe. You’re away from all the toxicity out there.” That could be a great option. And a lot of people are flocking to Mighty Networks now, so that could be good to explore. That’s not to say you should go there now, or you even have to be there anytime soon, but it could be a good “phase two” for your community. I think that, and I would probably, foreshadow that your audience would like a place that’s safe and your own that you can control outside of Facebook.

Katherine: I wonder too about paid communities. With the Gut Shift program, they’ll have their own private community and in there we’ll offer more value, more content, more support, essentially. A bit of a higher-level version of that. What I was thinking was, once they finish the program, so they have their twelve weeks, and I was thinking of charging just a small fee for them to retain the ability to stay in that group and have access to the Q and A’s, have access to that content. What do you recommend around that?

Pat: Well, Mighty Networks, again, could be an option because I know you can create different groups and have different badges for people, I believe. You can have private groups within that Mighty Network that you build for, for example, your paying members. I’m not sure, however, in terms of collecting those payments, if that’s done within Mighty Networks or would that be done separately and then you unlock that ability to be in that group or create a new group just for those people. I know that, for example, I have members of my premium courses who each have different Facebook groups for each of those different courses and those aren’t based on subscription model. But I know some people who do have, outside of Facebook, a payment method for subscription and renewal then gives them access to the Facebook group, literally a Facebook group, and it’s only available to those people and once they cancel, an admin or a VA goes in and goes, “Okay, I’ll find that group member in the Facebook group and I’ll cancel their payment on Stripe,” or what have you, “and then I’ll remove them from the group.” That’s how it’s run. It’s kind of clunky, right? Because it’s a bunch of different things. Again, I’m not sure if Mighty Networks is the hub for the payment part, but I’m pretty sure that it is also something that you could do to have the private area for the premium members, but they’re still within the same community. Does that make sense?

Katherine: A hundred percent. Yeah.

Pat: That would be a good solution, related to that. What else is on your mind related to this?

Katherine: We have the podcast. We have this community. What other ecosystems around this do I need to build? I have the podcast, I have my community, I’ve got that going on. I’ve got a few email-type funnels, etc. What else do you think could really just turn it up?

Pat: Before expanding outside of what you just mentioned, there are some other things you can do and then I’ll mention one other place that you could go search for expanded reach and such. But with your podcast, one of the big things I love about podcasting is it’s a perfect place to showcase stories. In season two perhaps, or you can append the old episodes of season one with these, you can take stories of your successful students and you can tell a little bit about their story. Because that’s where your prospects, your future customers are going to go, “Wow, that person is just like me.” Or, “Wow, I had the same doubts that they did.” And these become, essentially, testimonials, but they’re not testimonials in the sense that you go and ask this person to go, “Hey, tell me why my program was awesome?” You ask them about what they were struggling with, how they were feeling before, and some of the biggest struggles they’ve had and what helped them. And, of course, naturally through that, Katherine, your program’s going to be mentioned, and it becomes a very genuine, authentic, true-life case study that supports your business.

In Episode 275 of my podcast, for example, I interviewed three of my students. All in one episode, it’s about fifteen minutes each, all in one episode. And they were my Beta students from my podcasting course. What happened was, after that episode, I had so many emails from people going, “Pat, I didn’t even know I needed to start a podcast. I was just listening to your show, and I really connected with Dr. B and what she said and she’s the same age as me and she’s over sixty, and she started a podcast.” So for everybody who was like, “I can’t do it because it’s too technical.” That busted that objection. Dr. Shannon was somebody who had an offline business going online and that resonated with a lot of people who have offline businesses who wanted to go online. And she shared how her podcast helped support her with that. Rob, the third one, was a male, and he talked about his travel agency. I was able to hit like all different kinds of people and all the different kinds of objections to basically go, “Wow, there’s really no reason I shouldn’t start a podcast.” And I timed that, of course, perfectly with the week launch of my course, and it did very, very well.

Using your podcast with your email list, and the group, and the community that you have, I mean, can you imagine interviewing a success story on your podcast and then sharing that person and their success story in your group and having everybody comment on how awesome that story was? There’s good feelings there. Of course that also just supports the fact that everybody who’s free in this group are going to go, “Wow, I need to get that program.” Of course, people in your group are going to go, “Yeah, I have that program too. I remember speaking with that person, man, they’re hero of mine.” Just great feelings all around. So even before you expand outward there’s some inward things you can do to really get people fired up.

Katherine: Really interesting you say that because I did interview four of my patients for the Shift. I interviewed twenty-four experts and then four patients and what was really interesting was, we have a lot of video testimonials or written testimonials, but they’re very short and I spent an hour with my patients on picking this story and the value that I got from that even just for myself was amazing. Once the Shift is released, we will start releasing the “expert series.” That will be an episode each week on each of our experts highlighting more of their story and then we’re going to release the patient series. So that will be then their stories unpacked like that as well.

