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AP 1077: How Do I Best Scale My Business After Getting Started and Building a Following?

AP 1077: How Do I Best Scale My Business After Getting Started and Building a Following?

By Pat Flynn on

Kate has spent the last ten years living a plastic-free lifestyle both to live a healthier life and for the good of the planet. She shares her message at where she offers an online course and through her Instagram. She wants to scale her business and spread her message even further but isn’t sure how to take the next step to really cement herself as an expert in the field.

I think this conversation is a little unusual for AskPat because we actually set our sights on some fairly traditional media: TV appearances, public speaking, and connecting with schools. At the same time, Kate is already taking a lot of the right steps to get herself to the next level. She’s just hired a PR person to help with media, so we talk about how to work with someone like that to set goals and clarify what the work is all about.

My other big recommendation for anyone who is trying to establish themselves as a thought leader like Kate is to consider writing a book. It gives you a real foundation that you can keep coming back to give you credibility and get you in the room. For your fans, it gives them a way to support you that’s at a lower price point than a course or other more involved offering.

The amazing thing is that Kate has already done that and her book, I Quit Plastics, is coming out in February through a traditional publisher. We talk through what she can do in the meantime to build excitement and forward momentum to make sure that it has the impact she wants it to have when it launches. There’s a lot in this episode so I hope you’ll take a listen.

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Pat Flynn: What’s up, everybody? Pat Flynn here and welcome to episode 1077 of Ask Pat 2.0. This is a podcast that is a coaching call between myself and an entrepreneur just like you. Today, we’re speaking with Kate Nelson from She has an amazing channel and business and, just, message to share about plastic use. She’s been plastic-free for several years now and she’s sharing her message. You can find her on Instagram @PlasticFreeMermaid, which currently has about seventy thousand followers. But just incredible. I love what she’s doing but she needs some help. She wants to scale her business and she wants to spread her message even more. How is she going to do that? That’s what we’re talking about today.

But before we get into that conversation, I just wanted to have a quick conversation with you about podcasting. You’ve heard me say this before, but podcasting’s growing. It is huge and everybody, in my opinion, should have a podcast of their own to grow their business, to share their message, to make money. If you’d like to start your podcast too, I have a cheat sheet for you to get started with a complete list of things you should be doing A to Z, start to finish, on everything you need. That’s free. All you have to do is go to No spaces or nothing, just one giant three words., and that will take you to the cheat sheet where you can go and check out that checklist, and there’s also some additional help and videos to help you along the way too. Get started with your podcast today.

All right, now let’s get into the conversation today with Kate form Here we go. Hey Kate. Welcome to Ask Pat 2.0. Thank you for joining me today. How are you?

Kate Nelson: Hey Pat! I’m great. Thanks so much for having me.

Pat: Awesome. Are you actually in New Zealand right now?

Kate: No. Actually, I live in Australia. I live in Byron Bay, but I’m in California.

Pat: Okay.

Kate: I’m in California for a wedding, which is a little bit better for the timezone.

Pat: Oh yeah, that works out then. Perfect.

Kate: Yeah, yeah.

Pat: Cool. Well, why don’t you tell us a little bit about what you do?

Kate: Yeah. I haven’t used single-use plastics for over a decade. I learned, around eleven years ago, that plastic doesn’t biodegrade and that it’s collecting in our oceans. So I kind of had that aha moment that my personal use of plastics—I was getting smoothies every day and salads in the plastic boxes and takeaway coffees—so my personal plastic consumption was contributing a lot to plastic pollution. So I phased them out of my life ten years ago, and now I teach people how to reduce their use of plastics, how to make the things that are packaged in plastic at home, which results in a more natural lifestyle, more connected to nature, a healthier lifestyle. Yeah, just less wasteful, so a low-impact lifestyle.

Pat: Wow, that’s amazing. First of all, thank you for doing that because I’m seeing it everywhere and I think we’re all feeling it now. What is the website? How can we just, really quick, learn more info and learn more about what you do?

