Niche Site Duel: One Year Later (Earnings and Traffic Update)

A lot of you have been asking me for a Niche Site Duel update and I’m happy to share my latest report with you today – exactly one year after posting my very first announcement about the challenge.

One year after deciding to build a niche site from scratch, I now own the #1 ranked security guard training website in Google which has earned well over $5,000.00 since earning its first dollar in March. I have also been approached by several investors who were interested in purchasing the site from me for upwards of $25,000, which I declined.

On the first of this month (August, 2011), I went live with a brand new design, which I outlined here in my July Income Report. The design looks much more professional, but nobody was quite sure what would happen to my rankings, traffic and earnings.

I now have 2 weeks of solid data since the update to share with you.

Note: I try not to link directly to my niche site from SPI. If you’d like to visit, you can check it out at

Rankings and Traffic

I’m glad to say that none of the related keywords I’ve been paying attention to have dropped in search engine rankings.

Actually, according to the Scroogle Scraper (which is a search engine used to search through Google anonymously without any record of previous searches, which can skew the rankings that you see), many of the more highly trafficked keywords that I’ve been paying attention to have risen.

keyword – ranking:

  • Security Guard Training – 1
  • Armed Security Guard Training – 1
  • Security Officer Training – 1
  • Security Guard Classes – 1
  • Security Guard Job Description – 2
  • Security Guard Equipment – 2
  • How to Become a Security Guard – 7
  • Guard Card – 23

Guard Card is a highly competitive keyword that I’ve recently started putting an effort into ranking for using THE Backlinking Strategy that Works, and I’ve already seen some major progress. A month ago I wasn’t even on the radar, and now I’m at 23.

If I can break the top 3 this will result in a huge increase in (highly targeted) traffic, and there are a lot of online courses with affiliate programs specifically for obtaining a guard card, which is a California specific security guard requirement.

Of course, I’ll keep you posted on my progress.

This may be a coincidence, but ever since the design update I’ve noticed a brand new keyword that has been driving new traffic to the site:

Security Guard

Yep – plain ol’ “security guard”.

It has about 14 times as many monthly global searches than my primary keyword, security guard training, and although the traffic is less targeted for what my website is about (i.e., people may be searching for security guard companies to hire instead of training information), it may present an opportunity to expand what my website includes in the future.

I’m currently ranking #6 for security guard and it is a top 10 keyword for the site:


With an Alexa ranking of 39,042, traffic to the niche site is at an all time high, even after the design update.

  • Since the update (August 1 to August 15), the site averages 601 unique visitors per day.
  • Before the update (July 15 to July 31), the site averaged 554 unique visitors per day.

As far as engagement, the numbers are virtually the same – which is a win. With a more professional looking site, sometimes looks can be deceiving and changes like this can dramatically decrease the number of pages people view (because of navigation changes), the time people spend on the site, bounce rate, etc – but luckily none of that has changed at all.

The Email List

One of the major changes in the new update was a more prominent email opt-in form, which included a free eBook (Top 10 Security Guard Interview Tips) to entice people to subscribe.

Before I share the numbers, I just wanted to thank Danielle McGaw, a freelance writer and SPI reader who was kind enough to ghostwrite this eBook for me. She did a fantastic job and even went the extra mile to call security guard companies for me to get some real quotes to put into the book.

I polished it with my own voice in the end, but she did most of the work and I’ve had a few subscribers email me thanking me for the guide. It is actually very helpful, as anything that we publish online should be.

If you need someone to write for you, I highly recommend Danielle. Here is a sample piece of her writing.

SGTHQ Subscribership UpdateFrom 2 per week, to about 8 per day, I’d say that’s a great conversion change. I have a total of 265 people on the list so far.

As to what I’ll be doing with that list, I’m not quite sure yet. There are some potential CPA offers I could push, and possibly some affiliate products in the future, but for now I’m just sticking with collecting the email addresses and providing a little bit of content until I figure it out.


Earnings after the design update are on a record pace. Like I said, I was worried that the earnings would decrease, maybe because of a lower click-through rate (CTR) or lower cost per click (CPC), but things have continued to grow as if I didn’t make any design change at all.

One thing I did notice is that the horizontal ads that span across the top have a lower CTR than before, but the CTR of the rectangular ad in the middle of the page is higher. The CPCs are about the same.

Here’s a screenshot of some of the ads that show up on Security Guard Training HQ after the redesign (August 1st to August 15th). Please note that per the terms and conditions of Google Adsense, I am not allowed to show you stats other than the estimated earnings:

SGTHQ Adsense Ads - After Design Update

Halfway through August, the site has earned a total of $682.28, which is more than half of the $1162.71 earned in July.


In Conclusion

I was a little worried about the design update, and even though nothing changed significantly, I consider that a big win. The design update was done to change the look, feel and usability of the site – not to immediately increase traffic and earnings – so I’m very happy with the results.

The growth in traffic and earnings may just be natural growth that would have happened anyways, but to put a new design to the site and see that grown continue is fantastic, because now I can be more comfortable with the product that I’m showing to the world, and it’ll help when I share the website with potential advertisers and buyers, if I want to go down that route.

Next, I would like to work harder on a generating a secondary form of income for the site to compliment the Adsense earnings – and as I experiment I’ll definitely keep you posted.

Thanks for the support, and I wish you all the best. Happy Monday!

Other Posts in The Niche Site Duel Series

  • Louis

    Awesome Pat, you did a great job with this niche site.
    The design looks really better now 😉
    I also want to thank you for your help when I asked you an advice for my own niche site.
    The content you created in the Niche site duel helped me a lot.
    Sorry for the english mistakes (I am french)
    Encore Merci 😉

    • Gregory C.

      I agree about the design, definitely gives the site a more “authoritative” feel to it, which will probably help build trust in the site.

      BTW, the Niche Site Duel updates are easily my favorite posts on this blog, people rant and rave about the income reports and the other posts here, but for me, it gets no better than the niche site updates, very in-depth and informative as usual.

      • Pat

        @Gregory – thanks man! I’m really glad to hear that. Much appreciated!

    • Pat

      No need to apologize Louis, your English is very good. Cheers, and all the best to you! Glad the niche site duel helped you out!

    • Jason Love

      I am sure a lot of people on here like me have followed along in Pat’s progress. I am in the midst of setting up a niche site. I am 6 weeks into a 8 week attempt to get a micro niche site up and making money.