Pat: Perfect. Yeah. And use the group that you have to make those stories even more great. Right? Paint that person as a hero to your community because they represent them. They represent the people who are in your community who are not there yet. Right? Or who are just like them.

Katherine: Yeah, a hundred percent. That’s great.

Pat: Now the other thing I was going to mention was affiliates. If you have other key members in your network, it could even be these people, these experts who were interviewed on your show, other colleagues. This is a good time to use the podcast and your email and the group to connect with them. Maybe they have a program that would be a great supplement to yours and yours, a great supplement to theirs. Getting another person who has the trust of an audience to endorse you is huge. It’s huge for your show. If you didn’t even want to have the products be a part of this discussion, it’s just the show itself. Your podcast is a great way to get, for example, on another person’s show and get all those podcasts listeners who already have that app open, who are listening to that person’s podcast who are now hearing their favorite person interview you. And then are just a tap away to subscribe to your show, and the journeys that you’re sharing there and the other experts that are on there too. Especially if that person was on your show. It’s just like, “Hey, if you want to listen to the episode where I was on Katherine’s show, it’s episode this of this season, and you can check it out there and all the other great things.” That’s a great lead into and a place where people are already opening up an app.

I mean, this is why I’m not mentioning things like Facebook ads. I mean, Facebook ads work, but when you think about it, a person’s there not to see an ad and when they see your ad they have to be compelled by the ad. Then they have to click open the app to go listen to your podcast, and then press play . . . they have to do seven different things before even listening to a word from you. I mean it’s so hard versus you’re already on a show where somebody else has earned the trust with that audience. So if you haven’t yet thought about guest podcasting or getting on other people’s shows to collaborate with them, to add your expertise to their audience, I mean, that’s going to be a huge way for you to grow.

Katherine: Absolutely. That is something that we’re focusing on. I’m glad you brought up the affiliate stuff because for me this is really new. Even online products are new for us, we had to spend a lot of time thinking how do we translate what we do when somebody is in front of us into an online product that still works without having that encouragement and support, etc.? But with affiliates . . . so for instance, if I have, what I’m thinking is other practitioners that are non-competitive, so it might be chiropractors or osteopaths or doctors or whatever it is, that want to recommend my program to their patients. Is there a gold standard with what people do in regards to payments or incentives for that or that type of thing?

Pat: Yeah, I mean, it’s different in every industry. I mean you think about physical products and being an affiliate for things on Amazon. You can get five to eight percent, which is a tiny bit, but if you’re recommending those products anyway, you might as well, and they definitely add up. For programs and information, it can be upwards of fifty percent or even more, especially if you have an online course that then leads into the higher level of virtual coaching program. You know that you’re going to make more money off of that virtual coaching program, but that way you can offer more to an affiliate to incentivize them more upfront. I’ve even seen some people offer their online courses to affiliates for a hundred percent commission, which is kind of insane, but when you think about it, it’s like, okay, well here’s a hundred ninety-seven dollars to the affiliate, so you don’t make any money off of that. But then you have a twenty thousand dollar program on the back end of it, right? Then it’s like, okay, well it makes sense to sort of almost consider that advertising in a way, where you’re paying for that up front and getting that qualified lead in.

But fifty percent is pretty usual. Thirty-three percent is not out of the norm as well. If it’s for something a little bit more expensive, it’s not often fifty percent because that’s—if it’s a two-thousand-dollar product, a thousand’s a lot. I mean that’s huge incentive and a person would be more likely to promote it with such an incentive and there are big programs out there who do offer that, but even two hundred fifty dollars per signup, which is 12.5 percent, but still that’s a lot of money for somebody coming in and that’s often enough for a person to go, “Yeah, you know what, I’m going to put a little bit of juice behind this and promote it for Katherine because she’s amazing and her stuff is in alignment with what I’m trying to teach, but not competition. It’s supplemental and it would make sense for me to do this because I get four people, that’s a thousand dollars,” and they may have an audience already that might just bite into it.

The commissions kind of differ. Really it’s a gut check and sometimes what you can do is offer, and this is pretty standard, like twenty-five percent, right? However, there might be some special affiliates—super affiliates, if you will—who you have a great relationship with, who you just kind of might reward with a little bit more. You can even tell them, “Normally I have people I pay out twenty-five percent but for you, because you’re amazing and it seems like you’re going to do a little bit more, I’m going to offer you thirty-three percent or even fifty percent.” You can play around with it a little bit. There’s no, one size fits all.

Katherine: Yeah, that’s great. The other thing I’m conscious of is that it’s easy for someone to hit buy and do an online program. But it’s harder for them to actually finish it and get the results. What have you observed with people that have gone through your online programs? What are the things that stop them from succeeding?