Kate: Yeah. My website is That’s where I have my online courses, my mermaid retreats, and my blog. I also teach from the social platforms like Instagram and YouTube and Facebook. My handle is @PlasticFreeMermaid. I love that. The final question, before I dig in, because this is just really interesting to me is I’m sure one of the top questions that you might get is well, how hard is this to do? I think, perhaps, if you give people a perspective a little bit of what life would be like plastic-free, that might help us want to go down that direction.

Kate: Yeah, I think it’s all about perspective. I have, over the years, developed such a beautiful relationship with nature that it doesn’t feel hard making these choices; it feels natural, it feels like the little sacrifices that I love to make to create the world that I want to live in. Which is more integrated with the beauty of nature, and more connected to the things that I’m using instead of just purchasing, purchasing, purchasing. Yeah, it’s a little bit of deprogramming. It’s just so rich and fulfilling.

Pat: Thank you for that. Awesome. That’s fantastic. Again, one more time, for everybody listening: Start there. This is a big deal. So Kate, what’s on your mind with your business? How can I help you?

Kate: Yeah. I’m getting a lot of really great interest in learning how to quit plastics. People are also kind of expressing panic and fear around climate change, and just wanting to make a difference, so I’m creating online courses around how to quit plastics specifically, as well as teaching people environmental activism so that they can create an impact in their own communities. I also host mermaid retreats, which are probably the most fulfilling thing I do. I really enjoy those.

Pat: What is that?

Kate: They’re so fun. I take people on—mostly women—on week-long adventures. We either go sailing through Fiji, or swimming with whale sharks in western Australia, or sailing and swimming with humpback whales, or swimming with dolphins in Hawaii. We have this amazing ocean experience and then I also teach them throughout the week how to go plastic-free, environmental activism, and we meditate and do yoga. It’s a really lush experience, but it’s just kind of connecting with nature as well as learning all of these empowering skills. So I offer those, and then I do workshops. I’m touring around whilst I’m in California, speaking about my plastic-free lifestyle, teaching some of my great recipes. My deodorant recipe’s really popular. And then one of the main things that is really motivating for people because it is kind of a large—or, I guess, I suppose an extreme lifestyle choice—so one of the things that I hear from people that’s really motivating for making this switch is the estrogen-mimicking chemicals that we’re exposed to the more we use plastics. I guess I’ve got a large range of information that I want to offer and get out there, and I would love your help on how to scale this the best possible way to reach more people.

Pat: Of all the things that you do, what is reaching the most people at this point?

Kate: I know that my Instagram currently is reaching the most people. When I do IGTV, I get really great engagement. To be honest, I’m a little bit wary of putting all of my eggs in my Instagram basket. So I’ve diversified a bit and I’m really trying to direct people to my YouTube page, so I’m trying to do more DIY videos, and get more videos over there as well. And then using my Instagram platform, I’m trying to drive people to my website to sign up for my online course, but I think it’s a high price point to jump in there, so I probably need a lower priced item for people.

Pat: Well, I’m behind you on not putting all your eggs in one basket, and obviously, there are people in many different places who need to and should hear the message that you have to share. The question would be: okay, what first dominoes can we knock down that would then knock over all the other dominoes? You know, there’s probably some things even behind Instagram that could lead people into your Instagram, and all these other different places, and all the other courses and the workshops, and the experiences, and the training that you do. There’s a couple big things but I’d love to ask you to see if you have any ideas on some bigger-scaled efforts that you could create that could voice yourself in front of more people. Have you thought about this or have expressed any interest in something bigger beyond just your website to get your message out there?

Kate: Absolutely. I’m all ears. I would love to do more.

Pat: Yeah. There’s a couple ways you could scale, especially really important messages like that. Two things quickly, actually, three things come to mind, and I’ll list them out for you. When I share these with you, obviously, with many people who I teach, I can share a number of ideas and then you can either, A, be overwhelmed by them and just go, “Oh my gosh. Now what do I do? Which one do I do first?” Or, B, see them as options, pick one, and kind of go with the one you’re most interested in, the one that you feel the most excited about, those kinds of things.