      You can read more about it at:

      With all this great information everyone should be doing a niche site, just hopefully not all in the same niche.

      -Jason Love

  • Danielle McGaw

    Wow – has it really been a year already? Insane! And look how far you’ve come! You know, you should put all of your niche site duel posts into an ebook, add a little extra info – could be a nice giveaway.

    And thanks so much for the mention! Appreciate it so much! :)

    • Pat

      Yep – one year already, can you believe it? I can’t, lol.

      Are you offering to compile it all together 😉 Just kidding Danielle 😛

      • Danielle McGaw

        LOL – hmmm. You know, we might be able to work something out. Let me think about that. 😉

        • Brankica

          I knew Pat hired a pro but didn’t know it was you Danielle :) Of course, you writing a book would mean – no way it can fail. So proud to be your friend, lol!!! Especially now that you are way too famous and probably going to forget about all of us 😉

          Great work, both of you!

        • Danielle McGaw

          Aw – your such a sweetie Brankica. I wouldn’t say famous but thanks to Pat I’m going to have to make some changes in my business.

        • Pat

          Good changes, I hope!

        • Danielle McGaw

          Of course! :)

    • Gera

      Fantastic job Danielle also helping Pat to his extra success with the ebook!

      Btw I enjoyed a lot your article about how to boost the online reputation without using social networks.

      All the best,


      • Danielle McGaw

        Thanks Gera! I really enjoyed working on that blog post!

        And of course, enjoyed working on Pat’s ebook, as well! :)

  • Ryan@coveringtherent

    Great progress Pat just like i expected.

    Great design and fantastic uplift with your rankings especially. Other than the recent backlinking have you done much since you first ranked number 1 for security guard training?



    • Pat

      You mean as far as other niche sites? Definitely, I have a few more that are ranking high and earning money, although none quite as impressive as SGTHQ.

  • Jed

    Nice work Pat! I’m testing updating one of my sites as well and implementing an ebook via a squeeze page to see how that affects conversions. Always fun to test out new things!

    • Pat

      It’s so fun to see immediate results from these kinds of tests :) Good luck!

  • gadget guru

    Another grate update!

    The niche site duel is really inspiring – keep up the good work, and keep us updated 😉

  • Steve Roy

    This is truly impressive and gives me hope that it can be done. As you’ve shown, with hard work and persistence, passive income can be created.
    Thanks for this!

  • Sarah Russell

    Very cool, Pat – great to hear that you’re still pushing forward with this site. It sounds like you’ve really turned it into a great resource for the security guard community :)

    Any goals for the second year of the site’s life?

    • Pat

      That’s definitely a question I really have to sit down and think about. I would love to get it to 3 or 4k a month by the end of the year, hopefully more! I’ll get back to you on that one. Thanks for asking!

  • Alana

    Congrats on the site! I was inspired after your duel to create a niche site of my own. So far I am ranking on the second page of google for organic fashion blog. Not bad for only one month. Hopefully I can get up to your earnings soon. Thanks for the inspiration!

  • Financial Success for Young Adults

    It’s really good to see how well you are doing with the site! I am working on some niche sites of my own and working towards building traffic and backlinks. I read the entire duel posts in one sitting and you gave away some really great material.

  • Benjamin

    Hey Pat,

    I’ve got to say, great timing on you posting this! I’ve been working on my own niche site for two months now (alongside Chris Ducker, who I know is a good friend of yours, on VBL), and just today my site hit the front page of Google for my main keyphrase.

    It’s only at number ten currently, but as we know each step up the top-ten ladder brings with it a ridiculously larger amount of traffic. I’m about to top 50 visitors a day for the first time. Cool :)

    Congratulations on all your success with SGTHQ. It was reading these posts of yours that made me finally bite the bullet and create my own niche site in the first place! Your backlinking strategy (specifically focusing on UAW) is working beautifully so far.

    Great work man, I’ll be looking forward to the next update :)

    – Benjamin

  • Brent

    Hey Pat,
    Why did you take the video you’d made off of the front page of SGHQ with the new design?

  • Benny

    Glad to read that there was no huge drop in kw ranking. The site looks amazing to say the least!

  • LifeAndMyFinances

    Awesome! Every time I hear about your niche site, it gives me the motivation to work on mine. I can’t wait to develop some more passive income! :)

  • Nathan

    Hey Pat, thanks for the update. I’ve learned so much by reading about this duel. My question is, even though you don’t link directly to the site from SPI, do you think that with your huge audience here that it may have influenced the results? Is it possible to quantify that?

  • Chris R. Keller From

    That is crazy how much traffic you get to that site. You definitely know what you are doing when it comes to SEO.

    I like the new design. The map is a great feature.

    An idea might be to sell a report on who is the best security company to work for an why.

  • akil

    Fantastic results pat seriously, this site represent what is possible/achievable if you focus your mind to achieve a desired outcome. Will any of the guys who started the challenge with you update their results on your page also?

    I recently started the same niche adsense challenge following the same path and tweaking it a little with other strategies and tactic I have learned from following other bloggers.

    Its still early stage for me with my own challenge and I hope to average super results like you so that way I can show others it can be done if you have the right mentors, attitude and motivation to achieve your goals. Maybe you can stop by and offer some helpful advice and see if I am doing things right or wrong.

  • Manspaugh

    Pat…how the heck are you continuing to backlink like crazy AND do tons of stuff to the site? Is your VA doing all the backlinking for you?

    • Pat

      Yes, I have a VA doing backlinking for me now, which helps A LOT.

      • Vince

        Hi Pat,

        I hope you don’t mind me asking what tasks you give to your VA to do backlinking and how many hours she works per week do them?


  • Robert

    That’s great Pat! I’ve noticed that you are outsourcing more and more of your work, which must be difficult but a necessary time saver.

  • Tipjar

    Hey Pat,

    I see the nice site is still rockin just fine. Off-topic question, but where did you get this WordPress theme designed? I see it’s powered by the Thesis theme – but who did the coding for this site?

    Best of luck,

    • Pat

      No worried Tipjar. There are a bunch of designers that Thesis recommends that can design a site however you wish. This particular theme already looked this way, I just had one of their guys go in and create a thesis theme that looked exactly the same.

  • Ryan Lee

    Pat – I recently found your site and I am loving it. I am preparing to enter the online world as a complete beginner and your site has been a beacon of light to help guide me. Thanks for all your great content.