Pat: This is a great question. Just overall, not even just my courses, but I know that the less a person pays, the less likely they are to finish a program. I try to play in the premium course sandbox, not just because I know I have premium content that they can’t get anywhere else, but also because I know that that investment that they put will mean they will take action. And actually my podcasting course, I don’t know the exact percentage, but a lot of people tell me it’s one of the only courses they’ve actually ever completed. Part of it is because there is somewhat of an investment up front, but also it’s because I also hold their hand all the way through and I know exactly what they’re going through and exactly the problems that I can help solve.

There are some mechanisms that you can include in an online course that can help, for example, especially at the start, you don’t know where people are going to be held up. Allowing for people and giving people in your course permission to tell you when they’re stuck—so important. A lot of online course creators don’t want that because they might be just afraid to hear what they didn’t do right, right? Or they just don’t want to deal with people, which is kind of unfortunate. I say, if you’re stuck anywhere, you let me know because then I can help you through that. But not only just help that one person, but I can create something like an extra PDF or some big note on that lesson that says, “Hey, this is a lesson where a lot of people get stuck. Here’s what you can do, here’s likely what’s going through your head. Here’s how Sarah got through this,” and even feature her sort of get-out-of-stuck-at-that-point level, which is really great because people come to that, and they go, “Oh, this looks like it’s going be harder, but it looks like Katherine already knows this is going to be hard and has given me the tools to make sure I get through this part.” I think it’s just that extra level of care Katherine, it goes a very long way.

The reason why, in general, on average, people don’t finish online courses is because the online course creators think it’s just create and then automate, create and then automate. As true as that is for the income side of things, you can create it once and then you can automate it and money can roll in. The truth is if you really care about your audience, you’re going to have to work a little bit harder to understand where they’re getting stuck to help them through that process. You can even get it so sophisticated such that—and again, you don’t want to over complicate, but this is something I do, and a number of other people do—is, if you know there’s a lesson that people are stuck on, you can send an automated email when a person gets that lesson, to drill in even more like and be a coach for them in an automated way through email. Like, “Hey, by the way, just noticed you got to module four, this module is extra hard but it’s so important. Here’s why. Here’s some of the things that have helped others who’ve gotten unstuck from this and I just wanted to send you this email to let you know this stuff is coming and I’m here for you.”

There’s even other mechanisms that we don’t do but other people have done, which is if you see that a person is stuck in a module, just based on time, they’ve been in a module for three weeks and you know it should only take them a few days. You can have an email fire out and go, “Hey, noticed you are stuck in this module. Are you okay? Do you need any help?” And wow, that just like, “Whoa, you actually care? You actually want me to finish this. That’s awesome.” I think it’s just the approach more than anything that you take and it sounds like you actually care about your people, so likely you’re going to get a good success rate with the orders based on what I’m hearing.

Katherine: That’s some fantastic advice, actually, and not that difficult to do with the software that I’m using. Thank you.

Pat: Oh, you’re welcome. What are you using by the way?

Katherine: Kajabi.

Pat: Kajabi, yeah, it’s super sophisticated. If you can understand how to use it, it could be very, very powerful. That’s great. Cool. We’ve covered a lot Katherine, any other final things we can discuss to help you on your way? It sounds like things are going well and you’re at that point where you’re just making sure you’ve got all the pieces and hopefully this confirms a lot of what you’re doing and hopefully has filled in some of the gaps for you too.

Katherine: No, I just wanted to say thank you. I’ve got a whole page of notes here and some really good advice that’s really helpful at this stage.

Pat: Great, great. Would it be helpful if I send this recording to you? Because we talked about a lot. Usually, we focus on one micro thing on these episodes, but this is great. I feel like you came prepared with questions, even, and would it be helpful if I just sent this audio file to you right after so you have it?

Katherine: Yes, please. That’d be wonderful.

Pat: Okay. I’d be happy to do that. Cool. Katherine, thank you so much for coming on. One more time, where can people go? Where should people listen to you at?

Katherine: So the Shift with Katherine Maslen and

Pat: Alright. Good luck to you and can’t wait to hear back from you. Maybe we can connect way in the future and just see how things go?

Katherine: Absolutely.

Pat: Alright. Awesome. You rock. Thanks, Katherine.

Katherine: Thanks, Pat.

Pat: Awesome. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Katherine and again you can check her out at or go and listen to her podcast, the Shift Podcast. And best of luck to you, Katherine, and to everybody else out there listening who gets inspired from these episodes and wants to take action, that’s really what it’s all about. Obviously Katherine is an action taker and all of you are too, so make sure you do that and if you want to take action and also get coached, just like Katherine did today, all you have to do is go to, fill out the application there and I may select you in the future and we’ll coordinate and get on a call just like the one that you just heard.

Big thanks to everybody who’s been leaving reviews and also make sure you subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already. August is just around the corner, which means my new book, Superfans, is about to hit the shelves and get your way. If you want to get it early and pre-order it, you’ll also get the audiobook for free once it comes out. So if you want to do that, Thank you so much. I appreciate you and here’s to you and your success and I look forward to serving you in the next episode. Cheers and Team Flynn for the Win. Bye.

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