Option number one would be media, like mass media. The reason I’m saying this is because like you said, there are a lot of people who are now getting a little scared about where the world is headed, and this is very newsworthy, what you are doing. To me, it’s something that—

Kate: This is kind of trending.

Pat: Yeah, it’s super trending, and there’s no reason why you can’t become a voice for this on a more scalable level, in magazines, on TV. Have you ever thought about hiring or having somebody with some PR experience to help you fuel this fire?

Kate: Yeah. I just hired a lady here in LA to help me with some PR.

Pat: Oh, great.

Kate: Hopefully she can help me permeate the mass media here in the states.

Pat: You said you do a little bit of speaking. Tell me about what that’s like because PR can help you get more stages and those kinds of things. What is your frequency? What kinds of stages are you on?

Kate: Yeah. I’ve been based in Australia for the past four years and last year I really started to take on more speaking opportunities, which was super fun. Speaking at a lot of festivals, conscious events, environmental themed events, speaking at different businesses. I was flown to Asia Dive Expo in Singapore to speak. I joined Greenpeace in Europe last month helping them with their plastics campaign. Because I’ve been an environmental activist in this space for ten years as well, so I’m quite connected to a lot of the nonprofits in this field. So I’ve had some opportunities through those connections, but I don’t have quite as many connections in media. Yeah, that’s why I thought I’d hire the PR lady.

Pat: Cool. With PR, and I don’t know who it is that you hired, but I know it could be hit or miss sometimes.

Kate: Yeah, I’m a little worried.

Pat: I would really, in your head, have some clear goals about what you would like this experience with your agent to be. And if you can knock out what those exact metrics are or those exact things that you land on, that would be really helpful for that person probably to go, “Okay, well this is what Kate wants and this is going to mean success for us working together.” And likely, they’ll want to support you with that. Have you ever thought about—and maybe this is something that your agent could work on—would be something like a TED Talk or a TEDx talk?

Kate: Yeah, I’d love to get the TED Talk.

Pat: There’s a few people. I know a guy, his name’s Azul Terronez. He was actually my book agent and he was able to get on a TEDx talk, not in the US, but it was even outside of the US. It has over a million views and it’s opened up so many new opportunities for him, from books to more speaking. That could be a really good goal to have because with the speaking that you’re likely doing already, especially when you say things like Greenpeace and all these other activists, it’s like you’re almost preaching to the choir, you know?

Kate: Right.

Pat: In front of those audiences versus something like a TEDx talk, which could be a high authority talk that would then reach the masses. That’s another idea and perhaps a goal a PR person could have with you.

Kate: Yeah, that’s a great goal. Thank you.

Pat: The other part of this would be—so option number two, and of course, obviously these all relate to each other but they’re starting points perhaps—would be a book. A book could be—

Kate: I just wrote a book.

Pat: You did?

Kate: Yeah!

Pat: That’s good because we’re on the same wavelength, then.

Kate: Yeah, I just hired the PR lady, I wrote the book, but I do have a question about this.

Pat: Sure.

Kate: I was offered a publishing deal by a small, family publisher in Australia, and they’re beautiful, and I really love them. I submitted the manuscript in March and it’s due to be published in February of next year. Yeah, so that feels like ages away for me. I’m so eager to get this book out, but of course, I’m trying to be patient. I think that the distribution for the US and Europe is . . . They’re mainly based in Australia, so of course this is more of a legal thing around our contract, but in the build up to that, I’m curious about how you suggest to maximize my time until February to really make the most of the book launch, and really help support its success, and ideally, distribution around the globe?

Pat: Yeah, you’re super smart, Kate. You’re asking all the right questions. If you can’t really launch it until February, and I have some other followup questions related to the book and it being published in Australia versus other places, but if you can’t publish it until then, you can definitely let people know about it and use your platforms that you have now to create buzz for it. One thing that I’m doing for my upcoming book, Superfans, in August is for anybody who pre-orders it, we’re going to be giving away the audiobook and collecting peoples’ receipts to be able to then make sure they did buy it before sending them the audiobook. So some incentive to pre-order it so that you can have a big splash, if you will, on launch day in February.