  • Will

    Pat, do you have plans to update your backlinking strategy in the near future? So far, the sites with poorly spun articles seem to have taken the biggest hits, but I think it won’t be very long before the algorithms are sophisticated enough to detect all spun articles.

    • Pat

      I don’t think the issue is the fact that sites have poorly spun articles – I think it’s because the content on the original site is poor to begin with. There are companies that release press releases every single day, using the EXACT same content syndicated over hundreds of thousands of sites, and they don’t get penalized. If it was true then I could create spun articles for my competitors that were bad and knock them out of the rankings that way.

      • Will

        “If it was true then I could create spun articles for my competitors that were bad and knock them out of the rankings that way.”

        That’s a valid point. Thanks, Pat!

  • Lonnie

    Awesome update Pat! One question, can you tell if a visitor who subscribes to your list leaves the site after completing that action? Are you potentially sacrificing that adsense click in the process of gaining a subscriber?

    Thanks again for all your awesome, actionable info!

  • Tom Ewer

    Awesome update Pat – I look forward to these as much as your monthly income reports. Your niche site duel was what gave me the inspiration to take the plunge into my online business just a few short months ago. I now have a near three month old niche site and that is down to you in no small part. SGTHQ really does provide me with inspiration as to what can be achieved.

  • Jeremiah


    Congrats on the positive results from your redesign. I never had any doubts that your site would keep on track. From what I’ve seen, you’ve done a great job.

    I love the style of your security guard training site (past and present). With my blog so far, I’ve only tried out the free wordpress themes and I think I’ve finally found one that I really like. It’s still in the very very early stages, so I figured jumping around with different themes and setups wouldn’t affect much.

    Your site has been a huge inspiration for what mine will be in the future. You also give us some great interviews, guides, and links to other blogs that we can learn a lot from. Right now, ThinkTraffic has been a huge focus of mine right after listening to your interview of Corbett Barr. You two seem to have a lot in common and I got A LOT out of the interview.

    Thanks again Pat for all your great content. You’re a great role model and teacher. Let’s just hope you never decide to retire haha. Later


  • Tom

    Thanks for the update Pat. It is amazing how little tweaks in your site can improve traffic and income. Keep up the great work! – Tom

  • Andrius

    That’s an impressive list of ranking keywords, Pat. Well done! At this stage in your process, are you still using Blog Blueprint or just UAW and anchor sites?

  • David DuBose

    Pat, I am impressed with your update. I am in the process of trying to monetize my niche blog now. I will report back here soon.

  • Tom

    Incredible work on this site. You put together a fantastic site and making great gains. Looking forward to your next step.

  • http://[email protected] The Financial Blogger

    That is very impressive!

    I have a quick question; how many hours your backlinking strategy has taken to build your site? did you outsource it or you did yourself?


    • Pat

      In This Post Here I mention that it took me about 60 hours total (not backlinking only, but everything total) to get to #1 in Google. As far as how many hours up until now, it’s hard to say.

      • The Financial Blogger

        thx for the reference.

        I guess you (your VA) continuously publish more articles through article directory to maintain your position?

  • Vince

    Hi Pat,

    The new design looks awesome. I can’t way to hear from you about the Adsense earning for the entire month of August.
    Great work and very inspiring example.


  • Josh Kohlbach

    An absolute testament to what you really can achieve in a short amount of time.

    To anyone that says you can’t make money off a website within a year, you should be reading back through these posts. It really is a great resource here Pat and it’s helped me immensely on my own experiments (I especially love using your backlinking strategy!)

    • Pat

      Thanks Josh! I appreciate the kind words! I’m glad to show that you can really make money online (again, by not talking about making money online) :)

  • David Tong

    That’s just awesome Pat, especially for us who followed the whole process! Congrats to your hardwork!

    I hope you don’t mind me asking here (and not in your Backlink that Works post), building backlink and traffic is pretty much my Achilles heel right now and I hope you (or any SPI member) can help out.

    1) Does Social Marker still work for you? I’ve read quite a bit that it no longer submits to bookmarking sites correctly.
    2) Do you still use Blog Blueprint?

    Thanks and again, here’s to your continued success!

    Dave Tong

    • Pat

      Hey David,

      1) I don’t do social bookmarking anymore. For a while I included it in my strategy, and it can still help (haven’t heard any news about Social Marker like you mentioned), but it’s not necessary.

      2) I do still use Blog Blueprint. I’m experimenting with other similar tools, but I haven’t used them enough to endorse them yet.

      3) If you go to and click on “publishers” at the bottom, then create an “instant job site”, you just drop in one line of script and it creates the page for you! :)

      • Dave Tong

        Thanks a lot Pat!!! 😀


  • David Tong

    Darn, missed the #3 part… Sorry.

    The last question wasn’t related to backlinks but how did you insert the job availability results into the blog? That looks AWESOME! How’s the conversion/hit rate of that particular page?

    Dave Tong

  • Richard Scott

    I love the new look. What a huge difference from the original gray one. Looks very clean and very professional. I also love how you set up the states and map. That is awesome! (who set that up?)

    As for the theme you use. Did you pay someone to alter a pre-made theme, or did you have the entire theme custom built for you? Is it running on Thesis? Do tell. 😉

    • Pat

      Hey Richard – good to hear from you! How have things been?

      The map was a flash map I purchased on, and I gave it to someone I hired on ODesk for cheap to put all the links in for me.

      The theme was actually made from scratch for me. One of my students from the niche site coaching course was kind enough to just design it and give it to me as a gift, which was super cool!

      • KimP

        Wow, I can’t believe it’s been a year since the challenge, Pat! Congratulations!

        It’s pretty cool that the buyout offers have climbed to $25,000, but you can get much more than that for your site! And I’m sure you have no plans to sell anytime soon.

        Also, the student who designed the new theme, are they open to doing design work for others? If so, how could I get in contact with them?

  • Arthur

    Hey Pat!
    I love seeing your SGTHQ updates as it is sort of a benchmark for my niche sites as well. I was surprised to see that you daily traffic was only 550-600! I remember looking at the SEOT in the past and seeing that it was over 1000? I’m currently getting 50-100 daily which is about 5-10 times less than what you’re getting, but your earnings are closer to 60-80 times higher. Perhaps its a difference between a good paying keyword? In either case, you’re still crushing it!

  • Jason

    Hey Pat,

    Not sure how I am just finding your Blog this last week since we both started out online around the same time. I though was serving in the Navy and I decided to get out at the time instead.

    I just had a quick question for you that doesnt really relate to this post but I was wondering what are you using for your dry erase board in your office? I saw you had this big board on the wall and I wanted to know where you got it. I really could use this to help jot down the ideas as the come to mind. Any information on this would be awesome.

    BTW great site! I have been reading it from front to back when I have the free time this last week. I love your writing style and how it flows very nicely. Look forward to future posts.


    • Pat

      You can get the white boards at home depot (4ft x 8ft) for 12 bucks. Thanks for stopping by Jason!

  • Paul Kim

    Hey Pat,

    I was wondering what you mean by Scroogle – “a search engine used to search through Google anonymously without any record of previous searches, which can skew the rankings that you see”

    Does manually searching for your site in your keyword Google search skew your rankings? Thank you. Great job on your website !

  • Felix @ Article Samurai Review

    Hi Pat,

    You really inspired me by your achievements related to niche website. I am also into it and I am still struggling how my niche site makes money.

    I run various niche website in various niche market. I promote products both from Amazon, Clickbank and Ejunkie but still I am still making nothing.

    Also I created review sites for product launches.

    Though my sites currently rank on the first page of Google I still don’t make a penny.

    Any suggestions?

    – Felix

  • Jason


    Google is now tracking what you are searching more and monitoring your activities online. So with that being said they now adjust search engine results based on your search habits.

    So when you are searching for a keyword or looking to check the rank of a keyword for your site or something you must use that site he mentioned or make sure to log out of everything Google related. I find that its when you are logged into your Google Account that its skews my results. Its easier to just use a site like the one he suggested so you dont always have to login or out each time you want to check rankings etc.

    Hope this helps,

  • Mike Greig

    Pat – Do you have any plans to actively grow your income from this site? It’s an incredibly professional design and there’s got to be tons of untapped potential there!

  • Virtual Sensei

    Keep an eye on the ctr for your adsense block. The highest paying ads are displayed in the ad block that appears first in the html…you want the highest paying ads in the highest ctr block. From google:

    The top-paying ads will be shown in the ad unit that appears first in your HTML code. To take advantage of this, you will need to understand which of your ad units has the highest clickthrough rate (CTR) by using custom channels. Then, you can easily change the code of your website to make sure that your top performing unit is the one with the highest-bidding ads.

    Found here:

  • Alex

    Excellent Info Virtual Sensei!

  • William Rose

    I had been waiting for a Niche Duel update! I absolutely love the whole series of posts, inspirational and interesting!

    Glad to see your site is doing SO well – that spike in traffic after your update is shocking. Very impressive, Pat!

  • Miggy

    Great update Pat. Great design and even greater earnings!! I’m so impressed I wanna replicate your strategy.

  • Andrew

    Hi Pat,

    Extremely impressed with the results and cheers for sharing the details with us.

    All the best


  • Ryan

    You are a great inspiration to a lot of people, Pat. Really appreciate what you are doing. Thanks. And your security hq theme looks nice.

    Speaking of niche sites, i wonder if you will let me give one piece of advice to your readers. I advise everyone not to use comment spamming for inflating their rankings! Is it possible to get top rankings using that? Yes. Would the adsense account be banned after you hit a good profit? DEFINITELY YES. So people who are depending on the adsense income for their full time income must remember to stay away from link spamming. There are plenty of other ways to gain links. Even if your content is top notch, if there are links all over the internet pointing to your web site, the account and even the site will be BANNED.

    Just my 2 cents. I have been with adsense for a few years now and deal with niche sites everyday. Hope someone changes their direction after reading my message here.

  • An Ly

    Hello Pat! Great to see you’re still going strong with such a bold change to your site. It takes real courage to change what works, knowing that you may end up doing worse. Then again, if the change did bomb out you’d gain knowledge from the experience.

    Any chance of seeing stats such as backlinks to your site? I would love to see how it correlates to the income you’re generating. Also, are you still SEO-ing this site for your older keyphrases (such as “security guard training”)?

  • Ruby

    Fantastic inspiration to those just starting up in niche sites. Two questions if you don’t mind. First – how much time do you spend on this site a week now? Second – do you find it easy to outsource through something like ODesk or do you have to be careful who you employ?

    I have thought of using writers from the Philippines but am worried about being swindled.

    I think those aiming to make a living from the web are very lucky indeed to be able to learn from people such as yourself in a world that is full of online scammers.

    Keep up the great work – we all SO appreciate it!

  • alan

    Pretty freaking fantastic. not rich by today’s standard….
    So Pat, all you do is Search Engine Marketing. What else do you do for marketing you niche site…

  • Carrie

    Pat, I really like what you have done with your format, particularly the adsense blocks. Some people try to over do it but yours blend it nicely without forcing it on people. Well done.

  • Kaj

    Hey Pat,

    Thanks for the update! Your achievements gave me a total different look on niche sites, its not about quantity but all about quality!

  • Brendon

    Thanks for paving a nice, clear path, Pat.

  • RobM

    Pat, I have followed this from the beginning, great work. Have you had any feedback from Tyrone Shum? This is a Niche Site Dual after all.

  • Ian – TheAffiliateJourney


    Great to see the “year in review” for this site. Just a thought for you, as this is something I’ve begun doing myself, potentially creating your own affiliate programs or lead gen arrangements for training schools/programs in the more popular states could be lucrative.

    You’re building the list now I’m sure there’s a way to take that and turn it into a lead gen tool. From my experience it doesn’t have to be about big #’s as you could get a half decent dollar for qualified warm leads.

    Would take some leg work, contacting potential partners, arranging agreements, but it’s a nice model that works well.

    Could net you $10 or $20 bucks per lead or more potentially and would be a good way to help reach the 3-4K a month goal for year end.

    You can use aweber as well with a bit of a tweak (think custom fields for state/city) to manage this.

    Anyways just a bug in your ear.



  • Richard Moloney

    Hi Pat

    You obviously are doing something right as your figures show. I am relatively new to IM and still learning. What you have shown me here is that changes can be beneficial without really trying.

    Some changes can also be detrimental you monitoring is essential.


  • Przemek

    Unbelievable.. What is your CTR?

  • Siegfried

    is there any tool to check your rank at google? or is it just “enter keywords into google and count” approach?