Kate: I like that very mermaidy term. Just give a little splash.

Pat: Yeah, thank you. So what you could see if you could get done with the publisher is, okay, it’s not going to be up and launched until February, but could we have pre-order pages ready? Like on Amazon. That way, people can just begin to transact with it sooner, despite not having be able to read it later.

Kate: Great because I’m super engaged with my audience on Instagram. I’ve been telling them the entire time I’ve been writing it, so they’re very eager to get it.

Pat: Oh, good for you.

Kate: It’s kind of almost like, I feel like it’s dropped off a bit just because everyone was excited: “When’s the book going to come out? When’s the book coming out?” And then now it’s February. It just feels like ages away. I wasn’t sure how to bring interest back, bring energy back to the book since it just feels so far away. So maybe, yeah, pre-order seems like a good idea.

Pat: Pre-ordering can be great because that’s the call to action after you get people excited about it again where any excitement doesn’t go to waste anymore. You’ll have something. We are . . . What month are we in? May, now. We’re going to get our book on pre-order probably in the next couple of weeks, so there will be ample time for people to have it in their receipts, and hopefully, get it in August when it goes live.

The other thing about this is you can, now that you have the manuscript, if it’s okay with your publisher, you could publish little, miniature features of segments of the book once a month or what have you, leading up to the book to kind of tease people. You go to these stores, they give you a little sample tasting, and then people want more, and that can get people really excited again leading up until February. You have a lot of runway, but like you said, that’s a lot of time. You’re going to have to maybe map out different things that you could do, maybe even going live on Facebook or other platforms to just specifically talk about the topics of the book, and be able to mention it, and then talk about the pre-order again. These are things that you could do between now and February.

Kate: And for the mini-segments of the book, it’s called I Quit Plastics, and it’s about how I personally quit plastics, and then it gives recipes for different parts of your life. So kitchen, all the things that are in the kitchen that are wrapped in plastic, milk—

Pat: You even said deodorant, right, was another thing?

Kate: Yeah. There’s a bath and beauty section. There’s a cleaning section so you can make cleaning products. All these things. Would a good mini-features, would those just be like a few little recipe shares or some quick tips? Would those be kind of in eBook style?

Pat: Yeah, or even just on your website. Like, “Hey guys, today I want to share with you one of the several recipes that I have in my upcoming book and this is one of my favorite ones. Here’s a video of me showing you how to put it together.” They see you, and they hear you talking about the book, and making the thing, and seeing how easy it is, and “Hey, if you’d like to get more recipes like this, we have plenty more coming out in the book in February, so make sure you get your pre-order, and your bonus, and all that stuff between now and February when it launches. If you’re watching this in the future after the launch, go get the book because I’m here to serve the world, and you, and make sure we all have fun doing it,” or however your tagline is.

Kate: Got it. Okay, great.

Pat: Cool. So book, yeah, that’s great. I’m glad we’re on the save wavelength there because that’s going to allow you to get more people to hear your message, to hear your story. It’s cool that you’re going with a traditional publisher. My question related to that would be do they have any distribution in the US available? And making sure, obviously, they get the book in Amazon US, Amazon Europe, and other places, too. I’m not quite sure how that works with a publisher in Australia.

Kate: Right. Yeah, they’ve assured me that they have them. I think in the contract that if it doesn’t go well within a year, then I’m allowed to pursue another publisher, but I trust them and I think it’s going to be great.

Pat: Yeah, awesome. Well, that’s awesome. Well, best of luck with that. Definitely use that book for leverage. That’s what a book can do for people with a message. It’s leverage so that number one, you can get on more stages. It becomes a great talking point, obviously, especially if it starts to see some numbers behind it, which is great. So the launch is going to be really important, getting on lists, perhaps, could happen. There’s a lot of competition out there, but I had a self-published book and when you have something really important to share, you never know. I was able to get it on the Wall Street Journal bestsellers, so there’s no reason why you can’t with this one too. It’s even more important than my book. And leverage for getting onto TV, getting into magazine, those kinds of things.