  • Trina

    I just want to say thanks Pat for all you do and congrats on your success. I took Pat Niche Site Coaching course a few months back and started 3 new sites and they are now ranked #2,#2,and #3 with PR’s of 2,1,and ,1. What Pat teaches really does work.

    • Pat

      Thank you Trina! Congrats on all of your success so far, and I can’t wait until you get to #1 for all three, and then start another round of niche sites to add to your portfolio :)

  • Nate @ Strayblogger

    The part that sticks out to me is how much you’ve been offered for the site. If you were to build 3 of these niche sites a month and spend one hour a day on each one like you said you have, when they start hitting the point of making $500, or $1,000 each month- that’s a very solid income whether you keep them or sell them for $10k-$20k each.

    Are you still actively building new niche sites?

  • Rich Kent

    Wow – very impressive results Pat – congrats! Thanks for sharing all of the info in detail as you always do. I don’t currently run any adsense sites, but based on your results I’m considering trying a few.

    A couple questions – How much have you spent total on outsourcing? Also, any idea how much time you spend working on the site yourself every month?


  • Brett

    I’m interested in secondary earnings. I replaced some of my AdSense blocks with CPA ads and I’m sure AdSense income actually rose. Maybe 2 blocks means I get better paying ads. Plus I’m also getting some CPA action.

    Do you integrate your eBook sales in Analytics? I’ve just changed my product lines to use e-Junkie and I’m impressed that aside from CB it’s the only shopping cart that I’ve managed to get to work with Analytics (shame on you RegNow and Avangate!).

  • Josh Wikoff

    You said in your post that the Security Guard Training HQ made its first dollar in March. Did it take 6-7 months to see profitability or were you taking in AdSense before then? It looks like it only took you about 2-3 months to get listed as #1 in Google. Thanks for all the help you offer. I love the SPI page which has been a wealth of useful information for working towards supplemental income!
    Josh Wikoff

    • Pat

      Yeah actually, you’re right – it took much less time than that. I forgot I didn’t setup custom channels until March, which is what I was looking at in Adsense, but I had started earning before the end of the year, around early October, which was about 2-3 months.

      My mistake, and thanks for bringing my attention to that.

  • Timothy

    I know its freakin dumb…but what is the font the you use for the headlines?
    its kinda default
    but i cant figureout which is it

  • Harlan Yee

    Pat, it’s incredible what you’ve done with this site! Also thanks for challenging us to join the Niche Site Duel with you. I knew nothing about internet marketing or SEO before the challenge but because of my participation in the duel, I now have a niche site that has broken $100/month for the last 3 months in a row and growing. It’s a fraction of what you’re making but I’m looking into other monetization methods to help bring the numbers up. I said in the beginning that this was the “perfect kick-start” and it certainly has been the best learning experience I’ve had so far. Just doing it (with a lot of help from you) and getting my feet wet was the best thing I ever did!

    • Timothy

      Wait man
      so how much time fif it take you to start making money?
      I am so inspired right now
      Pat’s SPI blog inspired the crap out of me
      i will have passive income thanks to Pat!

      • Harlan Yee

        Timothy, I launched my site on Oct 5, 2010. There was about 4 months time right after that where I didn’t do much to the site because I wasn’t inspired. I almost thought it wasn’t worth it. But after seeing some dollars rolling in, I got over the hump and somehow, I now have a drive to grow this business. Made my first commissions in March 2011. They were low amounts.

        At this time, I’m just covering my expenses. But one of the biggest things I had to overcome was investing time and some small amounts money. I added an opt-in form on July 15. Today, exactly one month later, I have 38 email subscribers.

        It’s great that you’re inspired! Pat definitely has some great information for us all! If anything, you should just start and get your hands dirty. It’s the best way to learn!

        • Timothy

          Nice man
          I’m trying to write my first article right now

  • Daniel

    Great article and thanks for sharing
    What I find interesting is that your main keyword, security guard training has 9900 global and 4400 local searches per month and you get 8300 visitors from that keyword. That is some SERP conversion rate! About 85%! And you have quite a few hq visitors as well which lead me to believe that a big portion comes from this site. What do you think? Maybe that $25,000 is a pretty good offer after all…

    • Pat

      Actually, I’m seeing 49,500 global monthly searches.

      Even so, my main keyword only generates 42% of my traffic. 58% comes from a combined 5000+ different keywords, mostly long tail. There is so much more potential with this site, 25k is definitely not a good enough offer, especially since this is 99% passive, and in a growing industry.

  • Daniel

    Not trying to nitpick but I think there is something of with the math in your example on the 14 times multiplier.
    Security Guard training (9,900)
    Security guard (18,100) + security guards (6,600)

  • Daniel

    OK i guess you are using broadmatch then which I thought you weren’t from what I could see in your videos

  • Daniel

    OK. Makes sense then. But you do have a crazy high SERP conversion rate.
    Don’t want to come off all negative so I end it with thanks for great blog and GL

    • Pat

      I’m not sure, but I think I may have a #1 & #2 spot in Google for security guard training.

      Didn’t come across as negative at all – thanks man. I appreciate the insight and questions for clarification.

  • Gera

    Hi Pat,

    I want to congratulate you for your success and how you share your experience along with the process.

    I don’t remember till now, someone like you which has established email marketing techniques in a small niche site (at least to start the optin form to collect the email addresses)
    You’ve lot of potential in your hands with the email list and can increase even more your income with it :)

    Cheers for you,


  • Ben Armstrong

    Hi Pat,

    Great work with your site. Reading the updates on it are one of my favorite parts of your blog. It’s awesome to see how everything works from the ground up.

    I notice Tyrone hasn’t given many updates on his progress which is disappointing.

  • Sparkle

    I am glad you updated the information. I like the look of your new site. I think it is great. I have been reading the post on your duel and find it very interesting. I am surprised but I can see how you are being offered money for your website. I hope I can duplicate your success.

  • Chetz Togom

    Thanks for the update Pat!

    I’m very inspired now to start my niche site too! :)

    Chetz Togom
    Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

  • Mike


    It’s been great watching your Niche Site Duel grow. I’ve found for me, building niche sites, is the best online training and way to make money. It’s a slower more gradual process vs. the potential rush of money a successful launch may bring. But it’s the reward of true passive income that I find appealing.

    I’d say the odds are higher on someone finding success with niche sites vs. other avenues. And, once the site is established you can branch out to affiliate marketing or other areas you’ve outlined here on Smart Passive Income.