Other things that you could do since you have time, actually, is to reach out to people who perhaps have written magazine articles. Or to reach out to my third option here, which would be influencers. People who have large audiences—whether they have expressed that they are environmental activists or not—if you know that they would resonate with you and your message, like I’m thinking of all the mom blogs out there. They should be supporting you with this because it’s just so important. Maybe there are mom blogs that you could do research on that have hinted at going plastic-free or reducing plastic waste, and you could reach out to them through your publisher, get galley copies or early copies of the book that you could send to them with a little message, maybe with a little product in there as well of something of your creation, and just a note or something to let them know that your book’s coming in February and that if they want to have you on as a guest, or a podcast guest, if you will, or a written guest post, or a feature, you’d be more than happy to do that. Because it’s more than just about growing your platform, it’s about the plastics. Going through influencers could be great because then you’re getting somebody else’s endorsement who has earned the trust of thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people. That’d be an amazing way. If there was some coordinated effort between all these things, that would be the best case scenario, but it doesn’t have to be.

Kate: Okay, right. Great idea because I actually, I do get a lot of influencers repost my stuff and just contact me and say, “Oh my gosh. Thank you! I was worrying about this issue. I’ve seen the photos of the beaches covered in plastic. I’m freaking out and I’m really grateful to find your page, and learn all these great solutions, and ways to reduce my impact.” So yeah, I guess I’ll start to nurture those relationships, and when the book is ready, send them a copy.

Pat: Yeah, there you go. You said it. That’s perfect. And then the fourth option—because I’m just continually getting these ideas, but it’s also great, what you’re doing, and again, it’s inspiring me actually to think a little bit harder for you here—schools. I think a lot of schools and kids have a lot of influence on their parents nowadays with especially these kinds of things. I know even at my school, there was a program element that was on last year where they were talking about trash and reducing waste. That’s actually the theme of a lot of what’s happening around the school now, which is great. They built a whale, it was a twenty-foot . . . No, maybe it’s ten feet. A ten-foot whale out of all the plastics that they found around campus just to build awareness for the entire kids in schools. There’s this big giant whale, it’s made out of plastic, and starting that conversation. I think that schools have a big impact on influencing, especially with the younger generations who are going to be the ones who are going to be using this stuff later, whatever they choose to use.

Kate: Well, I guess one of the things that I worry about is I’m very conscious of my footprint, so flying, I try to minimize flying. Do you have any suggestions for how I can reach people, get on stages, present at schools, without physically being there? Should I just make really engaging video content and then call in to schools and maybe say, “Hey?” Unfortunately, because it’s kind of a heavy topic, I come from this, which is very true to my personality, this sparkly, mermaid persona to present this issue. So it’s a little bit more accessible or trying to remind people of the magic and the mystery of the ocean to really inspire this activism or change in our lives. Perhaps I could create a little video introduction to the issue, and then talk about a few different ways that schools could make a difference on their own campus, and then maybe have a Skype call in and brainstorm with the kids? It could be kind of funny like I’m out in the ocean, so I can’t be there today because I’m a mermaid.

Pat: I like that.

Kate: But what are some things that you guys can do? And I can be kind of dressed up, mermaidy. Do you think that might work and I could just offer different, kind of have suggestions for things that they could do at their school?

Pat: Yeah, that sounds like a perfect scenario, actually, especially with the character coming into play there. You would be more relevant to the kids at that point. And at least in the US, mermaids are a huge thing right now. There’s even stores that are just selling mermaid things only that I’ve seen pop up, which are kind of crazy. Some mom-and-pop shops around the ocean that I’ve seen here in San Diego. But anyway, yeah, the truth is you can test any of these things, like what you’re describing, and just try one, you know? If it works, great. If not, then you can kind of discover okay, well, why didn’t that work? And go from there.

I totally hear you on not air traveling there, and perhaps it would mean just one day, doing one plane ride to up many different places versus one every single time. Or I know that even at my kids’ school, they do Skype calls with people. That’s definitely not out of the question, especially today with the technology that we all have available. They Skyped into somebody who was helping clean up after a hurricane that happened. They were live in all the rubble. The impact that that had on my kids, even just coming back home and talking about it, and wanting to help, they created a whole fundraising campaign, my kids, on our street because of it.

Kate: That’s so great!

Pat: Those people weren’t in-person. They were on Skype. You can definitely have an impact in that way too.

Kate: Yeah, okay. I have two questions.

Pat: Sure.

Kate: First of all, I had an idea. I mean, it would be really impactful to be able to Skype them from a polluted beach. That would be probably pretty powerful. When I get into my persona, sometimes I get the questions, really deep questions around where are my gills? How did I . . .

Pat: Oh, okay.

Kate: You know? Or I’ll do with kids, I’m sometimes distracted away from the ocean, and plastics, and I have this whole story about I’ve been sent to land by the mermaids because the mermaids, they keep getting pushed further and further out to sea because of all the plastic pollution, and it’s just really uncomfortable. So everyone voted, and they voted that I would come to land, and I would have to stay on land until I convince all the humans to quit using plastics and stop polluting the oceans, and blah, blah, blah, which is really great and fun, and the kids love it. But then there’s sometimes a bit of distraction around the mermaid story.

Pat: Right.

Kate: That’s not really business-related, but do you have any insights?

Pat: Yeah, no, that’s so funny because I speak at my kids’ school too. One day, I wore a Pokémon shirt, which was a huge mistake because that Q and A, they were like, “What’s your favorite Pokémon?” And the second question was, “What’s your second favorite Pokémon?” And I’m like, “I only know so many Pokémon. This isn’t going to go very well.” But yeah, I mean, with that one, it’s totally understandable because once one kid opens up that can of worms, then everybody goes down that route.

Kate: Yeah.

Pat: Yeah. Maybe it’s just a message upfront to say, “Hey, I’m here to help talk about this stuff, and I know you might have a lot of questions about being a mermaid and all those kinds of things, and right now, I’d love to teach you, but I can’t teach you those things because I’m so worried about the ocean. Maybe one day I could come back and tell you more, but right now, I just want to talk to you about the pollution in the ocean.” I don’t know, it’s sometimes a message upfront can . . . When kids are really listening upfront, that’s the right time to tell them the rules kind of in a special way.

Kate: Okay, that helps.

Pat: Yeah, I’m not quite sure. But that is an interesting sort of problem for speaking with kids, for sure.

Kate: I think that’s great though. It’s just kind of like bringing it back to the problem, like “I’m so panicked. It really is my mission to reduce the pollution. Once I accomplish that goal, I would love to talk to you about all of the magic of being a mermaid,” and kind of keep that mysticism alive.

Pat: Yeah.

Kate: Okay. And then my second question is do I ask for compensation from schools? How does that conversation go, or how do I pitch to schools, or what is that like?

Pat: Yeah. In terms of compensation, obviously it would be, first of all, it’s great to just get in front of people to chat with them, and that in and of itself would be compensation too. That’s obvious and I can tell that’s really important to you. But beyond that, especially if you have a book, for example, that’s a great way for . . . Perhaps asking if they could buy a book for all the teachers so that they can start to implement some of your teachings into their curriculum, I could imagine, especially with some of the recipes and stuff. How amazing would that be for the teachers to take on some of the DIY-type stuff and then they teach it with their kids? And just a call to action to share this in their community and those kinds of things.

I think for schools in particular, that would be the extent of it versus getting paid. Although, I do know schools have budgets for these things as well, so that’s not out of the question. You could potentially test what that might be, or ask a principal, who I know, is the decision maker often. Either that or somebody who’s the top of the PTA board or what have you. Ask them what their usual compensation is, and see what they have to say because it’s probably going to be different for different schools too.

Kate: Okay. Yep, that makes sense.