    The last comment I’d like to make is that if you consider how much you’d have to have saved traditionally, in today’s capital markets (with the prevailing 0% rate environment) to make $500 or $1000 per month and you look at the simplicity (with hard work) that a niche site offers, it’s a great opportunity. I

    Thanks for the update and all the great info!

    Take Care,


  • karlo

    Hi Pat,

    Impressive rankings for your keywords. Are all the backlinking work done for this niche site purely using only the “THE Backlinking Strategy that Works”? Any other new strategies you’ve come up with?


  • simply paul

    I agree these posts are my favourite in finding tips with building my site.

  • Yayson Potter

    Awesome job Pat, I love the new design! I definitely don’t think an offer of $25k is a realistic offer for what you have here especially since now that you have it up and running it isn’t taking up too much time to keep updated. Glad to see that you chose to keep your site and not just take the money. Plus it’s great inspiration to see how successful this site has become in a year.

  • Mike Moyer

    I really appreciate how well you put together these posts. Everyone says not to worry about the look of your sites until they are generating traffic, but there is always a doubt in my mind that a theme change will screw with your rankings.

    Nice to see this isn’t the case all of the time.

  • David

    Hey Pat,

    Can you please give us the URL’s to the other niche sites you have currently in progress? You website is very inspiring! Thanks so much!!

    BTW, I registered for Bluehost, bought thesis theme, and bought Market Samurai, all through your affiliate links!! Expect a good month!! :)

    • Pat

      Thanks David – I appreciate you going through my affiliate links. That means a lot!

      I would reveal the other niche sites, but I think I’ve revealed plenty with SGTHQ, and I’d like to keep some for myself out of the public eye. I hope you understand, thanks!

  • Alicia

    This is great Pat. Look like you picked a good niche and the site must be helping a lot of people since you had the opportunity of a 25K offer. Did you anticipate that this niche was going to be a success like it is?

  • deepak

    Great post.. thanks for sharing.. your earnings and traffic are very good..
    i hope to replicate the same on my site someday :)

  • Zero Passive Income

    Really great work Pat! Your progress is inspiring!

  • JamestheJust

    Pat –

    Great new design. Of all the things you said, I took a lot from this sentence:

    “…but for now I’m just sticking with collecting the email addresses and providing a little bit of content until I figure it out.”

    Good to know that moving forward without having it all figured out is OK. :)

    That pretty much describes my email marketing – and you said that the e-book provides good tips / is helpful, “like anything we provide online should be.”

    Well-said. Couldn’t agree more. The difference between us, though, is that I would’ve taken the $25k+ um…yesterday. 😀

  • Mike Lawrence

    Checking out the original Niche Site post inspired me to click the Blue Host link and start my own site on baseball training from the pros. Thanks pat.

    The Security Guard site has really come a long way Pat. Congrats!

  • Mareen

    Hi Pat,

    i really love your blog. I don´t know if you ever wrote about it, but i really would like to know how you track your niche site position in Google. I use Analytics and Webmastertool for the keywords, but maybe you have a good advice on other tools. Eypecially for a website which should rank in many different countries. Thanks!

  • Joe

    Pat or anyone else on the site. Any idea what Pat uses to manage his subscribers? Does it automatically give access or send an e-mail when people subscribe? Thanks!

    • Pat

      Hey Joe – I use Aweber (and that is an affiliate link!) to manage my email subscriptions. It automatically sends follow up emails immediately when people subscribe, and it even continues to do so for about a year with content I’ve already placed in queue for new subscribers. It also allows me to send mass emails to all of the subscribers as well. If you have any more questions, please let me know.

  • Gavin Edley

    Hey Pat,

    You’re doing amazing! Keep it up – love watching you take your ventures to the next level.


  • HC

    Although your target customer is based in the US, now ranks you #3 for Security Guard Training!

  • Ryan

    Hey Pat! It’s exciting to watch your sites grow. I bet it’s a combination of things: your new ebook, your new design, and of course, your quality content, which has people coming back for more! Great job and thanks for sharing.

  • Matt

    Is backlinking with UAW the only backlinking and seo that was done for this site?

    • Pat

      Hey Matt – at first, yes. Then, I experimented with a number of different strategies that other people were using, some that probably helped, some that didn’t. I had my VA do some blog commenting, for example, but I didn’t like how spammy it was so I stopped it.

    • Pat

      Nice video by the way 😉

  • Chris Trynkiewicz

    Hello Pat!

    Great news! I’m happy for you :)
    Why do you not link directly to SGHQ from SPI? Wouldn’t it only help the rankings?
    Quick tip for you: you don’t have to use Scroogle. Just go to privacy mode (in Chrome, it’s Ctrl+Shift+N) and it’s like you’ve never visited or logged in to any site, as the cookies are erased. It’s a lot faster. You can also use the privacy mode of a browser to log in to different accounts on the same website simultaneously (work great for Gmail if your wife wants to check it without logging you out).

    Best wishes,
    Chris Trynkiewicz of Poland

    • Pat

      Hi Chris – I don’t link to it because I don’t want SPI to skew the results. At least that is what the thought before the site got to #1 in Google. In other words, I want people to know that the reason it’s #1 is because of the strategies I used, not because SPI linked to it.

      Thanks for the Chrome tip :)

      • Chris Trynkiewicz

        That makes sense, thanks! :)

    • Su Yin

      Thanks Chris…nice (and simple) chrome trick, mate! Also easy to click the wrench and select ‘incognito mode’…I use that trick when I want to check two google accounts without having to sign out of one to get to the other. :-)

    • Ian Robinson

      Wow yeah! Thanks a lot for that incognito chrome tip. That is going to save me when my wife wants to check her mail quickly!

  • Ralph | HotHit Media

    Pat, aren’t you worried that this is going to outgrow the “niche status”?
    I mean, with that much traffic and results in the #1 position isn’t is becoming an authority site?

    • Pat

      Hey Ralph. Why wouldn’t I want it to grow into an authority site? That would mean even more traffic and authority – more stable rankings and ultimately more income. It would still be a website for a particular niche. I think growing into an authority site should be the goal of every niche site, if possible.

      • Ralph | HotHit Media

        Ah, fair enough :)
        Usually authority sites mean more work and a lot more competition.
        But I get that you are still in the niche area.

        Thanks for the comment :)

  • Stephan

    I’ve read all the articles how you’ve build this site, but I don’t see any ads on the site. How does it generate the adsense income?

    • Sean Davis

      There are text ads all over the site. Under the posts… at the beginning of the posts… a single line above all the content…. they’re all over the place. Pat did a great job with the color matching. The ads blend in well.

  • Jake

    I see that you built your security guard site using a blog, but can you share how you customized it? For example, how did you customized the artwork? Did you do that yourself? If you didn’t, how much did you pay to have it done? Thanks.

    • Kevin Craft

      Hi Jake,

      Unfortunately, I’m just now reading your comment so it may be too late, but my website teaches people exactly how to do what you’re asking. We offer a free 4 hour course that walks you through installing WordPress, customizing it, and managing it —

      I hope you find it helpful.

  • Kschui

    Hi, congratz on the great site.

    I have some questions about picking the right niche using market samurai. A little confuse really. I was searching for a keyword and the results seems terrible at first, the main keyword i was searching for have too 5mil in SEOC. However when i googled them, i realise the 2nd in rank have NO banklinks for the extension URL and only 8 banklinks for the website. Rank 3 was wikipedia, provided the 1st 3 rank have a good PR 5-6. However, 4-5 have low rank page and little to no back links too. What does this mean? Is this a good keyword to target?

  • Kschui

    Another question: example: I want to focus on online “game” or “game” strategy, where “game” could be anything. Both of them have a high volume search and good traffic but too much competition. Now I combine them to be come online “game” strategy and the traffic becomes low with little competition. Does this mean it is bad to have a online”game” domain?

  • Shams

    hello pat
    very nice tutorials you have here but there is that little thing ?
    the backlinking strategies is so frustrating
    i make several links but these links needs to be ranked high also to make effect as i suppose
    i created multiple blogs on wordpress and blogger and linked t my website however these links are not even recognised n google or markert samurai
    can you give me a hint about a fix for that ?

  • Bradley Chapple

    Pat… I have looked through your other posts to see if you have answered this questions already, but I haven’t found the answer…

    Would you mind sharing what plugin or script you used to create that click-able map of the United States? That feature is awesome!

  • Sean Davis

    I just read the entire niche site duel. Out-freakin-standing.

    • Tansey Louis

      I did the same. It definitely is!

    • Kevin Craft

      Agreed. Very very helpful.

  • Sheyi

    Pat, I just finish reading the whole articles and ‘course’ about this niche site and i am happy that i read them all. Now, I just bought a domain to target a niche (will be doing something like you have done here) and I hope it pays in the long run and if not i will be happy that i did something. I will like to know how much you got the customized theme done as I will like something like that as well.


  • rj cid

    Just sat here since friday night and read, viewed, and downloaded almost everything in the Niche Site Duel. Yeah, i am sharing with my gf and we are going to use this info to take her fashion niche to the most we can.

  • David


    I am about to go crazy…!!! I want to come up with my own niche site over here in Greece (a German speaking site) and I am trying to understand how you set up your site in regards to the design. I am not the crack with wordpress and I don’t intend to become one, I want to concentrate on the content (not at all security guard related, by the way, so no content copying going on here). My question: did you build that site all by yourself? If not, can you please share who created it so I can establish contact? Time is money, as they say, so I prefer to invest some money instead of my time, trying to figure out the technical stuff…

    Thanks in advance!

    • David

      By the way: I am referring to the design of your niche site.

    • Sheyi Shobayo

      David, he is now using a customized WP theme on that site. It was simply customized for him. Contact me at sheyi AT i can help you as regards


  • Resko

    Hi Pat,

    This is my first comment and I would like to thank you for this niche site tutorials.

    I had a small site about citronella bark collars and when Amazon discontinued affiliate program in Illinois I did, what most beginners do-trow the towel in and called it a day.

    However, some time later (after Google Panda Update) I noticed that site had a PR2 and many inner pages had a PR 1 and (at least) one of them had PR-2.

    Thanks to your tutorials I started to work on this site again (and it is on first page of Google for several words-low search volume but it is a start :-)

    Thank You.

  • Monty Campbell

    This site has absolutely awesome information. I’m thankful to see the progress and look forward to putting together a report of my own. Lord knows I have a story. I look forward to having the opportunity to tell it in due time and due season.

    Again, I think you did a great Job Pat and I applaud you transparency. Its a blessing to have this blog vehicle as a method to understand the process of succeeding in the blog industry.

  • Sal

    Thank you for sharing this information. You are a true inspiration.

  • Brad

    I’ve read the niche site duel multiple times now, and I think I learn something every time. One question I have is: What do you do when your niche site seems to be stuck in the ranks? What I mean is I’ve jumped from the 400+ rankings in Google to multiple keywords ranking in the 20-30 range. I’m using build my rank, and have written several articles, although not many recently, and using BMR. I just feel like I’m so close to the first page…. but not moving. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

  • Ifham khan

    Really uniue way of niche earning. The whole process is fun and at last the income

  • Tansey Louis

    Pat I read the entire niche site duel and it is an awesome guide for my niche site that am building. I appreciate your attention to detail and your transparency. Will you be giving us another niche site update anytime soon?

  • Craig


    Following the duel challenge has been a great inspiration. I now have the basics apply my drive to and make my ideas come to life. Thanks for the transparency.

  • Vinyl Banners

    I read a lot of blogs but this blog is really awesome and fulfill all my requirements…Very Good job Guys!

  • Lenia

    Nice job Pat. I keep reading your posts!
    Thank you because I learn many things here!

  • Sol

    Hey Pat, I want to congratulate you on the success you’ve gotten from your niche site and all your other online work. I’ve been following the Niche Site Duel and with no desrespect to Tyron, I have to say that I prefer the methods and strategies you’ve been using, I do believe your way of doing things it’s way better, and let me explain why. Even though I’ve been doing online marketing for a while and at this point in time I do outsource a lot of my work, because I’ve gotten to the point where I can actually afford it. I’m thinking about the complete newbie that more than likely don’t have the money to spare or the resources. This is probably the person that’s trying to make ends meet, I was in that situation at one point in my life. Tyron sounds like a very successful online marketer, however his methods involve spending quit a few pennies, and as I’ve come to find out, outsourcing can get you there faster and if you’ve got the cash to do this, by all means, do it. On the other hand doing everything yourself and along the way not having to spend all the extra money, will get you there also. Plus you get the benefit of learning exactly how things are done, so that when you actually start outsourcing things, you’ll know that everything it’s being done right. Thank you, and keep up the good work.