Pat: But you’re doing all the right things, Kate. I’m excited because the path that I see in front of you’s going to be really great with all the pieces that you’re putting into play. What you’re doing and already taking action on was in perfect alignment with how I usually recommend entrepreneurs share their message and spread word. So I’m in full support, Kate. Whatever I can do to help. Let me know when the book comes out. I’d love to share it. I’ll make sure to do what I can to drive people to But just thank you for what you do, first of all.

Kate: Thank you for what you do! You inspire me greatly. All of these little things that I’m working on are things I’ve learned from you, so thank you.

Pat: Yeah no, you’re welcome. I’d love to see if we can connect with you after the book launch, and talk about how it went, and what new doors opened up. We could dive into it a little more.

Kate: Do you mind if I ask one more question?

Pat: No, not at all.

Kate: Since I have my online course, which I’m getting help with, especially around pricing. It’s seven hundred fifty dollars for the four-week course, and then I’m putting it on sale for three hundred fifty dollars, and then five hundred dollars, and then full-price, seven hundred fifty dollars, do you have any recommendations for some lower price point things that I could offer for my online customers?

Pat: Yeah. That’s a smart question because seven fifty or even five hundred is quite big. To go from zero to that is quite big. Obviously, the book will help because that will be a paid thing that people will be able to get access to, but that’s on the very low end, right? Fourteen to twenty-nine dollars, whatever it might be. There could be some things in the middle, and there’s lots of options. What I would recommend doing is writing just a list of all the potential things that you could offer, and see if you can pick one or combine a few into something that would make sense for something like a $197 or $199 product. That would be the range that you would want to go for, sort of middle tier. Then that allows you to do some fun things because then you can play around with different packages, you can combine two, or if you get one, you can get the other thing for a little bit cheaper. Once you have a customer, your best customers are your existing customers.

It’s really going to take a brainstorming session and it’s hard for me to answer that, perhaps, without another half-hour call that we could use to brainstorm those things. But some common things that people might include in there would be something like a group coaching sort of thing that could go on. I know that there are programs that have those higher end courses like you have, and they also offer, on top of that, a monthly call and Q and A with you. They get access to you, and that’s something they also sell separate at the lower price is the group calls, but they include that with the higher price point. That’s what I mean about the combo stuff.

I’m imagining that your knowledge of . . . I don’t know if you have even more recipes and other things. There could be a cookbook, if you will, of just all the things minus the course material, unless the course is actually the DIY, sort of do-it-yourself recipes and all that stuff. So again, it’s hard for me to pinpoint that. I would just take a good hour-long brainstorming session to write those things down and start to imagine okay, would this make sense as a mid-tier item?

Kate: Okay. Yeah, no. I can do that brainstorming myself.

Pat: Cool. Kate, you’re awesome. Thank you so much for what you do. One more time, where can people go to learn more from you?

Kate: Yeah, thanks, Pat. My website is and I am on all the social channels as PlasticFreeMermaid.

Pat: Love it. Thank you, Kate. Take care and best of luck to you.

Kate: Thanks so much, Pat! Have a great rest of your day.

Pat: All right, I hope you enjoyed that episode with Kate. Thank you so much Kate for coming on. I appreciate you and for everything that you’re doing to, in your special way, change the world. I’m all for it, for sure. Again,, and you can find her and her mermaid pictures and stuff @PlasticFreeMermaid on Instagram as well.

If you’d like to get coached just like I coached Kate today, all you have to do is go to and click on the little button in the center of that page, which is an application button, so that you can fill out some info. I get to know a little bit more about you. I can’t pick everybody, but I definitely won’t pick you unless you apply. Make sure you do that there. You can also check out the other episodes in the archive too.

Please subscribe to the show if you haven’t already because we have a lot of great coaching calls coming your way. And finally, I don’t know if you heard, but I have a new book coming out in about a month. It’s called Superfans. If you go to, you can pre-order that before August 13th, and if you do, you get the audiobook for free. You listen to audio, obviously, or else you wouldn’t be here. If you want to listen to that book for free, you can get the book over at Thank you all for the support. I appreciate you. And hey, I’ll see you in the next episode. Cheers and Team Flynn for the win.

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