  • Jeff

    Hi Pat,

    The last update on your progress was August, 2011. Any chance that you’ll do another update or is the Niche Site Duel over?

    Thanks for all of the information you provided. It has been very educational to see how someone has gone through the process right from the start with all of the results presented along the way. Your integrity and honesty is very refreshing in an industry that gets a lot of knocks for people who focus solely on the money with little thought that the people spending that money are hard working people looking to them for value. You are an example that others should follow.

  • Ryan

    Hey Pat, I really enjoyed reading though your niche duel and have also recently started listening to your podcasts. All solid info you provide! Thanks!

    One question, who did you find to do the state map on your site? I have a project in mind that could use a similar graphic that links to the individual state pages.

    You can get back to me via email if you don’t want to post publicly.

  • Andrew

    Hey Pat,

    I was interested to see how your security guard site held up through the Google Panda/Penguin updates so I just did a search for “Security Guard” and found you at #3! Goes to show that the methods you’re teaching are sound.

    Thanks, as always, for the great info!

  • jeffrey

    Hi Pat,

    How’s the earning since then. Hope you can share.

  • Bas

    Read everything today about the niche site duel. Very good stuff, going to start my niche this week. Is there more information about SEO competition of market samurai? I found some keyword but aren’t really sure if the competition is beatable or not.

  • sameh

    Thank you for this amazing tutorial.

  • Steve Race

    I’m totally new to all of this, and I’ve read from start to finish of the Niche Duel, I have learnt more from this blog, than any other book, article, or video. I have had lots of Idols in the past, Dean Winchester from supernatural, Jean Claude Van Damme, Roy Jones Junior, the list is endless But hand on heart I can honestly say I think you are now my all time favorite Idol Lol thanks for everything you have taught and the extra time you have spent giving back to people to help. Your a true legend!!

  • Nabil Amjad

    Hi Pat!
    Just finished reading the entire Nichesite Duel content and wanted to say thank you for sharing.

    As a Web Design and SEO company owner I use a lot of software (paid and free), but after trying some of the software you recommend I’m sure I’ve lost a lot of time working with mine. I did purchase the Market Samurai true your affiliate link and I’m planning to get the UAW and some other stuff true your site and combine your techniques with what I already know to create some passive income.

    Cheers, and keep up the great work!

  • Rob

    This is great stuff Pat – thank you!
    I’m using NicheSiteDuel as a blue print to improve my dropship website and start a new one from scratch.

    By the way, have you ever investigated dropshipping as a form of passive income? I’d love to hear your insights and those of your guests.

    Keep up the awesome work.

  • Wayne Melton

    This is probably the best most comprehensive series on starting a website I have ever read.
    I was just a little concerned with the earnings numbers. Five grand for the year seems a little low for a number one ranked site? Not exactly quick internet riches?
    Better than nothing and far better than most sites but is it really what you expected. How does it compare to the others in your challenge.

    Wayne Melton

  • Jason Love

    A happy ending is always a great way to end a series.

    Thanks for sharing and as you already know, I love the site.

    -Jason Love

  • Cole

    Did you change you backlinking strategy? I read the entire journey and it talks about web 2.0 and article directory submission as the first tier, but when I check the backlink portfolio of the site, I see very little backlinks coming from these sources (ezinearticles, etc.). Could you clarify please?

  • Amar Ryder

    waooo great share, enjoy ur earning $$$ :)

  • Lucas

    Hi Pat

    How is the “Jobs” section being updated?

    Thanks in advance,


  • Mario Adrian Astudillo López

    Hello!, I have saved all the links and i’m going to go through them thoroughly in the morning thanks in advance! i’m going to make my first niche site and i know this will help me out tremendously. Also i got to this page by your podcasts man, great content love your stuff. :)

  • motivationsschreiben

    hi pat,

    i love the design of
    Whats the name of the design and where can i buy it?

    Thanks a lot for your good work.

  • Travis

    Hey the duel is interesting and fun to read. I was wondering however, in the year time how much money did you invest in this project? Not including domain, hosting and market samurai, but money needed for plugins, maybe purchasing images, or whatever cost this project incurred. As a newbie I would like to know how much reasonably I should invest in a niche website assuming I have a domain, hosting, and market samurai.

  • Ainhoa

    I have just finished reading ALL the posts, and i’m really motivated to start doing something. Thank you Pat! Your work is brilliant, and the information you are giving us (FREE) is awesome!!!

  • madhusmita

    EPG Security Group’s Hospitality Agents are groomed and trained specifically to the venues they are assigned. We take extra steps to ensure that our agents fully understand your client demographic and the inner workings of your venue. Our clients look at our agents as extensions of them. We actively look for areas of concern, even if it’s not security related.

  • Dani

    Hey there, I have been reading your blog posts and they are wonderful! I was wondering what plugin you used for the free ebook download? I am trying to find a free wordpress plugin for this but haven’t found anything attractive looking yet. Does anyone have any suggestions?

  • zaverio bachri

    thank you path

    its really inspire me.

    i hope i can copy your success in my site
    i wish i could update the develop of the site..

    btw, thank you for this priceless knowledge

  • juel rahman

    I read a lot of blogs but this blog is really awesome and I have got all my requirements…Very Good job Guys!

  • dave

    i hav build a niche site called
    let me know how it looks

    • Venkat Iyengar

      site looks cool but of course there’s no real content on it so work on that, I like the design

  • Albert einstien

    This blog
    has very distinct features. Thanks

    top home security systems

  • Glori Mason

    Your article is very valuable and the information you
    give us is very good Thanks for review, it was excellent and very informative.
    Thanks for sharing this is very helpful, checked out Security Guard Training

  • Glori Mason

    Security License Florida Company provide Security License services in Florida ensures our clients can focus on the task at hand. Invictus is Florida’s leading security license company.

  • Frank Abay

    Great post thanks man for motivate.

  • Wessel

    I really enjoyed reading the end of your niche story.
    I just started a niche which is Dutch, check it out if you want to.

  • Aaron Jack

    Hi Pat,

    Thanks for all this information. I’ve read the whole series through twice and the information has so much value that i cant work out why everyone isn’t doing it! I’ve just started my niche site at I’m focusing on getting some quality content on their first and then moving on to networking with people to create more content for the site. After that i’ll focus on my own backlinking strategy.

    Thanks again!